Upcoming Werewolf Changes

Elektrakosh

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Kissmeplz wrote: »

I have a WW and a Vamp, sorry to say but WW is perfect as it is, a cast timer to transform makes sense, no passives that effect human form also makes sense. Its an easy add to get seeming the trial scales to level and it takes all of maybe an hour or two to level your WW from 1 to 10. WW is a gift to impatient players, and a gift to those that need a effective tank/dps while in PVE. Even the time as a WW though maybe a little short is not a disadvantage, afteral it lasts about as long as other ultimates, plus if you know what your doing it can literally last for hours, yes I stayed in WW form for about 2 hours just by watching my timing and my kills it wasn't hard. Then of course you have time extenders from other players what more can you want, not to mention a self time extender (though maybe that could change? no cooldown maybe). WW is as I have said pretty awesome to have as an advantage. Oh and seriously don't cry that poison hurts till you play a Vampire where fire hurts all the time, while poison damage is rare by comparison.

Vamp on the other hand, the trial does not scale (sure you could do it at level 10 though very difficult, and with a fair amount of skill I guess). It on the other hand takes a long time to level from 1 to 10, though this does make sense as its passives and abilities are inherent to the human form mind you the passives while great seem a little lacking. Would like to see something like a "Charming Gaze" that works like a super powered Intimidate plus persuasion seems like a very vampirish ability. Vampires also have to deal with stages on I suppose decomposition, these stages are extremely short to the next level (you spend alot of time looking for food to keep them down to a level you like), while again understandable a lengthening of time would be nice with the option to extend Stage 1 by feeding on more victims would be great, oh and treating feeding like pick pockets in town (except maybe at a cost of an automatic bounty, some NPC's might be Vampire friendly and not attack you but still the auto bounty counts just not the additive of killing the NPC afterwards).

Overal PVP WW is possibly the advantage taker between the two which is kinda funny as its so easy to level up and power up compared to Vamp. No offence to PVP players as I know the skill of play in both are pretty equal but, if your looking for advantage in PVP by using WW or (even Vamp) then maybe you shouldn't PVP or at least learn to use these advantages properly.

I did vamp at level 10. Ez as pie

Did my vampire trial at level 8. Not very easy but if you kite as if the very legions of hell are after you, you can do it. Yes lowest is at lvl 38 BTW.

Back on topic: I have no other ww players with me so my main race is against time. I'm not a pack leader nor berserker just trying to level my transformation amongst other things.

CP5

Kissmeplz wrote: »

I have a WW and a Vamp, sorry to say but WW is perfect as it is, a cast timer to transform makes sense, no passives that effect human form also makes sense. Its an easy add to get seeming the trial scales to level and it takes all of maybe an hour or two to level your WW from 1 to 10. WW is a gift to impatient players, and a gift to those that need a effective tank/dps while in PVE. Even the time as a WW though maybe a little short is not a disadvantage, afteral it lasts about as long as other ultimates, plus if you know what your doing it can literally last for hours, yes I stayed in WW form for about 2 hours just by watching my timing and my kills it wasn't hard. Then of course you have time extenders from other players what more can you want, not to mention a self time extender (though maybe that could change? no cooldown maybe). WW is as I have said pretty awesome to have as an advantage. Oh and seriously don't cry that poison hurts till you play a Vampire where fire hurts all the time, while poison damage is rare by comparison.

Vamp on the other hand, the trial does not scale (sure you could do it at level 10 though very difficult, and with a fair amount of skill I guess). It on the other hand takes a long time to level from 1 to 10, though this does make sense as its passives and abilities are inherent to the human form mind you the passives while great seem a little lacking. Would like to see something like a "Charming Gaze" that works like a super powered Intimidate plus persuasion seems like a very vampirish ability. Vampires also have to deal with stages on I suppose decomposition, these stages are extremely short to the next level (you spend alot of time looking for food to keep them down to a level you like), while again understandable a lengthening of time would be nice with the option to extend Stage 1 by feeding on more victims would be great, oh and treating feeding like pick pockets in town (except maybe at a cost of an automatic bounty, some NPC's might be Vampire friendly and not attack you but still the auto bounty counts just not the additive of killing the NPC afterwards).

Overal PVP WW is possibly the advantage taker between the two which is kinda funny as its so easy to level up and power up compared to Vamp. No offence to PVP players as I know the skill of play in both are pretty equal but, if your looking for advantage in PVP by using WW or (even Vamp) then maybe you shouldn't PVP or at least learn to use these advantages properly.

