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Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.
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GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, that's known as ganking, and it's terribly unpopular with most PvE players.
Now if a toggle for PvP were included (that could not be switched on by anyone but the player), and the toggle had a significant cool-down (so an attacking player couldn't then just switch to PvE after attacking another), then perhaps open-world PvP might be viable.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
How will this force PvP on PvE players?
As I said, and apparently it went over your head at the time - players will enjoy stealing from NPCs and killing NPCs, very much like we already do in the quests, but will not enjoy having random players start tearing at them with kill skills.
People will prefer to keep it NPC-based all through, and if other players MUST be involved according to ZOS, they better make it so it's a whole new skill that does not involve any actual kill skills, so it's more like a snowball fight than it is pvp and the humiliation of getting wiped out in a public place due to sucking at pvp.
so questions (again)
Yes it will force pvp as opposed to the pve they signed up for. What part of stealing from NPCs and killing NPCs keeps going over your head.0 -
This thread is gettin' a lil bit out of the subject (mainly because people just read the title and go "Oh NOES" instead of reading the content).
What I proposed since the begining was to implement PVP in SOME PVE areas and to include this in the justice syskassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It is.nerevarine1138 wrote: »choice is important.
And as for forcing pvp on pve players - no, it needs to stay accessible to all subscribers. I believe ZOS will understand that. If they don't, they soon will when they see our reaction.
Ok. Now I just have to ask, because I've explained this ad nauseam:
How will this force PvP on PvE players?
Well it's obvious, they want to be able to kill, steal and do anything they want on NPCs without any repercusions.
That isn't what I or anyone else said. Guards kill to their hearts content. Not other players.
Well that's not what ZOS is planing sorry for you
Bless your heart. *waves goodbye*1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread is gettin' a lil bit out of the subject (mainly because people just read the title and go "Oh NOES" instead of reading the content).
What I proposed since the begining was to implement PVP in SOME PVE areas and to include this in the justice system.
I never said game should be iner outer rampage where everybody could kill anybody in all the areas.
Yet I do believe that it would be interesting to have High level areas (maybe in the next areas that are yet to be introduced to the game), where danger might not come from PVE content but also from other players.
There is PVE, there is PVP, well some players want a mix of both and it would be nice to have an area or many areas for them.
Then this discussion slowly turned to the unreleased stealing/justice system that WILL introduce PVP in PVE (this is not rumors, is not something we are asking for, it's something ZOS has stated) and as @nerevarine1138 has probably allready said 15 times, it will be optional.
As long as you don't do something deemed illegal, you won't have issues. If you do something illegal then you will have to accept the consequences and other players that side with guards WILL be able to hunt you down. End of story.
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »Its already confirmed that staling will engadge PvP in PvE and
I don't think it will be you throwing your kill skills down on the thief, I'm thinking it'll be more that you get to try chase and catch the guy with a right click or some special skill, totally unrelated to regular attack skills and nothing to do with actual pvp.
That would be even better and unique, but nevertheless still PVP. It's the process of testing ones skill on the unpredictability of a player rather than the monotony of PVE which is more just finding a system and repeating it. That's what PVP is.
Either way, it looks like the justice system is just what ESO needs. At least it is in my own opinion.
Cyrodiil is great, but for PVP players I think more is needed in the way of one on one combat. Smaller battle-grounds, an Arena, the justice system, all have pluses and minuses for many people but something is needed.
I am of the opinion that any PVP should be optional, but then I think the same of PVE, many people like to do both like myself but nearly everyone will favor one over the other and some people will only do either PVP or PVE. In my mind if a game can offer something for everyone it will be all the better for it.
I don't disagree with that. But adding more PvP zones and better PvP options is one thing and this another. The compromise was to have entire PvP zones and PvE zones. I don't enjoy open-world PvP even if I am not flagged myself. That is why I don't play open world PVP MMOs. So if this becomes an MMOPVP game then it is not longer the MMORPG game I purchased and payed. I guess at that time it will no longer be fun for me and I will leave those to it that enjoy that kinda thing.
Like I said, in my mind all PVP should be optional. If there were any form of open world PVP, (I doubt there ever will be) then it should have an on off switch or an opt out option.
I agree with babylon, the justice system will probably not be pvp in a skill to kill sense. I guess we will know soon enough, but if it was done in such a way as to count out people that do not like PVP then that would be a monumental error of judgement by Zos for such a basic TES concept, even more so than the VR1-10.1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
How will this force PvP on PvE players?
As I said, and apparently it went over your head at the time - players will enjoy stealing from NPCs and killing NPCs, very much like we already do in the quests, but will not enjoy having random players start tearing at them with kill skills.
