Upcoming Werewolf Changes

ryu40010b14_ESO

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

here is my suggestion. Increase the MAX duration of werewolf to 75 seconds, BUT.. have the duration when you transform directly linked to how much excess ultmiate you have when you do.

for example

400 ult (base) = 30 seconds
800 ult (2x base) = 60 seconds
1000 ult (maximum) = 75 seconds

cost reduction items for WW would only provide the duration for the amount of ult before the reduction, for example using the Salvation set at the lowest possible cost would only provide as if it was the base 400 cost.

here we would gain the choice to save ult for longer time vs a boss or using instantly and building time vs weaker mobs becomes viable.

in action you could transform at 400 and only have 30 seconds initially, but boost your duration to 75 seconds via devour. also against longer fights you could store up the ult beforehand to last the maximum 75 seconds from the start of the form.


this would balance out the duration by having directly proportional costs when transforming initially.

that is a vary good suggestion, and it makes sense

GoodOrc

@‌Hypertionb14_ESO
alredy was sugested (somewere above) that WW transform and those 30 (at that time50) sek will be half of timer and we could devouring to get timer full! Incrise of ultimate cost is one step back to WW playability!

Lykanus

The group ability in mind it would be still a problem when it starts with 30 secs you've got a problem on bossfights and group dungeons(or generally all pve grouping event) and pvp where you cant use devour. Either stop the timer while infight (hitting something in melee) or start with 90 seconds so you actually could use your time still half-way decent.

Shayu

GoodOrc wrote: »

Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate.

They rely did it... OMG we asked to give as more time, but they decresed it! Now its 30 sec in WW form! I ewen don't hawe time to kill welw mobs in upper clargorn! Simple dont hawe time!!!!!!!

Why? Why give as 5 skills that we coudnt use? We dont hawe time on it! OMG just better admit you dont know what to do with WW and delete them from this game! Any better meshes taunt those who believed you...

Don't say that, you know you don't want them to delete werewolf from the game, if you are upset, carry your complaints to the PTS thread and tell them what they have done wrong.

Shayu

If you want to make a difference, make yourself heard here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136571/pts-patch-notes-v1-5-1/p6

Be sure to tag @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ .

If we don't make our presence known, they will not think of the time nerf as a big deal and they will ignore it.

draeganb16_ESO

As I said in another topic about timer and pack leader :
"...A pack leader should be a PACK LEADER. They are here to lead the pack (of berzerks), to help them stay coordinated. By coordinated, I mean stay in werewolf form as long as the leader is nearby (and the fight also).
In the curent mechanic (1.5.1), you force packs to have at least 2 Pack leaders to sustain themself.

Why not giving the buff (Allies nearby add 4 to their Werewolf Timer whenever Ultimate is rewarded.) to the pack leader himself or make the timer stop as long as another werewolf is nearby the pack leader ? That would force Werewolf to remain as a pack if they want to be effective."

Sheaden

Just got off the PTS testing out the new werewolf stuff. It's a lot of fun however, werewolf doesn't last nearly long enough without a constant influx of corpses to devour and building 400 ultimate even with the passives is far too much as well. In PVP it won't be worth all the drawbacks from players running fighters guild passives/skills with such a lofty ultimate requirement (400) and nobody is going to use the salvation set( 5 pc. reduce cost of WW transform 33%) in pvp since it does not have impenetrable. Even when you transform in PVP you won't be able to stay in form long enough for it to be worthwhile.

Additionally, I was interrupted by mobs while trying to transform. I don't know if that was a bug or if that is intentional but it is pretty disheartening to build up 400 ultimate and have it not even work because you got hit by an arrow or kicked or whatever the heck happened.

I'm not planning on being a werewolf, none of my characters are currently a werewolf but I think it adds a lot of flavor to the game. From what I've tested there is going to be an initial influx of players running around in pvp trying out werewolf but very few I think will ultimately (pun intended) stick with it. Mainly because the negative effects which are with you on a constant aren't going to be worth the 30 seconds of "RAWR Ima Werewolf!" fun you might have after such a lengthy build up of Ultimate.

