Provisioning Revamp

Kcttocs

Audigy wrote: »

Just a simple remark,

please let us use fish in the provisioning of the future. I catch a lot of fish and cant do anything with it. You would think that such a hero as ourselfs has at least learned that fish can actually be eaten, especially for Argonians this seems to be a bit flawed right now.

I am thinking about a tasty fish stew, some soup and a fish bread!

Fish Tacos!

Soloeus

Audigy wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re considering a significant revamp of Provisioning, and we’d like to get your feedback on it. Our goals with this proposed change are to improve the experience of collecting ingredients, to get away from the idea of tiered components, and to make brewing more useful. In a nutshell, we want to allow you to utilize every basic foodstuff you see in the game with cooking.

Ingredients

• Cooking: What You See Is What You Get
  • You see grapes, you get grapes. You see cheese, you get cheese. No more clicking on a sack of green beans and getting aged meat.
• Brewing: Based on container type (barrels, sacks, and crates)
  • Brewing ingredients will be broken up by closed container type to keep them useful and to avoid overlap with cooking.

Functionality

• Food and drink categories will have clearer usage
  • Cooking: Meat = health, fruit = magicka, vegetables = stamina
  • Brewing: Alcohol = health, tea = magicka, tonic = stamina
• Combination recipes will be rarer, require more ingredients, and give multiple benefits as expected
  • Example: Rabbit (meat) and carrots (vegetable) may be combined if you have the Rabbit Stew recipe, and the result provides both a health and stamina pool increase (somewhat less than what a pure health or pure stamina food would provide, as in the current system).
• The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half while still providing just as many recipes as we have now (if not more). This will require most, if not all, of the existing recipes to be changed to accommodate this new paradigm.

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

We realize this is a major change and that many of you have invested heavily in leveling up Provisioning and collecting recipes, so we wanted to get your feedback before proceeding. We feel this would be a major improvement to the game and want to hear your thoughts on the matter!

I like the changes a lot.

Just a simple remark,

please let us use fish in the provisioning of the future. I catch a lot of fish and cant do anything with it. You would think that such a hero as ourselfs has at least learned that fish can actually be eaten, especially for Argonians this seems to be a bit flawed right now.

I am thinking about a tasty fish stew, some soup and a fish bread!

I oppose further rarity but the rest looks good. As is, the only way to get Purple Recipes is to buy them for Real Money from Gold Sellers. I have spent many many many hours looting vet zones, every spot you could really consider.

I have done logout/login farming and I have just teleported from V10 zone to V9 zone to farm for a little instead. I have tried everything I could think of and I have gotten a total of 3 Purple recipes from pre-nerf to now which were all level 35 drinks. This is not a good thing, its too rare for its own good.

Yes, some players attest they have found "quite a few" just like some people actually do win the lottery or get elected as president.

I would also not take kindly to having all of my work in Provisioning reduced to nothing by being forced to hunt for more recipes that will be hidden behind walls that I cannot climb over with the coming Justice System.

ShadowscaleSithis

Stacking of Food and Drink = Awesome and about time.
Less ingredients = Awesome

Stuff going stale - Why spend hours finding and looting everything when it just goes stale anyway = stupid idea

Combo recipes giving even less buffs than they do now == another stupid idea. They already seem to be half of a single recipe buff

Provisioning right now is basically my only way to make money sans quests so these changes look like I will be freeing up all those skill points or just deleting my provisioner.

Dagda

Love it all except the "stale" idea. I've been building up my "larder" since day one and I would feel cheated to see it all go.

Can't existing items be converted into nearest equivalent new items instead?

B_lov3d

Like the revamp idea.

-Stacking drinks and food is logical and finding veggies in a bag of produce makes sense, but I suggest an increase or item-drop table update so that people can find ingredients like tomatoes. The one purple recipe I've found I can't even use because I've gotten a total of 6 tomatoes in 2 months, all from the hireling.
-Hate the rarity drop decrease, sounds like a bad idea. I've found 1 purple in 4 months of play, and I play more than I'd like to admit with 4 toons.
-I like the idea of making fishing relevant to provisioning. Also wouldn't mind getting crab meat from crabs, and maybe being able to shoot those giant vultures :P

keelycbrailsfordb14_ESO

Nightreaver wrote: »

Did they say somewhere that they intend to delete characters on PTS? Why would they do that?

It would be nice if we could copy characters from Live to PTS since Provisioning is probably the worst Craft to level on PTS. You can create a VR12 character on PTS which makes it real easy to level the other Crafts but for Provisioning you still need the low level recipes to level and as a VR12 I am only finding VR5 recipes.

