Upcoming Werewolf Changes

apagano425

One more little thing that would just make it a little better is to change the werewolf running animation the same as it was in Skyrim. When I sprint as a werewolf I just look like a hobbling fool, its kind of silly the way it looks and does not at all strike fear into my enemies.

set44ub17_ESO1

An ultimate morph makeing them leap to a target while changing and damaging on impact would be realy cool. Werewolves should be imune to disease as a passive also. Agree on taking away the poison weakness as well. The negative could be when they ad the justice system that they generate a bounty or something if I'm werewolf form arround npc's

draeganb16_ESO

set44ub17_ESO1 wrote: »

Werewolves should be imune to disease as a passive also. Agree on taking away the poison weakness as well. The negative could be when they ad the justice system that they generate a bounty or something if I'm werewolf form arround npc's

Why not adding an immunity to disease passive but the weakness to poison should stay, it is our Achilles' heel. As I see it, it represent our weakness to silver that is not present in TESO like other TES (Silver bolt from fighter's guild apart, it's a unique skill)

Valamaar

I like that you have added and changed some things...but you have not addressed as far as i can tell...THE BUG THAT HAPPENS 50% OF THE TIME I TRANSFORM. I have sent bug reports and tickets and never heard a thing. When I transform half the time...literally half the time she starts to transform and then freezes in a half morphed twisted state and is stuck with her arms out and stuck in walking speed. in a dungeon i literally just did 5 mins ago....it happened twice...i got to use my ww 1 time in a fight! ONE TIME! in a dungeon. this happens so often I have seriously considered switching to vampire. but im praying PRAYING you know this is happening despite you not responding to anything i have sent in.

apagano425

Valamaar wrote: »

I like that you have added and changed some things...but you have not addressed as far as i can tell...THE BUG THAT HAPPENS 50% OF THE TIME I TRANSFORM. I have sent bug reports and tickets and never heard a thing. When I transform half the time...literally half the time she starts to transform and then freezes in a half morphed twisted state and is stuck with her arms out and stuck in walking speed. in a dungeon i literally just did 5 mins ago....it happened twice...i got to use my ww 1 time in a fight! ONE TIME! in a dungeon. this happens so often I have seriously considered switching to vampire. but im praying PRAYING you know this is happening despite you not responding to anything i have sent in.

You know after reading this I thought that you were full of it and that it had something to do with your computer or game, but soon after reading this I experienced the same bug. It was pretty funny actually it looked like my player had a severe stroke. In all seriousness though, this is a major bug that needs ZOS attention.

Thejollygreenone

apagano425 wrote: »

Valamaar wrote: »

I like that you have added and changed some things...but you have not addressed as far as i can tell...THE BUG THAT HAPPENS 50% OF THE TIME I TRANSFORM. I have sent bug reports and tickets and never heard a thing. When I transform half the time...literally half the time she starts to transform and then freezes in a half morphed twisted state and is stuck with her arms out and stuck in walking speed. in a dungeon i literally just did 5 mins ago....it happened twice...i got to use my ww 1 time in a fight! ONE TIME! in a dungeon. this happens so often I have seriously considered switching to vampire. but im praying PRAYING you know this is happening despite you not responding to anything i have sent in.

You know after reading this I thought that you were full of it and that it had something to do with your computer or game, but soon after reading this I experienced the same bug. It was pretty funny actually it looked like my player had a severe stroke. In all seriousness though, this is a major bug that needs ZOS attention.

Anyone who's a werewolf really should have experienced this bug by now. It happened to me literally the very first time I transformed when picking up lycanthropy a month or two ago.

From what I can tell, it happens mostly for me when I'm frantically spamming my ultimate hotkey hoping for the transformation to start. Once it does, and I accidentally keep hitting the hotkey, it will result in this bug. Ult taken away, stuck in a messed up slow state.

It's a really rough bug to have floatin around.

WraithAzraiel

Iduyenn wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Another idea - turn the Transform Ultimate into an actual useable ultimate while in werewolf form.
- like a health draining bite called Feral Bite
- or a heavy frontal cone cleave swipe attack that knock's the enemy down and disorients called Maul or something
- have it cost a chunk of the timer or if you end up going the path of the Overload skill, a chunk of Ultimate.

Sound good?

Problem: What, if you want to change back? (e.g for healing, ranged...)

I like the Idea of Packleader gaining ultimate transformed in to more WW time for ALL WW`s!
Becaue it supports the idea of WW playing as a pack. If you have enugh surviability and selfheal, it would be nice to be able to play without a healer and a tank.
Perhaps, with spellcrafting, this could be posible. (Your roar mutate to an aoe spot spell).

