Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.

hoyle777b14_ESO

I am looking forward to the Justice system. Open world PvP is always fun for me...even when I am being beat over and over again. I personally will opt in. You want to play a little Cops and Robbers with me? I will be in the Dark Brotherhood, I will be in the Thieves Guild, and I will always be flagged. All you Guards/Justicars should prepare for the teabagging . Either giving or receiving.

jbcrocks

What if I have friends with me but are just around me and I just tried to kill a player, how can they protect me if they spam AoE? will it kill their teammates as well or the enemy or what? Since it's not like cyrodil where there is no friendly kill.

AngryNord

NO thanks, will be the death of this game.

TehMagnus

AngryNord wrote: »

NO thanks, will be the death of this game.

Most successful MMORPGs that have lasted for AGES and been played by millions of players (which is much more than ESO will prolly ever have), have open world PVP like MUonline and Lineage 2.

But ok, yeah, it's gonna be the death of this game .

Osira

This is so silly. Cyrodill, which is a great map, is a PvP zone, it's big as hell yet baddies want to gank people while leveling too?

Some people really don't think.

magnusnet wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

NO thanks, will be the death of this game.

Most successful MMORPGs that have lasted for AGES and been played by millions of players (which is much more than ESO will prolly ever have), have open world PVP like MUonline and Lineage 2.

But ok, yeah, it's gonna be the death of this game .

Old games, old times, old habits. Things have changed now.

WoW separate PvE players from PvP with servers which is the usual way to go.

Age of Conan had this, tried PvP server but really getting ganked while talking to npcs is not only lame but annoying too. Especially when you are reading the dialogue lines and not spamming lmb to skip everything.
You just would have many people leaving at the end of the day. It won't make the game more attractive. Far from it in fact.
Plus, there are more PvE players than PvP players in MMOs nowadays, MMOs just can't get it right. Why do you think MOBAs and FPS games are played by millions of people and are way more popular?

Like I said there's a giant map from one of the greatest TES games, PvP only... Just freaking use it !

khele23eb17_ESO

So... you just want random indiscriminate ganking? Nope, not going to happen.

TehMagnus

Those are unfounded fears of people who obviously have never tried such systems/games.

In both games I cited you couldn't attack people inside towns (where 90% of NPCs are) and the penalties for being a murdered made it so people chose carefully when they attacked a player or not.

Even though it was possible to attack anyone, there where mechanisms set in place to avoid friendly fire and when a grieffer was killing poor people you always had 4 or 5 persons hunting him and making him run for his life (since killing murderers = reward).

The percentage of PVE/PVP players has always been the same and it didn't cause any problem nor did you have people crying about it back then so the excuse "times have changed" is invalid.

The only thing it changes is that it makes the game feel more alive/realistic, adding a good dose of unknown and when you have someone trolling you, you can just kill him and /dishonor his corpse (and then you get the rush of running for your life because Player Killer hunters don't care if you killed the grieffer for legitimate reasons or not..

Once again, it was part of very successful games and to this day Lineage 2 still has more players than ESO so I suppose things haven't changed that much.

Edit: Oh and Cyrodill sucks. Zergfest, yaiiii. People wonder why 90% of MMORPG guilds left the game xD.

Tandor

There are MMOs that are well suited to open PvP, but this is not one of them.

Moreover, when we see PvPers posting that they agree with PvEers being allowed to enter PvP-disabled instances of Cyrodil in order to complete quests, collect skyshards etc, then we can take seriously their request to be allowed to enter PvP-enabled instances of the open world.

Until then, however, it's just more complaining by PvPers who are never satisfied with the PvP arrangements in MMOs, especially those that provide proper PvP areas for consenting PvPers rather than allowing endless ganking of lowbies, wayshrine camping, and all the other delights of open world PvP.

Osira

magnusnet wrote: »

Those are unfounded fears of people who obviously have never tried such systems/games.

In both games I cited you couldn't attack people inside towns (where 90% of NPCs are) and the penalties for being a murdered made it so people chose carefully when they attacked a player or not.

