Provisioning Revamp

MornaBaine

PLEASE make food and drink effects stack and do NOT "rebalance" as what you are really saying is "gimp" the effects. Getting some extra regen is not going to throw the whole game out of whack and it'll encourage people to either make or seek out player made foods and drinks. And FFS PLEASE just give us a separate bank space that will ONLY hold provisioning mats. I like the crazy variety of recipes...I just don't like having my ENTIRE FREAKING BANK taken up by the flippin' mats!!!!

Joy_Division

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're going to move forward with the Provisioning revamp, largely as it was initially described.

So basically you're ignoring pretty much everything we've said that disagrees with your plan .. so much for providing 'feedback'.

After seeing the new campaigns instituted pretty much exactly as they laid out before asking for our feedback - despite a significant majority saying they were too short - did you honestly think they'd change anything?

Fizzonance

I'm currently in a situation where I know 136 recipes and has 100's of blue-purple ingredients. If they are going for a complete reset, do you think they also will reset the crafted food & drinks? If not, a wise choice would be to craft like crazy now, making something out of all of the ingredients and through that not being completely over-run by the re-vamp.
However, if they are resetting the crafted consumables as well - nothing really matters...

abigfishy

Making drink stack with food solves the biggest real problem with provisioning besides the inventory issue.

What is the need for a massive change? What is wrong with the current system that couldn't be fixed with some tweaks?

Instead of spending hundreds of hours on this, annoying lots of people, and making people that have invested heavily in this skill suffer they could make changes that would take 30 minutes to code and be applied in the next weekly patch.

1) Drinks stack with food.
2) Allow provisioning items to stack to 1,000 not 100.
3) Add text to each ingredient actually saying what it is used for (eg Aldmeri Dominion level 20 food).

and a tiny bit harder...

4) Add a different extra bonus to each purple recipe to make them unique (eg +2% spell crit)

Bang. 99% of provisioning issues gone.

Fizzonance

abigfishy wrote: »

3) Add text to each ingredient actually saying what it is used for (eg Aldmeri Dominion level 20 food).

Yep, here they could definitely learn from add-ons. I mean, one could easily solve this issue by downloading the add-on Sous Chef that provides just the information you mention.
But, I agree with you - it might be a good idea too implement it instead of having people relying on add-ons.

Link to Sous Chef:
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info163-SousChef-ProvisioningHelper.html

kassandratheclericb14_ESO

What about a chance to learn a recipe when you are cooking? Like a random chance when cooking a X level to learn a related X level recipe?

daniel.fairhaven

Along that front, what is Zeni going to do with existing recipes learned, if they change do we need to re-learn new ones? will existing ones carry over with different ingredients? and if they carry over will we get them given to us since we "know" them already.

Origin

I like the provisioning revamp concept, especially because it will simplify and reduce the number of mats required for crafting.
Hopefully this will also fix the availability of the provisioning mats for VR.

I just wish to have it implemented rather sooner than later.

ola.wilhelmssonb16_ESO

Reducing the number of different ingredients, stacking of regen and max stat buffs all sounds great to me. But what about seafood? Will all species of fish in Tamriel still be un-edible and thus utterly useless? Adding recipies for fish, and perhaps even clams and oysters would be a great improvement. Clams and oysters could, in that case, be harvested on rocky shores. (How to find the main ingredient for fish dishes should be pretty obvious.) This would, of course, require at least a minor overhaul of fishing and may be "outside the scope" of the upcoming provisioning revamp.

zgrssd

mikaelvinrothb16_ESO wrote: »

abigfishy wrote: »

3) Add text to each ingredient actually saying what it is used for (eg Aldmeri Dominion level 20 food).

Yep, here they could definitely learn from add-ons. I mean, one could easily solve this issue by downloading the add-on Sous Chef that provides just the information you mention.
But, I agree with you - it might be a good idea too implement it instead of having people relying on add-ons.

Link to Sous Chef:
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info163-SousChef-ProvisioningHelper.html

@mikaelvinrothb16_ESO:
Also consider Crafting Material display. It helps in particular for Provisioning as it tells you what material is used for what purpose in Provisioning.
I use both, with Sous being more concerned wich material the current character can use.

