Upcoming Werewolf Changes

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO

Eternalflame wrote: »

Castle wrote: »

Hello, everyone!
We wanted to let everyone know that we have read through this thread and taken steps to further improve the Werewolf Skill Line based on your feedback. You folks have made some great suggestions and offered some valuable insight into potential changes. Whenever possible, we've used suggestions in this thread as guidelines for improving what we had already put in place when we announced these changes.

That said, many suggestions you have made are not currently possible, although they may be in the future. The biggest of these is that the Werewolf Transformation will remain an Ultimate ability that has a duration, rather than being a Toggle. Making Werewolf into a toggle was the first improvement we wanted to make, but it ended up not being possible due to technical restrictions.

Additionally, we aren't currently adding any werewolf specific emotes or animations, nor are we adding more skins. It is possible we will add these in a future update.

We did make a few changes that make the "werewolf play style" more viable.

• “Negative” effects will no longer affect you while Transforming. No more wasted Ultimate because a Disorient hits you halfway through the Transformation!
• We've reduced the cooldown of Devour and made it so it is no longer Interrupted by taking damage. Additionally, it will be usable on a few more creature types.
• Being a Werewolf increases your Stamina, in either form.
• Using your Heavy Attack will restore Stamina, the same as Weapon Skill line Heavy Attacks.
• To go with that, we changed the Pursuit Passive so it increases the amount of Stamina restored with Heavy Attacks.
• The Pack Leader Morph will add to the "Werewolf" counter for the Werewolf and any Werewolf allies nearby instead of adding Ultimate.

We look forward to these changes hitting PTS and getting your Feedback soon

What are the technical limitations preventing you from making the ultimate a toggle rather than a duration?

I guess its the implementation of a toggle itself thats the problem. There are none ingame yet.

Anyway....what I still miss, is more time being a werewolf in the first place.

natewook

wow i'm just stunned.... i relay don't know what to say

HaljaNifheim

I guess its the implementation of a toggle itself thats the problem. There are none ingame yet.

Anyway....what I still miss, is more time being a werewolf in the first place.

What? The sorcerer Overload ultimate is a toggle on and off ability to name one.

draeganb16_ESO

@Castle : All those futur changes are just awesome ! You made my fur shiver !
Maybe, we'll see a bit more of our own in Cyrodiil with that CC immunity and added skills ^^
As a Pack leader, the new morph is just a blessing if it gives more time to the rampage. I'm a bit confuse as to the meaning of that :
-Does it give a max time buff to others ?
-Does it give time each time an allie hit or get hit ?
-Does it apply to the Pack leader himself ?

I must admit that the fact that we lost all our ultimate's points when we return to the "weak" human form is frustating. All other utlimate's skills generate ultimate and keep ultimate when ended (especially the OPswarm) but for us ? You get nothing ! Not even a percentage of the gain. What happened to the reward of the hunt ? Hircine would be ashamed

Enesse

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

I guess its the implementation of a toggle itself thats the problem. There are none ingame yet.

Anyway....what I still miss, is more time being a werewolf in the first place.

But, Magelight, Siphoning Weapons and Overload are a few toggles ingame.

Castle wrote: »

Hello, everyone!
We wanted to let everyone know that we have read through this thread and taken steps to further improve the Werewolf Skill Line based on your feedback. You folks have made some great suggestions and offered some valuable insight into potential changes. Whenever possible, we've used suggestions in this thread as guidelines for improving what we had already put in place when we announced these changes.

That said, many suggestions you have made are not currently possible, although they may be in the future. The biggest of these is that the Werewolf Transformation will remain an Ultimate ability that has a duration, rather than being a Toggle. Making Werewolf into a toggle was the first improvement we wanted to make, but it ended up not being possible due to technical restrictions.

Additionally, we aren't currently adding any werewolf specific emotes or animations, nor are we adding more skins. It is possible we will add these in a future update.

We did make a few changes that make the "werewolf play style" more viable.

