Provisioning Revamp

KiriX

One question: when?

AlyennahsCrafting

Other than a reduction in ingredients and therefore less space needed to hold all ingredients as well as the possibility of combining the effects of both food and drink, I don't really see the advantage. There is a website which lists all ingredients and I've used it to check which ingredients are worth collecting for high level recipes. You don't need to keep all the low level ingredients around, I just do so just in case as I have enough alts anyway (I am much more bothered by the amount if effort in sorting and not having enough bank space due to it being so costly). The WYSIWYG idea is something that makes sense, but only if it were implemented from the start, in and of itself it is no reason for an overhaul. As for categorizing ingredients and giving each category a certain effect, the same applies. To me, there is no obvious advantage, but I do see some disadvantages.

I have a crafting character which has learned quite a large amount of recipes, even purple vr recipes, already and if all those recipes are suddenly useless, I would need to start searching for them again from scratch. I could've gotten quite a bit of gold for the purple ones. I found all of mine, but some people must have spent a fortune to get them, so they will have wasted time and effort if all of the current recipes just disappear, with nothing in return, which would be my main problem with this proposal. If there is some sort of compensation for ingredients in your inventory planned, then how about compensation for those lost recipes? Would it be possible to automatically grant all the equivalent new recipes for the ones already learned? Or for recipes in your inventory? In fact, that might be a better idea than making the old ingredients worth x amount of money, just replace them and the recipes learned and in inventory, in kind. But I don't know if that is too difficult to implement. An overhaul like this should not be done if it leaves at least some people feeling like they wasted their time on something that no longer exists.

But if something like this is in the works, why not do away with the recipes altogether, and just make provisioning more like alchemy or enchanting? IE, just throw ingredients together, see what does what and what sticks? Just like if you did that in real life, many will result in culinary disasters, some will result in gastronomic delight, while others will be at least edible. Or, if recipes remain, add legendary recipes, which could give a new effect or just be even stronger than the purple ones even if in just one of the three attributes. In other words, if you're going to do something like this, take full advantage of it and create something that makes it really worth it to change something that's been in the game from the beginning. Create something that is not just different, but obviously far superior. Judging by this, I am not seeing this.

On a final not, I hadn't even seen this before, despite this having been posted back in july. I don't know what the status of this is either, I haven't got the time to read through the whole thread. I think a proposal like this deserves to be highlighted, because I think I'm not the only one who's invested time and effort into provisioning who hasn't heard of this before today. That being said, I commend you on trying to get community feedback on a proposal like this.

GTech_1

Adrah wrote: »

Would it be possible to automatically grant all the equivalent new recipes for the ones already learned?

Gina Already answered this one in the OP. Here's the quote:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible.

... why not do away with the recipes altogether, and just make provisioning more like alchemy or enchanting? IE, just throw ingredients together, see what does what and what sticks? Just like if you did that in real life, many will result in culinary disasters, some will result in gastronomic delight, while others will be at least edible.

I absolutely agree with this, but many would be very upset if they lost their recipes. However ... if you add in some "beneficial" side effects to "disaster food" ... like temporarily being turned into an orc, or burping green bubbles for 30 minutes ... then you've got a recipe for a winner! :agree:

Or, if recipes remain, add legendary recipes, which could give a new effect or just be even stronger than the purple ones even if in just one of the three attributes. In other words, if you're going to do something like this, take full advantage of it and create something that makes it really worth it to change something that's been in the game from the beginning. Create something that is not just different, but obviously far superior.

I like your previous idea better, but having a way to create Legendary food and drink would be great as well. The full system should be used, not just a small bit of it.

LonePirate

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you confirm or deny if these changes are in the 1.5 update coming soon to the PTS?

GAULSTON7

Please make looted recipe levels by zone/area rather than by character level...some of us leveled all of our 8 characters quickly and were unable to get all those hard to find/rare low level recipes. Irritating that I have to go zone to zone hunting at guild vendors to find the rare ones being sold for extortionate gold prices because 1 player has a monopoly on the a particular rare recipe. While I sleep/work (RL), another player goes to all the guild vendors and gobbles up the rares, and resells them for ridiculous prices, thus creating a monopoly. I have yet to find any green recipes of "saltrice slurry", "grilled worms", "worm tart", or a "wriggles-in-gut" to name a few. Silly that players need to keep a character at a certain level to loot an area/zone til they get all their missing green recipes.

SpAEkus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌,

Is the change expected to also affect existing food and beverages that have already been crafted?

If so can we please have as much notice ahead of time so that we can modify our current crafting and current inventories to match the expected changes?

Other than immediate needs I would be tempted to not craft food or beverages at all until we start to see detailed change data.

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO

Apologize if this has been posted / discussed before, but just a suggestion for the superior (blue) and as well if not more so for the legendary (purple) recipes.

Make these give the same amount for their respective "base" fine recipes, so that one food/drink recipe that is associated e.g. with health would give the same numerical health improvement for all types, but a lesser value for the next type in line.