What do you use the werewolf for? What do you see it used as?

PsychoKRATOS1

CP5 wrote: »

Kissmeplz wrote: »

I have a WW and a Vamp, sorry to say but WW is perfect as it is, a cast timer to transform makes sense, no passives that effect human form also makes sense. Its an easy add to get seeming the trial scales to level and it takes all of maybe an hour or two to level your WW from 1 to 10. WW is a gift to impatient players, and a gift to those that need a effective tank/dps while in PVE. Even the time as a WW though maybe a little short is not a disadvantage, afteral it lasts about as long as other ultimates, plus if you know what your doing it can literally last for hours, yes I stayed in WW form for about 2 hours just by watching my timing and my kills it wasn't hard. Then of course you have time extenders from other players what more can you want, not to mention a self time extender (though maybe that could change? no cooldown maybe). WW is as I have said pretty awesome to have as an advantage. Oh and seriously don't cry that poison hurts till you play a Vampire where fire hurts all the time, while poison damage is rare by comparison.

Vamp on the other hand, the trial does not scale (sure you could do it at level 10 though very difficult, and with a fair amount of skill I guess). It on the other hand takes a long time to level from 1 to 10, though this does make sense as its passives and abilities are inherent to the human form mind you the passives while great seem a little lacking. Would like to see something like a "Charming Gaze" that works like a super powered Intimidate plus persuasion seems like a very vampirish ability. Vampires also have to deal with stages on I suppose decomposition, these stages are extremely short to the next level (you spend alot of time looking for food to keep them down to a level you like), while again understandable a lengthening of time would be nice with the option to extend Stage 1 by feeding on more victims would be great, oh and treating feeding like pick pockets in town (except maybe at a cost of an automatic bounty, some NPC's might be Vampire friendly and not attack you but still the auto bounty counts just not the additive of killing the NPC afterwards).

Overal PVP WW is possibly the advantage taker between the two which is kinda funny as its so easy to level up and power up compared to Vamp. No offence to PVP players as I know the skill of play in both are pretty equal but, if your looking for advantage in PVP by using WW or (even Vamp) then maybe you shouldn't PVP or at least learn to use these advantages properly.

What do you use the werewolf for? What do you see it used as?

WW Mr tanker/DD
Vamp Mr Sneaky/DD

CP5

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Kissmeplz wrote: »

I have a WW and a Vamp, sorry to say but WW is perfect as it is, a cast timer to transform makes sense, no passives that effect human form also makes sense. Its an easy add to get seeming the trial scales to level and it takes all of maybe an hour or two to level your WW from 1 to 10. WW is a gift to impatient players, and a gift to those that need a effective tank/dps while in PVE. Even the time as a WW though maybe a little short is not a disadvantage, afteral it lasts about as long as other ultimates, plus if you know what your doing it can literally last for hours, yes I stayed in WW form for about 2 hours just by watching my timing and my kills it wasn't hard. Then of course you have time extenders from other players what more can you want, not to mention a self time extender (though maybe that could change? no cooldown maybe). WW is as I have said pretty awesome to have as an advantage. Oh and seriously don't cry that poison hurts till you play a Vampire where fire hurts all the time, while poison damage is rare by comparison.

Vamp on the other hand, the trial does not scale (sure you could do it at level 10 though very difficult, and with a fair amount of skill I guess). It on the other hand takes a long time to level from 1 to 10, though this does make sense as its passives and abilities are inherent to the human form mind you the passives while great seem a little lacking. Would like to see something like a "Charming Gaze" that works like a super powered Intimidate plus persuasion seems like a very vampirish ability. Vampires also have to deal with stages on I suppose decomposition, these stages are extremely short to the next level (you spend alot of time looking for food to keep them down to a level you like), while again understandable a lengthening of time would be nice with the option to extend Stage 1 by feeding on more victims would be great, oh and treating feeding like pick pockets in town (except maybe at a cost of an automatic bounty, some NPC's might be Vampire friendly and not attack you but still the auto bounty counts just not the additive of killing the NPC afterwards).

Overal PVP WW is possibly the advantage taker between the two which is kinda funny as its so easy to level up and power up compared to Vamp. No offence to PVP players as I know the skill of play in both are pretty equal but, if your looking for advantage in PVP by using WW or (even Vamp) then maybe you shouldn't PVP or at least learn to use these advantages properly.

