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Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
I am hoping it won't be open world pvp, and they will use a special skill rather than kill skills, which is what I have been talking about right through this thread.
If not, it will most certainly be open world pvp, just with a flagging system, but at the same time one that excludes a majority of players from participation in a new system, which would be unfortunate to say the least.
Ok, I'm going to try one more time, and then I will assume that you just aren't reading.
The developers haven't described the justice system in great detail, but what they have described is enough to discern the following:
1. Players will be able to choose whether they are criminals or guards (or whether they abstain from participating in the entire thing).
2. Players who choose to be criminals will be committing crimes.
3. When committing those crimes, they may be detected if they aren't careful.
4. When detected, they will be flagged in the new system.
5. Only guards will be able to pursue and capture/kill/whatever a flagged criminal. The criminal will only be able to attack guards. No one else is affected.
6. Once the criminal is apprehended/dead, their bounty/flag resets. Play resumes as normal until the next crime is committed. Edit: I would also hazard a guess that Thieves Guild members can pay to remove their bounty flag.
This does not resemble an open-world PvP system in any way, shape or form.Edited by nerevarine1138 on July 10, 2014 2:17PM----
Murray?2 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭My character is a Khajiit, so yeah ... he'd be a thief.
And if this one gets caught in the act, then this one should not be surprised when the guards arrest him and take his things.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"4 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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If there is pvp in the open world, then it is an open world pvp system. The shape or form it takes is of one with a flagging system. This is simple stuff, not sure why it's not registering with you.nerevarine1138 wrote: »
This does not resemble an open-world PvP system in any way, shape or form.
And again, I would hope they have made the player guard skill something new and not letting people use their kill skills and actually pvping people. If this is the case then it's a system open to all. If not then it's a system denied to many.
Edited by babylon on July 10, 2014 2:13PM2 -
kieso✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
I am hoping it won't be open world pvp, and they will use a special skill rather than kill skills, which is what I have been talking about right through this thread.
If not, it will most certainly be open world pvp, just with a flagging system, but at the same time one that excludes a majority of players from participation in a new system, which would be unfortunate to say the least.
Ok, I'm going to try one more time, and then I will assume that you just aren't reading.
The developers haven't described the justice system in great detail, but what they have described is enough to discern the following:
1. Players will be able to choose whether they are criminals or guards (or whether they abstain from participating in the entire thing).
2. Players who choose to be criminals will be committing crimes.
3. When committing those crimes, they may be detected if they aren't careful.
4. When detected, they will be flagged in the new system.
5. Only guards will be able to pursue and capture/kill/whatever a flagged criminal. The criminal will only be able to attack guards. No one else is affected.
6. Once the criminal is apprehended/dead, their bounty/flag resets. Play resumes as normal until the next crime is committed.
This does not resemble an open-world PvP system in any way, shape or form.
Hmmm I'm undecided what I think about this; and I'm a huge PVP'rs in almost every MMO. Somehow I can see this something players will use to pick sides and then duel or something.0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If there is pvp in the open world, then it is an open world pvp system. The shape or form it takes is of one with a flagging system. This is simple stuff, not sure why it's not registering with you.nerevarine1138 wrote: »
This does not resemble an open-world PvP system in any way, shape or form.
And again, I would hope they have made the player guard skill something new and not letting people use their kill skills and actually pvping people. If this is the case then it's a system open to all. If not then it's a system denied to many.
Yep. I give up.
If you can't see how a completely optional PvP system which only exists while a detected criminal remains at large isn't the same as fully open-world PvP, I can't help you.----
Murray?2 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe the justice system could have been related to the thieves guild, Dark Brotherhood & lets say...I dunno - Imperial Rangers guild.
Want to steal you need to be a member of the thieves guild.
Want to murder you join the dark brotherhood.
Want contracts to issue justice to the above you need to join the Imperial rangers guild.
Leave it all strictly related to pve.
Just a random idea & its late.............
We are going to find out soon enough whether the new justice system is a good idea or not.Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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If there is pvp in the open world, then it is an open world pvp system. The shape or form it takes is of one with a flagging system. This is simple stuff, not sure why it's not registering with you.nerevarine1138 wrote: »
This does not resemble an open-world PvP system in any way, shape or form.
