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Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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It's about pve players wanting to participate in the justice system and being effectively locked out because they don't want to open themselves up to interaction with random players, which is pvp.
As for people that still say "you can't force PVP on players": Nobody forces you to steal and break the law so if you do it, if you get caught, if you get killed by other players, you can only blame yourself.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
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It's about pve players wanting to participate in the justice system and being effectively locked out because they don't want to open themselves up to interaction with random players, which is pvp.
As for people that still say "you can't force PVP on players": Nobody forces you to steal and break the law so if you do it, if you get caught, if you get killed by other players, you can only blame yourself.
which is the whole POINT of why you should NOT be stealing in the first place!!
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GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
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It's about pve players wanting to participate in the justice system and being effectively locked out because they don't want to open themselves up to interaction with random players, which is pvp.
As for people that still say "you can't force PVP on players": Nobody forces you to steal and break the law so if you do it, if you get caught, if you get killed by other players, you can only blame yourself.
Can see your point, and I generally avoid PvP in games like these.
But also see the draw of danger for those who want the criminal route. Lots of reward, and lots of risk.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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It's about pve players wanting to participate in the justice system and being effectively locked out because they don't want to open themselves up to interaction with random players, which is pvp.
As for people that still say "you can't force PVP on players": Nobody forces you to steal and break the law so if you do it, if you get caught, if you get killed by other players, you can only blame yourself.
I want to participate in taking forts in Cyrodill (or in an other PVE area with forts that I can capture) but I don't want to fight players, I just want to fight NPCs near flags and towers and entrances.
Sadly its not possible and I don't see people quitting because of it.
Same for Justice system.1 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »
So how does it work when I am minding my business stealthing up behind something in a quest situation and suddenly guard fred is chasing killer bob past me alerting the mob and screwing with my quest?
Far as I can remember I've never had to kill mobs in town, have you? I really don't think this system will be in quest areas.
Possibly, but I remember being chased quite a distance by guards in Skyrim. A justice system would be fairly dull for those wanting to play such a thing if running past a line drawn 5 feet past town makes a thief immune to pursuit.
GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »which is the whole POINT of why you should NOT be stealing in the first place!!
No, let the NPCs stop me. Not you. You go off to Cyrodiil if you want to interact with a random player.0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »which is the whole POINT of why you should NOT be stealing in the first place!!
No, let the NPCs stop me. Not you. You go off to Cyrodiil if you want to interact with a random player.
What about the players that want to experience hunting criminals? Why should only thieves and assassins get to have fun?3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I want to participate in taking forts in Cyrodill (or in an other PVE area with forts that I can capture) but I don't want to fight players, I just want to fight NPCs near flags and towers and entrances.
Sadly its not possible and I don't see people quitting because of it.
Same for Justice system.
It is possible in the justice system however and should be possible, because it's a pve zone. However not doing pvp in the pvp zone is not possible.1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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But also see the draw of danger for those who want the criminal route. Lots of reward, and lots of risk.
Well, if there is no risk being a guard then expect everyone to play guards and destroy all the new players to the game, over and over till they unsub.
Either it's not going to be pvp as such, or there will be many tears.0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
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But also see the draw of danger for those who want the criminal route. Lots of reward, and lots of risk.
Well, if there is no risk being a guard then expect everyone to play guards and destroy all the new players to the game, over and over till they unsub.
Either it's not going to be pvp as such, or there will be many tears.
Think we could add some risk there too: If criminal activity goes unchecked in your assigned area (because the criminals are too good), you could lose your job or lose XP.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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But also see the draw of danger for those who want the criminal route. Lots of reward, and lots of risk.
Well, if there is no risk being a guard then expect everyone to play guards and destroy all the new players to the game, over and over till they unsub.
Either it's not going to be pvp as such, or there will be many tears.
Pure speculation based on 0 facts. Plus why would guards destroy all the new players? Why would everybody be a guard? I know I wouldn't be
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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But also see the draw of danger for those who want the criminal route. Lots of reward, and lots of risk.
Well, if there is no risk being a guard then expect everyone to play guards and destroy all the new players to the game, over and over till they unsub.
Either it's not going to be pvp as such, or there will be many tears.
Think we could add some risk there too: If criminal activity goes unchecked in your assigned area (because the criminals are too good), you could lose your job or lose XP.
Presumably, you will also be killable by bounty targets.----
Murray?2 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, an upcoming patch will include a justice system, being able to kill NPCs, the possibility of going to jail, being hunted by guards, etc etc.
What about other players?
I remember when I was young and played MU Online, one had the possibility to attack other players. If you killed too many, you became hunted for a period of time (it took a lot of time to log out and the timer would stop untill you reconected again).
While being an Outlaw, any other player/group of players could kill you without penalties and get a special Title by doing so.
Ofc there should be limitations so that a VR12 doesn't go to a level 1-10 area & burns it to the ground, there should also be some incentive to become an outlaw and to killing outlaws (other than the title), like get a copy of a piece of gear the person has (with limitations to avoid duplicating rare dropables) or maybe a special "outlaw" and "justiciar" skill line.