What do you use the werewolf for? What do you see it used as?

WW Mr tanker/DD
Vamp Mr Sneaky/DD

Yet I find it amusing that when you transform (if you do since most people just get ww for the stamina regen now) you end up making that much harder for yourself.

Equilibriator

to be fair, with duration skills maxed and if you chose pack leader as werewolf morph. you can pretty much maintain the duration whilst in combat, its just you will be doing a lot of early released heavy attacks..

Werewolf needs small adjustments to cost or something in my mind, if the knock down roar hit multiple then that would be a real improvement no doubt even if the effect on other targets was just damage.

CidxLucy

should of made it you only get so so sta reg when not a ww but when you use the skill to become one you get the full sta buff

B1GREDMONSTER

It's disappointing how almost everything is one sided the devs make a variety of skill and abilities but it's not always balanced

If you choose a vamp you feed once every 30 minutes for great always active buffs but the werewolf needs to feed every 20 seconds for temp buffs most people know that but no one seems to care because they will simply choose the strongest path people tend to be like it's not my problem that the werewolf is weaker than the vampire I chose the vampire because it's better

PsychoKRATOS1

The PTS? patch notes say both werewolf and vampire weakness are being reduced to 25% and the werewolf human form 15% stamina regeneration +15% is only in WW form.

PvMRenz

Giving the werewolf new things, and letting vampires outside, please the vampire needs to be rebalanced. Its to weak.

Elektrakosh

Pbbbt. I loved the werewolf for the transformation not because of the 15% stam regen.

All I can say is many "werewolves" don't like that you have to use transformation to get the 15% stam regen.

Kulvar

You don't have to "use" it, you just need to "slot" it. It's consistent with Vampire.
No free bonus! You want the bonus, you must take the whole package!

Elektrakosh

Kulvar wrote: »

You don't have to "use" it, you just need to "slot" it. It's consistent with Vampire.
No free bonus! You want the bonus, you must take the whole package!

Indeed, except vampires can use one ability slot while werewolves lose an ultimate slot.

Zaldan

Just a thought with what's happening on PTS, change WW transformation to an active skill instead of an ultimate with a cost of 80% (random number I came up with and unaffected by champion points) of your magicka and all WW skills based on stamina. This would still provide a limit to how often you can transform. Stamina regen bonus linked to having the transformation ability slotted more in line with Vampires. All this would allow WW to regain the use of ultimates (ultimates unusable in WW form)

Waylander

WW getting a 10k armour and spell resist buff in wolf form.

PsychoKRATOS1

Elektrakosh wrote: »

Kulvar wrote: »

You don't have to "use" it, you just need to "slot" it. It's consistent with Vampire.
No free bonus! You want the bonus, you must take the whole package!

Indeed, except vampires can use one ability slot while werewolves lose an ultimate slot.

So you see a (while transformed) unique, very powerful, extra ability bar as a negative?
The werewolf ult bar utility... then your main bar your primary... sorted.

Oh no I lose an ULT... well kinda the only price WW have to pay.
It goes back to... you lose an ult. Vampires lose the will to live in fire and have reduced health regeneration as stages increase and oh no... cheaper vamp abilities, yeah... The 1 ability you start with eventually mist form eventually bat swarm (that's been nerved from what I remember). WW are stronger by far.

To get to a strong werewolf takes 255 kills? At ant level. Vamp requires level 38+ to level with any efficiency.

I can deal with WWTF being an ULT happily, knowing that once I get the ult I can plaster my enemies guts across the ground more efficiently.

AtmaDarkwolf

I'm really disappointed with werewolf in-game. the BASE idea is even horrible.

First lets mention the bugs, that are 'not' part of what they intended. Too often I am 'shifted' back to human 2-3 seconds after transforming, either because sometimes attacking me, or i block/interrupt, etc.(IDK what the bug is, just know that only get 1 or 2 swings of time in and then I'm instantly a human again, no 'transformation' animation.)

2nd is the animation 'freezes' which lock me in whatever it is I was doing (Feeding/devouring, leaping, even basic attacks) and I am 'stuck' frozen(can move around - like I was sliding, but cannot jump, use skills, attack, etc, only way I know i can 'break' it is by 'harvesting' something, after I harvest it returns to normal, but eats time from my stupidly low / short transformation time)

and 3rd is related to the first, but more that I get 'stuck' inside walls, etc, after a leap. Usually the mob is too near to leap again, but I can fix this by leaping to a new/further away target.