So either we have some very strong ultimate-passives, or some very good ultimate actives. I wouldn`t mind, to see WW transformation in Slot 1-5 (Or a total separate slot... that would be fair).

With spellcrafting everything gets interesting, because i could morph my templar healskills into WW roar so it would scale from stamina and cost stamina.

So the big question is, if WW can benefit from spellcrafting. If yes, we have great potential, if not, we are screwed...

I don't see your question here, what do you mean, "What if you want to change back?" Then you let your WW timer run out and go for healing or ranged.

It makes no sense for it to be a toggle that can be switched off at any moment. It's a playstyle choice, giving it the ability to be turned off on a whim would cheapen it.

And I think you misunderstand what Spellcrafting is going to give you. It's NOT going to give you the chance to morph and toy with PRE-EXISTING skills and class abilities (IE: You can't pick a skill like Werewolf Roar and turn it into something that it isn't already.)

It's been explained to the point that we can surmise that it'll work akin to Enchanting. Each spell will have components (Magic Type, Duration, Type of Targeting and Quality (Green Blue Purple Yellow)

To my understanding, you will not be able to augment or tweak existing skills.

draeganb16_ESO

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

From what I can tell, it happens mostly for me when I'm frantically spamming my ultimate hotkey hoping for the transformation to start. Once it does, and I accidentally keep hitting the hotkey, it will result in this bug. Ult taken away, stuck in a messed up slow state.

@Valamaar : Do you spam your ulti hotkey ? It only happened 3 times for me because of lag and I stopped doing so ever since. If you don't spam your hotkey, you should have an issue with your computer because it's the first time I heard of someone that happens 50% of the time O.o

Dev should make a security to prevent de-transformation during the transformation or simply fix the bug

natewook

i get this EVERY time i transform and waste ultimate EVERY time i die a lot because of it

Valamaar wrote: »

I like that you have added and changed some things...but you have not addressed as far as i can tell...THE BUG THAT HAPPENS 50% OF THE TIME I TRANSFORM. I have sent bug reports and tickets and never heard a thing. When I transform half the time...literally half the time she starts to transform and then freezes in a half morphed twisted state and is stuck with her arms out and stuck in walking speed. in a dungeon i literally just did 5 mins ago....it happened twice...i got to use my ww 1 time in a fight! ONE TIME! in a dungeon. this happens so often I have seriously considered switching to vampire. but im praying PRAYING you know this is happening despite you not responding to anything i have sent in.

Enesse

People still get that problem? Weird. I haven't gotten it since the Packleader bug months ago. Sometimes it takes a few moments for the werewolf form to load, but that's just lag for me. A quick /reloadui fixes it if it doesn't fix itself after 5 seconds.

apagano425

Valamaar wrote: »

I like that you have added and changed some things...but you have not addressed as far as i can tell...THE BUG THAT HAPPENS 50% OF THE TIME I TRANSFORM. I have sent bug reports and tickets and never heard a thing. When I transform half the time...literally half the time she starts to transform and then freezes in a half morphed twisted state and is stuck with her arms out and stuck in walking speed. in a dungeon i literally just did 5 mins ago....it happened twice...i got to use my ww 1 time in a fight! ONE TIME! in a dungeon. this happens so often I have seriously considered switching to vampire. but im praying PRAYING you know this is happening despite you not responding to anything i have sent in.

The first fix I tried was reloadui, it's what i try to fix anything initially. What I've observed is that if I simply stay perfectly still and only press the ult button once then my transformation completes unbugged.

Valamaar

Guys despite the fix that some of you have found....reloadui, staying perfectly still not spamming the ulti key. My point is in response to all you have written. Is that we should not have to walk on glass to use it and get it to work properly. What I have found that triggers the bug for me is to use it when combat is initiated already, hitting the button after morph has started, taking damage while morphing and moving or hitting a mouse button while morphing. you basically have to sit still out of combat for you to have a decent chance at it happening without issues and even then the graphics of it happening are choppy as heck. We shouldnt have to perform a PC version of a Nintendo cartridge ceremony to get it to work right the way we did years ago to on the old platforms (I.E. blowing into it, moving it around while its turned on inside the console to get the screen to look right, turning it off and on or spamming the reset button...) for the ninentendo generation people you will know exactly what I am talking about. Zenimax needs to fix it. I am SICK of WW's being the *** child of the underworld in ESO neglected and tended to when its convenient.

set44ub17_ESO1

you guys do know you can transform back by just hitting the ultimate again?

