Maintenance for the week of January 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.
-
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Cyrodiil is for PvP.
PvP should not happen in PvE zones except if somewhere in the future they add some kind of Arena there.
Pretty much this.
If i want to PvP i go to cyrodiil.
Want a pissed PvE player? Allow others to keep killing them while they are just trying to do quests and so on.
Hell , i got pissed just from going down 3 times while gathering all the cyrodiil shards.
You little minx you!
I see what you did there.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The only one am I? Okay then, it's not pvp. It's not open world. Here's hoping we get to stop other players by screaming "stop thief! stahp!" at the top of our lungs to make it so it certainly is not open world pvp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_playerPlayer killing, or PKing, is non-consensual PvP resulting in a character's death. Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world
You comited a crime, NPC saw you and reacted (first warning) guards are allready after you (2nd warning), you know players are part of Guards guild (3rd warning).
So that's 3 warnings. Can't say you where attacked anywhere in the world, can't say you didn't have a warning and if you don't break the rules and enter the justice system, then you cannot be randomly attacked anywhere in the game world.
THUS it is not open pvp.
Really? Now you want to argue about pvp being something that requires no warning?
So if I run up to another player in Cyrodiil and go all "hey I'm about to kill you" (warning) then kill him, I did not experience pvp? Gotcha. Only responding because this is hilarious.0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »
If i want to PvP i go to cyrodiil.
Just make sure you don't warn anyone of your intentions because according to the highly esteemed magnusnet up there you won't actually be doing any pvp.0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The only one am I? Okay then, it's not pvp. It's not open world. Here's hoping we get to stop other players by screaming "stop thief! stahp!" at the top of our lungs to make it so it certainly is not open world pvp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_playerPlayer killing, or PKing, is non-consensual PvP resulting in a character's death. Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world
You comited a crime, NPC saw you and reacted (first warning) guards are allready after you (2nd warning), you know players are part of Guards guild (3rd warning).
So that's 3 warnings. Can't say you where attacked anywhere in the world, can't say you didn't have a warning and if you don't break the rules and enter the justice system, then you cannot be randomly attacked anywhere in the game world.
THUS it is not open pvp.
Really? Now you want to argue about pvp being something that requires no warning?
So if I run up to another player in Cyrodiil and go all "hey I'm about to kill you" (warning) then kill him, I did not experience pvp? Gotcha. Only responding because this is hilarious.
You're just throwing out the world open pvp and I'm just telling you you're wrong since the description of the systems doesn't fit in the description of Open World PVP. Deal with it.1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Again, unless you choose for your player to be a criminal or guard, you wouldn't be affected.
At all.
But if you do become a criminal, and you're a stupid one...@xxxx[{::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »
If i want to PvP i go to cyrodiil.
Just make sure you don't warn anyone of your intentions because according to the highly esteemed magnusnet up there you won't actually be doing any pvp.
In Cyrodill, you can be attacked without warning so it's open world pvp.
In justice system you canot be attacked without warning so it's not open world pvp.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on July 10, 2014 3:17PM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »
If i want to PvP i go to cyrodiil.
Just make sure you don't warn anyone of your intentions because according to the highly esteemed magnusnet up there you won't actually be doing any pvp.
In Cyrodill, you can be attacked without warning so it's open world pvp.
In justice system you canot be attacked without warning so it's not open world pvp.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
I just stopped by to report the flamepost, but aside from that your definition is still way off. As stated, it's open world pvp with an opt-in system or flagging system if you will.
Though I still suspect the mechanics for nabbing a thief or killer as a guard will be a new skill of some sort, rather than kill skills.Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on July 10, 2014 3:17PM1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hmmm, perhaps this would allow the introduction of bounty hunters.
Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
although bots seemed to have slowed or perhaps I'm just not around them anymore I did send some feedback about finding a way to mark bots who kill a certain NPC or type x amount of times and making those "players" kill-enabled to other players. oh how sweet it would be to actively ruin a gold farmer's day!2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And seems I was right. ignoring @babylon now.Nox_Aeterna wrote: »
If i want to PvP i go to cyrodiil.
