Provisioning Revamp

jvh808

If the process of degradation on the provisioning items, whether it be to the materials or the drink/food itself, is implemented then it should also be done so to the crafted and dropped gear. This is not a horrible system by any means either. It actually helps to stabilize the in game economy and make those countless hours of crafting, research and recipe hunting more rewarding. Unfortunately most people are too close minded and/or are instant gratification players who are playing a game designed for anything but that idea. Armor and drink/food degradation will add something like a checks and balance system to the game.

Another thing you could look at is prevention of degrading... You have salt in the game and salt was originally used to store foods for longer periods of time before we developed our lovely refrigerators and freezers. Why not simply implement a process of adding salt to a food item to prolong it and a maybe a seltzer or something similar to prolong drinks?

Additionally, to prolong armor degradation, a great process would be to 'fuse', say, 1/4 of the original material cost (metal, wood, cloth, leather) to make the item as well as 1/4 of the cost in quality materials (temper, rosin, wax) to restore the armor to a new status. These abilities should however only be available to "Master Crafter" who is 50 in skill, has the correct skill points allocated, and has an item needed to perform the task.

I hate to take anything at all from WoW, but the idea of the Enchanter's Rod would apply best here. However, it should be acquired through a process of both the craft skill and a quest line for each tradeskill. So, having a white repair hammer would allow the repair of white blacksmithing items only. Increasing its rarity to green, blue, purple and yellow should be done through a combination o an 'epic' quest line similar to that of mage and fighter's guild and through that players own crafting (not able to purchase necessary crafted items from another). The repair hammer would be only usable to blacksmithing items, a sewing needle or similar for clothing, and a planing tool for woodworking. Also, once multiple items are acquired we could have them be infused to just 1 item, the repair hammer, which could have the sewing needle, repair hammer and planing tool properties infused into it... cause let's face it, what is an Elder Scroll game without repair hammers?

Thanks for hearing me out, hope you all open your minds to this concept , because it truly will make the game much more enjoyable to those who love crafting without adding too much of a burden on others.

Dhrake

So I didn't see anything in it about patch notes. Only saw that Consummate Steak recipe part. So I will ask it outright in hope of an outright answer. Has the vr5 consummate drop rate that was verified in an earlier post as being bugged been fixed?

EmilyEstelle

I tend to lurk more than speak, but I had to say that the idea of the food and drinks stacking will FINALLY make brewing useful, because as it is now, I don't know one player that will pick a drink over the food buffs. Even if that was the only change to take place, it would be a huge benefit.

Kcttocs

I was really hoping to see this provisioning update in the latest patch

Aenra

i know that at best this will be ignored, but if i may just say it?

revamp it as you will, your direction is definitely promising

as long as i can do something a touch more decent than searching crates like a damn hobo all day long

not my idea of being a grand cook, sorry;
I may be the only one here treating it thus, but provisioning in teso for me was get it to 50 as early as possible so you can ---finally--- stop having to do those damn "crate dailies"

