Provisioning Revamp

Woolenthreads

charlmgn wrote: »

I've responded to someone else's separate comment about meat and vegetables, but in a nutshell:

Meat = protein, which is what you need to grow muscle, which is what you need to grow big and strong enough to do all the physical things these non-sedentary specimens did, and our characters do.

Vegetables contain vitamins and minerals necessary for energy production, i.e. stamina. Being low in calories, they're not a healthy alternative in a society where the daily requirement may exceed 10,000 calories.

Then we're going to have to agree to disagree because the history that I've been taught stated that unless you were rich, or a hunter, you got very little access to meat in a month. As you've already stated protein is used to build muscle but you shouldn't confuse muscle or strength with health. Those non-rich were generally healthy despite the lack of meat.

That's not to say a community can't thrive on an all-meat diet. Apparently it's doable if all the meat of a mixed group of the animals is eaten, with some of the meat being eaten raw. In a location like the arctic where it's not possible to get vegetables for half the year, it's a workable thing in small sommunities. It is simply not a doable thing for human civilisation as a whole.

charlmgn

Woolenthreads wrote: »

charlmgn wrote: »

I've responded to someone else's separate comment about meat and vegetables, but in a nutshell:

Meat = protein, which is what you need to grow muscle, which is what you need to grow big and strong enough to do all the physical things these non-sedentary specimens did, and our characters do.

Vegetables contain vitamins and minerals necessary for energy production, i.e. stamina. Being low in calories, they're not a healthy alternative in a society where the daily requirement may exceed 10,000 calories.

Then we're going to have to agree to disagree because the history that I've been taught stated that unless you were rich, or a hunter, you got very little access to meat in a month. As you've already stated protein is used to build muscle but you shouldn't confuse muscle or strength with health. Those non-rich were generally healthy despite the lack of meat.

That's not to say a community can't thrive on an all-meat diet. Apparently it's doable if all the meat of a mixed group of the animals is eaten, with some of the meat being eaten raw. In a location like the arctic where it's not possible to get vegetables for half the year, it's a workable thing in small sommunities. It is simply not a doable thing for human civilisation as a whole.

First, I don't contend that anyone, now or in the past, should have subsisted on an all-meat diet. Humans are omnivores, and need the nutrients of meats, fruits, and vegetables to survive. That's not the issue.

And luckily, with information at our fingertips in today's society, we don't have to rest on what we were taught in the past, whether those teachings agree or not. You are correct that the poor had more limited access to meat than the wealthy, but that again misses the point, since I wouldn't consider adventuring characters in Tamriel to be poor by those standards. Historically speaking, the poor didn't go out on quests, seek audiences with nobility and royalty, or do daring deeds that got their names whispered across the land. At a minimum, they would be noble, and therefore somewhat well-to-do, especially with the intensive education they already have at the start of their journey.

In a broad sense, we need meat, vegetables and fruits&#151all of them&#151to maintain good health. But obviously since each type of food must have its own niche in the game, the most reasonable role must be selected for each. For health, that happens to be meat.

To avoid the necessity of finding old school notebooks, and to take advantage of one of the benefits of the Information Age, I've looked up a few sites you (and any other reader) may reference if interested. I found some interesting stuff, and maybe this will convince you. On the Mental Floss website, one of my favorite places, I found a nice article describing 4 diseases caused by lack of nutrition (scurvy and rickets stood out to me). You'll see some similarities, but a lot more details along with more diseases and some of the history behind them at Dr. Adam Blatner's website. You may be interested in reading about the medieval English peasant's diet. This is a nice site because it not only talks about a bit of the history and details of the diet, but it breaks it down by estimated calorie content and compares it with a modern meal. The LIVESTRONG website also has a page regarding medieval peasant diet. I include it also because, as is common on that site, they also include many of the drawbacks of whatever they report on rather than just positive stuff, making what I believe is a more complete picture. While it is generally agreed that meals as cooked in the middle ages were more healthy than the average processed meals eaten in the U.S. today, there was much less variety available, and famine was always a problem. Since you appear convinced that medieval peasants were "generally healthy" despite more limited access to meat than their wealthier counterparts, I've included a link to this Health and Medicine history website. Along similar lines, this website discusses some of the details of life expectancy in the middle ages.