And again, I would hope they have made the player guard skill something new and not letting people use their kill skills and actually pvping people. If this is the case then it's a system open to all. If not then it's a system denied to many.
The definition of open-world PvP is that "one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world". So no, it's not open-world PvP and thats prolly why it's not registering.
As for letting people use their kill skills and actually pvping people, I dont think there are many players that don't have any points in fighting branches (except for farming mules) so how does it "deny" the system to many???0 -
Svann✭✭✭In uo it was like that. They also had endless patches to fix exploits of the system. It never ended.0
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My character is a Khajiit, so yeah ... he'd be a thief.
And if this one gets caught in the act, then this one should not be surprised when the guards arrest him and take his things.
Racism vs Kajiit has allways been a problem, I wonder why authorities haven't taken steps to fix this injustice.0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
If there is pvp in the open world, then it is an open world pvp system. The shape or form it takes is of one with a flagging system. This is simple stuff, not sure why it's not registering with you.nerevarine1138 wrote: »
This does not resemble an open-world PvP system in any way, shape or form.
And again, I would hope they have made the player guard skill something new and not letting people use their kill skills and actually pvping people. If this is the case then it's a system open to all. If not then it's a system denied to many.
Yep. I give up.
If you can't see how a completely optional PvP system which only exists while a detected criminal remains at large isn't the same as fully open-world PvP, I can't help you.
Good, stop posting at me then, not like I actually enjoy chatting with you. If you can't see how a flagging open world pvp system is what it would be if using kill skills then it's you who is missing the point here, not me.2 -
Swampster✭✭✭Yay for arguing semantics \o/
Swampriel - Nightblade (Archer Build) - Ebonheart Pact - Veteran
Swampess - DragonKnight - Eboheart Pact - Lowbie Faceroller0 -
nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
I am hoping it won't be open world pvp, and they will use a special skill rather than kill skills, which is what I have been talking about right through this thread.
If not, it will most certainly be open world pvp, just with a flagging system, but at the same time one that excludes a majority of players from participation in a new system, which would be unfortunate to say the least.
Ok, I'm going to try one more time, and then I will assume that you just aren't reading.
The developers haven't described the justice system in great detail, but what they have described is enough to discern the following:
1. Players will be able to choose whether they are criminals or guards (or whether they abstain from participating in the entire thing).
2. Players who choose to be criminals will be committing crimes.
3. When committing those crimes, they may be detected if they aren't careful.
4. When detected, they will be flagged in the new system.
5. Only guards will be able to pursue and capture/kill/whatever a flagged criminal. The criminal will only be able to attack guards. No one else is affected.
6. Once the criminal is apprehended/dead, their bounty/flag resets. Play resumes as normal until the next crime is committed.
This does not resemble an open-world PvP system in any way, shape or form.
5. Only guards will be able to pursue and capture/kill/whatever a flagged criminal. The criminal will only be able to attack guards. No one else is affected.
Only guards or players that choose to act as guards. That is the kicker. And no it isn't open world PvP in the sense that EVERYONE can kill or be killed. It is however PvP activity in previous non-PvP activity places...ie EVERYWHERE.
Just because I don't commit a crime and get flagged doesn't mean I am unaffected by PvP in the PvE areas.
I have a question and they may have not said yet. If say..murder is a crime. You kill a friendly NPC...does this mean ANY NPC or will there be "essential" NPCs. One of the most annoying things in all this would be a constant gank/camp of quest givers, important NPCs, etc.
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GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, you'd have to pretty much tag yourself as a criminal or town guard to be affected at all.adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »In uo it was like that. They also had endless patches to fix exploits of the system. It never ended.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
I am hoping it won't be open world pvp, and they will use a special skill rather than kill skills, which is what I have been talking about right through this thread.
If not, it will most certainly be open world pvp, just with a flagging system, but at the same time one that excludes a majority of players from participation in a new system, which would be unfortunate to say the least.
Ok, I'm going to try one more time, and then I will assume that you just aren't reading.
The developers haven't described the justice system in great detail, but what they have described is enough to discern the following:
1. Players will be able to choose whether they are criminals or guards (or whether they abstain from participating in the entire thing).