Marthea

I've been a level 50 provision pretty much since the beginning and I definitely agree that Provisioning needs some tweaking but I'm split on the proposed changes.
- I don' t like the what you see is what you get idea. I think the loot system for provisioning should be left mostly alone *except* instead of lowering drop rates overall, the common ingredients drop rate needs to be lowered and some of the uncommons needs to be tweaked upwards just a bit. For example: onions, salt, pepper. Tomato should be rare but they should be dropping. Getting them only from hirelings is way too low of a rate.
-YES YES food and drink should stack. Tweaking them so they stack in a more reasonable way is fine.
-The green recipes could stand to be rarer. The blue recipes are just right, maybe just a LITTLE rarer. The purple recipes? Ridiculous. I have never, ever looted a purple and I am a compulsive looter. I have all the motifs except Imperial and AE. I loot everything. They sell for a ridiculous amount of gold and that's IF you can find someone selling the one you want. I'd rather see a method by which you have to "learn" a recipe in some way.. maybe more like alchemy where you have to "discover" the combination. Or make recipes no drop to prevent farming/selling but make the purples a little easier to find.
-I don't like the idea of making current ingredients "stale" and worthless. I doubt any amount of compensation will make me feel better about all that time and effort going down the tubes. Nor do I want to start over collecting all new recipes because all the ones I accumulated are no longer relevant. To me that sounds like having to start all over again in Provisioning and that doesn't make me happy. The transition needs to be gentler and kinder to existing high level provisioners in my opinion.
-If it *has* to go forward the way it's laid out now I would like the devs to consider a one-time offer to refund all points spent in provisioning. I shouldn't have to pay to respec if I decided I don't like the new system and don't want to start over.
I know it's hard to convey "tone" in a post. I don't want to sound angry or whiny, that's not my intent. I understand that the current Provisioning system could use some tweak and if the majority of people embrace these changes that's great and I'll live with it; I just wanted to add my "two cents"

godospamb14_ESO

Ok safe to say everyone wants less ingredients (imaginable as I just did a search on how can I get "bear haunch" and pretty much everyone concludes to open containers religiously as farming from mobs is impractical.
Sorry to go a tad off topic but when I saw the video on "stealing" rather than "liberating" merchant baskets/crates- I was curious "what is the point" as it would slow collecting provisioning mats DRAMATICALLY; with this change I can see it being more viable but what concerns me is how you are going to make provisioning worth the effort of "stealthing and stealing" every ingredient? <-- just in case if you're going to reduce gains on current provisioning, consider provisioning is getting a heavy nerf when stealing is implemented (someone told me stealing is Veteran ranks only, if so ignore my previous comment)

I don't like the idea of "random" recipes; do not get me wrong, I don't mind rarity as it drives desire but I would prefer a more directional approach to finding rare recipes. Example: Purple recipes are dropped by zone-bosses and/or public dungeon bosses. - Random question about live: Are there legendary recipes?!

The transition of recipes is the biggest thing; (anyone who farmed a CRAZY amount of mats probably read this thread and wanted to abuse it for easy gold)
Unfortunately recipes can't exactly be given a "value", specifically the purples so give them the comparable recipe for the one they had (or close as it gets)- example: if they had a purple - pure stamina and there is not comparable; then give them stamina + something else purple)

ThisOnePosts

I like the idea of allowing food and drink at the same time.

I'm not so thrilled about changing the ingredients much. Also people will be looting the "cheese" if that is what they need and leaving none for others (unless we are able to all loot it every time it respawns).

Also ya, nothing should go stale. If I have 100 oats, why in the world should that go stale? Everything in 1 recipe, those ingredients should be converted to its new equal, in the same or even more (doesn't hurt for you to be generous with us ZOS!!!) quantity of its new counterpart. I have chosen certain recipes because I find their ingredients more than others and I know some people have done the same.

Also, the VR5 recipes should be beefed up to VR12 and move over all of the blue and purple recipes if you will be able to find low level recipes that allows you to get multiple benefits (as that's already in the game with blue and purple). Also, the Purple should really be Gold, the Blue should be Blue, and they should come out with real "inbetween" Purple recipes since the Purple drop like a gold item should drop. Just a little revamp, no need for a complete overhaul. A complete overhaul should be something like... Werewolves.

Mission

Give us some experimentation values or something on the ingredients so that stats can vary please!. Would love a little more uniqueness to come into cooking, than just combining ingredients!

Greatfellow

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re considering a significant revamp of Provisioning, and we’d like to get your feedback on it. Our goals with this proposed change are to improve the experience of collecting ingredients, to get away from the idea of tiered components, and to make brewing more useful. In a nutshell, we want to allow you to utilize every basic foodstuff you see in the game with cooking.

Just don't make the combination of food and drink so powerful that they make everything else unnecessary.