Feel free to check out any or all&#151or none&#151of the above websites. In any case, I enjoyed looking them up, if for nothing other than the additional information I gathered. I found information to broaden my view, but nothing to change it.

All this aside, to restate my final point in the post you referenced, which was cut off but I think is really the most important issue in this thread: How about we keep the recommendations to areas that will improve the provisioning system instead of nitpicking what they happen to call certain items?

Garish

Seriously? Taco's? Risotto's? Y U brake muh immurshun ZOS?!
Sure, by all means reduce the number of ingredients, but PLEASE PLEASE don't make us lose the uniqueness of the Elder Scrolls cuisine! That would just be sad.

/signed unhappy khajiit cook

HeroOfEvbof

Garish wrote: »

Seriously? Taco's? Risotto's? Y U brake muh immurshun ZOS?!
Sure, by all means reduce the number of ingredients, but PLEASE PLEASE don't make us lose the uniqueness of the Elder Scrolls cuisine! That would just be sad.

/signed unhappy khajiit cook

Fondue, Quiche, Confit, Etoufee - do those break immersion?
How about Goulash, Haggis, Jerky?
Ever notice the wines - Shirza, Muscat, Cabernet, Madeira, Zinfandel?
How about Vitae and Ouzo?

I demand that anybody out there tell me why Taco is less acceptable than any of those words.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

charlmgn wrote: »

Humans are omnivores, and need the nutrients of meats, fruits, and vegetables to survive. That's not the issue.

The world's not inconsiderable population of vegetarians, and more especially Vegans, would be to differ.

Goldie

So what did you do with sweetrolls? Remove them from the game??

newtinmpls

If there will be fewer ingredients, then have current ingredients convert to equivalents i.e. skeever meat & plump rodent toes into "scavenger meat" or something.

Have recipes convert as well to similar ones.

Do not increase rarity - this effectively puts the "rare" items out of reach of anyone but 13 year olds who have time to farm for hours, then sell to each other for millions.

Hexcaliber

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

charlmgn wrote: »

Humans are omnivores, and need the nutrients of meats, fruits, and vegetables to survive. That's not the issue.

The world's not inconsiderable population of vegetarians, and more especially Vegans, would be to differ.

They always beg to differ just for the sake of trying to make a point, but humans are omnivores.

Choosing to abstain from a particular part of our natural diet, a personal choice, does not change the fact our bodies, like those of most other mammals have evolved to gain nutrients from multiple sources including the consumption of animals. From our incisors and canines, binocular vision, through to our digestive juices, all have evolved to facilitate the hunting, capture, and consumption meat.

Kragorn

Hexcaliber wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

charlmgn wrote: »

Humans are omnivores, and need the nutrients of meats, fruits, and vegetables to survive. That's not the issue.

The world's not inconsiderable population of vegetarians, and more especially Vegans, would be to differ.

They always beg to differ just for the sake of trying to make a point, but humans are omnivores.

Choosing to abstain from a particular part of our natural diet, a personal choice, does not change the fact our bodies, like those of most other mammals have evolved to gain nutrients from multiple sources including the consumption of animals. From our incisors and canines, binocular vision, through to our digestive juices, all have evolved to facilitate the hunting, capture, and consumption meat.

You said humans "NEED" meat, that poster simply pointed out clearly you're wrong about that.

Divinius

Kragorn wrote: »

You said humans "NEED" meat, that poster simply pointed out clearly you're wrong about that.

Actually, his exact words were that humans "need the nutrients of meats," not that they needed the meat itself. And that statement actually is true.

Vegans have to make sure to supplement their diet with non-meat sources of the nutrients normally found in animal products (specifically proteins), or they end up becoming quite malnourished.

But this is all rather off-topic.

On topic, does anyone have a list of what current ingredients got ported over to the new system, and which ones are just going to become old/stale?

