Upcoming Werewolf Changes

GoodOrc

@‌Iduyenn nice adea!

ZOS can you make that after We transfor mwe hawe timer for 1 min but it only be 1/3 (or 1/5) part of Overall timer rhat Can be i n WW form! So I can eat beforehand if I know yhat big fight is comming Up!

Kypho

even if you get form forever. the aoespam in pvp will eat you. and the -streak swarm streak aoe streak swarm streak aoe streak swarm- too. not speaking of jabspamming.

Iduyenn

Kypho wrote: »

even if you get form forever. the aoespam in pvp will eat you. and the -streak swarm streak aoe streak swarm streak aoe streak swarm- too. not speaking of jabspamming.

Yes, that is a problem. I died in a heartbeat there. You can precast spells (like molten weapons), but after 1 minute, you have to rely totaly on strategy and your teammates.
Its a slight disadvantage you have to vampires and normal ppl, who can just cast anything at any time

Iduyenn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

DEUTSCHE PTS-PATCHNOTIZEN v1.5.1

[*] Werewolf

• Fixed an issue where light attacks were getting desynced.
• Fixed an issue where light attacks were stopping werewolf ability animations from playing.
• Bleed damage on light attacks no longer has a delay, allowing you to now damage your enemy on every hit.
• Slightly increased the damage done by heavy attacks.
  
• Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate.
• You can now sprint on all fours without sheathing your claws.
• Claws of Anguish (Infectious Claws morph): This ability now decreases enemy healing by 40% instead of 33%.
• Claws of Life (Infectious Claws morph): This ability now heals for 50% of damage caused instead of 33%.
• Feeding Frenzy: Fixed an issue where this synergy couldn't be used by werewolves.
• Hircine’s Bounty: Increased the heal from this ability by approximately 30%. We also fixed an issue where this ability couldn’t be a critical strike.
• Infectious Claws: Increased the damage over time from this ability by approximately 40%. We also reduced the initial damage from this ability by approximately 12%.
• Piercing Howl: Increased the damage of this ability by approximately 40%.

[/list]

[/list]

What? WHAT! Even LESS Time in WW? I go testing this now...

GoodOrc

Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate.

They rely did it... OMG we asked to give as more time, but they decresed it! Now its 30 sec in WW form! I ewen don't hawe time to kill welw mobs in upper clargorn! Simple dont hawe time!!!!!!!

Why? Why give as 5 skills that we coudnt use? We dont hawe time on it! OMG just better admit you dont know what to do with WW and delete them from this game! Any better meshes taunt those who believed you...

Iduyenn

@GoodOrc I just tested it and confirm: 30 sec.

I start thinking, they are trolling us... i mean...
We all gave some feedback here and they are nerfing us? (And i mean that in every way... the new skills... we can`t even use them...).

Edit: Or where they bribed by vampires?

Rune_Relic

I told everyone sheogorath was on the payroll lol

GoodOrc

@Iduyenn I think developers are Vampires! All they DO is making fun of us! No different explonations!

Aren_Liore

I'm sorry ZOS, but you're asking us to take 50% more damage from all incoming poison damage 24/7 (which any player anywhere can use in abundance) and only get a 30 sec "ultimate" that doesn't even compare with my usual outgoing DPS?

Not worth it.

I want to be a werewolf, I really do, but I'm not going to nerf myself just for the ability to turn into a two legged dog. Sorry.

first, bring that timer back up. second, lower the poison damage to maybe 35 or 40% and third, Increase attack speed for all attacks. OP? I don't think so, I'm spending a whole ULTIMATE slot on this. I should be a god for that little bit of time. IDK, maybe I'm wrong

Ok, I'll try to look at this from a different angle. Maybe ZOS wants all werewolves to work with each-other in a pack. I know there are a few passives that are boosted with other werewolves in your party, so maybe that's where they are trying to go with this? I don't have enough experience with the skill line or the people to test it with, but maybe some of you can offer those opinions.