2. Players who choose to be criminals will be committing crimes.
3. When committing those crimes, they may be detected if they aren't careful.
4. When detected, they will be flagged in the new system.
5. Only guards will be able to pursue and capture/kill/whatever a flagged criminal. The criminal will only be able to attack guards. No one else is affected.
6. Once the criminal is apprehended/dead, their bounty/flag resets. Play resumes as normal until the next crime is committed.
This does not resemble an open-world PvP system in any way, shape or form.
5. Only guards will be able to pursue and capture/kill/whatever a flagged criminal. The criminal will only be able to attack guards. No one else is affected.
Only guards or players that choose to act as guards. That is the kicker. And no it isn't open world PvP in the sense that EVERYONE can kill or be killed. It is however PvP activity in previous non-PvP activity places...ie EVERYWHERE.
Just because I don't commit a crime and get flagged doesn't mean I am unaffected by PvP in the PvE areas.
I have a question and they may have not said yet. If say..murder is a crime. You kill a friendly NPC...does this mean ANY NPC or will there be "essential" NPCs. One of the most annoying things in all this would be a constant gank/camp of quest givers, important NPCs, etc.
Usually, essential NPCs can't get killed, their HP drops to 0 or 1 and then they stand up again. This was allready the case for some NPCs in TES previous games.0 -
Yes I know.
However have they said or indicated that there will be "essential" NPCs? Or have they not discussed it?
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Swampster✭✭✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »In uo it was like that. They also had endless patches to fix exploits of the system. It never ended.
Umm in ESO that wouldn't be good, can't imagine the amount of downtime..
I'd agree to open world PVP if it was at the very least as turn-off-and-on-able as it was in Rift, but the beauty with Rift was the ability to seamlessly patch things.
Not sure they've grasped that concept here..lol
Swampriel - Nightblade (Archer Build) - Ebonheart Pact - Veteran
Swampess - DragonKnight - Eboheart Pact - Lowbie Faceroller0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
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Remember that in Skyrim. Then they'd recover at full health in short order.Usually, essential NPCs can't get killed, their HP drops to 0 or 1 and then they stand up again. This was allready the case for some NPCs in TES previous games.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »Yes I know.
However have they said or indicated that there will be "essential" NPCs? Or have they not discussed it?
Well despite what some people in these forums say, ZOS are not that incompetent nor idiots and I haven't seen an MMO where "essential" NPCs could get killed so it's very likely that you won't be able to kill any NPC (else it will be a big failure). I actually doubt that you will even be able to engage some NPCs like bank clercks, at least at the begining. Yet again pretty much everything besides of "PLayers will be able to side with guards to react to people stealing & killing NPCs" is speculation and (as far as I know) ZOS hasn't comented on it.0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, and in Lineage 2, Guard NPCs would respawn after some time and return to their locations. This wasn't the case in TES games like Oblivion where, if you decided to kill everybody in the city (except the unkillable NPCs), they wouldn't respawn. I supose it will not be like this in ESO else the world will be a graveyard in around 12h after patch release xD1 -
kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »Yes I know.
However have they said or indicated that there will be "essential" NPCs? Or have they not discussed it?
Well despite what some people in these forums say, ZOS are not that incompetent nor idiots and I haven't seen an MMO where "essential" NPCs could get killed so it's very likely that you won't be able to kill any NPC (else it will be a big failure). I actually doubt that you will even be able to engage some NPCs like bank clercks, at least at the begining. Yet again pretty much everything besides of "PLayers will be able to side with guards to react to people stealing & killing NPCs" is speculation and (as far as I know) ZOS hasn't comented on it.
Thank you for the answer. I didn't think they were incompetent however I am going to point to that dreaded WoW. One of the most unfun things was even on PvE servers another faction could come in and kill the entire town NPCs, questgivers and everyone. it then flagged them for PvP but when they came to a level 20 town and were 85 it didn't help much. Unlike this game almost no one went to a town in lower levels except major cities.