KenjiJU

I'd like to see a passive adding survivability. Something like 3%/5% damage reduction or a flat armor/hp increase. There should be something that attracts mages to use WW instead of Vamp.

Grao

Quite a few ideas on how to strengthen the werewolf tree line without making them overpowered. I will start with the active abilities and discuss passives later on.

Ultimate Abilities

Werewolf Transformation, Pack Leader and Berserker are fine though as someone that enjoys RPing, I'd love if werewolves were given a disguise that placed us in transformed form so we could have some furry fun.

Active Abilities

• Pounce and its morphs is also fine as long as the animation bugs are completely purged. If anything I'd make Feral Pounce a little stronger, right now it pales in comparison to Brutal Pounce.
• Roar and its morphs: Fear is a very situational ability at the moment. Instead of causing enemies to run, I'd wish Roar would cause targets to cower in fear - This small change would make the ability far more reliable in dungeon scenarios where at the moment it is unwise using fears because fleeing NPCs will agro the next mob.
• Hircine’s Bounty: I hate how devour currently works, so I propose making it into an active (this will make sustaining the werewolf form easier and far more responsive then it is currently). Basically you bite the target dealing damage and that extends the duration of your werewolf form by X seconds. Morphs for this ability would add self heal (as you originally intended) OR stamina regen.
• Piercing Howl: I like the potential of this ability as an AoE crowd control. It seems to collide a little with Roar though. Maybe we could have an interaction between the two abilities? For instance, "feared targets are stunned" - That would fix the problems with Roar's reliability without actually needing to change the ability.
• Wild Call: Character Howls and summons wolves to their aid. Why? Because it would be really fun. This is the same ability NPC wolves have, they howl and call for a few friends. The summons are not strong, but are still an increase in DPS and morps to this ability could be very interesting, maybe making the wolves stronger or having their presence buff you and other werewolves present. All in all, far more fun then Infectious Claws

Passive Abilities

• Pursuit: With werewolf transformation slotted, not just in werewolf form. Why? We carry our weakness all the time, so we should have positives all the time as well. As for why in game, werewolves are stronger then normal humans all the time, not only in their were-form. The buff should be weaker while in human form (50%), but not nonexistent.
• Blood Rage: I am fine with this passive
• Savage Strength: Should become a great passive once the 'stacking; problem is removed from the equation.
• Bloodmoon: Fine with that too
• Call of the Pack: I'd add a buff to power for other werewolves in the area, not just a buff to the ult's duration. Werewolves are stronger as a pack and the game should offer us more incentives to being in a pack.
• Infectious Claws: And here is why I removed this ability from active! If your claws are infectious, they are infectious. Light and Heavy attacks in werewolf form apply a disease dot causing enemies to bleed (unable to stealth) and take Y damage for X seconds. Very good increase in DPS!

P.S. I'd really love to hear back from ZoS on this forum. You guys asked us for ideas, but we never hear back from you...

draeganb16_ESO

Grao wrote: »

You guys asked us for ideas, but we never hear back from you...

That not really true, they answer at page 10 about the progress of their work

Grao

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You guys asked us for ideas, but we never hear back from you...

That not really true, they answer at page 10 about the progress of their work

Damn... I missed that. SORRY ZoS!!

AegisWolf

Ladies and Gentlewolves,
I agree with Halorin, when he suggests that the Werewolf Transformation skill be treated like the Sorcerer's Overload ability.

Halorin wrote: »

I have a question, though. Have the developers considered making the transformation mechanic similar to the Sorcerer class' Overload? Where you have to meet a certain threshold of ultimate to activate, and the amount of ultimate you have lowers as you use it?

I think that would allow for a lot more control and strategy to turning into a werewolf.

I would like to add to this, that when we take damage in the werewolf form, instead of depleting our health, it takes a chunk out of the werewolf timer, which does not run down on it's own, though Devour resets it. This comes from the idea that werewolves are so brutally powerful and tough, the only way to defeat one is to wear it down, until it changes back to humanoid form, where it can then be killed. Resistances and armor would still apply, and should be greatly increased from normal, (doubled to tripled, I think, though ultimately that's a balance decision, but it has to be enough to last a couple minutes under heavy punishment) and poison damage and Fighters' Guild skills would still take a larger portion of health. Normal healing would not restore the werewolf meter, and would not effect you at all. Visually, it would appear as an overshield over the health bar, having, in much the same fashion as the emergency health bubbles dispensed by healers, and having a value of 100% of your max health.

Also, because the timer would no longer deplete on its own, Devour should once more become interruptable, to make that an exploitable weakness in PvP.

In short, where in Overload ultimate takes the place of magicka, in the Werewolf Transformation, it should take the place of health.