Now the issues with werewolf as it is. The transformation timer is STUPID. I know that's harsh, but I just cannot believe that they have been hearing (Judging from the forum posts, the 'changes upcoming' and other feedback post dates) issues / comments about werewolves for MORE THAN A YEAR, and its still BROKE as hell. I mean the idea itself, WITHOUT bugs, its still flawed.

About the only thing they got right were the 'skills' (Not passives, nor how the transformation works, but the basic attack skills and how they apply is about right)

First off, it should be a toggle, with 'restrictions' - IE: when you transform into beast, you should have a required time u MUST stay as beast. (IE no shifting between forms so u can slap out spells, do dps, switch back to heal, etc, Once u go WW u STAY ww until the timer expires, but this does NOT mean u 'force' back to beast after the timer wears off)

Second thing, is the transformation should both heal you, AND remove any 'effects' on you (Temp effects, either positive or negative, sorry, no 'prebuffing' yourself before a shift to maximize your dps) and when u shift back to human, you should get a full heal.

Keep it as an ultimate, (IE have to have it slotted to use it) but remove (or DRASTICALLY) lower the cost (I've heard it was more before than it is now, well its STILL too much imo, EVEN if it was 'permanent' or a toggle)

Also, fix the damn animation when walking / running. Someone mentioned how it was done in skyrim. Take easy route, copy/paste that. Done deal.

When transformed, you should gain magic resist based on how many points you put into 'magika' stat. Gain physical resist based on how much stamina stat. Could also give mental based CC 'resist' and physical based CC 'resist' depending on what is placed in those 2 stats(Mental = magika and physical = stamina obviously) for simplistic sake, if the cc used cost magic to cast, allow it to be considered 'mental', and vice versa)

Another suggestion I've seen was 'sprinting costs no stamina' which IMO fits a werewolf PERFECTLY. Also, NO sneaking? REALLY? ww's are the ultimate hunters, they 'stalk' their prey and while bloodlust(IE: savagery) is a great part of werewolf lore, SO is stalking their prey, which is sneaking/stealth.

Its depressing that werewolves got a super shaft, seems like 'somebody' really, really, REALLY does not like them and went out of their way to make it more of a hassle than anything else, seems to me that anything about it that could be 'fun' was slapped around and beaten with a bat out of someone's personal hate toward what others want. (I guess this is possible, were the dev's twilight sparkle vampire fans? )

Anyways, judging from the 'age' of these threads, (when they started) and the fact that so many of the issues have stuck around for so long(bugs I have are 'old' bugs, like year + old bugs) I doubt much will be done, but just saying that SOMETIMES these things are negative to your game as a whole.

(Small note to devs about tiny changes attracting new blood, I boycotted ESO from the very first moment I found out you 'refused' to allow centered camera, and only joined recently when I learned u had added the ability to shift the camera. See how that ONE TINY LITTLE CHANGE can attract people? Fix werewolves and make them 'fun' and 'viable' - IE GET RID OF THIS silly 30second change BS, and you will please a great deal of your current members, and will attract many new ones.)

PsychoKRATOS1

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

I'm really disappointed with werewolf in-game. the BASE idea is even horrible.

First lets mention the bugs, that are 'not' part of what they intended. Too often I am 'shifted' back to human 2-3 seconds after transforming, either because sometimes attacking me, or i block/interrupt, etc.(IDK what the bug is, just know that only get 1 or 2 swings of time in and then I'm instantly a human again, no 'transformation' animation.)

2nd is the animation 'freezes' which lock me in whatever it is I was doing (Feeding/devouring, leaping, even basic attacks) and I am 'stuck' frozen(can move around - like I was sliding, but cannot jump, use skills, attack, etc, only way I know i can 'break' it is by 'harvesting' something, after I harvest it returns to normal, but eats time from my stupidly low / short transformation time)

and 3rd is related to the first, but more that I get 'stuck' inside walls, etc, after a leap. Usually the mob is too near to leap again, but I can fix this by leaping to a new/further away target.


Now the issues with werewolf as it is. The transformation timer is STUPID. I know that's harsh, but I just cannot believe that they have been hearing (Judging from the forum posts, the 'changes upcoming' and other feedback post dates) issues / comments about werewolves for MORE THAN A YEAR, and its still BROKE as hell. I mean the idea itself, WITHOUT bugs, its still flawed.