I leveled a new character from scratch to level 12 just to get the low level recipes but I'm only finding level 1 and 5 recipes. Got to level 38 Provisioner but using only level 1 and 5 green recipes it is going REAL slow.

It's not necessarily explicitly stated; however it is a test server and they reserve the right to wipe any and all data at any time.

It's taken me since launch to get 313 of the 351 (OK, 349 with the known glitched ones) recipes on my Provisioner, and I really think putting in that much work on the PTS with the risk of a character wipe is what made me change my mind.

Your reply that a level 12 isn't finding the level 10 and 15 food recipes like on the live server is also a concern, and the daunting fact that you've then got to get to 16/26/36/46 to pick up the rest of the non Vet recipes - well that's a heck of a lot of commitment, and a lot for ZOS to ask of its player base to really fully test the provisioning changes. It can't be easy to find someone to level grind with on PTS, and even if you do, the time commitment on grinding and then looting in all three factions is daunting.

Either let us have a template now (that won't risk being wiped) with 100% provisioning recipes known, and let us gather mats ourselves, so that we can see the changes, or let us use a true test and copy our characters over to PTS (my preference). If they have to manually copy over a few toons for testing, well, to quote some pop culture... "I Volunteer As Tribute!" I already have out of game spreadsheets on what my provisioner knows, and it's easy to type in the number of which mats she has - and I can then do the same for the changes to get a really good idea of what happened. I would, in fact, like to share this information with the community so that people are ready for the changes on the live server vs. being surprised when suddenly all of their expensive rare tomatoes (for example) go stale.

We will also need templates for looting, depending on how they change the loot tables (I assume the 12/16/26/36/46/VR1 will remain the cutovers, or at least something similar), else we can't help them make sure things like the Roast Goat vs. Saltrice Slurry thing aren't still occurring - or that AD toons in the 26-35 range aren't looting blue recipes for other factions. If recipes remain faction specific even.

Holy crap I'm long winded.

Rune_Relic

Can we have a recipe book for holding recipes to go with the spell book for holding spells ?
I am new to provisioning and have a lot of inventory space filled with recipes at present.

Westcoast14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

...
[*] The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)
...

Why not include the capacity to make "meals" where the provisioner can tune the relative potency of the attribute/regen stat boosts a "meal" provides. An algorithm could determine the trade-offs between the various attributes/regen stats. The most straight forward example would be to combine drinks and foods in this way with the provisioner controlling the balance of the attribute boosts vs the regen stats. In theory this could extend to the capacity to tune all of the stats. This could supplement greater flexibility in builds and encourage more player to player interaction in creating the "perfect" meal for any given player.

Braddass

Is there anything more boring than fishing in a video game? When my son was younger, I used to ground him by making him fish in WoW for me for 3 hours.

I hope that we will not be forced to fish to make decent recipies.

zgrssd

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half [...]

That alone is worth just about any downside this change could have.

Currently they are just too many crafting materials. And especailly too many Provisioning materials (it reached the point where my Provision mule ran out of space, so I now have to level an Imperial Horse for capacity).

Also Provision materials has the worst overview of all the materials (and it is not that good to begin with).
If you could also show the "type" (meat, fruit, vegetable) in the tooltip this would be a huge boon.

Without Advanced Filters, Crafting Material Level Dispaly and Sous Chef Provisioning is the least accesible craft right now.

Vraneon

I mainly hope that the new recipes will become somehow more obtainable. My friends and I still haven't found a single purple vet 5 recipe. The drop rate is in my opinion far too low. Looking at the prices and what I see/hear the drop rate is like one tier above legendary. In my auction house there are 3 Imperial Motifs for sale, but not a single vet 5 recipe. I hope the probability for finding one will be like the one for the purple motifs.

I think in future when player housing arrives (I hope this is soon ) it would be very nice if plants, fruits, vegetables, flowers would be plantable so you would have for example 3 spots and one could harvest one node every 24 hours. For example dragonthorn, potatoe and cabbage. If the ingredient is rare it could take longer to grow or replenish like 72 hours for a tomatoe or something like this.

Ah, I almost forgot one thing I would appreciate it a lot if there would be more Tabs for materials or some sort of other filter system in the inventory, bank and guild bank. Scrolling so long and looking for certain materials is really annoying. There are soooo many materials and ingredients, but they are all in one tab. Just by adding a function or new subtabs for each profession would help a lot. Not just provisioning, but all crafts.