Garwulf

Tinkering at the edges will not make ESO better. Once you get to VR there is no real plot line relative to your alliance, just endless minor quests over and over again, whilst the only real driving force to do these areas is Skyshards and the occasional 'bonus' skill point . Alternatively you want to spend your time in Prat vs Prat aka PVP or join a group of hyperactives and go and visit a Veteran Dungeon or Craglorn. After the initial excitement ,all about as much fun as Farming Crow's Wood.
The Advancement system post level 50 is essentially pointless. Chase your tail and you can upgrade your Armour . WoW, excitement plus.
In reality the Game ends a level 50 which is to0 easy to reach in the first place.
How about a proper VR story line rather than' dopey's ' Silver and Gold.
How about a proper advancement system.
So what do we get offered instead of a well developed game world.
We get the possibility that all the scrounging is pointless. Our hard sort after foodstuffs go off. Give us a refrigerator.....

Jaybomb

I would like to add if you can stack food and drink together there will be no need for rare purple recipes,you will be able to create a pair that will give you stamina double health and magicka with 2 blue recipes you know the food might give you added health and magicka and the drink health and stamina or whatever way you want to go with it.does thus make sense to anyone?

Jaybomb

Greatfellow wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re considering a significant revamp of Provisioning, and we’d like to get your feedback on it. Our goals with this proposed change are to improve the experience of collecting ingredients, to get away from the idea of tiered components, and to make brewing more useful. In a nutshell, we want to allow you to utilize every basic foodstuff you see in the game with cooking.

Just don't make the combination of food and drink so powerful that they make everything else unnecessary.

Yes to end up with double health or mag,stam,and have the other 2 boosted with blue recipes for your food and drink why would you want a purple one?

Shizashane

I like the idea less ingredients, and I can wash all my food down with a nice ale! and get the effects of both.

Nightreaver

I would like to add if you can stack food and drink together there will be no need for rare purple recipes,you will be able to create a pair that will give you stamina double health and magicka with 2 blue recipes you know the food might give you added health and magicka and the drink health and stamina or whatever way you want to go with it.does thus make sense to anyone?

It's a revamp which means it could work completely different than it currently does.
Currently
Green increases one stat
Blue increases two different stats
Purple increases three different stats

It could end up being
Green increases either Magicka Max or Magicka Regen
Blue increases both Magicka Max and Magicka Regen
Purple increases Magicka Max + Magicka Regen + Spell power.

Not saying it should or shouldn't. Just saying we have no idea at this time what the different qualities of recipes will mean. Especially since the one thing we do know is that food and drink will stack.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey guys, thank you so much for all your input and feedback! We're going to move forward with the Provisioning revamp, largely as it was initially described. This will take some time to implement, so be on the lookout for it to arrive on the PTS in the coming months.

harvester100b16_ESO

I am an avid crafter in game it probably being the one thing i do most often except for questing that said I really like the idea of perishable food stuff but it would need to be used carefully otherwise some rarer ingrediants like oats and tomatoes perishing would need to be balanced with higher drop rates.

The idea of having all crafting materials not just provisioning items perishable makes no sense I believe the whole concept is based on real world principles were most food stuffs have a short term shelf life (days-months) were as other materials like leather wood ore ect would have shelf lives of years-decades

The idea of preservatives though i like salting pickling ect. seem like a great idea but im not sure if that would be too complicated to put into game without a near total overhaul and added materials .

I eagerly look forward to this coming to the pts and i will make sure i have a hand in testing these

Great work so far Zenimax the upcoming game ideas really have me eager to play more and more.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're going to move forward with the Provisioning revamp, largely as it was initially described.