• “Negative” effects will no longer affect you while Transforming. No more wasted Ultimate because a Disorient hits you halfway through the Transformation!
• We've reduced the cooldown of Devour and made it so it is no longer Interrupted by taking damage. Additionally, it will be usable on a few more creature types.
• Being a Werewolf increases your Stamina, in either form.
• Using your Heavy Attack will restore Stamina, the same as Weapon Skill line Heavy Attacks.
• To go with that, we changed the Pursuit Passive so it increases the amount of Stamina restored with Heavy Attacks.
• The Pack Leader Morph will add to the "Werewolf" counter for the Werewolf and any Werewolf allies nearby instead of adding Ultimate.

We look forward to these changes hitting PTS and getting your Feedback soon

Amazing changes, thank you!

bbqwolf13b14_ESO1

Looks like they are not fixing the werewolf. so things look ok not great. its still a 15 point ULTIMATE. but will be changing to a 21 point after we get just 3 more skills in the tree and 23 if werewolf gets its own ultimate. What a waste of points if we cant toggle. Impossible to implement? HUH there are tons of buttons on my keyboard and/or button combo's on a game controller that are not being used. Place a buff button on screen that shows when we can wolf out and we hit a button.. poof fixed. So they are still going with the weapon damage to base attacks for werewolf. why? It should be just stamina. As someone said werewolf is its own weapon. Vamp is magic, werewolf stamina not that hard to understand. That would give stamina an actual use in the game. Please ZOS rethink and relook at this.

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO

jimbo96preub18_ESO wrote: »

I guess its the implementation of a toggle itself thats the problem. There are none ingame yet.

Anyway....what I still miss, is more time being a werewolf in the first place.

What? The sorcerer Overload ultimate is a toggle on and off ability to name one.

These toggles don't switch your entire hotbar. So they are not equal.

natewook

Thanks for paying close attention to my posts and for the responding in detail teso team. But i have a question if you are not going to condenser adding any of the werewolf rp ideas in the next werewolf update then when? a separate discussion for upcoming werewolf rp ideas would be great.

Thejollygreenone

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

jimbo96preub18_ESO wrote: »

I guess its the implementation of a toggle itself thats the problem. There are none ingame yet.

Anyway....what I still miss, is more time being a werewolf in the first place.

What? The sorcerer Overload ultimate is a toggle on and off ability to name one.

These toggles don't switch your entire hotbar. So they are not equal.

But.... Overload does switch your entire hotbar....

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

jimbo96preub18_ESO wrote: »

I guess its the implementation of a toggle itself thats the problem. There are none ingame yet.

Anyway....what I still miss, is more time being a werewolf in the first place.

What? The sorcerer Overload ultimate is a toggle on and off ability to name one.

These toggles don't switch your entire hotbar. So they are not equal.

But.... Overload does switch your entire hotbar....

Sorry, I did not know that.

apagano425

I don't believe that the werewolf skill line should have any out-of-form buffs because the whole point of being a werewolf is to be massively powerful when transformed. This keeps a huge distance between werewolf and vamp play style and keeps an opposite feel between the two which is great in my opinion. Having a weakness to poison is no big deal because it is rare and resistance to it is based off of armor instead of spell resistance, and since werewolf form increases armor, this debuff is made less relevant. Vamps, on the other hand, have weakness to fire which is much more popular especially since DKs are centered around fire damage, and vamps have less health regen if they don't feed. Therefore vamp passives are necessary to keep their debuffs balanced. After update 5 becomes live werewolves will truly become a much more fearsome force and I can't wait to try it out.

apagano425

If the drain Ult mechanic, like overload, was implemented for werewolf then the AOE fear from transformation would absolutely have to be taken out and I would actually prefer a lower cost Ult with AOE fear then a toggle-drain Ult without fear.

apagano425

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

jimbo96preub18_ESO wrote: »

I guess its the implementation of a toggle itself thats the problem. There are none ingame yet.