Especially for the epic types this would distinguish the different types and one could pick out, if so inclined, which would be more suitable (health, stamina, magicka)

Furthermore, this could also enable a bit of more recipe variety for the superior recipes, as that would open the way to health + stamina, health + magicka, if not even a health variety, making these more useful to the casual connoisseur of food and drink.

TheOubliette

How about we get a new bag for crafting items. Sorry but as a provisioner, my bank is FULL of ingredients and many are on my person as well, and I don't mean duplicates. I don't understand why most professions have 10ish levels of item type and provisioning has well over 150 items types.

How about, you don't overhaul the system so much as provide us with a larder bag for food ingredients that can hold at least one stack of each type of these things. Even if you "halve the number of ingredients" I'm still baffled how that's equitable with most other professions.

I like the crafting complexity but, you limit bag and bank space unless we're rather rich and some of us who do not guild much or are more solo oriented, rarely are.

I'd love to see some of the recipes make more sense, like needed honey for Mead, instead of grapes for example (there's a no-brainer), and perhaps we could have sheep drop mutton (and such) so that hunting ingredients can be less a case of robbing the inn of their supplies and more seeking things out. Need honey? Find a bee's nest. Need cheese? Talk to a cheese monger. Etc.

All of this would make this more interactive and wouldn't it be nice to occasionally get an incredibly rare ingredient of exceptional quality that could make one use (or whatever depending on your chefing/brewing skill) that might make an epic food variant, like "Tupelo Honey" or "Robust Broth".

Frankly, rare finds like this would make all the professions quite a bit cooler, though, the others already have ways to upgrade crafting, but food seems to lack a way to make Gold/Epic level foods and I do not feel that making it a recipe is the way to do it, so that one bloke or lady can corner the market on that stuff and charge a fortune. Make it a random drop, make it rare, make it a fun surprise.

There's my two cents on the matter, as a provisioner.

ghengis_dhan

How about add a new passive to the Provisioning skill line that requires level 50. When taken, you receive benefits from both food and drink at the same time.

You will see most higher-level players drop everything and start baking and brewing like a mad nix hound.

khele23eb17_ESO

Hm... arent vegetables a bit rare compared to meat or fruit?

Romo

ghengis_dhan wrote: »

How about add a new passive to the Provisioning skill line that requires level 50. When taken, you receive benefits from both food and drink at the same time.

You will see most higher-level players drop everything and start baking and brewing like a mad nix hound.

seems a tad unneeded with this comment from the CR:

"The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur"

Lizardo

Could you also make it so that it's not impossible to lvl provisioning if you skipped doing it until max lvl.
As it stands now, I can't get any low lvl main ingredients from containers. Even lowest level zones drop veteran level ingredients for me.

ZOS_MandiParker

Lizardo wrote: »

Could you also make it so that it's not impossible to lvl provisioning if you skipped doing it until max lvl.
As it stands now, I can't get any low lvl main ingredients from containers. Even lowest level zones drop veteran level ingredients for me.

One of the goals of the provisioning revamp is to make it easier to level if you waited for a while to begin crafting.

Another goal is to free up some inventory space.

Divinius

ZOS_MandiParker wrote: »

One of the goals of the provisioning revamp is to make it easier to level if you waited for a while to begin crafting.

Another goal is to free up some inventory space.

All you need to do to make it easier to level is allow low level recipes and ingredients to be lootable from containers in lower level areas. The main problem right now is that the recipes you get are scaled to your level, regardless of where you get them from. This is the only part that's broken.

As for freeing up inventory space, see my post back on page 14.

Briarbrush

Please do not remove all the recipes. Collecting recipes is fun for some players. Leveling can be made easier simply by scaling the recipes and ingredients looted to the zone rather than the player, as has been stated many times.

With regard to the massive amount of ingredients, there is no reason for a player to keep all the various ingredients around from a game-play standpoint. Only current level ingredients are needed for the most part. If you included on the tool tip which level food the ingredients as used in then, players could destroy the ones they no longer need without having to consult an out of game database.

Romo

Lizardo wrote: »

Could you also make it so that it's not impossible to lvl provisioning if you skipped doing it until max lvl.
As it stands now, I can't get any low lvl main ingredients from containers. Even lowest level zones drop veteran level ingredients for me.

Not specifically directed at you, but at all the people who seem to have ignored Provisioning as they apparently rushed to level....

I was level 50 provisioning at Level 8 way before I out leveled Auridon, all you have to do is make an Alt and settle in to level provisioning...

I would much rather keep the provisioning mats as currently set-up, at your level not the zone level.

But the game seems to now cater to the the "rush to end game crew", rather than us slow levelers, who are smelling the roses as we go. So you will probably get your way... sigh.

Rune_Relic

Romo wrote: »

Lizardo wrote: »

Could you also make it so that it's not impossible to lvl provisioning if you skipped doing it until max lvl.
As it stands now, I can't get any low lvl main ingredients from containers. Even lowest level zones drop veteran level ingredients for me.

Not specifically directed at you, but at all the people who seem to have ignored Provisioning as they apparently rushed to level....

I was level 50 provisioning at Level 8 way before I out leveled Auridon, all you have to do is make an Alt and settle in to level provisioning...