Kaizxen

Divinius wrote: »

On topic, does anyone have a list of what current ingredients got ported over to the new system, and which ones are just going to become old/stale?

Sneak-Thief made a spreadsheet. The original thread is here.

It's also worth noting that ZOS changed the cost of new ingredients on the PTS, per this thread. So basically, there are quite a few ingredients that are valuable now, but will be worth far less after 1.6.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I fully expect tie-ins from say Applebee's or Chili's. Maybe Taco Bell. VR14 food will be a Doritos Locos taco. Or maybe the two stat food could be called the Applebee's Two for One. They could make some bank.

jpp

There is always one level - max level on cooking, there is only one best recipe. It is not like cooking is. ESO is magic, but people eat there, so recipes should be base for making foods with different buffs. But I guess it is too difficult and too large change.
For example - in recipe you can use Fish, but there can be white, green and blue fishes - each could give different buff, same for spiecies, meats etc. - we could use any matching ingredient and depending on quality we could have different results.
Or may be it is planned this way?

Amiliana

I like the new provisioning system, even if there are still loads of various ingredients. The only concern I have is the pricing of the vegetables at the grocer and the UI of baskets.

UI of baskets
You can already on the graphic of the basket count 10+ apples in an apple basket, tomato basket or w/e, but always only loot about 2-3. Very annoying.

Pricing
1 carrot is 150 gold, you get about 60 gold in locked chests and lockboxes (0,5 carrot) and you give about 65 gold to the beggar in the achievement (0,5 carrot).

Since when is anything you lock up in a lockbox, chest, or give to a beggar worth less than half a carrot?

Logically it should be carrot worth x, you give the beggar 5x and amount in chests and lockboxes is 100x or similar. For example 5 gold for carrot, 25 gold to beggar, 500 gold in chest/lockbox)

Roechacca

Ugh July

Vanethian

I would suggest another idea to make Provisioning more useful, in organizing and considering roleplaying as well.

I mean unlearning recipes you added for error, or you just don't need anymore. Unlearning/removing would be really useful, also for organizing your list, and I mean unlearning not just hiding the recipes.

Then, renaming the recipes would be even better but I understand it would be more difficult to develop. Anyway the unlearning option can be easily implemented in the next patch.

Medieval3D

Nice!!, I like to cooking in the game, specially I like to increase my HP so its very good for my character and its very fun too. I just want to share an idea about crafting and about merchants.

I see the following about people who specialize on some skills but they only can share they stuffs on guild bank or guild trade system,. so Would be really nice to people who like crafting skills and earn some gold coins, have some system what let act your character like a merchant, I meant the character act like a NPC merchant so people can come to you to see what you offer, that would be a really nice feature about crafting. I just wanted to share this idea,

And thanks for keeping this game so awesome. Have a nice day!

SecretlyDivine

Dear Dev Team,

My bank is full of more provisioning crap than I can shake a stick at, I would love to use all of it and make some delicious food and brews... but too bad I barely have any RECIPES

Its very frustrating to have my bank full of all this stuff, as opposed to my other skills, I get to use all my supplies every time i come back to Daggerfall to drop off/pick up supplies.

I want to get the most out of my bank and hoard things, store crafting materials and whatever else us players do on this game.

Just a request, if you guys could make it easier to get a variation of recipes, or offer a merchant whom I could buy them from, that would be great.

with much love and support,

SecretlyDivine

Armann

In Tamriel, all the best chefs are master criminals, and if you bought recipes on the market you are likely in possession of stolen goods which is a felony.

drifter1138

Armann wrote: »

In Tamriel, all the best chefs are master criminals, and if you bought recipes on the market you are likely in possession of stolen goods which is a felony.

There is serious truth in this.
Despite being a master chef, I pilfered upwards of 75% of my recipes from inns, keeps, banks and guild halls.

fallensbane_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re considering a significant revamp of Provisioning, and we’d like to get your feedback on it. Our goals with this proposed change are to improve the experience of collecting ingredients, to get away from the idea of tiered components, and to make brewing more useful. In a nutshell, we want to allow you to utilize every basic foodstuff you see in the game with cooking.