Anyway....what I still miss, is more time being a werewolf in the first place.

What? The sorcerer Overload ultimate is a toggle on and off ability to name one.

These toggles don't switch your entire hotbar. So they are not equal.

But.... Overload does switch your entire hotbar....

Funny exploit I found while going through Hircines ritual. If you toggle overload before Hircine transforms you then you will still have your normal hotbar skills while in werewolf form, much help while completing this quest at a low lvl.

nicedragon

Castle wrote: »

Hello, everyone!
We wanted to let everyone know that we have read through this thread and taken steps to further improve the Werewolf Skill Line based on your feedback. You folks have made some great suggestions and offered some valuable insight into potential changes. Whenever possible, we've used suggestions in this thread as guidelines for improving what we had already put in place when we announced these changes.

That said, many suggestions you have made are not currently possible, although they may be in the future. The biggest of these is that the Werewolf Transformation will remain an Ultimate ability that has a duration, rather than being a Toggle. Making Werewolf into a toggle was the first improvement we wanted to make, but it ended up not being possible due to technical restrictions.

Additionally, we aren't currently adding any werewolf specific emotes or animations, nor are we adding more skins. It is possible we will add these in a future update.

We did make a few changes that make the "werewolf play style" more viable.

• “Negative” effects will no longer affect you while Transforming. No more wasted Ultimate because a Disorient hits you halfway through the Transformation!
• We've reduced the cooldown of Devour and made it so it is no longer Interrupted by taking damage. Additionally, it will be usable on a few more creature types.
• Being a Werewolf increases your Stamina, in either form.
• Using your Heavy Attack will restore Stamina, the same as Weapon Skill line Heavy Attacks.
• To go with that, we changed the Pursuit Passive so it increases the amount of Stamina restored with Heavy Attacks.
• The Pack Leader Morph will add to the "Werewolf" counter for the Werewolf and any Werewolf allies nearby instead of adding Ultimate.

We look forward to these changes hitting PTS and getting your Feedback soon

Not possible due to technical restrictions... I think it is only part of true. I think there was restriction but not technical. You could do it "toggle" or almost toggle in many ways if you want eg:
By adding skill for regenerating time to maximum as morph to self heal skill. Works almost like devour but without prey and add feeling that YOU control werewolf form, not environment.

But here was not enough "good will" (or money, idk).

Xnemesis

I would like to see it act like a transform when you hit 45% health. It could be activated with x like a synergy and gives you the ability bar that way. when transforming you would gain 30% health and an flat increase to dmg mitigation. You would have full access to your wolf abilities and an ultimate that can either summon wolves to help and or increase the duration of transformation. I would also like to see all the buffs act like emp buffs, for example, they would give a bonus while in human form but amplified tremendously while in wolf form. That's my 2 cents and I am sure it leaves plenty to build on. any other ideas what yall think?

apagano425

Xnemesis wrote: »

I would like to see it act like a transform when you hit 45% health. It could be activated with x like a synergy and gives you the ability bar that way. when transforming you would gain 30% health and an flat increase to dmg mitigation. You would have full access to your wolf abilities and an ultimate that can either summon wolves to help and or increase the duration of transformation. I would also like to see all the buffs act like emp buffs, for example, they would give a bonus while in human form but amplified tremendously while in wolf form. That's my 2 cents and I am sure it leaves plenty to build on. any other ideas what yall think?

If it activates below 45% health then it would need a crazy cooldown that would get really annoying quickly

Xnemesis

apagano425 wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

I would like to see it act like a transform when you hit 45% health. It could be activated with x like a synergy and gives you the ability bar that way. when transforming you would gain 30% health and an flat increase to dmg mitigation. You would have full access to your wolf abilities and an ultimate that can either summon wolves to help and or increase the duration of transformation. I would also like to see all the buffs act like emp buffs, for example, they would give a bonus while in human form but amplified tremendously while in wolf form. That's my 2 cents and I am sure it leaves plenty to build on. any other ideas what yall think?