I would much rather keep the provisioning mats as currently set-up, at your level not the zone level.

But the game seems to now cater to the the "rush to end game crew", rather than us slow levelers, who are smelling the roses as we go. So you will probably get your way... sigh.

That's a rather shortsighted view.
I myself invested in woodworking, metalworking, clothing on 1 character.
I just managed to keep my toon effective with the amount of skill points required for combat too.

There is absolutely no way I could have invested points in provisions, alchemy and enchanting as well. SO THEY WERE LEFT UNTIL LAST. When I actually have some skill point to spare and invest in.

So no....I am not one of the "rush to end-game crew" as you put it.

neiljwd

@ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else who may have spotted an answer in the last 15 pages...

I have a LOT of provisioning mats, If make top end purple food now, will that be sensible - or will these changes makes some recipes much easier/better in the future?

Basically I'd just like some reassurance that a decision I make now, isn't going to come back and bite my ass in the future through no fault of my own. When are the changes provisionally (lol pun) expected to go live?

spoqster

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ will the old mats be transformed into the new or will they be discarded?

Romo

spoqster wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ will the old mats be transformed into the new or will they be discarded?

Some will, some won't seems to be the approach.

From the OP:

"Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value."

spoqster

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

I guess one of the simplest ways would be to map multiple ingredients onto one. Example: Turn all pork, mudcrab meat and beef into the new rabbit ingredient. (Just using random names here)

This way no additional mechanism will be required and players will have the exact same number of mats after the update compared to before, just fewer different items.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re considering a significant revamp of Provisioning, and we’d like to get your feedback on it. Our goals with this proposed change are to improve the experience of collecting ingredients, to get away from the idea of tiered components, and to make brewing more useful. In a nutshell, we want to allow you to utilize every basic foodstuff you see in the game with cooking.

Ingredients

• Cooking: What You See Is What You Get
  • You see grapes, you get grapes. You see cheese, you get cheese. No more clicking on a sack of green beans and getting aged meat.
• Brewing: Based on container type (barrels, sacks, and crates)
  • Brewing ingredients will be broken up by closed container type to keep them useful and to avoid overlap with cooking.

Functionality

• Food and drink categories will have clearer usage
  • Cooking: Meat = health, fruit = magicka, vegetables = stamina
  • Brewing: Alcohol = health, tea = magicka, tonic = stamina
• Combination recipes will be rarer, require more ingredients, and give multiple benefits as expected
  • Example: Rabbit (meat) and carrots (vegetable) may be combined if you have the Rabbit Stew recipe, and the result provides both a health and stamina pool increase (somewhat less than what a pure health or pure stamina food would provide, as in the current system).
• The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half while still providing just as many recipes as we have now (if not more). This will require most, if not all, of the existing recipes to be changed to accommodate this new paradigm.

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

We realize this is a major change and that many of you have invested heavily in leveling up Provisioning and collecting recipes, so we wanted to get your feedback before proceeding. We feel this would be a major improvement to the game and want to hear your thoughts on the matter!

*89* "Awesome's" 'nough said.

SoulScream

Has anything changed since July? I read this and thought wow cool and figured it would be here by now, four months later.

Ashtaris

It sure doesn't seem like they are any hurry to roll this out, that's for sure.

Divinius

Ashtaris wrote: »

It sure doesn't seem like they are any hurry to roll this out, that's for sure.

Fine by me. Given how badly they've broken everything else they tried to "revamp", I really don't even want them trying to implement these proposed changes.

Make Food and Drink stack, and then go to your corner and don't touch anything else please.

randolphbenoit

Can we use FISH we catch (fishing) to make fishsticks? or smoked fish?
Potato+Tomato+Fishsticks=Fish n Chips!

berries - jams, pies, wine, fruit drinks

Why sheep not drop wool?... wool - style trait for commoner/shriven clothing
Sheep drop mutton - mutton stew

basically like see more realistic reasoning to cooking

JoeCapricorn

I would hope that those who have invested money or time to learn purple Vet 5 recipes would still have a foot in the door when this new system is rolled out.

What I'm saying is, the recipes a character knows at present are converted to their equivalent recipes in the new system.

For example, Sweetrolls - Vet 5 health buff food. Though it is a safe bet that sweetrolls will continue to exist after the new system is implemented it might be changed. So, if the vet 5 health buff food in the new system is something different like Pancakes (for example), I think the recipes a character knows for Sweetrolls should be converted to Pancakes.

So if a character had Consummate Sweetrolls known, that recipe is magically changed to Consummate Pancakes and the character does not lose any knowledge.

Because if we have to go hunting for purple recipes all over again I have a few choice words for that and they all start with the letter F.

UndeadBlood

This can't come soon enough. I love provisioning, but my inventory doesn't.

Atarax

Yeah, looking forward to these changes. I have 100+ slots on my main taken up by provisioning mats at the moment. Can't wait for the changes so I know what to keep, what to toss, and what to make into what food.

1.6?

Anazasi

Best idea is to be able to use both at the same time. Don't really care how you get that point but its the necessary move.