I just want to see the day when we are in Cyrodiil and people are saying "Oh, crap, they have a werewolf." with it ripping through our forces and temporally dominating the battle field. Then again, I'd also love to see about 50 werewolves ripping a keep apart (and climbing over walls), but that's a far fetched dream at this point.

Enesse

The devs seem so afraid of werewolf becoming OP, but they won't make much progress if they won't take the risk.

ryu40010b14_ESO

EDIT: was mad when i wrote the original..... i will hold judgement until i test it for myself... and see how bad it really is, but im not optimistic

ryu40010b14_ESO

alright, tested: Damage increase WoW, lots of DPS lol, timer... bleh really short but with plentiful mobs its ok, boss fights, big damage for a little bit but poof gone in a short while.

my opinion.
combat:
leave all as it is, (possibly give us a little more time like 45 secs) but
let us keep the ultimate gained while in WW form and bring the cost down to about 350 total, and i think the WW community will be sated, at least i will lol.
RP:
the RPers want to RP a WW, then give them a WW costume so they can look the part at least.

GoodOrc

Maybe ZOS depending on pack leader morph! now its saids that WW alies willgain 4 sec awery time you arn ultimete (or somting like that) so while in fight with enemy we Can gain more time, BUT there must be 2 or more pack leaders (cos if 1 then He will not be gaining no time!) and second - Why do we need than "Call of the Pack" pasive?!! its useles! 5% longer stuks 5 time! ok 25%! but 25% from 30 seconds is 7.5 seconds! OU MY GOD you spend 2 skill poits make paty from 6 players just for 7 second! USSELES!
And what obout my solo game? I like to play solo not in Cirodil! What use of WW in solo game! Its damages vorse than my carakter! WW timer no so short that I ewen cooldn't kill mobs in Upper Clargorn (without devouring 2-3 times) and if you got 1 BIG mob timer (those 30 sek) is not enaff!

ZOS need to create like a treit on WW "the smell of blood" or "crashing rage" (somting like that) thats stops timer for 3 sec when you hit by hawy atack (whis a cool down like any treit on weapon)! But better do timer bigger 1.5-2 min would be great!

I just thinked that ewerbody will be Pavk leaders cos they nerfed berserker SO MUCH that it useles! What use from long blood lost when you hawe only 30 sek? beter to be PL and hope to find one PL and 2 of you will hawe more time in form!

natewook

well they have fixed pve i think....

ExiledKhallisi

Why cant we keep the ultimate in WW form? You can keep the ultimate during other ultimates.

Lykanus

Shortening the WW Time is a huge problem. Even when you play as a Pack with a even shorter Timer its almost impossible to do something as a Werewolves together(when the last has turned, the first needs to devour already...).
From my post http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1328829/#Comment_1328829 please consider the buff of getting the WW Timer stop for 3 sec in a fight.

Or increase the total WW time up to 3-5 Minutes (thats at least necessary for PvP), but better would be still the option that as long as you fight with that enemy, you stay a werewolf, that also solves the problems about PvE Fights, PvE where you cant devour anything and such.

With 30 seconds, it will be not more then a short burn in some dmg ability, that has downsides.
Bringing in more tactics and abilities for werewolves with 1.5 needs more time - when its only a short dmg increase where you didnt even got the time for planned a skill rotation or WW skill usage in a fight because its not more then a short melee-dmg buff ultimate where planning as playing a melee dps is useless because you cant plan on your WW skills and still need to fight most of the time as human anyway on most encounters.

Its important that you can plan the duration of an encounter through as a werewolf, otherwise you need to plan anyway as a human skillset and need to use most of time it.
You cant plan on relying on WW Skills and take use of it because for that time, you barely manage tactical usage out of it - but you have to plan with the downsides. Time for a skill rotation and the ability to use it is needed, when i have to use the human rotation most of the time, it will be hard to plan in "a sometimes WW" during the same fight, if even possible. If however i can plan for sure on the WW on that fight, i can setup my character for full WW and be sure it will work in PvE and PvP.

