Upcoming Werewolf Changes

GoodOrc · October 2014

Okay, guys, be indulgent to a man who finaly got what he wanted! I played the whole night through! Typing in the dark without thinking about grammar! As well as the English for me is not something that is not native, but not ewen a second language!

Once again I apologize! Just so many emotions that I wanted to share!

Davadin · October 2014

GoodOrc wrote: »

Okay, guys, be indulgent to a man who finaly got what he wanted! I played the whole night through! Typing in the dark without thinking about grammar! As well as the English for me is not something that is not native, but not ewen a second language!

Once again I apologize! Just so many emotions that I wanted to share!

Just FYI, I'm cool with it. A little... perplexed, perhaps? LoL but I'm cool...

Thanks for reporting back...

Iduyenn · October 2014

Hey Guys
I put together some Links from inside this forum. I`d like to keep the soup hot, so the discussions can lead to improvements. I would hate to see the WW being more bugged after 1.5 release.We would have to wait until the next patch or even bigger update... Better now be thorrow.

But: Remember: It`s PTS, so hopefully the devs can still fix some stuff or add some of your great ideas. We simply have to remind them, that there still are problems. We should speak up now. Otherwise; No reports/requirements/discussions, no action.

Perhaps someone has some ideas. Let`s hope...
And perhaps it helps to go on PTS and make Bugreports

Iduyenn · October 2014

Sory for double post, but here is my Feedback:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136127/my-feedback-after-testing-werewolf-141016-000305-and-additions?new=1

Iduyenn wrote: »

Hey guys, I did a Test on PTS myself: Here are the Results:

- I would like to be able to rearrange the skills on my WW bar
- Savage Strengh: Increases weapondamage by 18% in WW form.
I am ok with that, because i dont want to have player choosing WW only because of the passives in human form.
- Call of the Pack: need to be improved, since you wont have more than 3 Werewolfs in smaller dungeons.
- Devour CD: ~4 sec = very good, but during long bossfight of no use. Especially, if there are no critters around. Beside the low damage, de overall dps is low enough due to breaks (like devour, way to pray, etc. )
- In PVP ww time is too short too.
- I took the time!!! 47 sec. in WW form. (Without Animations)... Way to short.
- Pack leader; Doesn`t work properly. The Ultimates gained are still deleted if changing back to human. Precious Ultimate!! And as i see it, you dont gain more WW time, only your fellow wolves? This should also work on self!
- Damage: Way too low. I was overcapped at stamina, weaponpower, staminaregg and had the right enchantements... i even let go of surviability... the damage is still to low... to low to low to low.
I dont mention the claw- poison- bug and the other bugs mentioned by fellow wolves here i the forum.

One Pic i have to show you...: Look in to my eyes baby...
@Zenimax: Hope you see this...

1621904_10152776952819253_2592580568235425532_n.jpg?oh=e222d71eee317418192d57368d3ec191&oe=54F86499&__gda__=1425124595_fa243f8656ffa38fba6f49585e5e19f5

(Edit; Look in to my original thread, to enlarge the picture)

GoodOrc · October 2014

Generally, all that we need to increase it a little more armor and stamina in the transformation (not 1%) I have checked the PTS amount of damage that you receive from scorpions and other small things almost the same in both forms (the difference ~ 3-6 points of damage) So it my character without rings on Armour!
Werewolf speed a little more Than human, but Human haw Horse!

what's the point turn into a non-human if you do not get excellence!
In LOR people walked to Hircine to get FORCE, not to be lame dogs on 2 feets!
ZENIMAX stop being afreid of OP WW !!!!
make +5% stamina and +15% armor on transformation! At least give us a 1.5-2 minute timer and not accidents 50 seconds

let us feel a little bit of force!

Davadin · October 2014

GoodOrc wrote: »

Generally, all that we need to increase it a little more armor and stamina in the transformation (not 1%) I have checked the PTS amount of damage that you receive from scorpions and other small things almost the same in both forms (the difference ~ 3-6 points of damage) So it my character without rings on Armour!
Werewolf speed a little more Than human, but Human haw Horse!

what's the point turn into a non-human if you do not get excellence!
In LOR people walked to Hircine to get FORCE, not to be lame dogs on 2 feets!
ZENIMAX stop being afreid of OP WW !!!!
make +5% stamina and +15% armor on transformation! At least give us a 1.5-2 minute timer and not accidents 50 seconds

let us feel a little bit of force!