Just my 5 cents. I liked the new skills though, it gave you a good mix of abilities between dps, cc and sustain while you're in form and that's always critical as well. Whatever team put in the work on this did a great job. Let the players enjoy it.

Shayu

Would anybody like to do some PvP testing with me on the PTS?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136971/would-anyone-like-to-test-out-pvp-content-for-1-51#latest

Shayu

According to the live stream ZOS is doing, werewolves are slated to receive more damage buffs instead of a time increase in 1.52. How do you guys feel about this?

keto3000

Aren_Liore wrote: »

I'm sorry ZOS, but you're asking us to take 50% more damage from all incoming poison damage 24/7 (which any player anywhere can use in abundance) and only get a 30 sec "ultimate" that doesn't even compare with my usual outgoing DPS?

Not worth it.

I want to be a werewolf, I really do, but I'm not going to nerf myself just for the ability to turn into a two legged dog. Sorry.

first, bring that timer back up. second, lower the poison damage to maybe 35 or 40% and third, Increase attack speed for all attacks. OP? I don't think so, I'm spending a whole ULTIMATE slot on this. I should be a god for that little bit of time. IDK, maybe I'm wrong

Ok, I'll try to look at this from a different angle. Maybe ZOS wants all werewolves to work with each-other in a pack. I know there are a few passives that are boosted with other werewolves in your party, so maybe that's where they are trying to go with this? I don't have enough experience with the skill line or the people to test it with, but maybe some of you can offer those opinions.

I just want to see the day when we are in Cyrodiil and people are saying "Oh, crap, they have a werewolf." with it ripping through our forces and temporally dominating the battle field. Then again, I'd also love to see about 50 werewolves ripping a keep apart (and climbing over walls), but that's a far fetched dream at this point.

*******

I just added WW to one of my lower lvl DK alts, so not much experience with it, however, from all the posts I read, it seems logical to make WW work just like OVERLOAD which I think is an awesome concept. Maybe VAMPIRE should work like OVERLOAD, too?

Oronell

Shayu wrote: »

According to the live stream ZOS is doing, werewolves are slated to receive more damage buffs instead of a time increase in 1.52. How do you guys feel about this?

Werewolf is suffering from an identity crisis because its both an Ultimate and a Skill line.

I believe most players want a Werewolf "experience" which means focus should be placed on the Skill Line aspect i.e. more time in beast mode and passives that apply to human form. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If this were done the "Ultimate" aspect could simply express itself through teamwork with other werewolves i.e. pack running. Pack Leaders could drive this by providing a selection of buffs to no more than three Werewolves in a group, this would also mean that without a full group of Werewolves the buffs can't be applied. It could even be a symbiotic relationship i.e. three Berserkers apply an armor buff to the Pack Leader while the single pack leader provides a damage buff to the three Berserkers. This would encourage people to form packs and build relationships with other werewolves.

EDIT: Has anyone proposed a synergy ability for Pack Leaders? If a Pack Leader transforms first other Werewolves in human form can use synergy to go beast mode before they reach the Ultimate cost needed to transform. I'm a Berserker but would love to see this. This would work extremely well if the Ultimate cost was high and the transformation was based on a timer.

Enesse

Lycanthropy is part of what your character is, it should be treated as much more than just a skill. That means physical appearance(in humanoid form), watered down passives when not in wolf form, and for Hircine's sake it means running across the land in a pack. For more than 30 seconds. Being in wolf form longer (note: not more frequently, but longer durations) might be the #1 complaint we all had. And you shorten our time in our true forms? Just no.

Oronell

Oronell wrote: »

Shayu wrote: »

According to the live stream ZOS is doing, werewolves are slated to receive more damage buffs instead of a time increase in 1.52. How do you guys feel about this?

Werewolf is suffering from an identity crisis because its both an Ultimate and a Skill line.

