Firstly, thank you to the devs for all the hard work and effort that is going into patch 1.6. In many ways it is an improvement over what we had before, in some ways less so. This post is made to give people comprehensive information on the current state of class balance in 1.6.2, and a forum to discuss balance and what we'd like to see in the game going forward. The post is organized as follows:
- A full list (screenshots) of all class abilities & morphs in 1.6.4
- A comparison, point by point, of all classes
- A discussion of how balance is achieved in other games (including other Elder Scrolls Games) so people can be informed of the options and some of their ramifications
I put this thread together initially as a consolidated source with base #s on all abilities so people not on PTS can see what is coming down the pipeline. However, in doing so, it seems like it is a good platform for starting a civil discussion around class balance.
As such, the purpose of this thread is to not only document, but also discuss balance in general, offer a simpler way to reach the same goal, and also discuss class-specific abilities present on PTS for build 1.6
with the intent of seeing that classes are balanced in line with the following guiding principles: in order to have a hopefully civil and fruitful discussion of where people would like to see the game go.
After giving this (obviously) lots of thought, I am of the opinion that devs should consider taking the following steps from here:
- Ensure players earn equivalent XP toward champion points per hour invested while "playing how they want," whether it be questing, PvP, raiding, dungeon delving, exploring, crafting, grinding, etc. with no one type of play giving an advantage over the others.
- Further allow players to effectively "build their own classes" through the Champion system such that players can unlock each of the other classes, and use them on a single character (including alts) one class every 20 champion points (which roughly corresponds to the exp gained by doing Cadwell's Silver & Gold); game is balanced because any character can eventually access any ability
- ^may require that there be a Cyrodiil for new players with no champion points
- Refocus the dev resources currently spent on balance instead on bringing in new skills and abilities through new guild lines, spell-crafting, etc.
- AND/OR Implement the following list of changes:
List of Suggested Changes
The alternative is to continue to spend resources on balancing, which seems to have taken resources away from new systems (
spell-crafting), skills, and abilities. I'd rather have perfect balance (everyone has access to the same abilities, and can create their own builds), and a growing list of abilities to choose from, than inherent dis-balances and dev resources being eaten up chasing complaints.
The problem inherent with having classes is that, unless they're all accessible on a single character, you give yourself an equation that is nearly impossible to balance without homogenizing classes. In which case, why have classes at all? You also force players to create alts if they want access to X ability. I know there are a lot of players that like making alts, I personally like focusing on one character. It should be possible to accomplish the same things regardless of this preference. Allowing access to all abilities on a single character doesn't prevent alts, but restricting access forces players to create alts to access certain abilities.
As such, and as mentioned above (and below), I think it is in the best interest of the game and players going forward for the Devs to simply allow players to open up each of the other classes on their characters after reaching a certain level of achievement. The trick is ensuring that players can do so while engaging in the gameplay they want, whether it be questing, PvP, raiding, dungeon delving, exploring, crafting, grinding, etc. with no one type of play giving an advantage over the others. The Champion system (assuming XP gain rates per hour invested in each style of play are tweaked to be equivalent) offers a perfect platform for this. You can have a new class unlock at 20/40/60 Champion Points, then your alts can do the same.
My initial thought was that you could unlock a class upon reaching 50, then 1 class each for completing Cadwell's Silver, and Cadwell's Gold. That corresponds nicely with the idea that you're sort of reliving each of the other Alliance's from the start. Unfortunately, such an approach would force players into doing ALL the content on ALL alts, over and over, if they want to have a level playing field. Many people will not want to repeat the content, or even do it the first time. The Champion System is great in that it provides a mechanism for people to accomplish the class unlocking once, and have it be available on all alts.
People who like alts or just want to play a single class, should note, just because you have access to the class, doesn't mean you need to spend points in it. You can play only one class per toon if you like. I'd like to play differently.
I hope Devs ultimately choose to open up classes as I propose, if not, then there is still balance work to be done.
In designing any system or project it is first important to define what success looks like, and the criteria that the project should be measured against. Otherwise, you may end up with a system or project that sounds good on paper, but is fragmented in reality and doesn't ultimately work well in practice. So, under the assumption that these are the guiding principles for ZOS, I'll try to help.
The devs have indicated their goals for balance are along the lines of the following, and ultimately I'll suggest some changes that would be in line with these principles:
- "Play how you want"
- Maximize potential build diversity
- Ensuring all player characters have a level playing field as a baseline so that skill and theorycrafting matter more to success than class choice
- Buff, not nerf, in order to achieve these principles
- Ensuring all player characters can, one way or another, accomplish the same things, regardless of class choice
- Making things "fun" for those of us who wish to see the game balanced in-line with these principles
- Striving to ensure groups will be indifferent to the class of the player when forming groups and willing to take on anyone who can perform the needed role (dps, heals, cc, hybrid, or tank)
- Preserving a unique class identity while not giving any class a significant advantage over any other class
Much of the balance discussion here is based on the assumption that ZOS (and most players) would like the game designed around the principles indicated above. In fact, there are some games (ex. TSW, where there are no classes and any single character can learn all active and passive abilities, but can only use a few at a time, and you see a huge variety in builds, including situational builds, and great character diversity, and some pretty amazing teamworking and little whining or class bashing as a result) that go even further in implementing these principles, and the balance is well-done. Hopefully this thread will introduce information people may not be aware of, and ultimately lead to an even more enjoyable game than we have now.
Thus, apart from some discussion on how balance is approached in other games, the discussion is mostly focused on class balance. It will not address balances between weapons. There will be some discussion of Stamina & Magicka in the context of the abilities, but the overall balance of Stamina vs Magicka vs hybrid largely goes beyond this thread.
If you wish to comment on this thread, I humbly request that your comments be in the spirit of helping ZOS make ESO as enjoyable as possible for everyone, not to give unfair advantage to any one class.
Lastly, before I get into the long post, I'd like to thank
@SpAEkus for all the help, and for identifying a useful Add-on for purposes of compiling data for the thread.