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Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No, but you'll be subject to ass-hats who now simply annoy you by spamming moronic AoEs inside the banks, now engaging in fighting as well.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Wait, What, Who though this was a good idea. Why would you want to have pvp in a pve environment.
- So, I am in town trying to do something, and some d!ck is gonna attack me.
- I am trying to buy something from a vendor, and in the middle of the transaction, he gets kill by some other player
- I am turning in a quest and trying to get my reward, and the npc gets killed.
The whole point of town is so I can do my dailies and not have to stress out over being attacked.
Again: this is not a free-for-all system.
Based on what we've heard so far, you cannot be targeted for justice system PvP if you aren't participating in it. Period. So you cannot be an unsuspecting target unless you're just a generally clueless person..
There's many forms of griefing open world PVP makes possible other than simply being attackable oneself.
It's why dueling shouldn't be allowed outside of PVP areas, as well.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 10, 2014 1:11PM3 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Based on what we've heard so far, you cannot be targeted for justice system PvP if you aren't participating in it..
The other important point to note is ZOS needs to open this system up to all subscribers, and not just the pvpers, or they will make very few friends and loads of enemies.
The same way they made enemies by only allowing you to take part in the Cyrodiil alliance war if you were willing to do some PvP?
A good MMO requires both PvP and PvE content. The justice system will have a little of both. If you don't want to participate in the PvP end of things, you won't be required to, any more than you are currently required to serve in the army around the Imperial City.----
Murray?2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »PvP and PvE content.
There already is pvp content, and plenty of it (an entire map). This is a system in the open world and it needs to be for all subscribers.0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭yelloweyedemon wrote: »Heh.. They just nerfed veteran content because of the complains of it being too hard.
There are more chances of me developing wings and start flying around, than see them add "friendly fire" option in PvE.
Not that i wouldn't support it (old L2 ftw), but yeah.. not going to ever happen...
L2
. Well even there you eventually had some idiots that would hunt low level players but you would usually see a high level player poping into town asking where the guy is to go smash his skull and then you could continue playing as if nothing had hapened ^^. I don't thin ZOS will ever implement it in low level areas but I hope that maybe in craglorn or in the next areas they introduce, they allow pvp inside PVE.
If people don't want to fear for their lives they just avoid the area.2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
No, but you'll be subject to ass-hats who now simply annoy you by spamming moronic AoEs inside the banks, now engaging in fighting as well.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Wait, What, Who though this was a good idea. Why would you want to have pvp in a pve environment.
- So, I am in town trying to do something, and some d!ck is gonna attack me.
- I am trying to buy something from a vendor, and in the middle of the transaction, he gets kill by some other player
- I am turning in a quest and trying to get my reward, and the npc gets killed.
The whole point of town is so I can do my dailies and not have to stress out over being attacked.
Again: this is not a free-for-all system.
Based on what we've heard so far, you cannot be targeted for justice system PvP if you aren't participating in it. Period. So you cannot be an unsuspecting target unless you're just a generally clueless person..
There's many forms of griefing open world PVP makes possible other than simply being attackable oneself.
It's why dueling shouldn't be allowed outside of PVP areas, as well.
So just beacuse there will be flashing lights in your screen you're against people fighting around you.
So selfish...3 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »PvP and PvE content.
There already is pvp content, and plenty of it (an entire map). This is a system in the open world and it needs to be for all subscribers.
What part of this is hard to understand?
The justice system (as loosely described by the developers) does not suddenly create a massive open-world PvP situation. It only puts the enforcement of the law in the hands of the players, which is a much better system than having a bunch of guards running through town after every thief.
It does not prevent any subscribers from participating in the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild quests. It does not prevent them from experiencing any part of the world. It's a system that creates real stakes for criminals, and if you're a PvE player (like I am), there's no reason to oppose that.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
No, but you'll be subject to ass-hats who now simply annoy you by spamming moronic AoEs inside the banks, now engaging in fighting as well.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Wait, What, Who though this was a good idea. Why would you want to have pvp in a pve environment.
- So, I am in town trying to do something, and some d!ck is gonna attack me.
- I am trying to buy something from a vendor, and in the middle of the transaction, he gets kill by some other player
- I am turning in a quest and trying to get my reward, and the npc gets killed.
The whole point of town is so I can do my dailies and not have to stress out over being attacked.
Again: this is not a free-for-all system.
Based on what we've heard so far, you cannot be targeted for justice system PvP if you aren't participating in it. Period. So you cannot be an unsuspecting target unless you're just a generally clueless person..
There's many forms of griefing open world PVP makes possible other than simply being attackable oneself.