About the only thing they got right were the 'skills' (Not passives, nor how the transformation works, but the basic attack skills and how they apply is about right)

First off, it should be a toggle, with 'restrictions' - IE: when you transform into beast, you should have a required time u MUST stay as beast. (IE no shifting between forms so u can slap out spells, do dps, switch back to heal, etc, Once u go WW u STAY ww until the timer expires, but this does NOT mean u 'force' back to beast after the timer wears off)

Second thing, is the transformation should both heal you, AND remove any 'effects' on you (Temp effects, either positive or negative, sorry, no 'prebuffing' yourself before a shift to maximize your dps) and when u shift back to human, you should get a full heal.

Keep it as an ultimate, (IE have to have it slotted to use it) but remove (or DRASTICALLY) lower the cost (I've heard it was more before than it is now, well its STILL too much imo, EVEN if it was 'permanent' or a toggle)

Also, fix the damn animation when walking / running. Someone mentioned how it was done in skyrim. Take easy route, copy/paste that. Done deal.

When transformed, you should gain magic resist based on how many points you put into 'magika' stat. Gain physical resist based on how much stamina stat. Could also give mental based CC 'resist' and physical based CC 'resist' depending on what is placed in those 2 stats(Mental = magika and physical = stamina obviously) for simplistic sake, if the cc used cost magic to cast, allow it to be considered 'mental', and vice versa)

Another suggestion I've seen was 'sprinting costs no stamina' which IMO fits a werewolf PERFECTLY. Also, NO sneaking? REALLY? ww's are the ultimate hunters, they 'stalk' their prey and while bloodlust(IE: savagery) is a great part of werewolf lore, SO is stalking their prey, which is sneaking/stealth.

Its depressing that werewolves got a super shaft, seems like 'somebody' really, really, REALLY does not like them and went out of their way to make it more of a hassle than anything else, seems to me that anything about it that could be 'fun' was slapped around and beaten with a bat out of someone's personal hate toward what others want. (I guess this is possible, were the dev's twilight sparkle vampire fans? )

Anyways, judging from the 'age' of these threads, (when they started) and the fact that so many of the issues have stuck around for so long(bugs I have are 'old' bugs, like year + old bugs) I doubt much will be done, but just saying that SOMETIMES these things are negative to your game as a whole.

(Small note to devs about tiny changes attracting new blood, I boycotted ESO from the very first moment I found out you 'refused' to allow centered camera, and only joined recently when I learned u had added the ability to shift the camera. See how that ONE TINY LITTLE CHANGE can attract people? Fix werewolves and make them 'fun' and 'viable' - IE GET RID OF THIS silly 30second change BS, and you will please a great deal of your current members, and will attract many new ones.)

1 2 and your 3rd point were animation and bug problems, apparent in all aspects of the game from attack animations to getting stuck etc. They should fix this for everything. A known issue currently being worked on. Some aspects have been fixed for the pts at least.

So 30 seconds being an all powerful damage machine and being able to dish supreme hurt on multiple enemies fearing them then infecting them with your 9k damage dealing infectuous claws + stamina buffing heavy attacks that can stun your enemies (+fear + pounce, if they annoy you) isn't enough to sate you?

I don't understand why they said no sneaking, but being quiet doesn't suit their all out attack render with claws in game psyche.

"Twilight Vampire sparkle fans" ? Would make sense if vampires were on equal footing. The only good arguments are... vampires don't require a transformation.. and vampires don't "lose" an ability bar/second ult (see my above post). If people can't accumulate ultimate fast by now then they're a lost cause. Doesn't take long to get the ultimate even if it is a harshly high ult cost...

People who are werewolf think they should get a buff to an already powerful boon. And vampire players believe they should get a taste of their previously devastating prowess. Which is understandable granted that vampires have been nailed against the wall and repeatedly shaft nerfed, whereas werewolves with no immediate weakness have been improved.

See the scenario... level 10 normal player vs level 10 werewolf.. could be powerful... skyshards etc. Werewolf has an advantage, unless the other player has poison arrows with his/her bow. He's mincemeat. Poison is accessible by all players as an enchant although rarely found essence rune and I highly doubt the lv 10 has an FG ability with the appropriate passives.
Level 10 normal character vs level 10 vampire. ALL PLAYERS HAVE ACCESS TO FIRE. Firestaves, Fire abilities (DK/Templar) still weak except for the cc life drain ability. Vampire is at a sheer disadvantage.