People will prefer to keep it NPC-based all through, and if other players MUST be involved according to ZOS, they better make it so it's a whole new skill that does not involve any actual kill skills, so it's more like a snowball fight than it is pvp and the humiliation of getting wiped out in a public place due to sucking at pvp.
so questions (again)
Yes it will force pvp as opposed to the pve they signed up for. What part of stealing from NPCs and killing NPCs keeps going over your head.
When did stealing and assassination become required?
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime. Or better yet, just be good enough that no one sees you.----
Murray?3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.3 -
pitdemon_ESO✭✭✭Never gonna happen. Carebears go [snip] *** crazy the second anyone even suggests something like this. Even if its on another server. That they will never be a part of. Ever.
I think being PK'd in some long lost forgotten game has seriously, permanently, traumatized some folks.
(Is there such a thing as online PTSD?)
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on July 10, 2014 2:13PMThe Grixxitt of Melek - Alfar Nightblade
Grixx of the Reach - Crafter/Reachwitch/Sorceror
Must...downvote...stupidity... (clicks sidebar furiously)1 -
starlizard70ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
YOu don't know that.
You're right, we don't know that. I'm thinking the number will be more like 10 will leave for every 1 who enjoys it.
"We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We’re looking at adding in the Justice system which is where players can steal from NPCs and the NPCs will react to that, I can kill NPCs and NPCs will react to that. The coolest thing I think about that system is because it’s online we can allow players to not just steal and kill, but they can also become guards and act in justice. So you’ll have a little bit of PvP in the real world in the Justice system.0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
Concur. Could see how stealing from NPCs might cause local guards to attack or arrest your character, but don't see how that would make it "open season" on one's character by other players.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
Swampster✭✭✭I can't see any problem with open world PVP, so long as by default players are opted out of it, and they have to consciously opt in to participate and can after a time (or death) opt out again.
Rift employed a similar system on their PVE servers and it worked well..
Players flagged as enabled for PVP have their nameplates change colour to signify their status as gank-able
Edited by Swampster on July 10, 2014 2:14PMSwampriel - Nightblade (Archer Build) - Ebonheart Pact - Veteran
Swampess - DragonKnight - Eboheart Pact - Lowbie Faceroller2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
Have you played an Elder Scrolls game before?
You don't get flagged for "interacting" with an NPC. You get flagged when you commit a crime. If you're killing an NPC for a quest or because they're an enemy in the world, that's not a crime. It never has been considered a crime, nor will it be considered a crime in the justice system.
Killing a friendly NPC because someone took a contract out on them is a crime. If you're not good enough to pull it off without being seen, you deserve to suffer the consequences. And there's ample reason to believe that those consequences don't necessarily mean death; I would assume that players who choose to be guards will have the ability to put someone in jail or (possibly) collect a bounty. Or they could kill them. That's all speculative, but it would be the best way to mirror the single-player games.----
Murray?1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
YOu don't know that.
You're right, we don't know that. I'm thinking the number will be more like 10 will leave for every 1 who enjoys it.
I'm more thinking that haters will cry, pant, yell, say they will unsub, and by the time their subscription time ends and they see it's not that bad, 1 will leave 10 will love it?1 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just to point it out, you can already PVE in Cyrodiil. Pick a town to PVE in that is close to your enemies if you are bored and want PVP in your PVE. People do these quests, and there are people to gank. I know, I have killed them! You even get achievements for finishing them, and I hope HOT PINK DYE someday!“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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You're willfully missing the point. People will enjoy interacting with NPCs in this new system, while they may not enjoy interacting with other players in this new system. It's something I hope ZOS already understands, and if not, they soon will once the forums riot and servers start yelling at them. If this is indeed open world pvp, most of the carnage will be occurring in the forums.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
snip
As for what form this "pvp" should take if a player is a guard, as I already guessed at, it would not be using kill skills, hoping for a whole new skill to nab the target.
Edited by babylon on July 10, 2014 2:00PM1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
Have you played an Elder Scrolls game before?
You don't get flagged for "interacting" with an NPC. You get flagged when you commit a crime. If you're killing an NPC for a quest or because they're an enemy in the world, that's not a crime. It never has been considered a crime, nor will it be considered a crime in the justice system.
Killing a friendly NPC because someone took a contract out on them is a crime. If you're not good enough to pull it off without being seen, you deserve to suffer the consequences. And there's ample reason to believe that those consequences don't necessarily mean death; I would assume that players who choose to be guards will have the ability to put someone in jail or (possibly) collect a bounty. Or they could kill them. That's all speculative, but it would be the best way to mirror the single-player games.
That makes sense. In Oblivion and Skyrim, if your character killed an NPC in public, pretty much everyone in town turned you into a target.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"2 -
Katniss_Everlark✭✭✭No just no. I didn't really start pvping in any of my previous mmos because I didn't like it. In WoW I was stuck on a pvp server & I'd get killed while questing by players of my lvl to the highest lvl possible. In Swtor I avoided the pvp areas on my pve server at all costs.