So I do worry that all NPCs may be up for grabs in this though I certainly hope not.1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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The only one am I? Okay then, it's not pvp. It's not open world. Here's hoping we get to stop other players by screaming "stop thief! stahp!" at the top of our lungs to make it so it certainly is not open world pvp.0 -
Vendek✭The one part of this I do not like is the fact in previous TES games when you stole or killed an NCP you had to deal with the guards. The game sent enough guards to give you a reasonable chance of getting away or trying to kill the guards if you wished. In this I see ESO sending a few guards after you and then on top of that you will have 5 to 10 (or more) (maybe 2 or 3, but would not bet on that) PVP's all bent on being the first to kill you.
So now thieving is not worth it or not fun now as the cost of equipment repair now out ways anything you steal and your chance of getting away from them all but nil.
So in TES games becoming a thief was fun. In ESO I see not so much. Maybe after the novelty wears off it will get better, but there will always be trolls.2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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The only one am I? Okay then, it's not pvp. It's not open world. Here's hoping we get to stop other players by screaming "stop thief! stahp!" at the top of our lungs to make it so it certainly is not open world pvp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_playerPlayer killing, or PKing, is non-consensual PvP resulting in a character's death. Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world
You comited a crime, NPC saw you and reacted (first warning) guards are allready after you (2nd warning), you know players are part of Guards guild (3rd warning).
So that's 3 warnings. Can't say you where attacked anywhere in the world, can't say you didn't have a warning and if you don't break the rules and enter the justice system, then you cannot be randomly attacked anywhere in the game world.
THUS it is not open pvp.1 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »Yes I know.
However have they said or indicated that there will be "essential" NPCs? Or have they not discussed it?
Well despite what some people in these forums say, ZOS are not that incompetent nor idiots and I haven't seen an MMO where "essential" NPCs could get killed so it's very likely that you won't be able to kill any NPC (else it will be a big failure). I actually doubt that you will even be able to engage some NPCs like bank clercks, at least at the begining. Yet again pretty much everything besides of "PLayers will be able to side with guards to react to people stealing & killing NPCs" is speculation and (as far as I know) ZOS hasn't comented on it.
Thank you for the answer. I didn't think they were incompetent however I am going to point to that dreaded WoW. One of the most unfun things was even on PvE servers another faction could come in and kill the entire town NPCs, questgivers and everyone. it then flagged them for PvP but when they came to a level 20 town and were 85 it didn't help much. Unlike this game almost no one went to a town in lower levels except major cities.
So I do worry that all NPCs may be up for grabs in this though I certainly hope not.
What you called unfun, was the reason why millions loved Vanilla WOW.
To fight off tons of guards in a town, to then camp and defend that town versus hundreds of other players - this was what defined MMO Vanilla as one of the best MMO´s of all time.
Today pvp is dead in WOW, the reason is the care bear mode they run these days.
While I understand that someone can be annoyed if he cant hand in a quest, its a lesser evil than completely removing pvp from an MMO which is based on the war of two factions. Never again in WOW history did PVP shine as much as in those golden days.
But as a I said earlier, no company would actually add world pvp to an MMO these days. Players are way to soft and would flood the forums with whine and "I unsub if" threads.2 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, if you're stupid enough to get caught stealing, then it should be painful.So now thieving is not worth it or not fun now as the cost of equipment repair now out ways anything you steal and your chance of getting away from them all but nil.
It was in Oblivion and Skyrim.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"3 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cyrodiil is for PvP.
PvP should not happen in PvE zones except if somewhere in the future they add some kind of Arena there.
Pretty much this.
If i want to PvP i go to cyrodiil.
Want a pissed PvE player? Allow others to keep killing them while they are just trying to do quests and so on.
Hell , i got pissed just from going down 3 times while gathering all the cyrodiil shards.Edited by Nox_Aeterna on July 10, 2014 2:44PM"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor2 -
kieso✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Cyrodiil is for PvP.
PvP should not happen in PvE zones except if somewhere in the future they add some kind of Arena there.
Pretty much this.
If i want to PvP i go to cyrodiil.
Want a pissed PvE player? Allow others to keep killing them while they are just trying to do quests and so on.
Hell , i got pissed just from going down 3 times while gathering all the cyrodiil shards.
You little minx you!1