A lot of things could be done and be fun. I think it could be entertaining to have such a system for maybe VR ranks.
I would be all kinds of thrilled if they added open world PVP to this game.
I hated the idea of open world pvp for all the usual reasons - didn't want to be harrassed, imagined a total gank-fest, felt quite precious about my character dying etc.
Then I tried ArchAge and honestly, open world PVP adds a layer of tension/excitement to an mmo that you just don't get otherwise. It also promoted fantastic camaraderie and intra-guild alliances etc. This game with open world PVP would be epic, I promise that to anyone with reservations
Allow cross-platform transfers and merges1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
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Heck yeah.nerevarine1138 wrote: »
But also see the draw of danger for those who want the criminal route. Lots of reward, and lots of risk.
Well, if there is no risk being a guard then expect everyone to play guards and destroy all the new players to the game, over and over till they unsub.
Either it's not going to be pvp as such, or there will be many tears.
Think we could add some risk there too: If criminal activity goes unchecked in your assigned area (because the criminals are too good), you could lose your job or lose XP.
Presumably, you will also be killable by bounty targets.
Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So, an upcoming patch will include a justice system, being able to kill NPCs, the possibility of going to jail, being hunted by guards, etc etc.
What about other players?
I remember when I was young and played MU Online, one had the possibility to attack other players. If you killed too many, you became hunted for a period of time (it took a lot of time to log out and the timer would stop untill you reconected again).
While being an Outlaw, any other player/group of players could kill you without penalties and get a special Title by doing so.
Ofc there should be limitations so that a VR12 doesn't go to a level 1-10 area & burns it to the ground, there should also be some incentive to become an outlaw and to killing outlaws (other than the title), like get a copy of a piece of gear the person has (with limitations to avoid duplicating rare dropables) or maybe a special "outlaw" and "justiciar" skill line.
A lot of things could be done and be fun. I think it could be entertaining to have such a system for maybe VR ranks.
I would be all kinds of thrilled if they added open world PVP to this game.
I hated the idea of open world pvp for all the usual reasons - didn't want to be harrassed, imagined a total gank-fest, felt quite precious about my character dying etc.
Then I tried ArchAge and honestly, open world PVP adds a layer of tension/excitement to an mmo that you just don't get otherwise. It also promoted fantastic camaraderie and intra-guild alliances etc. This game with open world PVP would be epic, I promise that to anyone with reservations
Yeah ArchAge's aproach to justice system is very nice and I agree with you. Yet sadly some people seem not to want this game to be anything else but a hack n slash
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭obey the laws of not stealing and youll be fine
Edited by Gilvoth on July 10, 2014 6:29PM1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why would everybody be a guard?
Everyone will be a guard because pvp in a pve area is just a griefing system, and being a guard will allow maximum griefing fun. Best place to go will be the lowest level area, where you can take out players the easiest.
Facts and evidence supporting this are found in every game that had pvp and pve areas mixed up, especially in town areas.
Still, I suspect they're not stupid enough to do this, and the guard skill will be a separate thing from kill skills. If they are well...0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why would everybody be a guard?
Everyone will be a guard because pvp in a pve area is just a griefing system, and being a guard will allow maximum griefing fun. Best place to go will be the lowest level area, where you can take out players the easiest.
Facts and evidence supporting this are found in every game that had pvp and pve areas mixed up, especially in town areas.
Still, I suspect they're not stupid enough to do this, and the guard skill will be a separate thing from kill skills. If they are well...
This is more for people who will read your post and think that there's some kind of truth to it than for you...
Griefing will not be possible if the system works as ZO employees have described it. Being detected committing a crime flags you in the system. And let's be clear: you have to choose to commit that crime and be detected doing it for the system to flag you with a bounty. Then, and only then, do you become a target for guards, and only guards. Once the bounty is killed/captured (or, speculatively, if they get the Thieves Guild to take the bounty off), the player is no longer tagged. Griefing is impossible, because the player can't be killed repeatedly unless they repeatedly go back and get detected in the act.----
Murray?3 -
epoling✭✭✭✭I like that the OP totally jumped all over my mention of ganking in PvP but totally ignored the fact that in previous games it has been easy to accidentally get ensnared in the justice system. And I can just see a bunch of jerks sitting around town waiting for somebody to accidentally press the wrong button on their keyboard so they get flagged by the justice system. I can't tell you how many times in ESO I have accidentally used my mouse buttons because it is what I am used to in other games. With this idea, I hit my mouse button because it is standard move key in my other games and instead I kill an NPC with a blast from my staff. All of a sudden I am jumped by a bunch of folks just waiting for that little mistake and I am dead. No fun... Of course, like I said before, everybody is talking without any idea what is going to happen, so it is pretty much moot.