Even though it was possible to attack anyone, there where mechanisms set in place to avoid friendly fire and when a grieffer was killing poor people you always had 4 or 5 persons hunting him and making him run for his life (since killing murderers = reward).

The percentage of PVE/PVP players has always been the same and it didn't cause any problem nor did you have people crying about it back then so the excuse "times have changed" is invalid.

The only thing it changes is that it makes the game feel more alive/realistic, adding a good dose of unknown and when you have someone trolling you, you can just kill him and /dishonor his corpse (and then you get the rush of running for your life because Player Killer hunters don't care if you killed the grieffer for legitimate reasons or not..

Once again, it was part of very successful games and to this day Lineage 2 still has more players than ESO so I suppose things haven't changed that much.

Edit: Oh and Cyrodill sucks. Zergfest, yaiiii. People wonder why 90% of MMORPG guilds left the game xD.

Sorry, didn't read it all but I can assure you 2 things :

ESO won't be the next MU / Mugu online whatever you call it. I haven't played the game but I do know the concept of PK. You don't need to be a "grandpa" who has played old MMOs to know how it works.

The problem with people like you, is that they just think around their own interests/what they want, they can't see farther than that. Add a dose of nostalgia and things just couldn't get better.

Don't you believe that forcing PvP on people who just want to quest and have no interest in being in a PvP zone a bad idea for customers ? Haven't you noticed that when forcing something on people who do not want it they will just quit/leave?
It's that simple, and yes times have changed indeed, now if you want good and competitive PvP games, people don't go to MMOs, they go towards MOBAs, FPS games because it's simply more balanced, PvP focused and never you will have nerfs because of any PvE thing. Have you been living under a rock or something??

I know you want a game more "alive" and gank people in a dark corner but with a game that unbalanced, with many issues it would makes things worse.

By the way, it's not fear, it's common sense.

And If Cyrodiil is too zergy just like GW2, why can I see videos of lonely players ganking and kicking ass? You just have to avoid the huge masses

TehMagnus

Tandor wrote: »

Don't you believe that forcing PvP on people who just want to quest and have no interest in being in a PvP zone a bad idea for customers ?

The problem with people like you and many others is that you play an MMORPG when you clearly should be playing a solo game (where you can quest and not be in PVP situations) and leave MMORPGs to people who actually want an open world with a dose of realism and unknown. Catering to people like you ruins the experience for MMORPGers

Syntse

magnusnet wrote: »

The problem with people like you and many others is that you play an MMORPG when you clearly should be playing a solo game (where you can quest and not be in PVP situations) and leave MMORPGs to people who actually want an open world with a dose of realism and unknown. Catering to people like you ruins the experience for MMORPGers

Interesting how people define the MMORPG, for you it seems MMORPG stands for Open world PvP. Some others it means grouping and big raids. Then are people who see it as RPG world with many other people where you can go on your own or group if you like to.

rotiferuk

magnusnet wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Don't you believe that forcing PvP on people who just want to quest and have no interest in being in a PvP zone a bad idea for customers ?

The problem with people like you and many others is that you play an MMORPG when you clearly should be playing a solo game (where you can quest and not be in PVP situations) and leave MMORPGs to people who actually want an open world with a dose of realism and unknown. Catering to people like you ruins the experience for MMORPGers

'
This is rather arrogant of you. Not everyone wants to PvP. Some just want to PvE. In ESO there are large areas for both players. Why not be satisfied with what you have? BTW, it would be silly of Zenimax to reduce their player base to those who just wanted to PvP.

Yes, I do PvP (since Beta) and enjoy it a great deal.

Tandor

magnusnet wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Don't you believe that forcing PvP on people who just want to quest and have no interest in being in a PvP zone a bad idea for customers ?

The problem with people like you and many others is that you play an MMORPG when you clearly should be playing a solo game (where you can quest and not be in PVP situations) and leave MMORPGs to people who actually want an open world with a dose of realism and unknown. Catering to people like you ruins the experience for MMORPGers

I've no idea why you're quoting me, it was Osira who made the comments you're responding to.