I believe most players want a Werewolf "experience" which means focus should be placed on the Skill Line aspect i.e. more time in beast mode and passives that apply to human form. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If this were done the "Ultimate" aspect could simply express itself through teamwork with other werewolves i.e. pack running. Pack Leaders could drive this by providing a selection of buffs to no more than three Werewolves in a group, this would also mean that without a full group of Werewolves the buffs can't be applied. It could even be a symbiotic relationship i.e. three Berserkers apply an armor buff to the Pack Leader while the single pack leader provides a damage buff to the three Berserkers. This would encourage people to form packs and build relationships with other werewolves.

EDIT: Has anyone proposed a synergy ability for Pack Leaders? If a Pack Leader transforms first other Werewolves in human form can use synergy to go beast mode before they reach the Ultimate cost needed to transform. I'm a Berserker but would love to see this. This would work extremely well if the Ultimate cost was high and the transformation was based on a timer.

Not sure if this has been suggested but how about .12 seconds of transformation per unit of Ultimate (Max Ultimate gives you 120 seconds) with a much higher activation cost.

Focus on the experience (i.e. forget about damage buffs because its an Ultimate in name only) but keep all the new skills and perks you've added. Provide another passive in human form (stealth detection) and consider the above "Pack Ultimate" and "Pack Leader Synergy" suggestions.

No more identity crisis and BOOM, happy Werewolves imo.

ExiledKhallisi

Oronell wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

Shayu wrote: »

According to the live stream ZOS is doing, werewolves are slated to receive more damage buffs instead of a time increase in 1.52. How do you guys feel about this?

Werewolf is suffering from an identity crisis because its both an Ultimate and a Skill line.

I believe most players want a Werewolf "experience" which means focus should be placed on the Skill Line aspect i.e. more time in beast mode and passives that apply to human form. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If this were done the "Ultimate" aspect could simply express itself through teamwork with other werewolves i.e. pack running. Pack Leaders could drive this by providing a selection of buffs to no more than three Werewolves in a group, this would also mean that without a full group of Werewolves the buffs can't be applied. It could even be a symbiotic relationship i.e. three Berserkers apply an armor buff to the Pack Leader while the single pack leader provides a damage buff to the three Berserkers. This would encourage people to form packs and build relationships with other werewolves.

EDIT: Has anyone proposed a synergy ability for Pack Leaders? If a Pack Leader transforms first other Werewolves in human form can use synergy to go beast mode before they reach the Ultimate cost needed to transform. I'm a Berserker but would love to see this. This would work extremely well if the Ultimate cost was high and the transformation was based on a timer.

Not sure if this has been suggested but how about .12 seconds of transformation per unit of Ultimate (Max Ultimate gives you 120 seconds) with a much higher activation cost.

Focus on the experience (i.e. forget about damage buffs because its an Ultimate in name only) but keep all the new skills and perks you've added. Provide another passive in human form (stealth detection) and consider the above "Pack Ultimate" and "Pack Leader Synergy" suggestions.

No more identity crisis and BOOM, happy Werewolves imo.

Hmmm I like the stealth detection idea...it even makes sense

Hightened Senses: increases stealth detection by xx% and ability to see others werewolves and vampires.

Would a werewolf not have this?

ryu40010b14_ESO

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

Shayu wrote: »

According to the live stream ZOS is doing, werewolves are slated to receive more damage buffs instead of a time increase in 1.52. How do you guys feel about this?

Werewolf is suffering from an identity crisis because its both an Ultimate and a Skill line.

I believe most players want a Werewolf "experience" which means focus should be placed on the Skill Line aspect i.e. more time in beast mode and passives that apply to human form. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If this were done the "Ultimate" aspect could simply express itself through teamwork with other werewolves i.e. pack running. Pack Leaders could drive this by providing a selection of buffs to no more than three Werewolves in a group, this would also mean that without a full group of Werewolves the buffs can't be applied. It could even be a symbiotic relationship i.e. three Berserkers apply an armor buff to the Pack Leader while the single pack leader provides a damage buff to the three Berserkers. This would encourage people to form packs and build relationships with other werewolves.