It's why dueling shouldn't be allowed outside of PVP areas, as well.
You know that guards and thieves won't be coordinating fights at specific locations, right? And you being annoyed by the behavior of annoying people isn't a valid reason to not have a fully player-run justice system.----
Murray?2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So, if under this system we are open to be flagged for PVP if we 'steal' from NPCs .. where do non-PVPers get their Motifs and other stuff from which at the moment only come from containers usually with NPC(s) standing about to see you.nerevarine1138 wrote: »In short, no one is denying you access to content any more than having PvP in Cyrodiil is denying you access to content. There will be a PvP aspect to the justice system. If you don't want to participate in that, then don't. Complaining that it would shut you off from part of the game is like complaining that you can't assault a keep in Cyrodiil without being flagged for PvP.
Seems to me your "if you don't want to participate in that, then don't" means no longer being able to get recipes, cooking ingredients, etc. in anything like the quantities we've been used to.
What am I missing here?
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Actually it is a reason, if enough people get pissed off with something.nerevarine1138 wrote: »And you being annoyed by the behavior of annoying people isn't a valid reason to not have a fully player-run justice system.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 10, 2014 1:19PM1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are so many people behaving completely ignorant about this system? Do you people even read the system you are commenting on?
It will be in no way a free-for-all PVP system in PVE zones.
For as far as I can tell, you will be flagged for PVP when you steal or kill NPCs. Don't want to be flagged? Don't steal or murder. Very simple.
And don't give me the argument "You are effectively shutting down entire game mechanics from players". You commit a crime, you deal with the concequences. Nothing more.4 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
So, if under this system we are open to be flagged for PVP if we 'steal' from NPCs .. where do non-PVPers get their Motifs and other stuff from which at the moment only come from containers usually with NPC(s) standing about to see you.nerevarine1138 wrote: »In short, no one is denying you access to content any more than having PvP in Cyrodiil is denying you access to content. There will be a PvP aspect to the justice system. If you don't want to participate in that, then don't. Complaining that it would shut you off from part of the game is like complaining that you can't assault a keep in Cyrodiil without being flagged for PvP.
Seems to me your "if you don't want to participate in that, then don't" means no longer being able to get recipes, cooking ingredients, etc. in anything like the quantities we've been used to.
What am I missing here?
As in prior Elder Scrolls games, one can reasonably assume (and I know that "reasonably" is asking a lot on these forums) that not every container will be marked as private property. As in prior titles (and real life), it may become harder to get what you want without stealing it. So you'll have to weigh the costs and benefits. Is what you want to take worth the risk of bringing the guards down on your head?
And the notion that the developers won't adjust things in the game to allow for easier crime commission (i.e. not having every container in plain view of an NPC) is flat-out ridiculous. They already stated that this system has been delayed instead of being released at launch because they want to do it right. If they can make it work, it will put this MMO head and shoulders above any of the competition.Edited by nerevarine1138 on July 10, 2014 1:25PM----
Murray?2 -
Irakandji✭✭✭Seems fine to me,
it is your choice to steal and get flagged.
it is your choice to join the guards and get flagged.
no angels required for those that want no pk involvement.
I wish they had red sky hours ... There once was an MMO (M59) where the dev's would turn on "red skies" while the servers were backing up. During this period nothing was saved, so Pking did not result in the permanent loss of levels or gear. Yaa normally if you were pk'd your killer could take your stuff and you lost a level.
Guess what, the entire server became mass serial killers, it was insane and a lot of fun.. Oh and did I mention the raining cows..
Now we do this on the forums instead ..2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
snip questionsnerevarine1138 wrote: »PvP and PvE content.
There already is pvp content, and plenty of it (an entire map). This is a system in the open world and it needs to be for all subscribers.
What part of pve players will not want open world pvp forced upon them yet will enjoy stealing and killing npcs is hard to understand?
You see how going from interacting with npcs (killing or stealing from them, much like we do now in some quests) then suddenly getting attacked by random players is not the same thing for pve players. It needs to stay in the pve world enough that pve players will enjoy the system, or it will not fly.
1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
No, but you'll be subject to ass-hats who now simply annoy you by spamming moronic AoEs inside the banks, now engaging in fighting as well.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Wait, What, Who though this was a good idea. Why would you want to have pvp in a pve environment.
- So, I am in town trying to do something, and some d!ck is gonna attack me.
- I am trying to buy something from a vendor, and in the middle of the transaction, he gets kill by some other player
- I am turning in a quest and trying to get my reward, and the npc gets killed.
The whole point of town is so I can do my dailies and not have to stress out over being attacked.
Again: this is not a free-for-all system.