Dagoth_Rac

Know how there is a passive so you can bite another player and turn them into a vamp? There should be a passive to teach another player a recipe. With a longer cooldown based on recipe quality. So once a week for a VR5 purple recipe, but only 3 days for a VR5 blue recipe, and only 1 hour for a Level 1 green recipe. And so on...

eventide03b14a_ESO

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Know how there is a passive so you can bite another player and turn them into a vamp? There should be a passive to teach another player a recipe. With a longer cooldown based on recipe quality. So once a week for a VR5 purple recipe, but only 3 days for a VR5 blue recipe, and only 1 hour for a Level 1 green recipe. And so on...

Nope. There should definitely not be. The only way to keep them rare and special is to make them loot only. Vampire bites started out at 20k and now they are pretty easy to get for free. There is nothing wrong with having special and rare things that only a select few people have.

Giraffon

Vraneon wrote: »

Ah, I almost forgot one thing I would appreciate it a lot if there would be more Tabs for materials or some sort of other filter system in the inventory, bank and guild bank. Scrolling so long and looking for certain materials is really annoying. There are soooo many materials and ingredients, but they are all in one tab. Just by adding a function or new subtabs for each profession would help a lot. Not just provisioning, but all crafts.

Get "Advanced Filters":
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info245-AdvancedFilters.html

You won't regret it.

Cyberdown

Two things I want to see done with provisioning.

First of all tier it. Meaning if I loot a crate in a major city near the banker, I get basic food. If I loot some dwemer urn or some crate in a daedric shrine dungeon, make it much more possibly to get food used in blue and purple recipes.

also there is an add on that simply displays in text what the food item is used for, for instance "base for lv 30 ebonheart food" or "used in purple and blue recipes" so I know...ok I just looted this food item, its used in purple recipes...ill keep that and toss the based item used in food for another faction.

basically its super easy to know what items for any other item in game are more valuable EXCEPT provisioning.

I cringe to think how many peppers and oats I tossed away because I had just one and a full bag and knew the other ingredients were being used...not knowing how much those were worth or their value down the road.

So I purpose adding a color to the provisioning items and a level. Base stuffs like broths/stocks/fats/flours and basic ingredients make those white, then things used in rare recipes give them their appropriate color. No more mistakes in looting because I wasn't familiar with every single rare recipe.

And please let it make sense to loot crates in difficult content by keeping base food items to easy to access and predictable (somewhat) places.

LonePirate

I absolutely detest the idea of crafted food and beverage becoming stale and essentially useless. Some people may place crafted foods in their bank or guild store where they could sit for a while before being needed. There is no need for these items to degrade.

SluggoV2

Winner...winner...Chicken Dinner!

I love the idea. BUT, please tweak the rare drops just a bit. Haven't seen a purple since April...and I gave that to a guildie...

Baranon

All in all, I like the idea. I'm also a LvL 50 Provisioner and would lose, but I think it would make Provisioning easier to understand and hopefully more productive. At this point, I have tons of recipes that just do nothing and ingredients that just grow mold.

Nightreaver

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Know how there is a passive so you can bite another player and turn them into a vamp? There should be a passive to teach another player a recipe. With a longer cooldown based on recipe quality. So once a week for a VR5 purple recipe, but only 3 days for a VR5 blue recipe, and only 1 hour for a Level 1 green recipe. And so on...

Can't say I would be in favor of Players teaching other players recipes. I would prefer to have a Grocer/Barkeep offer a quest every tier (5 levels) that would reward the player with a Purple recipe for that tier. At least then they would be earned.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Nope. There should definitely not be. The only way to keep them rare and special is to make them loot only. Vampire bites started out at 20k and now they are pretty easy to get for free. There is nothing wrong with having special and rare things that only a select few people have.

How would you define "select"? As it is right now the "Select" people are the ones with a million gold on hand to buy one or received it randomly, most likely from a trial that only "Select" people can complete who may not have any interest in Provisioning other than the coin made from selling those "special" recipes.

To me, the best rewards (recipes) should go to the people who put the most effort into that profession. If the objective it to keep them rare then give us a quest where you need to create a dish consisting of rare Bind On Pickup foods for that tier. Completing the quest results in a Bind On Pickup purple recipe.

In addition, as long as Purple recipes require hard to attain mats then I really can't understand why purple recipes should be any more difficult to attain than purple mats from any other crafting profession.