But in any event, you're completely wrong in trying to equate opposition to open world PvP with solo games. Your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Take EQ1 for example. Back in the day, it was a group-centric PvE game in which the developers responded to calls for PvP by introducing PvP servers. At their peak they only ever attracted about 10% of the players, before they were eventually whittled down through non-use. Should the other 90% have been playing "solo games" (by which I assume you mean offline single player games)? What was wrong with them playing PvE with an emphasis on grouping in that game? They simply didn't want to PvP, that's all.

TehMagnus

Tandor wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Don't you believe that forcing PvP on people who just want to quest and have no interest in being in a PvP zone a bad idea for customers ?

The problem with people like you and many others is that you play an MMORPG when you clearly should be playing a solo game (where you can quest and not be in PVP situations) and leave MMORPGs to people who actually want an open world with a dose of realism and unknown. Catering to people like you ruins the experience for MMORPGers

I've no idea why you're quoting me, it was Osira who made the comments you're responding to.

But in any event, you're completely wrong in trying to equate opposition to open world PvP with solo games. Your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Take EQ1 for example. Back in the day, it was a group-centric PvE game in which the developers responded to calls for PvP by introducing PvP servers. At their peak they only ever attracted about 10% of the players, before they were eventually whittled down through non-use. Should the other 90% have been playing "solo games" (by which I assume you mean offline single player games)? What was wrong with them playing PvE with an emphasis on grouping in that game? They simply didn't want to PvP, that's all.

Because the PVP sucked in EQ1? And btw, EQNext will have open world PVP

Sorry for wrong quote btw, dunno what happened with the form my bad.

The only reason people don't want this is because of selfishness I suppose, just like the fact a few people don't want the UI to get better because they don't personally need more stuff, just like the fact many people don't want justice system because they want to be able to loot everything without consequences. Open world PVP has worked very well in dozens of games with minimal to no bad consequences for players and that is an irrefutable fact.

In any case, this thread was dead and buried and I'd stopped beating the dead horse since I recon that as much as you're all wrong, you are a majority at being wrong.

Shouldn't have diged up the thread since you will never change my mind about this and it's useless to keep arguing.

zhevon

magnusnet wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Don't you believe that forcing PvP on people who just want to quest and have no interest in being in a PvP zone a bad idea for customers ?

The problem with people like you and many others is that you play an MMORPG when you clearly should be playing a solo game (where you can quest and not be in PVP situations) and leave MMORPGs to people who actually want an open world with a dose of realism and unknown. Catering to people like you ruins the experience for MMORPGers

Cough ... Elderscrolls is a solo series; therefore you will get people who want to play solo. Currently I am mainly playing solo because I have limited time and formal grouping takes too much effort.

Many PvP folks only want to gank/grief people; if you are a gankee and only have limited playing time it gets really annoying.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Osira wrote: »

This is so silly. Cyrodill, which is a great map, is a PvP zone, it's big as hell yet baddies want to gank people while leveling too?

It's what many PVPers do, they don't want a fair fight, they want to be e-thugs and bullies, ganking is simply cyber bullying in the thin guise of a 'game'.

Stroggnonimus

I this having PvP Justice is a great idea, I can even explain how I think it should work.

Step 1. You get an obvious but very important choice - do you want to hunted by npc's only or by players too ?

Step 2. IF you chose to be hunted by players, your name, crime and place where crime was committed is sent to player playing as "Hunter". The hunter will be your level ( if you are veteran) or +/- 2 levels is you havent reached Veteran.

Step 3. When you're found by hunter guy, your duel CANNOT be interrupted by other players

Step 4.1. If you loose, you pay for your crime and you're sent to jail.

Step 4.2. If you win, you have about 10 minutes to run a.k.a. leave the area. After 10 minutes, another hunter is sent after you. If you left the area, he has to wait till you're back.