If it activates below 45% health then it would need a crazy cooldown that would get really annoying quickly

not sure I follow. It would only activate once and for obvious reasons you don't have to press x to transform if you don't want to. I just like the idea of being able to keep a regular ult slotted while im a human and having the werewolf set stuff while im a wolf. Obviously they would have to test to find out the best percentage of health to have it proc 45% was just a random number.

I see it like this if you are infected then you should still recieve the buffs and have the option to turn regardless of what ultimate you have slotted. Its not as if not having the transform ult slotted randomly cures you right?

Halorin

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

I guess its the implementation of a toggle itself thats the problem. There are none ingame yet.

Anyway....what I still miss, is more time being a werewolf in the first place.

Not true. Overload, the Sorcerer Storm Summoning ultimate, is a toggle that lowers your ultimate as you use it. So it's definitely possible to have a toggled Ultimate.

I'm personally disappointed by the proposed changes. Maybe if Stamina becomes more viable an statistic to use it could help, but a lack of CC and durability will still plague werewolves, leaving human form synergies to be the more effective solution in almost every case.

The WW ultimate should be a toggle, and I'd be curious to know why Overload can be a toggle but Werewolf transformations can't be.

Iduyenn

The solution proposed from Zenimax is not bad. You can earn more time in WW by simply gather Ultimate. And this is possible!

I know, on the other hand: No benefit for RP.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit-day2/

Let`s talk about Guild summit. I am a bit disappointed nobody mentioned the WW.
But with the changing of the system (Aka: no softcaps, 20k life @lvl 50 etc) the potential of WW changes!

/discuss
/what do we need, to be useful then?

apagano425

I feel like I'd be able to stay in werewolf form for much longer the way it is now by feeding than I would by draining ultimate from a toggled state like overload. If the werewolf form were to be a toggle then there would be a hard cap as to how long I would be able to be a werewolf, as of now though, I'm able to stay in form for theoretically forever.

Davadin

Iduyenn wrote: »

The solution proposed from Zenimax is not bad. You can earn more time in WW by simply gather Ultimate. And this is possible!

I know, on the other hand: No benefit for RP.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit-day2/

Let`s talk about Guild summit. I am a bit disappointed nobody mentioned the WW.
But with the changing of the system (Aka: no softcaps, 20k life @lvl 50 etc) the potential of WW changes!

/discuss
/what do we need, to be useful then?

Until WW brings passive to non-transformed (ie. still able to use regular skill) form, no buff can push this anywhere close to vampire.

draeganb16_ESO

Davadin wrote: »

Until WW brings passive to non-transformed (ie. still able to use regular skill) form, no buff can push this anywhere close to vampire.

And who told that all werewolves want to be like those ugly pale faces ? When in "human" form, we are almost like...human but when we are in werewolf form, we are(should be) much stronger. I agree that at the moment, were are not...
Werewolf are NOT like vampire, it's not like twilight, we have a form that we can have temporally and not as will. It is the nature of the werewolf to be like this, the thrill of the hunt only touch the one who deserved it !
By making the "human" form buffed like you want, the game should be renamed : The Elder Curses : Online. Nobody would be human anymore.
It is honorable to fight for the effectiveness of the werewolf but think about the overall balance of the game. (Dev's are working slowly on that but working)

Davadin

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Until WW brings passive to non-transformed (ie. still able to use regular skill) form, no buff can push this anywhere close to vampire.

And who told that all werewolves want to be like those ugly pale faces ? When in "human" form, we are almost like...human but when we are in werewolf form, we are(should be) much stronger. I agree that at the moment, were are not...
Werewolf are NOT like vampire, it's not like twilight, we have a form that we can have temporally and not as will. It is the nature of the werewolf to be like this, the thrill of the hunt only touch the one who deserved it !
By making the "human" form buffed like you want, the game should be renamed : The Elder Curses : Online. Nobody would be human anymore.
It is honorable to fight for the effectiveness of the werewolf but think about the overall balance of the game. (Dev's are working slowly on that but working)

Doesn't change the fact that mechanically in-game, Vampires are superior as regular normal skills is still better than the WW's wolf form skills...
Vamps on the other hand, enhances those normal skills even further.