EDIT: Has anyone proposed a synergy ability for Pack Leaders? If a Pack Leader transforms first other Werewolves in human form can use synergy to go beast mode before they reach the Ultimate cost needed to transform. I'm a Berserker but would love to see this. This would work extremely well if the Ultimate cost was high and the transformation was based on a timer.

Not sure if this has been suggested but how about .12 seconds of transformation per unit of Ultimate (Max Ultimate gives you 120 seconds) with a much higher activation cost.

Focus on the experience (i.e. forget about damage buffs because its an Ultimate in name only) but keep all the new skills and perks you've added. Provide another passive in human form (stealth detection) and consider the above "Pack Ultimate" and "Pack Leader Synergy" suggestions.

No more identity crisis and BOOM, happy Werewolves imo.

Hmmm I like the stealth detection idea...it even makes sense

Hightened Senses: increases stealth detection by xx% and ability to see others werewolves and vampires.

Would a werewolf not have this?

it does make for a compelling argument id love to be able to see Vamps and other WWs and also be able to get the drop on sneakers by smelling them and i still say WW needs to retain its ultimate gained while in WW form and have a scaled timer based on ultimate gained up to that point. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Edit: and this...... vary impressed by this. the Bow skills are quite something but the WW trumps it by almost 2 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJEE8doFTBA

ryu40010b14_ESO

what would be some good human passives?

I would like to see stealth detection, Health regeneration, and night vision.
and a blood lust meter would be awesome, as in if you have not killed something in a while you have diminishing stats and the loss of passives lol, it would just be fun and immersive.

thoughts?

ryu40010b14_ESO

After extensive testing ive come to an epiphany, 1 thing can make WW more viable and make many people happy.

Give WW one active ability as a human, "Raging Barrage" a stamina based ability that allows you to increase atk speed by 15-25% for 5-10 secs and each hit grants 5-10 ultimate.

it would allow you to effectively recharge your WW in PvP and PvE boss battles

i also think that Ultimate should be returned after combat but thats pretty much a global request ;P

also a new passive perhaps called "Gorge" that has 2 ranks, 1st rank would allow you to overcharge the timer by Devouring up to 45 sec and the 2nd rank up to 60 sec.

not sure if all this has been requested before but i felt it may help.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
[this is a re post from another thread]
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136628/werewolf-1-5-1-changes-review/p4

Rune_Relic

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

After extensive testing ive come to an epiphany, 1 thing can make WW more viable and make many people happy.

Give WW one active ability as a human, "Raging Barrage" a stamina based ability that allows you to increase atk speed by 15-25% for 5-10 secs and each hit grants 5-10 ultimate.

it would allow you to effectively recharge your WW in PvP and PvE boss battles

i also think that Ultimate should be returned after combat but thats pretty much a global request ;P

also a new passive perhaps called "Gorge" that has 2 ranks, 1st rank would allow you to overcharge the timer by Devouring up to 45 sec and the 2nd rank up to 60 sec.

not sure if all this has been requested before but i felt it may help.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
[this is a re post from another thread]
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136628/werewolf-1-5-1-changes-review/p4

Problem with that is assuming you are building ultimate purely for werewolf. So as long as the "raging barrage" ultimate is for werewolf and "werewolf only" thats fine. I dont see how zos can seperate ulitmate though.

ryu40010b14_ESO

True.... then perhaps if they morphed diseased claws (wich is wonky anyway lol) to recharge say 5 seconds of timer on use instead of heal or debuff healing, that would allow for prolonged fighting.

Milf_Hero

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

Shayu wrote: »

According to the live stream ZOS is doing, werewolves are slated to receive more damage buffs instead of a time increase in 1.52. How do you guys feel about this?

Werewolf is suffering from an identity crisis because its both an Ultimate and a Skill line.