So basically you're ignoring pretty much everything we've said that disagrees with your plan .. so much for providing 'feedback'.

michaelb14a_ESO2

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey folks, just wanted to clarify a few things based on questions or comments that have been raised so far in this thread:

• The insane rarity of high level purple recipes is absolutely a bug with a fix coming, and is already in the pipeline. For example, it is not our intention that rare recipes are sourced exclusively through Trials.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ can you please confirm if purple recipes are dropping at the 'as intended' rate now after the patch? The drop rate has now completely reversed and they are borderline common. The community just needs to know if this is the new norm or was it an over adjustment/bug so that the market can settle. This is VERY important now that Kiosks are live....

SantieClaws

My few little suggestions:

Please let us cook fish

Perhaps tie these changes in somehow with basic farming? When you pass a farm out in the world let there be areas where you can harvest fruits n veg in the same way as alchemy plants. So even if you cannot plant specific crops at least you could pick them.

More meat please from shooting critters ( deer, bears, mudcrabs etc)

theyancey

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thank you so much for all your input and feedback! We're going to move forward with the Provisioning revamp, largely as it was initially described. This will take some time to implement, so be on the lookout for it to arrive on the PTS in the coming months.

Thanks Gina! I welcome all of the changes. Not being a PvP type I have been concerned how the upcoming justice system would impact our ability to collect mats from various containers as usual. I trust that you are looking at this and making sure that one does not have to become a PvP thief in order for the craft to remain viable.

My stacks of drinks that now have to be vendored are delighted that they will actually be useful in the future!

The remote crafting stations found across Tamriel provide extra benefits to products made there. So should cooking fires! Additionally, when I make a staff, a sword, or a robe it says that it was crafted by me. Food and drink should be so imprinted too. After all, I am just as proud of my culinary concoctions as I am with my other creations.

Let me make a suggestion for an addition farther in the future. Once player housing drops perhaps we could have usable farmlands where certain base ingredients would have to be grown. LOTRO did a good job of that and ESO could do it better. Think having to fight off skeevers and assorted bugs during season, gobs stealing harvests, or having to destroy certain daedric infected fruits. This would compliment, not replace, what is found in containers, in the wild, and drops from mobs.

Reemo

The only problem, but is is a BIG problem, I have now with Provisioning is the fact that there are tons of different ingredients as well as regional recipes (which I like very much; it makes sense and makes the world more 'real') paired with a terrible crafting ingredient inventory system (since there is none!); I want to play the game, not a bank-and-alts inventory management application.

Concerning the proposed changes ...

Ingredients - what-you-see-is-what-you-get
On one hand it sounds nice since it might be easier to 'hunt' for specific ingredients. But that might result in me opening less containers overall and thus having less chance of finding recipes and style-related stuff.
Knowing that will I actually stop opening containers of ingredient types that I don't want\need ... or will I open them anyway for the chance of finding a recipe or style(-ingredient)?
I think I will open them anyway which would make the what-you-see-is-what-you-get approach kinda useless.
It also might become a 'logistic' nightmare for the devs; on average, in any given area they will have to place the same complete set of containers for the various ingredient types.

Functionality
I like these ideas, especially stacking food and drink benefits.

General
Cutting the number of ingredients in half sounds nice, mainly because it will mean less inventory management hassle ... but that hassle exists only because of the very poor crafting ingredient inventory system. In short it will not fix the root cause. Although I understand that it will make life easier for the devs etc.; for example less items equals less maintenance, storage capacity and whatnot.

With regards to unused ingredients I can understand the difficulty of deciding how to replace them fairly since in the new system the ingredients are not tiered anymore.
Is it possible to replace them with ingredient loot bags? For example for every 10 (or 25, or ?) low-tiered ingredients you get one bag, for every single high-tiered-rare-ingredient you get one bag, and every bag gives you a (random?) number of (random?) ingredients for the new system.
Maybe something similar can be done with old-system-recipes that can't be converted to new-system-recipes; instead give us a recipe loot-bag that gives you a random new-system-recipe of the same tier.