This forum should allow BOTH Agree and Awesome vote at the same post...

jgc471980 · October 2014

@ the Devs

PLEASE make the timer longer not giving us more time in werewolf form is just silly, vampires are 24/7 and yet we cannot ? did you see my post about possible suggestions

Even when I play at my best keeping ultimate Timer full aka in w/w form is not easy at all and by not easy im like whew!!! pant !!! whew!!!

1: After you out of combat then 60 seconds Starts
2: Devour is a killing strike on 15% health and then added 1/2/3 minutes timer

1: Werewolf skins is a Easy thing to mod not sure why your giving excuses

2: Crawl/Prowl/Sprint on 4 legs is nothing more than a new model to be added and overlay, Considering how long the game has been out and suggestions from day 17 onwards pretty sure you have had many MANY suggestions

Truly hope some more gets added or i will revise my decision paid for 4 months so far played only like 4 days in total since i got to 50 due to solo content 1-12 being awful beyond words and w/w class being as useful as a poodle.

Iduyenn · October 2014

I just got another Idea:

Since you obviously don`t want wolves everywhere leaving their marks in big cities, there should be more safezones, where RP is possible.
In Cyrodiil there should be areas, huntinggrounds, where our pack can move without fearing to be pulled out.
In some raids for example, like you cant mount on your horse, you could allow the wolfe, to remain in his form.
So there is a challange, to get to know the safe-spots and in pvp fortnuately our enemys could know them aswell...

And then there is the possibility to not set off the whole WW counter, but slow it down while out of combat. So you can safely hop from trashgroups to trashgroups and beeing able to eat a mouse in between.

I strongly recomend of beeing persued by any guards seeing you transform.
But remember: The bounty applies only, if someone sees our face... eh... our dead face...

Castle · October 2014

Iduyenn wrote: »

Hey Guys
I put together some Links from inside this forum. I`d like to keep the soup hot, so the discussions can lead to improvements. I would hate to see the WW being more bugged after 1.5 release.We would have to wait until the next patch or even bigger update... Better now be thorrow.

(trimmed for length)

Perhaps someone has some ideas. Let`s hope...
And perhaps it helps to go on PTS and make Bugreports

This is an excellent resource. Thank you!

GoodOrc · October 2014

Developers do not need to make an eternal form! just over 1.5-3 minutes long so as to be already working devour its enough! Understand we need to ask, not all at once but the little that REALLY can be obtained through!
And fur/eyes customization will be great!

especially considering how long we waited for anything

Iduyenn · October 2014

Hey Guys

I updated the List of Links and shortened my monstrous posts. The newest Threads are on the bottom quoted extra.

It would like to mention, that i am an EU player and had no problems wit PTR Presets (Altough, i d like to have some mats to craft sets).
But for everyone, who wasn`t on the PTR; You should realy try it out. You can create a vet 14 character and directly play as a wolf, since you have every skill at the maximum.
If you get crashed after character creation, just wait and restart. Then you can log in to the game. Have patience, it takes some time for the loading screen. That seems to be normal.

From @granty2008cyb16_ESO
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136140/gemstone-of-werewolf-visage

This thread is about the idea of a WW disguise, so, that you can wear the skin all the time.
This thread gave me some new ideas about steering mechanism for WW trough disguise. I more an more like my idea about the safezones/safespots, where your WW-timer stops (like the shrine of hircine).

@Iduyenn (myself). Did some testing on PTR and spotted some things.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136127/my-feedback-after-testing-werewolf-141016-000305-and-additions

Iduyenn · October 2014

delete

Iduyenn · October 2014

- please delete

Shayu · October 2014

@Castle, if your eyes are still on this topic, are there any plans to increase the werewolves damage mitigation bonus or perhaps buff the damage of their abilities and light attacks to bring their DPS back in line with live?

I'm sure many other werewolves, as well as myself, are concerned with the fact that our DPS has gone down since the last patch. I'm sure they're also concerned with the fact that competent archers can bring us down in seconds from across the battlefield.

If there are no current plans for this, are you guys balancing the game over at ZOS open to the idea of making changes like this? I'm sure we'd all like to see some rebalancing done to the current PTS build before it drops live. That's what the PTS is for isn't it? testing to see if new patches need further rebalancing?