You'd be killing players of your own faction which I find stupid. If it was something like WoW or Swtor where you could actually be in the same area as the other factions that's one thing. Seeing how that isn't possible in the pve areas it'd be stupid to be killing other AD, EP, DC players in your own faction.
Cyrodiil is the perfect amount of pvp. It's an area all it's own & you get to kill players there!! So why would you bring that to the pve area when people are just trying to quest & get gold or mats for crafting. Pvp should stay in Cyrodiil not in any pve zones.Legendary Legion
The Royal Aldmeri Guard
Katniss Everlark VR 6 Nightblade Archer Werewolf
A few alts all under level 252 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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You're willfully missing the point. People will enjoy interacting with NPCs in this new system, while they may not enjoy interacting with other players in this new system. It's something I hope ZOS already understand, and if not, they soon will once the forums riot and servers start yelling at them. If this is indeed open world pvp, most of the carnage will be occurring in the forums.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
snip
You're deliberately trying to change the entire concept of the justice system, as it has existed for over 20 years in the series.
I'm sure people will enjoy being able to steal from and assassinate specific targets. It has always been an enjoyable part of the single-player games.
And just like the single-player games, players will quickly find out that they cannot walk up to a person on a crowded street and stab them without suffering some consequences. What you're asking for is a crime system devoid of risk, which is not fun for anyone.
And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.Edited by nerevarine1138 on July 10, 2014 2:02PM----
Murray?5 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Katniss_Everlark wrote: »No just no. I didn't really start pvping in any of my previous mmos because I didn't like it. In WoW I was stuck on a pvp server & I'd get killed while questing by players of my lvl to the highest lvl possible. In Swtor I avoided the pvp areas on my pve server at all costs.
You'd be killing players of your own faction which I find stupid. If it was something like WoW or Swtor where you could actually be in the same area as the other factions that's one thing. Seeing how that isn't possible in the pve areas it'd be stupid to be killing other AD, EP, DC players in your own faction.
Cyrodiil is the perfect amount of pvp. It's an area all it's own & you get to kill players there!! So why would you bring that to the pve area when people are just trying to quest & get gold or mats for crafting. Pvp should stay in Cyrodiil not in any pve zones.
You clearly haven't read anything that has been said here.
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joshweps✭✭✭The op mentioned a system they had In MU online, Iv never played but I looked it up and the way they did pvp in pve zones sounds good they could do it in certain areas I would like to see something like it.
Outside of a duel, PvP fighting is possible but discouraged. When one player attacks another, a self-defense system is activated, in which the attacked player may kill the aggressor within a time limit. Self-defense is also activated when a player attacks an Elf's summoned creature. If one player kills another without Self-defense active, they become an Outlaw, more commonly known in-game as "Player Killer" or PK. Outlaws have disadvantages during game play, depending on his Outlaw level.
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
You're willfully missing the point. People will enjoy interacting with NPCs in this new system, while they may not enjoy interacting with other players in this new system. It's something I hope ZOS already understand, and if not, they soon will once the forums riot and servers start yelling at them. If this is indeed open world pvp, most of the carnage will be occurring in the forums.nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Do you not want to risk being flagged for PvP? Don't commit a crime.
How can interacting with NPCs flag a player for pvp. This will not work and I doubt very much ZOS would be foolish enough to try it. I think it's going far enough opening up a minigame with random players due to participation in this new system, making it actual pvp would be gaming suicide.
snip
You're deliberately trying to change the entire concept of the justice system, as it has existed for over 20 years in the series.
I'm sure people will enjoy being able to steal from and assassinate specific targets. It has always been an enjoyable part of the single-player games.
And just like the single-player games, players will quickly find out that they cannot walk up to a person on a crowded street and stab them without suffering some consequences. What you're asking for is a crime system devoid of risk, which is not fun for anyone.
And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »And please, please, please stop calling this "open-world PvP". It's not even close.
I am hoping it won't be open world pvp, and they will use a special skill rather than kill skills, which is what I have been talking about right through this thread.
If not, it will most certainly be open world pvp, just with a flagging system, but at the same time one that excludes a majority of players from participation in a new system, which would be unfortunate to say the least.0 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭Seriously Officer Jenkins doesn't need people running around thieving from and murdering each other he has enough problems as it isThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's funny to see how @babylon claims he speaks for 99% of the players regarding his dislike for the incomming justice changes, he apears to be a clearvoyant too since he forsees riots in response of a functionality that is one of the core parts of TES series. Finally he apears to be extremely good at not answering when you proove him wrong like when I linked the interview prooving I wasn't just making up the PVP in the justice system. 0
. If you can kill NPCs why not players?