With regards to alliance zone specific recipes I have to say I like the current regional differences; it also gives you something extra to search for when you go into the other two zones.
I think it would be a shame of we end up with three zones that look different but play exactly the same.

With regards to shelve-life, ingredients going stale etc.
I don't understand where that is coming from, except maybe from the remark concerning the unused basic ingredients being replaced with "stale" versions of themselves.
But if you devs are thinking about ingredients degrading over time ... DO NOT GO THERE! Timed items (use within X hours\days\whatnot) are never fun and certainly do not belong at all in a pay-2-play MMO.

m12d12_ESO

I am totally against lowering the amount of ingredients in this game. I struggle to find some of the most basic items as it is now. Making the game more difficult is not a good thing in my view. My real life is stressful I sure don't want my game stressful!
- Shelf live - No. Leave it the way it is.
- Limiting items also greatly hinders - and increases the cost of food sales- bad
- Stacking is fine with me.
- Provisioning is not broken - like many things in this game - so I say leave it alone. Increase the drop rate of items across the board. Some place are almost barren and other more plentiful but the items are same ole same ole.
- Again, don't decrease the items in the game.

Pele

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thank you so much for all your input and feedback! We're going to move forward with the Provisioning revamp, largely as it was initially described. This will take some time to implement, so be on the lookout for it to arrive on the PTS in the coming months.

Thanks for the update.

Cogo

The lowering of mats will fix itself when the justice system comes in....cant just take from cities then.

There still are out in the world but that takes care of the mats problem.

Marthea

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thank you so much for all your input and feedback! We're going to move forward with the Provisioning revamp, largely as it was initially described. This will take some time to implement, so be on the lookout for it to arrive on the PTS in the coming months.

I'm so glad I just spent 150k gold on purple recipes.

egosumacunnus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thank you so much for all your input and feedback! We're going to move forward with the Provisioning revamp, largely as it was initially described. This will take some time to implement, so be on the lookout for it to arrive on the PTS in the coming months.

So you're ignoring pretty much everything we have said. Thanks it always nice to pretend we have input into the game.

keelycbrailsfordb14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thank you so much for all your input and feedback! We're going to move forward with the Provisioning revamp, largely as it was initially described. This will take some time to implement, so be on the lookout for it to arrive on the PTS in the coming months.

With the recent guild changes and issues that cropped up where we had to take guild functionality offline for a couple of days, I would like to see some confirmation that we can either:
1) Copy a real character over to PTS to test the provisioning changes
2) Not have character deletion(s) between now and then so we can at least get a good supply of recipes/ingredients on PTS to make it more of a "real world" test.

Good luck to the devs! I know a re-write of a large module such as this is a challenge, and I wish the provisioning team the best of luck! I know you had a basic framework you needed to stick with so it fits smoothly into the current framework (Software redesign is NOT easy!) and I appreciate that you listened to our feedback and will incorporate ideas and suggestions where available.

IcyDeadPeople

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

My few little suggestions:

Please let us cook fish

Perhaps tie these changes in somehow with basic farming? When you pass a farm out in the world let there be areas where you can harvest fruits n veg in the same way as alchemy plants. So even if you cannot plant specific crops at least you could pick them.

More meat please from shooting critters ( deer, bears, mudcrabs etc)

Yes, currently, fishing is sort of useless. Your other ideas sound interesting as well - would be nice to give players incentive to harvest stuff at farms in Cyrodiil.

Kiagirl

[/quote]

Nope. There should definitely not be. The only way to keep them rare and special is to make them loot only. Vampire bites started out at 20k and now they are pretty easy to get for free. There is nothing wrong with having special and rare things that only a select few people have.[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with this as long as you are one of the select few

Otherwise it kind of sucks.

Big fan of purple recipes (BOP)coming via provisioning quests. If you put in time and effort, you should get the rewards versus fighting with a RNG for looting the correct barrel at the right time.

Mats through gardens and fishing would be also nice.