Just make sure you don't warn anyone of your intentions because according to the highly esteemed magnusnet up there you won't actually be doing any pvp.
In Cyrodill, you can be attacked without warning so it's open world pvp.
In justice system you canot be attacked without warning so it's not open world pvp.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
I just stopped by to report the flamepost, but aside from that your definition is still way off. As stated, it's open world pvp with an opt-in system or flagging system if you will.
Though I still suspect the mechanics for nabbing a thief or killer as a guard will be a new skill of some sort, rather than kill skills.
Is ok, you got the message, mods can delete it 8).
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on July 10, 2014 3:20PM0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Cyrodiil is for PvP.
PvP should not happen in PvE zones except if somewhere in the future they add some kind of Arena there.
Pretty much this.
If i want to PvP i go to cyrodiil.
Want a pissed PvE player? Allow others to keep killing them while they are just trying to do quests and so on.
Hell , i got pissed just from going down 3 times while gathering all the cyrodiil shards.
Again, this wouldn't be an issue in the justice system.
You aren't going to randomly have a bounty assigned to you while you're out questing.----
Murray?3 -
Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭This seems to me to be another call for Open World PVP, or Dueling, or the big ePeen flag...
No matter how you try to couch the request, it's just a request for open pvp and/or dueling... allow me to opt out and ignore you and I may agree, but to be a PKer, you have to kill players... to kill players you must be able to attack them, normally in a non-duel setting...
Adding Open World PvP would please the lowest of the hard core PvPers, the gankers and it would alienate the majority of the PvE players, and from past experience, there are a lot more of us (PvE) then you (PvP).Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...5 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
You're willfully missing the point. People will enjoy interacting with NPCs in this new system, while they may not enjoy interacting with other players in this new system. It's something I hope ZOS already understand, and if not, they soon will once the forums riot and servers start yelling at them. If this is indeed open world pvp, most of the carnage will be occurring in the forums.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
snip
You're deliberately trying to change the entire concept of the justice system, as it has existed for over 20 years in the series.
I'm sure people will enjoy being able to steal from and assassinate specific targets. It has always been an enjoyable part of the single-player games.
And just like the single-player games, players will quickly find out that they cannot walk up to a person on a crowded street and stab them without suffering some consequences. What you're asking for is a crime system devoid of risk, which is not fun for anyone.
And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
Actually this would change how the justice system worked for 20 years. In all TES games there were consequences for crime but the consequence was never a changed of game mode. TES was pve with pve consequences. There should and there can be quite a bit of harsh consequences for crime without having to PVP. Being attacked in town by guards, being barred from quests , merchants, guilds, crafting station, various economic penalties are very adequate PvE consequences.ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The point that so many appear to have completely missed is that the proposed system would require an opt-in, so unless you purposefully opted-in, you'd be completely unaffected.No matter how you try to couch the request, it's just a request for open pvp and/or dueling... allow me to opt out and ignore you and I may agree ...
Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This seems to me to be another call for Open World PVP, or Dueling, or the big ePeen flag...
No matter how you try to couch the request, it's just a request for open pvp and/or dueling... allow me to opt out and ignore you and I may agree, but to be a PKer, you have to kill players... to kill players you must be able to attack them, normally in a non-duel setting...
Adding Open World PvP would please the lowest of the hard core PvPers, the gankers and it would alienate the majority of the PvE players, and from past experience, there are a lot more of us (PvE) then you (PvP).
Well then PVEr's wouldn't have a problem uniting and killing PVPr's?
Jokes apart, as it has been said in OP (not talking about the justice system that was out of subject), it would be nice if it where for some zones, not all of them.
You're free to avoid those zones if you don't want to be in open world pvp.0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The point that so many appear to have completely missed is that the proposed system would require an opt-in, so unless you purposefully opted-in, you'd be completely unaffected.No matter how you try to couch the request, it's just a request for open pvp and/or dueling... allow me to opt out and ignore you and I may agree ...