Because this would become a very powerful ultimate, I recommend setting the threshold back up to the 500-600 ultimate are, with the caveat that Blood Rage is still in effect, and that the bonus ultimate gain from Pack Leader has hopefully been added to Call of the Pack, meaning that a pack of werewolves is going to gain ultimate much faster.

This would have the added bonus of allowing the RPers to run around in fur all they want, more or less indefinitely. (Until such a time as trouble finds them, or vica versa)

I still stand by my suggestions in my earlier post, especially the suggestion that Pack Leader be turned into a tanking werewolf, and the current Pack Leader effects being added to the Call of the Pack passive.
In addition, I would suggest that the max target limit on the fear effects and, conversely, any taunts that come about from a hopeful remaking of Pack Leader, be removed, allowing them to affect as many targets as are in range.

As far as the comparison between werewolves' and vampires' passives goes, I would think that the lack of passives that effect us outside of the transformation is part of what makes it so awesome. We can't be transformed all the time, but when we are, we are outrageously powerful.

Happy Hunting

Iduyenn

@wraithazraiel:
Sorry, i just ment, that it could be useful to be in control of you turning back into WW. But i see, it`s something, that doesn`t matter. I would rather take the ultimate in WW form. The thing about gaining ultimate and transform into ww time could be outsourced to a passive.

@snowstorm02preub18_ESO

Like it, but dont forget, we are very vulnerable and usless, if we need time to devour and changing all the time. If we get interrupted (like present), you will not be able to dvour while in combat... Because a fly can interrupt you atm.
We need gapcloser and this stuff, because i hate it, to be kited, slowed and then nuked.
Altough it is something beautiful: In human form, when we get slapped in the face, we gain ultimate, in WW we loose time.
I would like it to have a timer, wich fills your time in WW, while not beeing attacked. (So your attacks gain ultimate/time). There should be a ballance...

About the healing. Logically with your post, your WW time will be up, if you lost 100% of your life. Your shielding proposition is cool, but i would also love it to see a "ww intern" healing. So you need other WW`s to heal you directly.

AegisWolf

Iduyenn wrote: »

@wraithazraiel:
Sorry, i just ment, that it could be useful to be in control of you turning back into WW. But i see, it`s something, that doesn`t matter. I would rather take the ultimate in WW form. The thing about gaining ultimate and transform into ww time could be outsourced to a passive.

@snowstorm02preub18_ESO

Like it, but dont forget, we are very vulnerable and usless, if we need time to devour and changing all the time. If we get interrupted (like present), you will not be able to dvour while in combat... Because a fly can interrupt you atm.
We need gapcloser and this stuff, because i hate it, to be kited, slowed and then nuked.
Altough it is something beautiful: In human form, when we get slapped in the face, we gain ultimate, in WW we loose time.
I would like it to have a timer, wich fills your time in WW, while not beeing attacked. (So your attacks gain ultimate/time). There should be a ballance...

About the healing. Logically with your post, your WW time will be up, if you lost 100% of your life. Your shielding proposition is cool, but i would also love it to see a "ww intern" healing. So you need other WW`s to heal you directly.

The inability to restore the timer short of an uninterruptible Devour is my suggestion to make the Werewolf Transformation balanced. If this turns out to be unnecessary, then the devs could make Devour uninterruptable and allow internal health regeneration and normal healing to restore werewolf time, though that's really up to the devs.

Alternately, an incoming damage cap could be implemented, like magma armor, except only on the werewolf.

draeganb16_ESO

@snowstorm02preub18_ESO : Your idea could be good for another game but not for a Elder Scrolls. This is not how the curse works, werewolves are not invincible while transformed. They are savage beast that can be, at best, uncontrolable but not unkillable.
The idea of draining your ulti over time while transformed was a good idea that a lot of people suggest but dev did a good thing similar to that : They kept the timer but gave more possiblities to get back timer (New unstoppable devour, new pack leader passive, maybe new morphed abilities that gives timer instead of just the costy feral pounce).
I hope this stuffs will help the idea that as long as a werewolf fights, he is a bloodthirsty beast. In my opinion, this is the more important thing about werewolf mechanic.

set44ub17_ESO1

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

set44ub17_ESO1 wrote: »

Werewolves should be imune to disease as a passive also. Agree on taking away the poison weakness as well. The negative could be when they ad the justice system that they generate a bounty or something if I'm werewolf form arround npc's

Why not adding an immunity to disease passive but the weakness to poison should stay, it is our Achilles' heel. As I see it, it represent our weakness to silver that is not present in TESO like other TES (Silver bolt from fighter's guild apart, it's a unique skill)

They are adding poison crafting to the game eventually it needs to go!

set44ub17_ESO1

Also they should just add a silver trait to weapons, added damage to daedra, undead, and wolves.