I know you would probably need time to ask the design crew @Castle , but I would really appreciate it if you could get some sortof answer to us in the near future.

Davadin · October 2014

Here's an idea:

In Werewolf mode, Ranged attack (physical or magical) will be reduced to 50%.

AW HELL YEAH.

Forget everything else you read in this thread and just implement THIS, I'd switch back to WW in a heartbeat.

Until then, there's zero reason to get off my Vamp skill...

Kypho · October 2014

Davadin wrote: »

Here's an idea:

In Werewolf mode, Ranged attack (physical or magical) will be reduced to 50%.

AW HELL YEAH.

Forget everything else you read in this thread and just implement THIS, I'd switch back to WW in a heartbeat.

Until then, there's zero reason to get off my Vamp skill...

Maybe its a good idea, since vamps got dmg resistance passive too. And WW should be VERY VERY strong, and fast. Its not fast enough currently, and not strong. whats the HP? like your char? DMG resistances? nothing. Its beast almost like a bloodsucker, why is it not so strong then?
OK. no good passives in human form (its not ok, but whatever lolzos....)
But in beast form! Why not get better passives than bloodsuckers? Its working just in beast form right? Vamp regen passive, dmg mitigation passive 2 awesome ultis.... all OP crap compared anything other. Give us great passives in beast form! Like what Davadin suggested and more Armor and HP.

Kypho · October 2014

btw developers... try WW in clagroln. try vamp then try ww again.... WW SUX!!!!!!! so next buffs pls.....

GoodOrc · October 2014

Think obout this, ZOS, 1 on 1 WW must be more powerfull then vampire!

Is it stronger now?
Will it be stronger after 1.5? Hell NO!

If you want to change somting change it radically, with courage, so than you would be able to say "we tried"!

Iduyenn · October 2014

Hey guys there is a lot going on in the Forums about WW`s, wich is very good.
Also the links i post you get updated. Look in to the PTS forums, if you realy want to be updated.
Or much better: Participate on the PTS Forums!

Iduyenn wrote: »

Hey Guys

I updated the List of Links and shortened my monstrous posts. The newest Threads are on the bottom quoted extra.

It would like to mention, that i am an EU player and had no problems wit PTR Presets (Altough, i d like to have some mats to craft sets).
But for everyone, who wasn`t on the PTR; You should realy try it out. You can create a vet 14 character and directly play as a wolf, since you have every skill at the maximum.
If you get crashed after character creation, just wait and restart. Then you can log in to the game. Have patience, it takes some time for the loading screen. That seems to be normal.

Here in this thread, there are some new feedbcks on the Werewolf!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/135888/update-5-testing-suggestions-and-feedback-wanted/p2

@‌ Saphy24 proclaims of beeing hitted by 2.5k by a WW.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1327669#Comment_1327669

Here a thread with Bug compilations in general.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/135707/pts-1-5-bug-compilation#latest

nightwalkerrobin_ESO wrote: »

Werewolf Testing

Had posted this in the wrong spot, so I moved it here.

The bleed damage tick, as others have posted, is almost never happening as you are doing light attacks fast enough to never see a tick. The bleed should be applied the first light attack that hits, then run till it's timer expires. Then reapply if target is still alive and a light attack hits.

Sprint run animation: Does not work, at least on my Pack Leader morph. Always still run upright. Changed transformation morph to Berserker, no change. Never run on all fours, always standing.

Transformation as an Ultimate and ultimate gain while in WW form: Ok, either change the transformation to toggle and NOT an Ultimate or let us keep the ultimate points gained when we shift back to racial form. It is utterly stupid to gain a full amount of ultimate points while in WW form just to flush them when you transform back to racial form. And it still leaves the WW without a combat ultimate like every other class has. Making transformation a toggle will also make it better for players to do dungeons (if they wish) in WW form or RP in WW form. If being in the city is a problem, well we can already do that. So that is not an issue. but this issue can be fixed when the Justice System comes out. if we transform while in a city, we are marked as KOS by guards and enforcers.

Devour: Thanks for really lowering the cooldown on this and making more corpse types usable, makes it much better. But we should be able to devour each corpse. I think there is a 5 sec timer, but where I was testing the bodies would despawn too fast for me to devour one then try to test on another. If there is a cool down, just remove it completely and set so we can only devour each corpse one time. This would make it even better.