I have played as both and fought "skilled" WW'S and "Skilled" vampires. I have yet to die against a vampire.
Vampires are supposed to be powerful undead... you only need to read world lore and ES lore to know this.

And also watch dracula: Dead and loving it.

-

Lord_Titan

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

PsychoKRATOS1

Lord_Titan wrote: »

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

Cheaper running
Cheaper ult
Slightly Cheaper abilities
As a WW I completed an entire dungeon in WW form... pouncing devouring a pack leader. Also lasted an entire seige as a WW. I don't disagree with people saying changes need to be made. I just disagree with the people who think WW needs it now and they're weak without the proposed changes, which they aren't.

Chrlynsch

My thoughts on PTS 2.1 Werewolf here

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/203253/the-imperial-city-werewolf-as-observed-by-caius-rockclaw?new=1

CP5

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lord_Titan wrote: »

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

Cheaper running
Cheaper ult
Slightly Cheaper abilities
As a WW I completed an entire dungeon in WW form... pouncing devouring a pack leader. Also lasted an entire seige as a WW. I don't disagree with people saying changes need to be made. I just disagree with the people who think WW needs it now and they're weak without the proposed changes, which they aren't.

My perspective is this, it is a 21 skill point ultimate that restricts me from using most everything else i've built for. I want to use it as something more than a short 'dps buff' and more as part of my character's build/play style. I think the werewolf is close to where it needs to be, but with so many direct counters and design flaws its often better to just pass the transformation for something else.

Mr_Elite

Good idea

PsychoKRATOS1

CP5 wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lord_Titan wrote: »

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

Cheaper running
Cheaper ult
Slightly Cheaper abilities
As a WW I completed an entire dungeon in WW form... pouncing devouring a pack leader. Also lasted an entire seige as a WW. I don't disagree with people saying changes need to be made. I just disagree with the people who think WW needs it now and they're weak without the proposed changes, which they aren't.

My perspective is this, it is a 21 skill point ultimate that restricts me from using most everything else i've built for. I want to use it as something more than a short 'dps buff' and more as part of my character's build/play style. I think the werewolf is close to where it needs to be, but with so many direct counters and design flaws its often better to just pass the transformation for something else.

True, but it still boils down to the whole. .. WW is powerful now.. any changes to it for the "better" would have it on the verge of being OP. even for the base 30 seconds you get.

CP5

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lord_Titan wrote: »

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

Cheaper running
Cheaper ult
Slightly Cheaper abilities
As a WW I completed an entire dungeon in WW form... pouncing devouring a pack leader. Also lasted an entire seige as a WW. I don't disagree with people saying changes need to be made. I just disagree with the people who think WW needs it now and they're weak without the proposed changes, which they aren't.

My perspective is this, it is a 21 skill point ultimate that restricts me from using most everything else i've built for. I want to use it as something more than a short 'dps buff' and more as part of my character's build/play style. I think the werewolf is close to where it needs to be, but with so many direct counters and design flaws its often better to just pass the transformation for something else.

True, but it still boils down to the whole. .. WW is powerful now.. any changes to it for the "better" would have it on the verge of being OP. even for the base 30 seconds you get.

That's not how I see it, with how many things you sacrifice in order to use the transformation. I feel werewolf should be proportionally powerful to a player, buffed in melee range to make up for the fact that they have nothing outside of that area in terms of defense or utility. As is the werewolves greatest strengths are easily matched by some builds, but the ww lacks utility and versatility greatly. I would suggest ZOS make ww as much of a toggle as possible (duration buff wise) and see how the community feels from there.

PsychoKRATOS1

CP5 wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lord_Titan wrote: »

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

Cheaper running
Cheaper ult
Slightly Cheaper abilities
As a WW I completed an entire dungeon in WW form... pouncing devouring a pack leader. Also lasted an entire seige as a WW. I don't disagree with people saying changes need to be made. I just disagree with the people who think WW needs it now and they're weak without the proposed changes, which they aren't.

My perspective is this, it is a 21 skill point ultimate that restricts me from using most everything else i've built for. I want to use it as something more than a short 'dps buff' and more as part of my character's build/play style. I think the werewolf is close to where it needs to be, but with so many direct counters and design flaws its often better to just pass the transformation for something else.

True, but it still boils down to the whole. .. WW is powerful now.. any changes to it for the "better" would have it on the verge of being OP. even for the base 30 seconds you get.