I believe most players want a Werewolf "experience" which means focus should be placed on the Skill Line aspect i.e. more time in beast mode and passives that apply to human form. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If this were done the "Ultimate" aspect could simply express itself through teamwork with other werewolves i.e. pack running. Pack Leaders could drive this by providing a selection of buffs to no more than three Werewolves in a group, this would also mean that without a full group of Werewolves the buffs can't be applied. It could even be a symbiotic relationship i.e. three Berserkers apply an armor buff to the Pack Leader while the single pack leader provides a damage buff to the three Berserkers. This would encourage people to form packs and build relationships with other werewolves.

EDIT: Has anyone proposed a synergy ability for Pack Leaders? If a Pack Leader transforms first other Werewolves in human form can use synergy to go beast mode before they reach the Ultimate cost needed to transform. I'm a Berserker but would love to see this. This would work extremely well if the Ultimate cost was high and the transformation was based on a timer.

Not sure if this has been suggested but how about .12 seconds of transformation per unit of Ultimate (Max Ultimate gives you 120 seconds) with a much higher activation cost.

Focus on the experience (i.e. forget about damage buffs because its an Ultimate in name only) but keep all the new skills and perks you've added. Provide another passive in human form (stealth detection) and consider the above "Pack Ultimate" and "Pack Leader Synergy" suggestions.

No more identity crisis and BOOM, happy Werewolves imo.

Hmmm I like the stealth detection idea...it even makes sense

Hightened Senses: increases stealth detection by xx% and ability to see others werewolves and vampires.

Would a werewolf not have this?

it does make for a compelling argument id love to be able to see Vamps and other WWs and also be able to get the drop on sneakers by smelling them and i still say WW needs to retain its ultimate gained while in WW form and have a scaled timer based on ultimate gained up to that point. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Edit: and this...... vary impressed by this. the Bow skills are quite something but the WW trumps it by almost 2 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJEE8doFTBA

are you blind? it takes about the same amount of time for both the werewolf and the archer to kill the mammoth. which means as an ULTIMATE, which ZOS wants the ww to be, is weak. The werewolf should have killed the mammoth in 4 seconds. looking at the timer on the video and counting from when the first hit lands to when the animal turns yellow in death the acher killed it in 5 seconds. 00:16 to 00:21. For the www it took 00:42 to 00:47. Tell me. is the purpose of using a pure damage focused ultimate to kill things at the same rate of which you would use your basic abilities?

also that's with the werewolf propped up on the cane of fluffy buffs from his regular human form abilities. momentum and whatever that other ability was that he cast. lol.

ryu40010b14_ESO

@***_Hero i do apologize for the timer issue, but no need to be rude.
i was watching the video at work with crappy net and it was skippy so the Bow seemed to take longer on my count (used a stop watch). i usually dont use the youtube timer because its unreliable.
either way since 1.5.1 WW has boosted considerably and im impressed, and in 1.5.2 it gets another boost.

Milf_Hero

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

@***_Hero i do apologize for the timer issue, but no need to be rude.
i was watching the video at work with crappy net and it was skippy so the Bow seemed to take longer on my count (used a stop watch). i usually dont use the youtube timer because its unreliable.
either way since 1.5.1 WW has boosted considerably and im impressed, and in 1.5.2 it gets another boost.

im sry for my rudeness. The Werewolf is a sensitive topic for many of us. And I am very adamant about it. i'm not impressed about becoming on par with some random night blades bow damage against a single target, a mammoth btw. spent an hour typing this response. trying to not rage and go on a rant about the ww soo im gonna end it riiiiight here..

ryu40010b14_ESO

***_Hero wrote: »

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

@***_Hero i do apologize for the timer issue, but no need to be rude.
i was watching the video at work with crappy net and it was skippy so the Bow seemed to take longer on my count (used a stop watch). i usually dont use the youtube timer because its unreliable.
either way since 1.5.1 WW has boosted considerably and im impressed, and in 1.5.2 it gets another boost.