AegisWolf

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

@snowstorm02preub18_ESO : Your idea could be good for another game but not for a Elder Scrolls. This is not how the curse works, werewolves are not invincible while transformed. They are savage beast that can be, at best, uncontrolable but not unkillable.
The idea of draining your ulti over time while transformed was a good idea that a lot of people suggest but dev did a good thing similar to that : They kept the timer but gave more possiblities to get back timer (New unstoppable devour, new pack leader passive, maybe new morphed abilities that gives timer instead of just the costy feral pounce).
I hope this stuffs will help the idea that as long as a werewolf fights, he is a bloodthirsty beast. In my opinion, this is the more important thing about werewolf mechanic.

If you're arguing against the idea of werewolves only being killable in untransformed state on lore grounds, I can understand that, but I'll still argue for the implementation of the rest of my suggestions, especially the capping of max incoming damage (with the exception of Fighters' Guild skills and poison damage) a la Magma Armor.
I don't think werewolves shouldn't be coursing with bloodlust, just that they should be extraordinarily tough to go along with it.

draeganb16_ESO

@snowstorm02preub18_ESO : In the lore of Elder Scrolls, werewolves have a great strenght (might do heavy damages), a quick regeneration (High survivability...) and a thick leather (Good armor). Actually, we have none (maybe descent damage with dual weapons >.< ).
The idea of a magma armor skill or passive sounds good and should do the trick for the "thick leather" trait but hard to balance.

I can wait to try the new werewolf in the 1.5 to see if it will finally be playable in advanced combats like PvP or dungeons.

Athas24

I'd love it if my werewolf used those teeth of his in combat instead of just on corpses.

Enesse

I still await the glorious day when we can run on all fours.

Hypertionb14_ESO

At this point i have to say that i dont like the idea of toggled WW form anymore.

i would like the ability to not lose time in WW form when out of combat instead, or at least at a dramatically lowered rate.

GoodOrc

ok all this changes sounds great! And i'm glad o see you finali doing somthing to help WW return to the game, but I didnt want that this game become WW Vs Wamps! I'm a werewolf despite All thing is didnt work, cos its my RP part, I enjoy it! A segest to ad more negative thing to being not human (yes make WW and Wamp powerfull weapon bt do negative that ewery body choose)

1. Can you make that Ww and Wamp could not use Fighters gild abiliti? Its lalme that daedra and beast uses thear weapon! I alredy play whithout it and its fine ewen I' don't hawe powerfull WW (I hope not for long)

2.In Lore WW dont slip, or almoust dont sleep, but we forgot that Werewolf has Incredeble Hanger! WW must eat allot, becouse transform need energy! Do "-" buf to Food timer! - 50% so WW must eat at 2 times more aften! (and buy or craft more food) (you ewen can do -20% or -30% from food bufs( for example blu food will add 312- 25% = 234point to 2 stat!) Its explanation tha WW in lore feel hanger but can not fill emptines by eating normal food! (but WW still partli human and they can eat and must eat) based on this thought I SAGEST:

3.Wampires cold NOT EAT human food! They not humans enymore, they drink blood, but not eat! They coold not get benefits from it! (you can get from -50% to -100% from food stats what you say is balanced i will agre but do IT) Wamps is strong in the game and its fine, but I think Human must hawe their own benefits! And its food!
Wamp and WW can drink ALOOT

I think if you do some of this there will be a choice beetwen human WW and Wamp! choose what you licke more! More stats from food, new skills line from Wamp or Great transform i brutal beast!
I did my choice no meter what!

Thanks if you read this to the end and tipe what you think about my thoughts!

Hypertionb14_ESO

as i see it atm, WW needs just 4 things to become truely viable compaired to Vamp.

1. implement the Self heal, Either make it like Puncturing sweep, where you deal damage and heal for an amount of the damage, make it like Dragons Blood, or make it like a Healing version of Engulfing flames which can be toggled on and off and heals while active while draining stam.

2. Implement a immunity to disabling effects (stun, Disorent, lingering effects of knock backs). Give this Immunity to NPCs as well.

3. Make it so the Devour synergy is not as easily interrupt able, ideally only bashing or interrupting moves should stop it. the same way the NPC mobs have it.

4. make the WW timer at least 10x slower when not in combat. i would ideally like it to be stopped entirely, but slowed is enough.


only 1 of these things require new animation or programming that the players will have to consider... the others can just be added to the background effects.