Also, the original post had a whole section on the notion of griefing and tagging people as outlaws. I don't understand why the OP, after including that in his post, then tries to negate it when I spoke to what he wrote. Below is a direct quote from his original post:
"Ofc there should be limitations so that a VR12 doesn't go to a level 1-10 area & burns it to the ground, there should also be some incentive to become an outlaw and to killing outlaws (other than the title), like get a copy of a piece of gear the person has (with limitations to avoid duplicating rare dropables) or maybe a special "outlaw" and "justiciar" skill line."Edited by epoling on July 10, 2014 6:40PM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Griefing will not be possible.
Griefing is possible, because griefing is simply messing up someone's game experience whether it's a single hate comment (say targeting their race or gender or sexual orientation) or a single kill in a pve zone, or maybe two or three kills in humiliating ways.
Griefing is also something achieved on the other end, by the griefer - and that's the pleasure you get from messing up someone's day. Doesn't matter whether it's the same target or many targets, the pleasure received stacks up just the same.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like that the OP totally jumped all over my mention of ganking in PvP but totally ignored the fact that in previous games it has been easy to accidentally get ensnared in the justice system. And I can just see a bunch of jerks sitting around town waiting for somebody to accidentally press the wrong button on their keyboard so they get flagged by the justice system. I can't tell you how many times in ESO I have accidentally used my mouse buttons because it is what I am used to in other games. With this idea, I hit my mouse button because it is standard move key in my other games and instead I kill an NPC with a blast from my staff. All of a sudden I am jumped by a bunch of folks just waiting for that little mistake and I am dead. No fun... Of course, like I said before, everybody is talking without any idea what is going to happen, so it is pretty much moot.
Again, based on everything we've heard, accidental hits won't be possible. Assassinations will most likely be contracts, and only that NPC will be killable. They certainly won't allow merchants or quest-givers to be killed at random.
They've been quite clear on the fact that being a thief or assassin will be a specific choice the player has to make, and you will have to join the guild(s) to make that choice. You will not be able to assassinate anyone at any time just for funsies.----
Murray?2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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Doesn't matter about "anyone you like", all that matters is you can. Best way to do it will be to hang around the low level areas as a guard.nerevarine1138 wrote: »You will not be able to assassinate anyone at any time just for funsies.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
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then they (low levels) can just pay the fine and all will be good to go
Doesn't matter about "anyone you like", all that matters is you can. Best way to do it will be to hang around the low level areas as a guard.nerevarine1138 wrote: »You will not be able to assassinate anyone at any time just for funsies.
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »
then they (low levels) can just pay the fine and all will be good to go
Doesn't matter about "anyone you like", all that matters is you can. Best way to do it will be to hang around the low level areas as a guard.nerevarine1138 wrote: »You will not be able to assassinate anyone at any time just for funsies.
Still a win - you just cost that guy 500 gold.1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »
then they (low levels) can just pay the fine and all will be good to go
Doesn't matter about "anyone you like", all that matters is you can. Best way to do it will be to hang around the low level areas as a guard.nerevarine1138 wrote: »You will not be able to assassinate anyone at any time just for funsies.
Still a win - you just cost that guy 500 gold.
...I can't believe you managed to suck me back in to this...
How? How have you cost anyone 500 gold?----
Murray?1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »
then they (low levels) can just pay the fine and all will be good to go
Doesn't matter about "anyone you like", all that matters is you can. Best way to do it will be to hang around the low level areas as a guard.nerevarine1138 wrote: »You will not be able to assassinate anyone at any time just for funsies.
Still a win - you just cost that guy 500 gold.
...I can't believe you managed to suck me back in to this...
How? How have you cost anyone 500 gold?
We were talking about a fine, the number I just randomly made up. Read up there^Edited by babylon on July 10, 2014 6:45PM0 -
epoling✭✭✭✭Sorry, but if it works like the regular games, certain NPCs will just be flagged as necessary. That NPC standing nearby is fair game. Those are the ones people will kill by accident. And they haven't said that it will work any differently. Of course, everybody keeps ignoring the fact that we just don't know enough about it to even speculate.0
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »
then they (low levels) can just pay the fine and all will be good to go
Doesn't matter about "anyone you like", all that matters is you can. Best way to do it will be to hang around the low level areas as a guard.nerevarine1138 wrote: »You will not be able to assassinate anyone at any time just for funsies.
Still a win - you just cost that guy 500 gold.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »
then they (low levels) can just pay the fine and all will be good to go
Doesn't matter about "anyone you like", all that matters is you can. Best way to do it will be to hang around the low level areas as a guard.nerevarine1138 wrote: »You will not be able to assassinate anyone at any time just for funsies.
Still a win - you just cost that guy 500 gold.
...I can't believe you managed to suck me back in to this...
How? How have you cost anyone 500 gold?
We were talking about a fine, the number I just randomly made up. Read up there^
1. They don't have to pay the fine.
2. 500g is nothing, even at low levels.
3. Most importantly, the player will then learn the value of not being seen.----
Murray?2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iccYSakHZaE