im sry for my rudeness. The Werewolf is a sensitive topic for many of us. And I am very adamant about it. i'm not impressed about becoming on par with some random night blades bow damage against a single target, a mammoth btw. spent an hour typing this response. trying to not rage and go on a rant about the ww soo im gonna end it riiiiight here..

honestly feel free bro, we are all in this together and since i for one have nowhere near all the answers lol, we need all the informative tie raids we can get to put the facts across, im always up to learn more and to see what it will take to truly balance and bring werewolf up to par.

jgc471980

tbh We dont need a Boost to the werewolf the new skills and the dps are fine we need more time in were wolf form period.

either 1 give us a toggle to turn on off when we wish (think most of us will be werewolf full time as this is the main reason we play the game) or give us 3 minutes added every time we devour

Rune_Relic

Meh surely you need to be in human form until a full moon.

Thejollygreenone

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

***_Hero wrote: »

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

@***_Hero i do apologize for the timer issue, but no need to be rude.
i was watching the video at work with crappy net and it was skippy so the Bow seemed to take longer on my count (used a stop watch). i usually dont use the youtube timer because its unreliable.
either way since 1.5.1 WW has boosted considerably and im impressed, and in 1.5.2 it gets another boost.

im sry for my rudeness. The Werewolf is a sensitive topic for many of us. And I am very adamant about it. i'm not impressed about becoming on par with some random night blades bow damage against a single target, a mammoth btw. spent an hour typing this response. trying to not rage and go on a rant about the ww soo im gonna end it riiiiight here..

honestly feel free bro, we are all in this together and since i for one have nowhere near all the answers lol, we need all the informative tie raids we can get to put the facts across, im always up to learn more and to see what it will take to truly balance and bring werewolf up to par.

And actually, that videos a little outdated (I'm the one who made it). Separate videos have been released showing werewolf with even higher dps than I was able to produce in the video.

And the time to kill shouldn't be what you guys are looking at to determine effectiveness, it's the DPS. There's a meter on the left hand side, I know the video-quality is not great so it's easy to miss.

Basically, the bow build was doing 1630~ dps, while the WW build was doing around 1210. The video was made to show that WW build was still weaker.

However as I said there was a rebuttal video produced matching my 1600dps bow build attempt, using a different rotation than I had tried in the video shown in this thread. And that 1600 dps was done without using potions, or the number of buffs I was using for my WW.

After that, I used the kind fellows technique to try it again, and was able to reproduce the 1600 easily, and on one really good attempt even broke 1900.

While this is in the context of burst damage, as @***_Hero rightfully pointed out, it's still information that can be used to reflect upon the sustained DPS in a real boss encounter imo, I say this since burst is inevitably a part of the overall sustained number, and can be used as a theoretical high point during any given fight.

So, in conclusion, my personal burst capability with WW (while remaining self buffed and with potion) exceeds my personal burst capability with Bow (while remaining with a potion buff since self buffs are implied), as well as the fact that it costs no stamina to upkeep, unlike the rotation I tried in the video shown in this thread.

Sorry for the Wall O' Text, guys, just wanted to chime in when I saw my video was being used and not being interpreted correctly due to lack of peripheral background knowledge. So there's your background knowledge

EDIT: Sidenote;

I compare Bow dps with WW dps because as of 1.5 Bow is going to (so far as we can tell) the highest pve-dps damage capability of the stamina builds due to snipe changes, at the expense of being much less stamina efficient than either melee options.
(which may cause it to have less dps in the long run, but the point is the capability of the numbers in this case as when testing on mammoths, burst is all you can test)

And I thought it was relevant to use a stamina build to compare to WW instead of a magicka build because if you're worried about your dps in WW form you should be in a stamina build anyway, it only seemed natural to me to compare a stamina build with a stamina build (bow with werewolf).
Although I'm sure there's some necessary information to be had when comparing WW dps to magicka builds, it's just that numbers for magicka based dps are tested for on a daily basis, and aren't changing much in 1.5, so there's no need to have someone test it over again if it's already out there.