The thing you might be missing is that people just might want to experience the justice system without being forced to interact with other players. Many will prefer this only being a pve thing and would rather only to be dealing with NPCs.
Otherwise those players might feel that this exciting update is effectively denied to them - a whole game system they feel they can't experience because their preference is to choose who they want to interact with.
The only way to limit the damage to reception of this game system is to make it so the skills being used by the "guard players" are not regular kill skills.Edited by babylon on July 10, 2014 3:35PM0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
You're willfully missing the point. People will enjoy interacting with NPCs in this new system, while they may not enjoy interacting with other players in this new system. It's something I hope ZOS already understand, and if not, they soon will once the forums riot and servers start yelling at them. If this is indeed open world pvp, most of the carnage will be occurring in the forums.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
snip
You're deliberately trying to change the entire concept of the justice system, as it has existed for over 20 years in the series.
I'm sure people will enjoy being able to steal from and assassinate specific targets. It has always been an enjoyable part of the single-player games.
And just like the single-player games, players will quickly find out that they cannot walk up to a person on a crowded street and stab them without suffering some consequences. What you're asking for is a crime system devoid of risk, which is not fun for anyone.
And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
Actually this would change how the justice system worked for 20 years. In all TES games there were consequences for crime but the consequence was never a changed of game mode. TES was pve with pve consequences. There should and there can be quite a bit of harsh consequences for crime without having to PVP. Being attacked in town by guards, being barred from quests , merchants, guilds, crafting station, various economic penalties are very adequate PvE consequences.
As @nerevarine1138 said before, one of the purposes of the MMO is having players partake on tasks that used to be handeled by NPCs.
Following your logic, there shouldn't be Guilds, Guild Stores, you shouldn't be able to trade or even use game chat. You shouldn't be able to group either since grouping was made with NPCs.
So it wouldn't change how the justice system worked, it would let players partake in it.0 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
You're willfully missing the point. People will enjoy interacting with NPCs in this new system, while they may not enjoy interacting with other players in this new system. It's something I hope ZOS already understand, and if not, they soon will once the forums riot and servers start yelling at them. If this is indeed open world pvp, most of the carnage will be occurring in the forums.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
snip
You're deliberately trying to change the entire concept of the justice system, as it has existed for over 20 years in the series.
I'm sure people will enjoy being able to steal from and assassinate specific targets. It has always been an enjoyable part of the single-player games.
And just like the single-player games, players will quickly find out that they cannot walk up to a person on a crowded street and stab them without suffering some consequences. What you're asking for is a crime system devoid of risk, which is not fun for anyone.
And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
Actually this would change how the justice system worked for 20 years. In all TES games there were consequences for crime but the consequence was never a changed of game mode. TES was pve with pve consequences. There should and there can be quite a bit of harsh consequences for crime without having to PVP. Being attacked in town by guards, being barred from quests , merchants, guilds, crafting station, various economic penalties are very adequate PvE consequences.
As @nerevarine1138 said before, one of the purposes of the MMO is having players partake on tasks that used to be handeled by NPCs.
Following your logic, there shouldn't be Guilds, Guild Stores, you shouldn't be able to trade or even use game chat. You shouldn't be able to group either since grouping was made with NPCs.
So it wouldn't change how the justice system worked, it would let players partake in it.
What I am saying that PVP should be a choice and a classic TES feature that was always a PVE should not become an exclusive forced PVP experience. There should be a option for people to flag themselves for crime system PVP for people that are into that.There should be an option for people to just deal with only PVE consequences for crime.
If most people are going for the exclusive PVE crime and you don't have enough targets that is your problem. If people do not enjoy pvp they should not be forced to do it just for your pleasure.
Let's not forget that this is also a very theme park mmo and in most cases the players do not and should not take the roles of the npcs.Edited by PBpsy on July 10, 2014 4:12PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)1 -
Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭This seems to me to be another call for Open World PVP, or Dueling, or the big ePeen flag...
No matter how you try to couch the request, it's just a request for open pvp and/or dueling... allow me to opt out and ignore you and I may agree, but to be a PKer, you have to kill players... to kill players you must be able to attack them, normally in a non-duel setting...