Ever wonder why WW are rarely seen in PvP? (While at least half of them are vampires) Because they blow up too easily. (on top of the fact you can spot one a mile away). There's no comparison on effectiveness in end-game content, both PvP and PvE.

My take is, there are 2 ways to fix WW in this MMO game:
1. Add passives that work in human mode, not a lot, but comparable to vamps. Note that we STILL have the 50% damage to poison/fire which is HUGE balancing drawbacks, so it won't becomes The Elder Curses Online...
2. Buff WW active skills so that it's not just comparable, but GREATER than regular standard skill to give incentives to transform.

Either those 2, or simply get rid of vampires and werewolves in this game. It's great novelties but really, Vamps is BREAKING the game (i'm surprised the game hasn't been renamed The Elder Vampires: Online") and WW is just not lucrative enough (other than RP).

Sad, really.

PS: I was lv10 WW and recently switched to Vamps and just hit LV10 too. There is no comparison on which one I'm keeping.

set44ub17_ESO1

They should take out the poison weakness. It's not as powerful as vampire so take away the negative. When justice system comes just make it generate bounty points if near npc's

apagano425

They should simply and only fix werewolf for so that it is undoubtedly the most powerful ultimate by far, the leep is a complete joke because of the damage it does and the immense cost, who in the world decided that this was plenty of damage that well represented the fearsome werewolf beast. Seriously who was working that day? ZOS is headed in the right direction with fixing werewolves by making them stronger in form, but I want them to stay away from making werewolves the same as vamps (except with stamina), by making out-of-form passives. Also, I don't believe that vamps are superior the way I see it a vamp is simply another class you have to prepare for. Yes, imagine that you are playing an MMO with more than 4 classes, instead you are playing an MMO with 4 x 2 classes because any one of them could be a vamp and then again 8 + 8 because any of the four base classes could also be a werewolf. There are 16 classes that you have to prepare for, and if you know basically what a vamp build looks like then you can counter it and make them look squishy as ***.

draeganb16_ESO

apagano425 wrote: »

They should simply and only fix werewolf for so that it is undoubtedly the most powerful ultimate by far, the leep is a complete joke because of the damage it does and the immense cost, who in the world decided that this was plenty of damage that well represented the fearsome werewolf beast. Seriously who was working that day? ZOS i headed in the right direction with fixing werewolves by making them stronger in form, but I want them to stay away from making werewolves the same as vamps (except with stamina), by making out-of-form passives. Also, I don't believe that vamps are superior the way I see it a vamp is simply another class you have to prepare for. Yes imagine that you are playing an MMO with more then 4 classes, instead you are playing an MMO with 4 x 2 classes because any one of them could be a vamp and then again 8 + 8 because any of the four base classes could also be a werewolf. There are 16 classes that you have to prepare for, and if you know basically what a vamp build looks like then you can counter it and make them look squishy as ***.

You, sir, are right and you resume what I said before, we don't want a vampire's like curse. Non-cursed player will have be prepared to fight two differents curses on the battlefield and maybe, one day, they'll enjoy fighting both curse and not only vampires

WraithAzraiel

Another idea - turn the Transform Ultimate into an actual useable ultimate while in werewolf form.
- like a health draining bite called Feral Bite
- or a heavy frontal cone cleave swipe attack that knock's the enemy down and disorients called Maul or something
- have it cost a chunk of the timer or if you end up going the path of the Overload skill, a chunk of Ultimate.

Sound good?

Iduyenn

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Another idea - turn the Transform Ultimate into an actual useable ultimate while in werewolf form.
- like a health draining bite called Feral Bite
- or a heavy frontal cone cleave swipe attack that knock's the enemy down and disorients called Maul or something
- have it cost a chunk of the timer or if you end up going the path of the Overload skill, a chunk of Ultimate.