Kaloran

theyancey wrote: »

. . . Additionally, when I make a staff, a sword, or a robe it says that it was crafted by me. Food and drink should be so imprinted too. After all, I am just as proud of my culinary concoctions as I am with my other creations . . .

Stacking would be problematic if someone has food or drink made by several different folks.

Edit: Quote tag shenanigans.

Llogwey

Sorry I did not read all the 14 pages but I am very very afraid of what will happen for the recipes.
The main problem is to find them, and the problem with the current version of provisionning is that you can only find recipes of your own LEVEL, and faction.
I have no problem with the faction restriction, there is a logic behind it... cultural etc... but there is strictly no reason why you only loot recipe whose difficulty matches your adventure level. That also totally breaks Roleplay...

for example : If you are level 40, no way to loot a level 15 recipes... and I'm sure people here do know well the problem with the level 15 recipes being hard to get because of this loot rule.

If you plan to revamp the recipes loot, please, make it so they are "level agnostic" (not for the crafting, but for the looting) but rather zone-linked. that would be fairer...

I hope you take this into consideration. thank you

Emeliana

So... all my recipies will be rendered useless and those hard-to-find ingredients like tomatoes, saaz-hops, pepper etc that I've spent so many hours collecting, will become "stale" ?? You say there will be a way to offload them "that provides some value"? In other words, be sold to merchants for 1 gold.

If this revamp had been done very early in the game - fine - but it's 4,5 months down the line now and I believe players have learned to deal with the current system. Only thing I'd like to see really is a more balanced drop between ingredients.

To add recipies and also perhaps other ways of finding ingredients and new ingredients is probably ok, but to obliterate the current system as a whole I think will leave a lot of players very disappointed.

Bottom line - I think there are many other much much more important things the developers should work on rather than revamping a crafting-system - such as performance, grouping, quest-issues and bugs that have been left unattended since Beta.

DeathThorn

great but,

what about old provissoning? for example
I got max lvl with that , huge numbers of recipes learned and what now? every think starts again?

and what about use drink and food at one time?
its really strange You can't eat and drink in one time don't you think?

and fish, We can catch a lot of fish in this world but we can't eat them

michaelb14a_ESO2

I think ZOS has abandoned their own thread..... Were they not just pleading for PTS participants? Geez

michaelb14a_ESO2

Double post

Kcttocs

Emeliana wrote: »

So... all my recipies will be rendered useless and those hard-to-find ingredients like tomatoes, saaz-hops, pepper etc that I've spent so many hours collecting, will become "stale" ?? You say there will be a way to offload them "that provides some value"? In other words, be sold to merchants for 1 gold.

Here I pasted the relevant part below. So, a recipe changes, and uses new ingredients, I am willing to bet, said ingredients that the old recipe used, will be changed to what ever the new recipe needs. So if you needed a tomato from the old recipe and the new recipe called for a piece of dung, then the tomato would be changed to a piece of dung for that new dung pie . Take a deep breath... no sense in worrying about something you have no control over.

"Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value."

Chelos

grizzbi wrote: »

- Keep the high rarity of purple recipes (but make them obtainable from everywhere).

Absolutely not. I'm searcing chest and wardrobes since early start and I haven't got a single purple recipie. (Not whining, just stating a fact.) I would like them to be more common. But I can survive on the blue ones I have.
I don't see a reason to be elitist about it. Besides, recepies could be all common, but achieving a "purple" quality result should be rare.
Like everyone can mix the ingredients together but only a good cook can actually make it tasty.
(That's why I rather not have people for dinner...)

kieso

We realize this is a major change and that many of you have invested heavily in leveling up Provisioning

that whole one hour it took. ;p

Lucifer66

I don't like any of it at all. Leave it like it is.
I don't like any of the proposed changes they all suck.
Quit changing stuff that don't need to be changed and just fix the stuff you made in the first place.