That's not how I see it, with how many things you sacrifice in order to use the transformation. I feel werewolf should be proportionally powerful to a player, buffed in melee range to make up for the fact that they have nothing outside of that area in terms of defense or utility. As is the werewolves greatest strengths are easily matched by some builds, but the ww lacks utility and versatility greatly. I would suggest ZOS make ww as much of a toggle as possible (duration buff wise) and see how the community feels from there.

Of course the community would love to have beast mode for longer with the ability to toggle.
You don't want to trivialise things more so than they already are. Too much of a good thing. 21 skill points isn't much compared to how many you can obtain, and 21 skill points for what is still essentially a very powerful weapon. Pros and cons to everything.

I agree it should be buffed slightly and have a lot of changes. An entire rework of both vamp and werewolf should happen, only just over a year old this game so it's obvious that there are still things they need to iron out and it takes time.
As it stands now I'm happy with where WW is at, I still use it often. (Doesn't mean I wouldn't welcome change or like to see some improvements)

I would however state, for game play sake, things such as sneaking should be implemented in WW Form, the transformation time should be longer, devour should freeze the timer while the animation plays or add the amount of time the animation takes to fully cast onto the players transform time afterwards(I've reverted to human form while devouring), the melee range should be longer with a better hit box. Detect life effect and a significantly cheaper/faster sprint and cheaper ult. For aesthetics, slightly bulkier WW too.

As for vampire:
I would increase the passive skill tree buffs on a vampire and have vampire passives (separate from skill passives) a level 10 player can get a lv 10 werewolf and can have, through the use of skyshards an almost fully upgraded werewolf (morphs come later) where as starting off as a low level vampire, you only have weaknesses. The passives are good, yes, at later levels, even the heath regeneration passive. (begs the question... why have a passive that reduces the negative effect when you can just reduce the negative effect and have a better passive in its place?) And maybe another ability. I heard they're making the DD vamp ability able to recast instead of OTU, that's a nice buff in itself.

I escorted my brother and two friends to all EP Zone skyshards with plenty soul gems at hand, save for coldharbour S'S, they got all WW skills with plenty SP to spare.

Their werewolves in cyrodiil non vet tore through players of similar and higher levels I watched my brother make a fool of four people who tried to ambush him in bruma. A level 10 + player shouldn't potentially be able to wield that kind of power. Baby with a boom stick.

As I keep saying I find werewolf a laughably powerful bonus. That's not to say I don't think it should be improved. But both vampires and werewolves have their inherent weaknesses, make them too powerful and cyrodiil will turn into underworld.

I'm not going go make some ass (half light) reference, underworld is a vastly superior werewolf vs vamp movie and not just about a woman torn between choosing a dead guy or a furry...

Did have the N n B word. But of course ****

defilade__ESO

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lord_Titan wrote: »

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

Cheaper running
Cheaper ult
Slightly Cheaper abilities
As a WW I completed an entire dungeon in WW form... pouncing devouring a pack leader. Also lasted an entire seige as a WW. I don't disagree with people saying changes need to be made. I just disagree with the people who think WW needs it now and they're weak without the proposed changes, which they aren't.

WW should not require an ultimate ability be slotted, period. Being a werewolf is an innate ability, it's not a skill, it's who we are. We cannot use ANY WW skills while in human form, so why do I need a WW skill on my human form or else I cannot remember how to transform???

I see the need to build up rage before we can transform, hence the ultimate on our bar to judge when we can. But it's beyond silly that I cannot transform into a WW if I'm using my sword, because my WW transformation only works when I have my bow out.

I see the ultimate slot fulfilling the need to have a visual indicator for our WW transformation pool, but requiring we have it slotted or else we cannot remember how to transform is silly. We could have some other indicator to replace the WW ultimate.

PsychoKRATOS1

defilade__ESO wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lord_Titan wrote: »

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

Cheaper running
Cheaper ult
Slightly Cheaper abilities
As a WW I completed an entire dungeon in WW form... pouncing devouring a pack leader. Also lasted an entire seige as a WW. I don't disagree with people saying changes need to be made. I just disagree with the people who think WW needs it now and they're weak without the proposed changes, which they aren't.

WW should not require an ultimate ability be slotted, period. Being a werewolf is an innate ability, it's not a skill, it's who we are. We cannot use ANY WW skills while in human form, so why do I need a WW skill on my human form or else I cannot remember how to transform???

I see the need to build up rage before we can transform, hence the ultimate on our bar to judge when we can. But it's beyond silly that I cannot transform into a WW if I'm using my sword, because my WW transformation only works when I have my bow out.