Adding Open World PvP would please the lowest of the hard core PvPers, the gankers and it would alienate the majority of the PvE players, and from past experience, there are a lot more of us (PvE) then you (PvP).
Well then PVEr's wouldn't have a problem uniting and killing PVPr's?
Jokes apart, as it has been said in OP (not talking about the justice system that was out of subject), it would be nice if it where for some zones, not all of them.
You're free to avoid those zones if you don't want to be in open world pvp.
First, I did like your joke... now eat all your Brussels Sprouts or no ice cream...
Part of the problem is the mechanics of it, how the "Criminals" become criminals... ESO is a game where we are kind of expected to run into someone's house and search their cabinets and drawers... even their bedside tables... we ransack their kitchens and store rooms and take their food... to make this part of the game all of a sudden "Against the Law" would do harm to the Cooks and other Crafters...
I have seen posts with the idea of a Justice System, as well as a number of threads talking about it, but as with everything else, until it's implemented, we can only guess.
As for my avoiding zones, I do that now, I don't venture into Cyrodiil beyond the initial training quests. Cyrodiil is a huge area and there are several campaigns multiplying the area, lets name one "Justice" and let everyone in there fight everyone else in there (no faction limitations)... or perhaps "Arena" so you can challenge your fellow alliance members... then everyone would have the most obvious of ways to opt in or out, if you show up in the "Justice" campaign, it's a free for all... "Arena" allows you to hoist your ePeen Flag and waive it about, and in both cases, it will not disturb me or those like me that don't care for that aspect of the game.Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...1 -
nerevarine1138 wrote: »
You're willfully missing the point. People will enjoy interacting with NPCs in this new system, while they may not enjoy interacting with other players in this new system. It's something I hope ZOS already understand, and if not, they soon will once the forums riot and servers start yelling at them. If this is indeed open world pvp, most of the carnage will be occurring in the forums.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
snip
You're deliberately trying to change the entire concept of the justice system, as it has existed for over 20 years in the series.
I'm sure people will enjoy being able to steal from and assassinate specific targets. It has always been an enjoyable part of the single-player games.
And just like the single-player games, players will quickly find out that they cannot walk up to a person on a crowded street and stab them without suffering some consequences. What you're asking for is a crime system devoid of risk, which is not fun for anyone.
And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
Actually this would change how the justice system worked for 20 years. In all TES games there were consequences for crime but the consequence was never a changed of game mode. TES was pve with pve consequences. There should and there can be quite a bit of harsh consequences for crime without having to PVP. Being attacked in town by guards, being barred from quests , merchants, guilds, crafting station, various economic penalties are very adequate PvE consequences.
As @nerevarine1138 said before, one of the purposes of the MMO is having players partake on tasks that used to be handeled by NPCs.
Following your logic, there shouldn't be Guilds, Guild Stores, you shouldn't be able to trade or even use game chat. You shouldn't be able to group either since grouping was made with NPCs.
So it wouldn't change how the justice system worked, it would let players partake in it.
I think you are falling into a logical fallacy here. One does not beget another. Just because I, for example, would be fine with these things from PVE/NPC sources (and not other players) does not mean that I would or would not (or anyone) enjoy other interaction of a neutral manner with other players.
I don't agree that the purpose of MMOs is always to have tasks of NPCs taken by the players. In fact I want to play WITH my friends in a co-op manner. That doesn't mean they would take over any NPC duties at all.
That is why it is PVE. Player vs enviroment as apposed to PvP player verses player (and please note I did not say world anywhere in this post-lol)0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
You're willfully missing the point. People will enjoy interacting with NPCs in this new system, while they may not enjoy interacting with other players in this new system. It's something I hope ZOS already understand, and if not, they soon will once the forums riot and servers start yelling at them. If this is indeed open world pvp, most of the carnage will be occurring in the forums.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
snip
You're deliberately trying to change the entire concept of the justice system, as it has existed for over 20 years in the series.