And if the only way to attain Legendary mats for other professions is through hirelings then maybe we should consider purple recipes only coming from hirelings as well. Make them BOP if you want to keep them rare.

Jaybomb

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re considering a significant revamp of Provisioning, and we’d like to get your feedback on it. Our goals with this proposed change are to improve the experience of collecting ingredients, to get away from the idea of tiered components, and to make brewing more useful. In a nutshell, we want to allow you to utilize every basic foodstuff you see in the game with cooking.

Ingredients

• Cooking: What You See Is What You Get
  • You see grapes, you get grapes. You see cheese, you get cheese. No more clicking on a sack of green beans and getting aged meat.
• Brewing: Based on container type (barrels, sacks, and crates)
  • Brewing ingredients will be broken up by closed container type to keep them useful and to avoid overlap with cooking.

Functionality

• Food and drink categories will have clearer usage
  • Cooking: Meat = health, fruit = magicka, vegetables = stamina
  • Brewing: Alcohol = health, tea = magicka, tonic = stamina
• Combination recipes will be rarer, require more ingredients, and give multiple benefits as expected
  • Example: Rabbit (meat) and carrots (vegetable) may be combined if you have the Rabbit Stew recipe, and the result provides both a health and stamina pool increase (somewhat less than what a pure health or pure stamina food would provide, as in the current system).
• The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half while still providing just as many recipes as we have now (if not more). This will require most, if not all, of the existing recipes to be changed to accommodate this new paradigm.

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

We realize this is a major change and that many of you have invested heavily in leveling up Provisioning and collecting recipes, so we wanted to get your feedback before proceeding. We feel this would be a major improvement to the game and want to hear your thoughts on the matter!

If it aint broke dont fix it.i have realy just started to craft food and potions and think that its simple,ideal and if you are ro make changes small ones at a time.you still did'nt fix the sheild bash issue from first update i do not want a repeat of something like that

Jaybomb

alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »

A big step in the right direction. Less ingredients would free up some inventory space. Having drink and food stack, excellent. Purple combo recipes... I want level appropriate food. I have one purple recipe lvl 35 and I am VR9 and it's not for lack of clicking and scrounging. They are just too rare.

I like what you see as good changes and purple recipes seen them selling at 100k upmbut i have one and its so hard finding all 5 ingredients,i now stick with blue ones easy to find or buy and the ingredients are a little more common i.e red wheat and salt

Jaybomb

Soliss wrote: »

This sounds like a lot of work and text for virtually no little discernable change at all.

The only thing that sticks out is being able to use food + drink at the same time.

If you want to revamp provisioning, put in more endgame recipes that have more effects than just health, stamina, magicka.

"Never mistake activity for achievement"

Ye man totally agree food and drink should be able to be stacked rather than one or the other.i always go for food over drink

Jaybomb

Cogo wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re considering a significant revamp of Provisioning, and we’d like to get your feedback on it. Our goals with this proposed change are to improve the experience of collecting ingredients, to get away from the idea of tiered components, and to make brewing more useful. In a nutshell, we want to allow you to utilize every basic foodstuff you see in the game with cooking.

Ingredients

• Cooking: What You See Is What You Get
  • You see grapes, you get grapes. You see cheese, you get cheese. No more clicking on a sack of green beans and getting aged meat.
• Brewing: Based on container type (barrels, sacks, and crates)
  • Brewing ingredients will be broken up by closed container type to keep them useful and to avoid overlap with cooking.

Functionality

• Food and drink categories will have clearer usage
  • Cooking: Meat = health, fruit = magicka, vegetables = stamina
  • Brewing: Alcohol = health, tea = magicka, tonic = stamina
• Combination recipes will be rarer, require more ingredients, and give multiple benefits as expected
  • Example: Rabbit (meat) and carrots (vegetable) may be combined if you have the Rabbit Stew recipe, and the result provides both a health and stamina pool increase (somewhat less than what a pure health or pure stamina food would provide, as in the current system).
• The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half while still providing just as many recipes as we have now (if not more). This will require most, if not all, of the existing recipes to be changed to accommodate this new paradigm.

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

We realize this is a major change and that many of you have invested heavily in leveling up Provisioning and collecting recipes, so we wanted to get your feedback before proceeding. We feel this would be a major improvement to the game and want to hear your thoughts on the matter!

I like the idea! And its needed.

1. If you can do this with balance in mind, I am ALL for mixing regen and buff food. So far its been a choice, but regen only really been useful lvl 1-50.
Very good idea.....balancing is important though.