Step 5. If you defeat a number of hunters (number depends on your crime) or spend enough time IN the area you made the crime and you haven't been found (a.k.a. attacked by hunter), you have successfully escaped, and you're no longer wanted. (amount of time again depends on the crime, only in-game time counts)

Note 1. You CANNOT leave the area while you are being hunted.
Note 2. Hunters get money rewards for successfully caught criminals (reward depends on criminals bounty)
Note 3. Hunter can abandon the assignment to catch you, if he does that while you are WITHIN the area of crime (e.g. Eastmarch) this count as 1 defeated hunter. However if he does that while you're OUTSIDE the area of crime, that doesn't count as defeated hunter.
Note 4. You can be hunted practically forever if don't return to area.
Note 5. Hunter can't do anything to you outside the area of crime.

Zorrashi

magnusnet wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Don't you believe that forcing PvP on people who just want to quest and have no interest in being in a PvP zone a bad idea for customers ?

The problem with people like you and many others is that you play an MMORPG when you clearly should be playing a solo game (where you can quest and not be in PVP situations) and leave MMORPGs to people who actually want an open world with a dose of realism and unknown. Catering to people like you ruins the experience for MMORPGers

I've no idea why you're quoting me, it was Osira who made the comments you're responding to.

But in any event, you're completely wrong in trying to equate opposition to open world PvP with solo games. Your point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Take EQ1 for example. Back in the day, it was a group-centric PvE game in which the developers responded to calls for PvP by introducing PvP servers. At their peak they only ever attracted about 10% of the players, before they were eventually whittled down through non-use. Should the other 90% have been playing "solo games" (by which I assume you mean offline single player games)? What was wrong with them playing PvE with an emphasis on grouping in that game? They simply didn't want to PvP, that's all.

Because the PVP sucked in EQ1? And btw, EQNext will have open world PVP

Sorry for wrong quote btw, dunno what happened with the form my bad.

The only reason people don't want this is because of selfishness I suppose, just like the fact a few people don't want the UI to get better because they don't personally need more stuff, just like the fact many people don't want justice system because they want to be able to loot everything without consequences. Open world PVP has worked very well in dozens of games with minimal to no bad consequences for players and that is an irrefutable fact.

In any case, this thread was dead and buried and I'd stopped beating the dead horse since I recon that as much as you're all wrong, you are a majority at being wrong.

Shouldn't have diged up the thread since you will never change my mind about this and it's useless to keep arguing.

Are you so sure it is they who are being selfish, mate? For you, who so clearly has a rather "refined" vision of what an MMORPG 'should be' I find it sort of ironic that you call others selfish.

But then, I suppose we're all selfish in one way or another no?

Why not have healthy dose of features that caters to all playstyles and not just a select few? Open PvP is, quite simply, not appealing to great amount of the player base. Which would be fine on its own, save for the fact that open world PvP, by its very nature, is meant to have its influence felt by virtually any player who even exists in the game realm.

Nox_Aeterna

There were already polls about this and the vast majority said they would quit the game if it becomes open PvP.

ESO is a themepark MMO , the amount of PvE and PvP players isnt the same , in a game like this the majority will be PvE players , some of them even PvP also , but try to force them and you are in for a major issue :P.

There are other kinds of MMOs with this kind of thing going , other kinds of players go play those games. Different games , different tastes , to change this would make a large portion of the playerbase to quit , how many of the players that enjoy this would join in their place is something hard to even guess.

Osira

.
(how do you delete a comment lol)

Nestor

magnusnet wrote: »

In both games I cited you couldn't attack people inside towns (where 90% of NPCs are) and the penalties for being a murdered made it so people chose carefully when they attacked a player or not.

You must have missed the part during the presentation where the only NPCs being killed were in towns. The only stealing being done was in towns, which would mean that is where the bounty hunters (or whatever they are called) will show up to collect the bounty.

The Justice System may very well mean I quit playing the game. I make the towns safe so the towns are safe, not so everyone can be be attacked by anyone going through the town. Combat is for outside the towns, and in this game, PvP is for Cyrodill.