I'm sure people will enjoy being able to steal from and assassinate specific targets. It has always been an enjoyable part of the single-player games.
And just like the single-player games, players will quickly find out that they cannot walk up to a person on a crowded street and stab them without suffering some consequences. What you're asking for is a crime system devoid of risk, which is not fun for anyone.
And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
Actually this would change how the justice system worked for 20 years. In all TES games there were consequences for crime but the consequence was never a changed of game mode. TES was pve with pve consequences. There should and there can be quite a bit of harsh consequences for crime without having to PVP. Being attacked in town by guards, being barred from quests , merchants, guilds, crafting station, various economic penalties are very adequate PvE consequences.
As @nerevarine1138 said before, one of the purposes of the MMO is having players partake on tasks that used to be handeled by NPCs.
Following your logic, there shouldn't be Guilds, Guild Stores, you shouldn't be able to trade or even use game chat. You shouldn't be able to group either since grouping was made with NPCs.
So it wouldn't change how the justice system worked, it would let players partake in it.
What I am saying that PVP should be a choice and a classic TES feature that was always a PVE should not become an exclusive forced PVP experience. There should be a option for people to flag themselves for crime system PVP for people that are into that.There should be an option for people to just deal with only PVE consequences for crime.
If most people are going for the exclusive PVE crime and you don't have enough targets that is your problem. If people do not enjoy pvp they should not be forced to do it just for your pleasure.
Let's not forget that this is also a very theme park mmo and in most cases the players do not and should not take the roles of the npcs.
Describing the Elder Scrolls series as "PvE" is disingenuous. It's always been a single-player series, which means that "PvP" wasn't actually possible.
To answer this and a few other posts: yes, an MMO means that many (not all, but many) tasks that NPCs performed in the single-player game will go to the players. And here's why.
In Skyrim (just using it as an example because it's the most recent and easiest to reference), you could be a thief and/or assassin. Or you could kill thieves and assassins. You had that choice. Breaking the law and getting caught meant having to deal with guards, who were NPCs by virtue of the fact that the game was single-player. Now, let's look at ESO. They're going to introduce a justice system, which will enable players to commit crimes. If they didn't allow players to also be guards, the system would be unfair and have no real risk or balance. Let's look at these one at a time.
Why would that system be unfair? Because in order to participate, I need to become a criminal. If I'm playing a character who has a strict moral code, that's not an option for me. Which means I miss out on an entire update's worth of content.
Why no risk? Well, we first need to stipulate that risk is what makes crime fun. Otherwise, there's no thrill to committing an in-game crime. If my only risk is that some NPC guards may try and chase me down, I'm not in any trouble. I can outrun NPCs, and if I really don't want to bother, I can just commit my crimes in a lower-level area so that I can always kill the guards that chase me. If, on the other hand, my risk is that being detected flags me to players, I no longer have the benefit of being able to always escape. Committing a crime then carries some serious risks, and I need to weigh them against the benefits before I commit to my course of action.
Crimes have consequences. That's been the case in every single Elder Scrolls game. The only way for the justice system to truly be an MMO version of what we've become used to in the single-player series is by letting players take on the roles of guards. There is no other way that is fair and balanced, nor is there a better way to ensure that the justice system continues to be a major part of the game as it grows.----
Murray?1 -
epoling✭✭✭✭I have on occasion run accidentally run afoul of the law in the single player games. Hit the wrong key on the keyboard and shoot the old lady instead of buy the sweet rolls kind of thing. I could always load a saved game or run away long enough and it didn't matter. I don't see an accident being so easy to fix with a PvP based justice system unless they are going to give us a few random slip ups as freebies. I don't want to be PKed just because I meant to say "Yes, sweet rolls at 5 gold sound delicious" and my computer glitched and smacked her in the head. (We all know these things happen.)