Pack Leader Morph of Transformation: Ok in PTS the White WW looks terrible, and yes it is different than what is on live. This needs to be fixed. The muzzle is hairless and it looks almost undead.The Berserker morph look terrible also.

Infectious Claws: The animation is very clunky and slow. You hit the button to use it, then wait for the animation. Should be as fast as the light attack animation. DOT could be a bit more, but then as far as I see all DOTs seem low to me.

Piercing Howl: Clunky animation and the timing is way off. You hit the button to use the attack, the target falls down, then you see the howl animation. But at least it works. And is should be a AOE cone in front of you, why would it only affect one target if two or three are standing closely together.

Passive Stamina Regen: This is not working correctly. Comparing my character in live and on PTS, both are same stats. My live character has a stamina regen of 86, on PTS it is 96. Adding 15% to 86 is roughly 98.9. Where did the 2.9 points of regen go? Did some more looking at this. these are my current numbers. I am wondering if maybe the WW passive is being applied to the base Stamina Regen before any other skill buffs are applied? I am a Templar do have Repentance. With it removed, my live stamina regen is 76 and PTS stamina regen is 86, with it slotted, live is 86 and PTS is 96. But the math is still wrong, there are points missing.

Last but not Least: We got a response from Gina. So sit tight and wait for some updates on the PTS!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys! Just wanted to let you know that many of these issues will be addressed when we release our next iterative patch on the PTS. We'll post all the details in the patch notes as soon as we have them ready to go! Thank you all very much for your reports on these issues, and please let us know if you continue to see any problems after 1.5.1 is released.

PS: And I didn`t mention our "Prime Alpha" @Castle : Thank you

ryu40010b14_ESO · October 2014

wanted to post my personal observations, please feel free to clarify if im mistaken or missed any major bugs.

Pros: as a pack leader what i have seen so far WW if by and far more survivable, i went into combat and survived mobs that used to wipe me with ease and i tossed them around like toys, so kudos

.

Cons: my observations of players with berserkers have been a mix, but most are angry that they have far less DPS but this is in part due to a bug where DOT bleed is being reset per atk on light attacks but DPS is still lower all around.

Bugs: 1.WW attacks seem to have a lag to them on the PTS and this has caused me to miss and misfire attacks.
2. i cant run with the new animation unless i "sheathe my claws" wich is awkward and at times makes it so i cannot attack something for several seconds.
3. the stamina boost from the base transform is not taking effect (not sure if this is intentional or not).
4. if i transform mid combat and am in the middle of an attack i will empty my ultimate and not transform but will glow red and walk vary slowly until i log out and back in.

Nerouyn · October 2014

These look like definite improvements. But not enough to tempt me. Pro shapeshifting but not as an occasional ultimate.

ryu40010b14_ESO · October 2014

Nerouyn wrote: »

These look like definite improvements. But not enough to tempt me. Pro shapeshifting but not as an occasional ultimate.

to be honest i felt the same but after the cost reduction combined with the passives i can change after only 2-3 kills of basic mobs and can maintain WW for quie a while so long as there are plentiful mobs to eat lol

Lykanus · October 2014

After testing the werewolf changes, the basic problems still persists:
The new utility skills are nice and its sure an improvement from what we had before, but there will be still no role for werewolves in pve or pvp.

There is still the problem to justify for giving up your class/weapon and all other utility skills you generally have. Give us a reason to drop them, ie make the werewolf a real, real dangerous melee beast in pve. You can still counter it by not making melee everywhere the best option (anyway that is already in some encounters already the case) so the werewolf wont get overpowered. So increase the damage/stamina or what is necessary to really make him shine in his role, currently its still to low.

Second part is the useability of the werewolf. With the lowering cost of the Ultimate its better then before, but he is still un-useable at PvE grouping (endgame) or PvP.

Bring in a "Rage of the Battle" passive ability that every time you hit a mob gives the player a refreshing (not stacking!) buff the stops the werewolf-time-counter for 3 seconds. So you can turn into a werewolf before a boss and can be sure you finish the encounter also as a werewolf.
For PvP, also add in PvP after killing an enemy player as a werewolf 60 seconds to your werewolf time, so you get at least some time to choose your next battle and of course let rage of the battle passive work on enemy players. Devouring in pvp is almost unuseable so this is in dire need to see at least sometimes werewolves in a battle (and that would be cool!).
This should be easy implementable by the engine as it is already possible to stop the Wolf timer near hircine's shrines, so make that a buff cast on every melee hit of a werewolf that hits for 3seconds.