Thejollygreenone

***_Hero wrote: »

[snip...]
Tell me. is the purpose of using a pure damage focused ultimate to kill things at the same rate of which you would use your basic abilities?
[snip...]

This has been a pretty common argument in this debate on other threads, and I think the answer is yes when you include some more detailed wording.

What I had in mind would be something like this:
"Tell me. Is the purpose of using a pure damage focused ultimate to kill things at the same rate of which you would use your basic abilities and a different pure damage focused utimate?"

And I would say yes. Since that's how it was compared in the video. The basic abilities in the video (otherwise can be identified as my personal human form abilities) including an ultimate, are all on that bar with pure damage as a focus.

Sorry for the back to back posting, I just got to this thread (as I thought all discussion had moved to the PTS forum) and there's so much I'd like to discuss.

Furthermore, side tangent incoming:

I would even debate that WW isn't necessarily a pure damage focused ultimate, there is a lot more to it than that. That's just how people would like to use it, and therefore are making comparisons for.

That makes total sense, but let's not call things what they aren't ^.^

For pvp, WW form is looking to be more durable and has more efficient CC's than either of my human form pvp bars, but that's mainly because I don't run staff/light armor/shield stacking.

So in many cases, WW can be used for more than simply damage, which ironically is the only reason the ultimate on my bow bar is slotted. I dont even cast it, it just sits there and increases my dps. (Flawless Dawnbreaker)

EDIT: I guess my point is I think there's a lot more valuable information to be had from these little experiments and videos than you give credit for.

Milf_Hero

Your right. Im sure we will see the ww be worked in to more and more builds. We will see ww's as much as we see tanks,dps,healers,and vampires. Because of how awesome the ww is becoming.

Thejollygreenone

***_Hero wrote: »

Your right. Im sure we will see the ww be worked in to more and more builds. We will see ww's as much as we see tanks,dps,healers,and vampires. Because of how awesome the ww is becoming.

Hyperbolic sarcasm, much appreciated. The best kind of sarcasm. (I can /sarcasm too)

I get that people are touchy about this, but try to see things without an emotional lens, it gets in the way progress more often than not. Some constructive discussion could be created if that were to happen, otherwise I've said my part.

It's clear as of now you don't care to listen to anyone who thinks anything other than what you do on the subject, so I'll go back to the PTS forums where some are more open to slightly opposing view points.

Good day, disgruntled werewolf.

Sincerely,
Contented werewolf.

Milf_Hero

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

***_Hero wrote: »

Your right. Im sure we will see the ww be worked in to more and more builds. We will see ww's as much as we see tanks,dps,healers,and vampires. Because of how awesome the ww is becoming.

Hyperbolic sarcasm, much appreciated. The best kind of sarcasm. (I can /sarcasm too)

I get that people are touchy about this, but try to see things without an emotional lens, it gets in the way progress more often than not. Some constructive discussion could be created if that were to happen, otherwise I've said my part.

It's clear as of now you don't care to listen to anyone who thinks anything other than what you do on the subject, so I'll go back to the PTS forums where some are more open to slightly opposing view points.

Good day, disgruntled werewolf.

Sincerely,
Contented werewolf.

I was not being sarcastic. I was saying that if what your saying is true, then the werewolf is on the right track. We will see it being used more and not every once in a blue moon by that random guy where your group might be like " what the heck are you doing? Your the tank or dps and we need you to hold up your end." You can receive it as sarcasm if want. I'm just gonna sit back and see what ZOS does next when the update comes out, then I will submit my feedback as I have always done. Nothing can be done until the changes that have currently been made are implemented.

Also if your going to label me then here, ill help you. Yeah im the disgruntled werewolf. I'm stubborn. I am selfish. Wanting the werewolf to be more than it is like many other werewolves that have seen what we have been given and find it wanting.

PS. @thejollygreenone You won't find people there that are more easy to get along with through your sumptuous vocabulary. So get used to it and debate till they are educated, you find points that you both agree upon, or you just don't reply to the person disagreeing and continue to voice your opinion to those who will listen.