This game is getting less and less like Elder Scrolls and more and more like every other MMO. In fact, I'm thinking why bother with this game when I already got 20 more just like it?

They really need a "that sucks" thing to tick at the bottom of proposed ideas when these staff admins post stupid crap like that. All this "positive only" feedback option crap makes me wanna puke. The world ain't sunshine and rainbows, people need to quit living in a fantasy world and take a good dose of "wake the hell up".

(I bet you wish you had that "this sucks" thing to tick now...please refer to my sig)

CirithValaria

Lucifer66 wrote: »

The world ain't sunshine and rainbows, people need to quit living in a fantasy world and take a good dose of "wake the hell up".

Only part I agree with you^^

Personally I think this revamp overall is awesome.
In MMO's things tend to change, as long as majority approves all is good
It's impossible to make everyone happy...

kevlarto_ESO

Overall I like the sound of it, it will be nice to open up some bank space.. I have at least one stack of most ingredients, I guess I am not going to go out of my way for new stuff, and if I come upon a purple or blue recipe, will hang onto them to see if they get converted or go away.

Me and my friends were saying that food and drink should stack, you been listening in on our conversations..LOL

I give the idea a thumbs up

Nightreaver

Lucifer66 wrote: »

I don't like any of it at all. Leave it like it is.
I don't like any of the proposed changes they all suck.
Quit changing stuff that don't need to be changed and just fix the stuff you made in the first place.

This game is getting less and less like Elder Scrolls and more and more like every other MMO. In fact, I'm thinking why bother with this game when I already got 20 more just like it?

They really need a "that sucks" thing to tick at the bottom of proposed ideas when these staff admins post stupid crap like that. All this "positive only" feedback option crap makes me wanna puke. The world ain't sunshine and rainbows, people need to quit living in a fantasy world and take a good dose of "wake the hell up".

(I bet you wish you had that "this sucks" thing to tick now...please refer to my sig)

Wait, so the person that has played 20+ Fantasy MMOs is telling people to quit living in a fantasy world???

And though I would hate for you to make yourself puke, even you must see the "positive" value in the Devs submitting their proposal for review and suggestions to the player base BEFORE actually implementing it.

Are they required to implement our suggestions? No, but real nice to know that they are at least interested in hearing what they are as well as our thoughts on their proposed changes.

And if you think that allowing drinks to be used in conjunction with food would be a bad thing then to hell with you Lucifer66.

Divinius

Put me in the list of people that do NOT really feel that the Provisioning system needs a total revamp. Sure, things like drinks and food stacking would be a more than welcome change, and there's other bugs and issues that could stand to be addressed. But I honestly don't think they need to completely scrap the whole system and start over, like it sounds as though they are planning.

Granted, most all of the changes they listed are things that would have been great if that was how the system was designed BEFORE the game's launch, and so I'll freely admit that the features of the new system sound like pretty impressive improvements over what we currently have. The problem is that actually making these changes now only sounds good IN THEORY.

I'm not trying to sound like a royal pessimist here, and I'm honestly not trying to be antagonistic towards the good folks of ZOS, but to be perfectly frank and honest, given their track record thus far, I have considerable doubts as to ZOS's ability to implement these changes without severely breaking everything.

Here are a few examples of things I see going horribly wrong when they try to implement this new system:

1) Regarding "WYSIWYG" containers for ingredients: As it stands with drops being completely random, there's a reasonable balance of drop rates for the various ingredients. And that balance can be easily adjusted (if necessary) by simply changing the percent chances for the various ingredient containers. But if the new ingredients are based on container type, then the balance of drops would be dependent on what percentages of the different types of containers are available in the game, which is something that I'm sure was never taken into account during zone designs. This could (and IMHO, likely will) lead to gross imbalances in available ingredients, with no way to adjust the balance outside manually of adding/removing various types of containers in every zone throughout the game (lots of work). This one is a prime example of horribly sacrificing simplicity and effectiveness of design for a small amount of "realism" or aesthetics. Bad idea.