The Vampire works great because its everywhere, anytime useable without timelimits. Timelimits are always a big limitation, as shorter as more impacting they are.

For solo play the new Werewolf will work most part now and we are on a good way to be playable, but we need the time to use all our new abilities, to make tactical usage with the werewolves and planning as playing with / in a group and maybe a little bonus when in a pack, not as a "some seconds extra damage ability which you can press once during an encounter".

ExiledKhallisi

I change my mind, after testing...the time is wayyyy to short. It was a completely unnecessary change. It seems like it was made by some Dev who was possibly butt hurt as a player themselves about having to actually make the WW viable.

At first I thought it made sense with the change to bleed damage but it turns out with the bleeds I am doign SLIGHTLY more dps than I do on live with the haste. This loss of time needs to seriously thought out.

Everyone loves ice cream. But a scoop of Ice cream with a tiny speck of ***t in it is still ice cream with ***t in it.

draeganb16_ESO

@Aren_Liore : I disagree about the poison damage reduction you suggest, it is not the right path to improve werewolf.

The PvE werewolf is viable and almost good thanks to some new skills and new devour BUT as everyone is according to say, the right path to improve werewolf and make it viable in PvP is about the TIMER.

Does any devs has already played as a werewolf in Cyrodiil ?

Combats in PvP last waaaaaaay more than 30 littles seconds and devour is useless in this situation, no corpse to eat because most of the players recall. I speak about roaming and wide scale PvP ! We give you ideas to improve that like :

1. Make the timer stop for a short time at every hit, attack or heavy attack.
2. Stop removing the ultimate we gained during the fight as a werewolf

Just one of this little thing would make the difference both in PvP and in PvE especialy during boss fight.
Please, @ZOS, @Castle, anyone, do something about that. Don't make Werewolves banned from PvP and HL PvE

Kypho

ZoS : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI

I post here too my experience on PTS:

I killed 4 trashmobs. 1/4 timer left, i devour, timer back to 1/2, devour on cd, timer counting down.... devour again at 1/4, timer back to 1/2...
It is crap in pve, since you cant move on because you need to feed 5+ times in one place. In PvP why would you even bother. Attack NB? he will cloak and run away. Attack OPlar, he will blazespam, healspam while blocking, just like DK will keep blocking for 30 sec, and YES THEY BLOCK WHILE FEARED....

ZoS ...

GoodOrc

I just didnt get it! From were it comes? Why WW must be limited in time? Were in LOR says that We are limited in time? Maybe NPC limited in time? NO they transform and fight as Woolf all time to the deth or win (usualy deth) so I dont get it!
Make no timer but without oportunity to gather stuffs like in Skyrim!
WW in pack become stronger NOT just in form longer! In pack wolfs is fester stronger (maybe hawe incoming damage lower)

And maybe DO same difference betwen Morfs of ultimate! Becose arlier WW Pack lider was usseles Now it Will be Berserker!

Rellly I so disapointed,you hawe no idea! I even consider the option to tie the game so I do not see that developers normally referred to the players! For 6
moth we asked do WW better and nerf little bit vamps... maybe just Do fighters gild abilities more useful against vampires.. but nothing...

Iduyenn

Sorry, but it`s realy hard to sit tight and believe, that the devs come to their senses. (And yes, i slept over it)
And because most of the player here in this Forum seem to agree, that the Wolf is now perfect, it`s obviously me, who is a minority.
(Altough i can agree, that if you have enough dead bodys, you can eventually go along... but this is not endgame PVP/PVE or RP). In most of the situations you are f**** ed

I know, its still PTS. But if this goes live, we can wait another Year, until they finaly catch up with the werewolfs.
And if this goes life, i will be very mad @ZOS
So i will write this post and then i will try to be quiet. Promised...