Based on what we've heard so far, you cannot be targeted for justice system PvP if you aren't participating in it. Period. So you cannot be an unsuspecting target unless you're just a generally clueless person..
There's many forms of griefing open world PVP makes possible other than simply being attackable oneself.
It's why dueling shouldn't be allowed outside of PVP areas, as well.
So just beacuse there will be flashing lights in your screen you're against people fighting around you.
So selfish...
So just because I don't want some NPCs killed or not to have people acting like idiots in PVE areas I want to leave the PVP in the PVP areas. This takes nothing away from you. heck make MORE PVP areas. Just don't put the PVP in the PVE area.
If we are gonna call people selfish how is putting PVP in PVE any different?2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
snip questionsnerevarine1138 wrote: »PvP and PvE content.
There already is pvp content, and plenty of it (an entire map). This is a system in the open world and it needs to be for all subscribers.
What part of pve players will not want open world pvp forced upon them yet will enjoy stealing and killing npcs is hard to understand?
You see how going from interacting with npcs (killing or stealing from them, much like we do now in some quests) then suddenly getting attacked by random players is not the same thing for pve players. It needs to stay in the pve world enough that pve players will enjoy the system, or it will not fly.
This is the Elder Scrolls. The crime system in the Elder Scrolls has always had consequences. The lack of consequences in the current system is a huge source of frustration for fans of the series.
So yes, you will not have the option to steal and kill with impunity. You will have to carefully weigh your options and (Stendarr forbid) actually put some thought in to your crime commission.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Actually it is a reason, if enough people get pissed off with something.nerevarine1138 wrote: »And you being annoyed by the behavior of annoying people isn't a valid reason to not have a fully player-run justice system.
By that logic, we shouldn't allow people to use abilities in town, because it annoys others. And honestly, what do you think will be more annoying? The occasional fight breaking out between player-guards and player-criminals? Or a player-criminal leading every single NPC guard into the bank and spamming AoEs to kill them?----
Murray?1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
So, if under this system we are open to be flagged for PVP if we 'steal' from NPCs .. where do non-PVPers get their Motifs and other stuff from which at the moment only come from containers usually with NPC(s) standing about to see you.nerevarine1138 wrote: »In short, no one is denying you access to content any more than having PvP in Cyrodiil is denying you access to content. There will be a PvP aspect to the justice system. If you don't want to participate in that, then don't. Complaining that it would shut you off from part of the game is like complaining that you can't assault a keep in Cyrodiil without being flagged for PvP.
Seems to me your "if you don't want to participate in that, then don't" means no longer being able to get recipes, cooking ingredients, etc. in anything like the quantities we've been used to.
What am I missing here?
You're missing the part where "farming items" is abusing the game mechanics and breaking the rules since you log in and log out to reset the chests.
So yeah, you wont be able to run around with auto loot just farming chests and containers for loot and game will be better of for it.
You'll still have the possibility to loot chests and containers in dungeons or in buildings where there are no NPCs and prolly also be able to sneak & loot in areas belonging to NPCs.0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
snip questionsnerevarine1138 wrote: »PvP and PvE content.
There already is pvp content, and plenty of it (an entire map). This is a system in the open world and it needs to be for all subscribers.
What part of pve players will not want open world pvp forced upon them yet will enjoy stealing and killing npcs is hard to understand?
You see how going from interacting with npcs (killing or stealing from them, much like we do now in some quests) then suddenly getting attacked by random players is not the same thing for pve players. It needs to stay in the pve world enough that pve players will enjoy the system, or it will not fly.
This is the Elder Scrolls.
Yep and we don't pvp in the Elder Scrolls world at all. Your point?
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
So, if under this system we are open to be flagged for PVP if we 'steal' from NPCs .. where do non-PVPers get their Motifs and other stuff from which at the moment only come from containers usually with NPC(s) standing about to see you.nerevarine1138 wrote: »In short, no one is denying you access to content any more than having PvP in Cyrodiil is denying you access to content. There will be a PvP aspect to the justice system. If you don't want to participate in that, then don't. Complaining that it would shut you off from part of the game is like complaining that you can't assault a keep in Cyrodiil without being flagged for PvP.
Seems to me your "if you don't want to participate in that, then don't" means no longer being able to get recipes, cooking ingredients, etc. in anything like the quantities we've been used to.
What am I missing here?
You're missing the part where "farming items" is abusing the game mechanics and breaking the rules since you log in and log out to reset the chests.
So yeah, you wont be able to run around with auto loot just farming chests and containers for loot and game will be better of for it.
You'll still have the possibility to loot chests and containers in dungeons or in buildings where there are no NPCs and prolly also be able to sneak & loot in areas belonging to NPCs.