2) Regarding "Fewer ingredients and more recipes": True, as it stands, there's a LOT of extra ingredients, since the first several tiers of food have varieties for each alliance. But recipes are simple and straight-forward, and if you focus on only one or two types of recipes, which most people do anyway (say, Daggerfall Covenant Max-Health Food items only), there's a very limited number of ingredients you actually need to keep on hand. To me, it sounds like recipes in the new system are likely to require more and varied ingredients (even if the total list is much smaller) meaning that many players might actually find they need to devote MORE inventory slots to provisioning materials.

3) Regarding the replacement of recipes and ingredients from the old system to the new: In my mind, this whole process is nothing but (please excuse the pun) a recipe for disaster. Unless every single provisioning ingredient is directly (or able to be directly) converted into an equally valuable (in terms of supply and demand) ingredient in the new system, there will be much rage across the playerbase. Same thing with recipes. This is the issue where I most fear for ZOS's ability to properly convert the system, without royally screwing over the players that put the most time and effort into the current system.

All in all, I really do like the concept of a simpler and more streamlined system. But I have very little faith that the conversion to this new system will be anything other than a nightmare.

Just my two septims.

SLy_Kyti

What Divinus just said. Seconded.

I believe the changes were already being planned for implementation by this Dev section. They asked for input so we "feel" invested in the coming changes, abandoning this thread without acknowledging the new replies or ideas.Sad.

I don't support the changes outlined (other than stacking beverage with food). I especially have no confidence, zero, that ZOS can implement this and not screw provision crafting up completely. In short, this is a misadventure that has not been asked for by a vocal majority, nor time/money well-spent by the developers.
*Stamina builds
*Bolt escape
*Broken mundus
*Phasing
*Werewolf parity
These are some of what has been promised since May 2014. Let's get on those shall we? No date has been offered for these fixes.

Woolenthreads

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

/snip

Functionality

• Food and drink categories will have clearer usage
  • Cooking: Meat = health, fruit = magicka, vegetables = stamina
  • Brewing: Alcohol = health, tea = magicka, tonic = stamina
  /snip

I like this. My only misgiving is the functionality. I think you could have tied the Stat Boost and Stat Regen to the specific classes instead, and done it differently. For Instance:

• Meat = Health Boost,
• Fruit = Magicka Boost
• Vegetables = Health Regen
• Alcohol = Stamina Boost
• Tea = Magicka Regen
• Tonic = Stamina Regen

This avoids the food/drink problem where everyone eats only. It also allows for recipes that resemble IRL, like Meat and Veg Pies or Fruit Teas or Christmas Cake .

If someone has already suggested this I apologise, unfortunately I have 14 pages to look at, less than 14 minutes to look and I wanted to make the suggestion before I forgot again.

spoqster

Is there already an ETA for rolling out the stacking of food and drink?

SpAEkus

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Please no matter what the final results of the changes are,

Can you please add to the API, the relevant GUIs and to the Guild Store systems, the ability to identify, sort and search for recipes based on the "Useable by" Character Level.

As it is the popup now only lists a Value, which is the price, and the required Level of Recipe Improvement and Recipe Quality required to make the recipe.

Within Recipe Improvement levels, there can be as many as 15 "Character Useable" levels (Recipe Improvement Level 1) to as few as 2 (Recipe Improvement Level 2).

The only way to actually know if a recipe is Useable is to finally get to the Cooking Fire to open the Food/Drink Crafting GUI.

While much of this information is available from outside the game from player research, it will still not be immediately available as Provisioning is managed or changed in the future by ZOS.

Thank You

Rodario

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I don't mean to badger you guys, but do you have a more precise timetable by now? Update 1.6, 1.7 for example? I'm asking because I'm sitting on three bank alt's worth of food mats and have no idea which ingredients will still be usable after the revamp...

Should I still invest time in farming pepper, or will that one become stale?

Also, please take this opportunity to finally include fish in provisioning (or alchemy, or both)

SpAEkus

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

I guess one other question is what happens to existing food and drinks that have already been made?

Will they retain their current properties and just be used until they no longer exist in player inventories and in Guild Stores?

Or will there be any attempt to also convert them after the changes?