Of course, one of the real issues in this thread is we don't know what ZOS currently has on the boards for a justice system. It is all speculation. They said a small amount of PvP will occur, but we don't really know what form that will take. Any hostile action one player takes against another, whether kill skill or arrest skill, can be considered PvP. So until they tell us exactly what they are doing, we are all just making stuff up. Personally, if it means I become flagged for PK because of an accident, I will delete this game from my hard drive in a second. I hate the whole concept of PvP and don't want to be forced to play it any more than I will force others not to be able to play it as long as we both agree to leave each other alone in that regard.
And as for the idea that people won't want a reputation as an "Outlaw" or want the associated penalties? Laughable!! One of the big reasons that PvP seems to be so wanted is that there are a lot of psychopaths that don't care about the repercussions, they just like killing random people without consequences. You see it in every game I have played where there is PvP. (I may not do that play style, but I am friends with people who do - they do talk about the bad apples.) And they usually hone their skills at murdering other player characters (yeah, these guys are not about any of the high falutin' "testing skills", "challenge", etc talk - they are all about murder) that they can usually survive the meager gangs that try to get revenge on them. The OPs notion that these things would deter the psychos from ganking folks shows he is either woefully misinformed on the effectiveness of these strategies or he is really just somebody who wants the ability to murder other characters at will. I am not judging which of these is true, he seems reasonable, so I am guessing he just wants to believe the hardcore psychos don't exist.5 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have on occasion run accidentally run afoul of the law in the single player games. Hit the wrong key on the keyboard and shoot the old lady instead of buy the sweet rolls kind of thing. I could always load a saved game or run away long enough and it didn't matter. I don't see an accident being so easy to fix with a PvP based justice system unless they are going to give us a few random slip ups as freebies. I don't want to be PKed just because I meant to say "Yes, sweet rolls at 5 gold sound delicious" and my computer glitched and smacked her in the head. (We all know these things happen.)
Of course, one of the real issues in this thread is we don't know what ZOS currently has on the boards for a justice system. It is all speculation. They said a small amount of PvP will occur, but we don't really know what form that will take. Any hostile action one player takes against another, whether kill skill or arrest skill, can be considered PvP. So until they tell us exactly what they are doing, we are all just making stuff up. Personally, if it means I become flagged for PK because of an accident, I will delete this game from my hard drive in a second. I hate the whole concept of PvP and don't want to be forced to play it any more than I will force others not to be able to play it as long as we both agree to leave each other alone in that regard.
And as for the idea that people won't want a reputation as an "Outlaw" or want the associated penalties? Laughable!! One of the big reasons that PvP seems to be so wanted is that there are a lot of psychopaths that don't care about the repercussions, they just like killing random people without consequences. You see it in every game I have played where there is PvP. (I may not do that play style, but I am friends with people who do - they do talk about the bad apples.) And they usually hone their skills at murdering other player characters (yeah, these guys are not about any of the high falutin' "testing skills", "challenge", etc talk - they are all about murder) that they can usually survive the meager gangs that try to get revenge on them. The OPs notion that these things would deter the psychos from ganking folks shows he is either woefully misinformed on the effectiveness of these strategies or he is really just somebody who wants the ability to murder other characters at will. I am not judging which of these is true, he seems reasonable, so I am guessing he just wants to believe the hardcore psychos don't exist.
I can't believe I've had to say this so many times: ganking will not be possible if the player doesn't flag themselves. They've been very clear that players will be criminals or guards. So if a player isn't a guard, they can't just kill random people. And if they're a criminal, they can't just kill random people. They have to both be participating in the system. Nothing they have said points to an open-world PvP situation where you can kill any player at will, much less a system where you can "accidentally" hit a friendly NPC.----
Murray?3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cyrodiil is for PvP.
PvP should not happen in PvE zones except if somewhere in the future they add some kind of Arena there.
then the prison system should send you directly to the ONLY prison and jail in elderscrolls online which should be in Cryodiil!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117602/prison-added-to-justice-system-good-day-sir/p1
0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
I can't believe I've had to say this so many times: ganking will not be possible if the player doesn't flag themselves.
Well I can't believe I have to say this again - making a system in the open world that flags people for pvp will effectively shut a bunch of subscribers out of that system.