Clearly, there is noone in ZOS, who realy like to play as a Werewolf. because otherwise they would at least look to the vampires and consider some of our propositions and concerns for the Werewolf in PVP/PVE and RP.

YOU said, that the toggle idea is not possible, due to technical restrictions. But what were you thinking instead? Realy... i would like to have a clear answer for the road ahead for Werewolfs. At least, i dont have to wait and guess anymore.

It has been a while and i wanted to know from Zenimax, what they intend to do with the Werewolf. Do they want the Werewolf to be an Ultimate, simply a addition to a stamina class, or will they allow player to actually play as a werewolf. I didn`t get any clear answer... only political speech.
And with playing as a Werewolf, i mean actually enjoy it. And not run from corps to corps until burnout.
Clear out this mess!

But i see where this is going. With the stamina-buffs, the Werewolf gives some nice passives... and hey... perhaps you can use him for 30 sec... show-off...
But clearly its nothing compared to a vampire. (Even though i would like to not compare things... but... its obvious... )

Now, they dont even allow us, to make something of our gained ultimate. They don`t even give us the longer werewolfform or any benefit of the packleader for ourselves.

We gave enough feedback/bugreports/ideas. No cookies in this world will distract me from the fact, that you are killing me.

Now i will be quiet, promised.

ExiledKhallisi

FLood the PTS forum with new posts to revert the time loss

Riseofangelsb14a_ESO

Although it's nice to have the increase to damage, you just don't have the time to appreciate it. Yes as long as you have bodies you can stay in form but the time spent running to the next thing to kill means your already out of time.(mainly speaking for pvp). I just want to run around as a werewolf and not have to worry about devouring something every second.

In pvp if one person lands a stun or knock down on you that's pretty much means your ultimate was wasted. cause once you get out of it you have to chase them down and by that time they are healed and ready to fight more but sadly your out of time and just transforming back is enough time for them to kill you.

Another point is that everyone else spends 2 skill points for their ultimate. yes they are short and sweet and do lots of damage, but as a werewolf we spend 22 skill points! if I'm going to invest this much into an ultimate I better get some amazing **** to come from that.

My final point is immersion. when I'm a werewolf I want to stay a werewolf and chase people down and toy with them. I don't want to kill them right away. Yet I can't do this with a 30 second timer hell I can't do that with the previous timer. Nobody wants to be constantly switch back and forth from human to ww. and if they do they can simply toggle the form off.

ZSO you have heard our cries/howls please listen to them.

ryu40010b14_ESO

at the vary least give us our ultimate and or timer back, i would be happy with either one

Lykanus

The new werewolf duration with a group- Trials, Group Dungeons and any larger Group activity is not possible with that short duration. From PvP i dont even think of speaking, a little snare, some seconds wait and poof you're gone back to human, unplayable.

All those great new abilities and then you dont get the time to use them, its even better if it increases back the ultimate cost and then increase the time, then you would be able to actually use all that new abilities at least.

It just feels unfun that way it is now, you got some toys to play but you actually arent be able to use them. They would make fun but you got no time for it to play with.

If it goes live that way it would delete the Werewolf skill line at whole and just make the werewolf "just an ultimate like any other that adds damage for some seconds", that is a niche because it costs many skill points, is complicated and wouldnt be worth the stress, so we'd end as we were before.
Triple the current timer to about 1min30sec and if necessary increase the ultimate cost a bit again if the developers think it would be to strong. Its by far better to get a bit less often to use it but then a fun experience then a more often but bad one.

Oronell

Oronell wrote: »

jvh808 wrote: »

Personally, I love werewolf lore in almost every culture it is mentioned in and especially those which also involve vampires. There is 1 aspect of a wolf that I have not seen made mention and I think it would solve most of the balance issues between Vamp and WW. Since vampires receive the sneak passive bonuses, why shouldn't the werewolf have a passive bonus that would counter it? A passive which is active as long as Werewolf is the active ultimate slot AND while in form would be the easiest and makes the most sense to me. My idea for this passive is:

Heightened Senses - While slotted in and in humanoid form stealth detection is increased by 1.5 yards. Also, reduces the damage taken from a stealthed enemy by 15%. While in werewolf form however, these bonuses should at the very least be doubled. I say they should double at least due to the short amount of time we have while actually in form.