So as a prayer to hircine, please give the werewolf a role where he can fit in. Give him a viable and playable role in PvE by making him the best melee beast, that justifys bringing him to trials/arenas and for PvP give him an option to take part on the battlefield by increasing his werewolf time in PvP battles.

You dont need to fear about seeing then running only werewolves in PvE or PvP, as there will be still class abilities, magicka and range abilities that work great/better in many cases and you will see many pve encounters where poison/melee-only or the fixed skillset of the werewolves wont be an option anyway- so it will still be limited by that anyway - BUT the werewolf needs to shine in his parts at least, otherwise we wont ever get the werewolves as a good addition to a group/in the battlefield or see used outside of fun events.

Shayu · October 2014

Lykanus wrote: »

So as a prayer to hircine, please give the werewolf a role where he can fit in. Give him a viable and playable role in PvE by making him the best melee beast, that justifys bringing him to trials/arenas and for PvP give him an option to take part on the battlefield by increasing his werewolf time in PvP battles.

You dont need to fear about seeing then running only werewolves in PvE or PvP, as there will be still class abilities, magicka and range abilities that work great/better in many cases and you will see many pve encounters where poison/melee-only or the fixed skillset of the werewolves wont be an option anyway- so it will still be limited by that anyway - BUT the werewolf needs to shine in his parts at least, otherwise we wont ever get the werewolves as a good addition to a group/in the battlefield or see used outside of fun events.

I want to emphasize this ZOS; @Castle you have been doing a great job so far addressing our concerns as werewolves, I hope you will continue to do so.

draeganb16_ESO · October 2014

Lykanus wrote: »

Bring in a "Rage of the Battle" passive ability that every time you hit a mob gives the player a refreshing (not stacking!) buff the stops the werewolf-time-counter for 3 seconds. So you can turn into a werewolf before a boss and can be sure you finish the encounter also as a werewolf.
For PvP, also add in PvP after killing an enemy player as a werewolf 60 seconds to your werewolf time, so you get at least some time to choose your next battle and of course let rage of the battle passive work on enemy players. Devouring in pvp is almost unuseable so this is in dire need to see at least sometimes werewolves in a battle (and that would be cool!).
This should be easy implementable by the engine as it is already possible to stop the Wolf timer near hircine's shrines, so make that a buff cast on every melee hit of a werewolf that hits for 3seconds.

I like that suggestion, simple and effective. That would match with the idea that as long as a werewolf fight, he is a werewolf !
@ZOS should really think about that

ryu40010b14_ESO · October 2014

someone suggested in the 1.5 discussion that they revamp WW to be like Overload in that it can cost as little as 100 but up to 1000 ultimate to change and you stay transformed until you use up your ultimate, have light and heavy attacks cost 15 ultimate and abilities cost a bit more, have devour refund ultimate and i say we have a nice idea.

draeganb16_ESO · October 2014

@ryu40010b14_ESO : Most of people that use werewolf at a high level will have to disagree with you because devour is not an efficient way to get back ultimate/timer in long boss fight or in Cyrodiil (even with the modified devour in the 1.5).

ryu40010b14_ESO · October 2014

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

@ryu40010b14_ESO : Most of people that use werewolf at a high level will have to disagree with you because devour is not an efficient way to get back ultimate/timer in long boss fight or in Cyrodiil (even with the modified devour in the 1.5).

perhaps if they let you keep the ultimate gained while in WW form would make up for the current timer issues?
i know that after just a bit ive filled my ultimate gauge again and would be elated if after the timer ran down it could "consume" the ultimate gauge to refill the timer effectively fixing the boss battle issue.

ryu40010b14_ESO · October 2014

i do have one major complaint though, please take back the bad haircut you gave my packleader WW skin

he is seriously more ugly than he was and thats saying something lol.

Iduyenn · October 2014

One major weakness is the following:

In PVP you have to feed to, but most of the enemy player release their soul to a wayshrine in less than a second. So you cant realy devour them.
A reason more, to make WW form possible up to 5 minutes, so you can eat before and have some time...