ZOS hopefully has made it so it isn't exactly pvp as such, and uses a new skill just for that purpose, and even then there will be many who absolutely will be upset and angry they have interaction with other players forced upon them. A better system again would be to make it so players could choose to open their experience with the justice system up to other players, or just leave it confined to NPC interaction only.Edited by babylon on July 10, 2014 6:04PM0 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »I have on occasion run accidentally run afoul of the law in the single player games. Hit the wrong key on the keyboard and shoot the old lady instead of buy the sweet rolls kind of thing. I could always load a saved game or run away long enough and it didn't matter. I don't see an accident being so easy to fix with a PvP based justice system unless they are going to give us a few random slip ups as freebies. I don't want to be PKed just because I meant to say "Yes, sweet rolls at 5 gold sound delicious" and my computer glitched and smacked her in the head. (We all know these things happen.)
Of course, one of the real issues in this thread is we don't know what ZOS currently has on the boards for a justice system. It is all speculation. They said a small amount of PvP will occur, but we don't really know what form that will take. Any hostile action one player takes against another, whether kill skill or arrest skill, can be considered PvP. So until they tell us exactly what they are doing, we are all just making stuff up. Personally, if it means I become flagged for PK because of an accident, I will delete this game from my hard drive in a second. I hate the whole concept of PvP and don't want to be forced to play it any more than I will force others not to be able to play it as long as we both agree to leave each other alone in that regard.
And as for the idea that people won't want a reputation as an "Outlaw" or want the associated penalties? Laughable!! One of the big reasons that PvP seems to be so wanted is that there are a lot of psychopaths that don't care about the repercussions, they just like killing random people without consequences. You see it in every game I have played where there is PvP. (I may not do that play style, but I am friends with people who do - they do talk about the bad apples.) And they usually hone their skills at murdering other player characters (yeah, these guys are not about any of the high falutin' "testing skills", "challenge", etc talk - they are all about murder) that they can usually survive the meager gangs that try to get revenge on them. The OPs notion that these things would deter the psychos from ganking folks shows he is either woefully misinformed on the effectiveness of these strategies or he is really just somebody who wants the ability to murder other characters at will. I am not judging which of these is true, he seems reasonable, so I am guessing he just wants to believe the hardcore psychos don't exist.
I can't believe I've had to say this so many times: ganking will not be possible if the player doesn't flag themselves. They've been very clear that players will be criminals or guards. So if a player isn't a guard, they can't just kill random people. And if they're a criminal, they can't just kill random people. They have to both be participating in the system. Nothing they have said points to an open-world PvP situation where you can kill any player at will, much less a system where you can "accidentally" hit a friendly NPC.
So how does it work when I am minding my business stealthing up behind something in a quest situation and suddenly guard fred is chasing killer bob past me alerting the mob and screwing with my quest?
GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »
So how does it work when I am minding my business stealthing up behind something in a quest situation and suddenly guard fred is chasing killer bob past me alerting the mob and screwing with my quest?
Far as I can remember I've never had to kill mobs in town, have you? I really don't think this system will be in quest areas.Edited by babylon on July 10, 2014 6:09PM1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »
So how does it work when I am minding my business stealthing up behind something in a quest situation and suddenly guard fred is chasing killer bob past me alerting the mob and screwing with my quest?
Far as I can remember I've never had to kill mobs in town, have you? I really don't think this system will be in quest areas.
Well, yeah ... in Skyrim I attacked a guard, and then pretty much everyone turned into a mob ... against me.
Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Idea for all the people that say they want a crime system without people playing as guards:
- How about thinking of players in guard faction as NPCs with a very good AI?
In any case, ZOS has stated it will be PVP inside PVE, so thinking and hoping it won't happen nor be available or that it will involve "special skills" is pretty much pointless (PVP is PVP it's not "special skills")
As for people that still say "you can't force PVP on players": Nobody forces you to steal and break the law so if you do it, if you get caught, if you get killed by other players, you can only blame yourself.Edited by TehMagnus on July 10, 2014 6:11PM2