Thanks for your time.

Love this idea. Combining this with a slight increase to movement speed would make playing a Werewolf in human form loads of fun. In all honesty I would rather have these passives WITH the ability to stay in form much longer, via devour and continuity of combat, than the ability to transform more often i.e. a low Ultimate Cost.

Edit: I'm still in favor of forced transformations during a full moon as long as there are "anti transformation" potion recipes available (additional revenue stream for alchemists).

After seeing all these responses to Werewolf testing on PTS I had to re-post this. I maintain my opinion that if they implement the above the Werewolf will finally be viable and fun to play.

NOTE: I also believe that Werewolves should not have a 100% CC break ability while transformed. This should be the Achilles heel to having a Werewolf that needs to be in constant combat (sating rage) or seeking out food (on the hunt) to remain transformed.

Rune_Relic

Is there any chance they done this for PVP to make sure when there is mass numbers storming a keep... you cant just stay permanently in ww form ?
Would you be OP with permanent ww.
Just interested from an outsiders viewpoint.

GoodOrc

@Rune_Relic
Is there any chance they done this for PVP to make sure when there is mass numbers storming a keep... you cant just stay permanently in ww form ?
Would you be OP with permanent ww.
Just interested from an outsiders viewpoint.

You newer been WW in Cirodill? With +50% of poison damage and eiyh You LOOKS youre are №1 target! Ewery time I become WW in Cirodill my life time was about 1-3 sec!
Ok Now with new Heal Abbility it will be 4-6 sek! its not OP in Cirodil becos archers, but its no fun to be transformed die and run from tent to fight again just to loss your form!
30 sek man is nothing!

@ZOS Who tell you gais that WW must be like ewery other ultimate? Its you inserted it there! WW more like gild (fighters or mages) abiliti, just you can use in oly in WW form! Reed you own LOR WW newer been limited to time in form! Some of wolf ewen forgot who they was in human life, cos Wolf give them feeling of power! NPC that you kreated hawe no time limmit in form!

BUT NO you want to make it just Ultimate for 22 skill points for 30 sek! Its not intresting! You say we wont that you explore the world! I want to explore it in WW form, without battle rush! I was exploring it for 6 moth in human form and waiting that you give us chunges, chunges that make WW intresting to play! I in game to hawe fun not buttle rushing....

ExiledKhallisi

As it stands currently in 1.5.1 There is no DPS benefit for being a werewolf. You can do equal if not more DPS in human form on any class. You also have your class utility.

The only way they could actually make the werewolf worth using would be to increase its damage/time limit and-or Allow us to use class skills in werewolf form. Another Idea is that werewolves be allowed to retain their ultimate aquired while in WW form. People can do this with other ultimates. which DO give them a DPS boost. Why not Werewolves who actually see a DPS loss?

Hypertionb14_ESO

here is my suggestion. Increase the MAX duration of werewolf to 75 seconds, BUT.. have the duration when you transform directly linked to how much excess ultmiate you have when you do.

for example

400 ult (base) = 30 seconds
800 ult (2x base) = 60 seconds
1000 ult (maximum) = 75 seconds

cost reduction items for WW would only provide the duration for the amount of ult before the reduction, for example using the Salvation set at the lowest possible cost would only provide as if it was the base 400 cost.

here we would gain the choice to save ult for longer time vs a boss or using instantly and building time vs weaker mobs becomes viable.

in action you could transform at 400 and only have 30 seconds initially, but boost your duration to 75 seconds via devour. also against longer fights you could store up the ult beforehand to last the maximum 75 seconds from the start of the form.


this would balance out the duration by having directly proportional costs when transforming initially.