Ingredients

• Cooking: What You See Is What You Get
  • You see grapes, you get grapes. You see cheese, you get cheese. No more clicking on a sack of green beans and getting aged meat.
• Brewing: Based on container type (barrels, sacks, and crates)
  • Brewing ingredients will be broken up by closed container type to keep them useful and to avoid overlap with cooking.

Functionality

• Food and drink categories will have clearer usage
  • Cooking: Meat = health, fruit = magicka, vegetables = stamina
  • Brewing: Alcohol = health, tea = magicka, tonic = stamina
• Combination recipes will be rarer, require more ingredients, and give multiple benefits as expected
  • Example: Rabbit (meat) and carrots (vegetable) may be combined if you have the Rabbit Stew recipe, and the result provides both a health and stamina pool increase (somewhat less than what a pure health or pure stamina food would provide, as in the current system).
• The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half while still providing just as many recipes as we have now (if not more). This will require most, if not all, of the existing recipes to be changed to accommodate this new paradigm.

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

We realize this is a major change and that many of you have invested heavily in leveling up Provisioning and collecting recipes, so we wanted to get your feedback before proceeding. We feel this would be a major improvement to the game and want to hear your thoughts on the matter!

I like these ideas but I do not want to lose access to solid recipes I already have. I have traded, purchase and found many blue and purple recipes in my on and off again year of playing. I will be very upset if my recipe lists is suddenly all but useless.

But I do like the plan of cutting ingredients down and streamlining it. Please also add in a way to get the purple materials in game other than just from hirelings.

Add in proper harvesting nodes for food as well. There are farms throughout the game and there is plenty of barren expanse where you could add 1 or 2 farms to an existing zone. Allow provisioners to gather materials like everyone else with a chance at getting a rare ingredient on occasion while gathering. Just like enchanting works.

Also in relation, please add alchemy ingredients to other locations in the world where it makes sense. I can't count how many tables with magical looks to them where it would clearly make sense for a few alchemy mats to be stores there. Add more types of heavy sacks in the world. Why not have them for each craft type, generated in the same locations as all the other ones where it makes sense? Heavy Bundle of Wood, Heavy Ore Crate, Bag of Runes, Alchemy Pouch etc.

st3n_svk

i absolutely like this

Divinius

fallensbane_ESO wrote: »

I like these ideas but I do not want to lose access to solid recipes I already have. I have traded, purchase and found many blue and purple recipes in my on and off again year of playing. I will be very upset if my recipe lists is suddenly all but useless.

But I do like the plan of cutting ingredients down and streamlining it. Please also add in a way to get the purple materials in game other than just from hirelings.

st3n_svk wrote: »

i absolutely like this

Uh, you guys do realize that this thread is from a year ago, and all these changes already happened, right?

Suisyo

Just wondering if this would be the appropriate place to post a suggestion for provisioning. Even though I know this started out with something that's already been implemented, I was hoping something else could be considered in a future patch.

At this point I have collected sooooo many recipes it is almost torturous trying to scroll through them all. And since I am focusing on provisioning as one of my crafts I almost always have some of every ingredient and have my recipe improvement very high, so filtering by ingredients I have or ability to use recipe doesn't help bring this # down.

So my suggestion is, could there be a chance we can add another filter option in the form of a recipe lvl slider (to avoid a ton of boxes to check)? This way when I need to make a recipe for my lvl 33 I can just slide it to 30 and pull up all recipes that lvl, or if someone else needs provisions of a different lvl from me I can select the one closest to their level without having to scroll through ALL of my recipes to get to the ones I need of each type.

At the same token, maybe even a quality slider could be helpful as well. The more recipes we collect the more tedious it gets trying to quickly find what we need.

I'd love to know what anyone else thinks of this idea.

Thank you

Sixsixsix161

Suisyo wrote: »

Just wondering if this would be the appropriate place to post a suggestion for provisioning. Even though I know this started out with something that's already been implemented, I was hoping something else could be considered in a future patch.