I see the ultimate slot fulfilling the need to have a visual indicator for our WW transformation pool, but requiring we have it slotted or else we cannot remember how to transform is silly. We could have some other indicator to replace the WW ultimate.

I'm gonna underline ... It takes less than a millisecond to change ability bars.
They could have a notification like a darkened but flashing stamina bar to indicate you can transform.
And in this case, yes, werewolf is a skill tree :P

However If you remove the ultimate ability for transformation you remove the werewolves only drawback. Let's face it, you still kick like a mule even with the various bugs, well I have and do in my experience when I'm using WW, serves you right if you get downed in 4 seconds for jumping into a crowd of players.

I concede, yes you are a werewolf it's an innate trait you possess, but what other ultimate ability lasts 30 seconds + allows you to exert carnage onto your enemies fear a bunch of players (3 max I think?) and have quite laughable attempts one on one against you just parried away, where people try and kill you, just to be overwhelmed by your superior strength?

No other
You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's obviously for balancing purposes.

CP5

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

defilade__ESO wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lord_Titan wrote: »

I don't think the main thing is the damage dealing but the time length itself, you have to think that probably a good amount of people wanting time length extension are people that just want to play as a werewolf like roleplayers or just want to be a beast running around killing people as a monster creating havoc and putting fear into those that can't fight off a werewolf. I also think that the running should cost less as a werewolf since we can't use a mount in werewolf form.

Cheaper running
Cheaper ult
Slightly Cheaper abilities
As a WW I completed an entire dungeon in WW form... pouncing devouring a pack leader. Also lasted an entire seige as a WW. I don't disagree with people saying changes need to be made. I just disagree with the people who think WW needs it now and they're weak without the proposed changes, which they aren't.

WW should not require an ultimate ability be slotted, period. Being a werewolf is an innate ability, it's not a skill, it's who we are. We cannot use ANY WW skills while in human form, so why do I need a WW skill on my human form or else I cannot remember how to transform???

I see the need to build up rage before we can transform, hence the ultimate on our bar to judge when we can. But it's beyond silly that I cannot transform into a WW if I'm using my sword, because my WW transformation only works when I have my bow out.

I see the ultimate slot fulfilling the need to have a visual indicator for our WW transformation pool, but requiring we have it slotted or else we cannot remember how to transform is silly. We could have some other indicator to replace the WW ultimate.

I'm gonna underline ... It takes less than a millisecond to change ability bars.
They could have a notification like a darkened but flashing stamina bar to indicate you can transform.
And in this case, yes, werewolf is a skill tree :P

However If you remove the ultimate ability for transformation you remove the werewolves only drawback. Let's face it, you still kick like a mule even with the various bugs, well I have and do in my experience when I'm using WW, serves you right if you get downed in 4 seconds for jumping into a crowd of players.

I concede, yes you are a werewolf it's an innate trait you possess, but what other ultimate ability lasts 30 seconds + allows you to exert carnage onto your enemies fear a bunch of players (3 max I think?) and have quite laughable attempts one on one against you just parried away, where people try and kill you, just to be overwhelmed by your superior strength?

No other
You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's obviously for balancing purposes.

To be fair, what other ultimate cost more than all others, stuns you twice, and denies you from using most everything else your character can do? Still agree that ww should take a slot for balance and gameplay, but just a perspective.

Iduyenn

World

Werewolf
Removed Stamina Regeneration from Lycanthropy; it now requires Werewolf Transformation to be slotted in your ability bar.
Vampire
Reduced the fire damage you receive to 25% from 40%.
Supernatural Recovery (passive): This passive now only works while any Vampire ability is slotted in your ability bar.
RIP Werewolf and Vamps…

Quoted from Delitia`s gaming.

This change will come with imperial city.

Make it worth it... to slot a useless ultimate zos...

CP5

Iduyenn wrote: »

World

Werewolf
Removed Stamina Regeneration from Lycanthropy; it now requires Werewolf Transformation to be slotted in your ability bar.
Vampire
Reduced the fire damage you receive to 25% from 40%.
Supernatural Recovery (passive): This passive now only works while any Vampire ability is slotted in your ability bar.
RIP Werewolf and Vamps…

Quoted from Delitia`s gaming.

This change will come with imperial city.

Make it worth it... to slot a useless ultimate zos...

So the vampires requiring a skill to get one of their passives to work and their weakness to fire being reduced = death to all vampires?