2. RARE. Purple recipes or any NEW powerful recipes MUST be rare.
There need to be semi rare blue recipes like today, that you can use, but not always have access too....that way we keep the value of food buffs and dont just expect them all the time.

3. Regarding mats. I think its good as it is. Same like gear. It should be some sort of random and not just you know before you see it what it is. Exploring and being nosy about everything, should still pay off. This is also to not bring back "farming". Mats are not hard to come by when you to get them, have a guild who helps, or simply go buy em in a guild store.

This looks great!

Guild chef, for 50 players. Always have BLUE lvl 50 food buffs in guild bank for all to use.

This is my concern balance revamp can mean anything and ye the way it is stops farming you dont know what your getting and there'always a great feeling when you do find i.e red wheat in a barrel i love it that way so small steps with this one pls

Jaybomb

nudel wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

Slightly worried that this will mean a nerf to food buffs across the board. Otherwise good changes overall.

This is a big deal and will make a BIG difference if you can stack food and drink i thought at the start you could and was upset that you couldn't.didn't make sense food and drink go together with me and spellcheck.lol

Jaybomb

I like the idea of less ingredients i.e grapes one kind,meat one kind veg one kind and other ing's red wheat salt stay the same as they are rare and you need a bit diversity!

Jaybomb

timidobserver wrote: »

Okay, the system changes sound good to me. My only remaining question is what kind of ETA do we have. Is this something that may be slipped into Update 3, or is it something that will be much further down the line?

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Ye i get the feeling it may be the question before the storm and it'll get dropped on us from from atop of ash mountain

Jaybomb

The going stale idea is just wrong when you cook your provisions you dont just thinh ok 10 that'l last me a day or two and then 2 days later make more.NO NO NO most of us stack our ingredients like salt and red wheat until we have 25 or 50 then go and make as much as you can.revisiting cooking fires everyday is more grinding not good not good at all.it seema the only thing that makes sense is stacking food with drink.i get the feeling this is not a question it's a statement to prepare us for some future shock why dont you just stick an ice staff up our nose and be done with it.lol

Immacula

Darzil wrote: »

Allowing Food and Drink to stack is very positive, otherwise one or other will pretty much always been seen as preferred (currently Food by miles).

The transition is pretty important, as recipe collection is the difficult part of provisioning, so the recipes should be carefully converted to others that give the same attributes. Often people will have paid a lot of gold for them. It does make sense to have lesser yields on things that effect multiple attributes, but the exact numbers will be interesting to see.

The biggest issues with the current system are less about the ingredients, though the sheer number of them combined with the very limited inventory space in the game is an issue, but are around veteran levels not dropping the right level of ingredients (partially addressed recently), lower level ingredients not dropping (introduced recently, as ingredients dropped seems to be based on character level not zone, at least once veteran), and recipes being very rare (I think I've seen one blue recipe and no purples (and one motif) in 3 veteran zones, opening everything I encounter). A tweak to rarities coupled with making ingredient drops based on zone rather than character level, and fixing all the ingredient types, would be appreciated.

Could not have said it better myself.

Srithla

I think people are misreading the part about items going stale. In the suggested new system, items will not go stale (at least they haven't said that they will). What they did say is 'additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves'. That is, a one-time hit, not an ongoing one.

Yes, it will be big for those who have large quantities of the old items. Hopefully there will be enough warning to use or lose those items before the transition. In fact, this might very well be considered the first warning.

MeowGinger

But that's exactly why people are upset, Srithla... most people save stacks of the ingredients they need (and then probably make foods in bulk). Others have posted in the thread that they do just this (and I do too).

I'm also worried that the foods I used will be nerfed (balanced) so that foods can stack with drinks. If that is to be the case, I would prefer foods and drinks to not stack.

I really don't think this revamp is necessary. The large number of ingredients can be an annoyance, but for each level there are only maybe 3-6 recipes that are useful (if even that many), so about 3-18 ingredients (blue recipes)... less for people who only make foods, because the drinks add so little recovery that they are not even worth using. Ingredient storage would only be a problem for someone who plans to make blue and purple foods and drinks, of all or most levels, at any given time.

I have other concerns with provisioning:
- not have foods nerfed so that foods can stack with drinks and be balanced (if anything, drinks should be buffed, especially with the softcap increase coming out tomorrow)
- fix purple recipes (increased drop rates & buffs, or gold recipes instead of buffs)
- fix provisioning item drops by zone once and for all
- ability to still obtain provisioning ingredients without being marked as a thief under the justice system
- add VR10+ recipes