At this point I have collected sooooo many recipes it is almost torturous trying to scroll through them all. And since I am focusing on provisioning as one of my crafts I almost always have some of every ingredient and have my recipe improvement very high, so filtering by ingredients I have or ability to use recipe doesn't help bring this # down.

So my suggestion is, could there be a chance we can add another filter option in the form of a recipe lvl slider (to avoid a ton of boxes to check)? This way when I need to make a recipe for my lvl 33 I can just slide it to 30 and pull up all recipes that lvl, or if someone else needs provisions of a different lvl from me I can select the one closest to their level without having to scroll through ALL of my recipes to get to the ones I need of each type.

At the same token, maybe even a quality slider could be helpful as well. The more recipes we collect the more tedious it gets trying to quickly find what we need.

I'd love to know what anyone else thinks of this idea.

Thank you

This makes a lot of sense - especially after playing this game for a while, the current system is just overwhelming.

I also like to see an increase in storage capability - maybe a separate area, not counted against your slots/bank slots - but just for "provisions." I'm always constantly moving things from the bank to other players (and back) to make room for provisions and for my enchanter's runes/glyphs. Very annoying to spend all that time away from the game.

Thank you.

6

ArchGrizzlyOp

Yea wow this would be awesome.

Bleakraven

Sixsixsix161 wrote: »

I also like to see an increase in storage capability - maybe a separate area, not counted against your slots/bank slots - but just for "provisions." I'm always constantly moving things from the bank to other players (and back) to make room for provisions and for my enchanter's runes/glyphs. Very annoying to spend all that time away from the game.

Yes, at least with woodworking/clothier/blacksmithing, you still share some materials such as the style gems and trait gems. But there are so many different materials for enchanting and provisioning that I really, really regret levelling both, I have no bank space left for the fun trophy items from the dungeons or for collecting disguises. Or heck, just keeping stuff I think is cool...

itscompton

[/quote]

Yes, at least with woodworking/clothier/blacksmithing, you still share some materials such as the style gems and trait gems. But there are so many different materials for enchanting and provisioning that I really, really regret levelling both, I have no bank space left for the fun trophy items from the dungeons or for collecting disguises. Or heck, just keeping stuff I think is cool...[/quote]

I started playing this game about a month ago with a bunch of friends and we decided to each pick a trade; and I picked provisioning. Boy do I regret doing that. It was really easy to level up but now I'm wishing I hadn't because of what a pain in the butt it is to maintain an adequate base of materials and to find specific recipes needed for crafting writs.
My bank has 100 slots and I'd say 50 of them are taken up by food crafting materials; I'd love to delete some but who knows what ingredients the next high level recipe I get will call for so I have to keep them all. And there are some materials I still don't have stocked such as potatoes because I used all I had and now have no room to put more in the bank.
And the organization of the recipe list is horrid. Sure it's nice they break it down by effects so I can pretty quickly find the highest level recipe for any desired effects but trying to find a specific recipe for a crafting writ is beyond tedious. I probably have 200 recipes on my list and there is no way to search for a specific recipe or to even organize the list alphabetically to help find the one I need, if indeed I have it at all.
Provisioning definitely needs to be streamlined to make it more user friendly.

Zephyr01

So has Stacking of at least one Food and one Beverage happened yet? That way you would have the benefit of both things; your health would be boosted and would regenerate at the same time, instead of having to decide whether to eat or drink.


I also agree with the price of food; when balanced against other items the price is ridiculously high. And why oh why can't we buy the things that are rarely found, notably; flour, seasoning, millet. I always end up with around 12 potatoes to one flour, or 10 Garlic to one seasoning. Please, please, balance Provisioning items.

Divinius

Zephyr01 wrote: »

So has Stacking of at least one Food and one Beverage happened yet? That way you would have the benefit of both things; your health would be boosted and would regenerate at the same time, instead of having to decide whether to eat or drink.

Nope, hasn't happened, and probably won't. It was the one idea that literally everyone liked, and was waiting for, so of course ZOS decided to throw it out and not do it.