Sound good?

Problem: What, if you want to change back? (e.g for healing, ranged...)

I like the Idea of Packleader gaining ultimate transformed in to more WW time for ALL WW`s!
Becaue it supports the idea of WW playing as a pack. If you have enugh surviability and selfheal, it would be nice to be able to play without a healer and a tank.
Perhaps, with spellcrafting, this could be posible. (Your roar mutate to an aoe spot spell).

So either we have some very strong ultimate-passives, or some very good ultimate actives. I wouldn`t mind, to see WW transformation in Slot 1-5 (Or a total separate slot... that would be fair).

With spellcrafting everything gets interesting, because i could morph my templar healskills into WW roar so it would scale from stamina and cost stamina.

So the big question is, if WW can benefit from spellcrafting. If yes, we have great potential, if not, we are screwed...

AegisWolf

First off, make Devour completely reset the werewolf timer, so that with an ample supply of fallen foes, the werewolf transformation can be maintained indefinitely. This would not make it less difficult to have an extended rampage in PvP, where bodies are fewer and farther between, and cannot be looted, and thus disappear quickly.

Secondly, condense both levels of Call of the Pack to it's first level, and increase it a bit. You should see the timer drop tangibly slower when you're running with two or three other werewolves. Relegate the ultimate gain buff from Pack Leader to the second level of Call of the Pack.

Third, make Pack Leader a tanking werewolf, with the fear effects (from both Transformation and Roar) inverted into a multi-target fifteen second taunt, and greatly increased spell resistance and armor, even measured against the other two werewolf variants.

Fourth, make light attacks and heavy attacks strike multiple targets, a la Forceful from the Two-Handed tree. (I think heavy attacks already do, but I'm not sure)

Fifth, make the Hide of the Savior armor set available at a crafting place reachable by all werewolves, and only werewolves, with a weapon power increase in place of the max stamina increase, if you do change the werewolf attack power to be based off of weapon power instead of max stamina. (Make a similar one for vampires)

Sixth, make Pounce a bit more powerful. It, and its morphs are kind of underwhelming in their current state, for their stamina cost.

Seventh, increase the time after Ferocious Roar is used that killing an affected enemy causes another roar to ten-fifteen seconds.

Eighth, this Infectious Claws skill would be awesome if it defaulted to disease, but changed it's damage type, name, and appearance based on the enchantment (if any) present in your main-hand weapon. Even if not based off of enchantment, (there are a lot of enchantments!) I'd still like to see some other options besides disease damage, such as unresistable damage.

Ninth, and this is a bit more vague than my other ideas, I'd like to see, with the emphasis in lore on the toughness, resistance, and resilience of a werewolf's hide, I'd like to see all werewolves, across the board, made a bit tougher, to the point where Fighter's Guild skills and poison damage, instead of doing extra damage, are just not resisted as much. However, these damage types should still do extra damage to our human form.

Tenth, an increase to weapon power should be worked into the Blood Rage passive, so that as we take damage, we get a slight boost to weapon power, both transformed and untransformed, while Savage Strength is eliminated as a passive, just adding the extra damage into the base Werewolf damage.

Finally, cosmetically, make the Werewolf Berserkers black, and make Lycanthrope Gray dye shiny, more silvery, so it will glow in the moonlight. At present it's just kind of disappointing.

draeganb16_ESO

@snowstorm02preub18_ESO : I like your suggestions, particularly the one about the attacks that hits multiple targets in front of us and the new call of the pack ability.
If DEV have already played werewolf, they'll found obvivous that the pounce is only usefull with the feral morph as it give 4 seconds timer. This ability does so little damage... even with the other morph. Everytime I pounce, it feels like I'm jumping to give a sweet and tiring hug to the enemy... "Come pet the big ball of fur coming from the air !"