Though you aren't addressing me, I personally don't have issue with the guards coming at me if I take stuff. I have issue with PVP in PVE areas. If the guards wasn't to chase me to Oblivion and back and stab me in the eye for taking that 9 gold recipe then cool. If in the PvP sections the players get to participate...then awesome.
If the players participate in the PVE areas then I am against that. it doesn't matter if I am flagged or not. I don't want the PVP in PVE.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
snip questionsnerevarine1138 wrote: »PvP and PvE content.
There already is pvp content, and plenty of it (an entire map). This is a system in the open world and it needs to be for all subscribers.
What part of pve players will not want open world pvp forced upon them yet will enjoy stealing and killing npcs is hard to understand?
You see how going from interacting with npcs (killing or stealing from them, much like we do now in some quests) then suddenly getting attacked by random players is not the same thing for pve players. It needs to stay in the pve world enough that pve players will enjoy the system, or it will not fly.
This is the Elder Scrolls.
Yep and we don't pvp in the Elder Scrolls world at all. Your point?
That a natural consequence of taking the series online is that players are going to start filling roles that NPCs used to fill.
Companions? Now you can group.
Merchants for materials? Guild stores or regular trading.
And since this is the Elder Scrolls, choice is important. Only allowing players the option of being criminals is ludicrous. Anyone who has followed the development of this game should have known long ago that players would have the option to be guards. It's the only way to make sure that content isn't actually shut off to people based on their moral persuasion. Not everyone wants to be a thief/assassin.----
Murray?2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
No, but you'll be subject to ass-hats who now simply annoy you by spamming moronic AoEs inside the banks, now engaging in fighting as well.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Wait, What, Who though this was a good idea. Why would you want to have pvp in a pve environment.
- So, I am in town trying to do something, and some d!ck is gonna attack me.
- I am trying to buy something from a vendor, and in the middle of the transaction, he gets kill by some other player
- I am turning in a quest and trying to get my reward, and the npc gets killed.
The whole point of town is so I can do my dailies and not have to stress out over being attacked.
Again: this is not a free-for-all system.
Based on what we've heard so far, you cannot be targeted for justice system PvP if you aren't participating in it. Period. So you cannot be an unsuspecting target unless you're just a generally clueless person..
There's many forms of griefing open world PVP makes possible other than simply being attackable oneself.
It's why dueling shouldn't be allowed outside of PVP areas, as well.
So just beacuse there will be flashing lights in your screen you're against people fighting around you.
So selfish...
So just because I don't want some NPCs killed or not to have people acting like idiots in PVE areas I want to leave the PVP in the PVP areas. This takes nothing away from you. heck make MORE PVP areas. Just don't put the PVP in the PVE area.
If we are gonna call people selfish how is putting PVP in PVE any different?
Putting PVP in PVE is not being selfish, it's implementing the stealing and justice mechanics the game was suposed to have since the bgining?1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It is.nerevarine1138 wrote: »choice is important.
And as for forcing pvp on pve players - no, it needs to stay accessible to all subscribers. I believe ZOS will understand that. If they don't, they soon will when they see our reaction.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is.nerevarine1138 wrote: »choice is important.
And as for forcing pvp on pve players - no, it needs to stay accessible to all subscribers. I believe ZOS will understand that. If they don't, they soon will when they see our reaction.
Ok. Now I just have to ask, because I've explained this ad nauseam:
How will this force PvP on PvE players?----
Murray?2 -
[/quote]
By that logic, we shouldn't allow people to use abilities in town, because it annoys others. And honestly, what do you think will be more annoying? The occasional fight breaking out between player-guards and player-criminals? Or a player-criminal leading every single NPC guard into the bank and spamming AoEs to kill them?[/quote]
No...for me it would be players leading guards AND other players around in areas where people are just trying to do their PVE play. I think this will happen ALL THE FREAKING TIME.kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
No, but you'll be subject to ass-hats who now simply annoy you by spamming moronic AoEs inside the banks, now engaging in fighting as well.nerevarine1138 wrote: »Wait, What, Who though this was a good idea. Why would you want to have pvp in a pve environment.
- So, I am in town trying to do something, and some d!ck is gonna attack me.
- I am trying to buy something from a vendor, and in the middle of the transaction, he gets kill by some other player
- I am turning in a quest and trying to get my reward, and the npc gets killed.
The whole point of town is so I can do my dailies and not have to stress out over being attacked.
Again: this is not a free-for-all system.
Based on what we've heard so far, you cannot be targeted for justice system PvP if you aren't participating in it. Period. So you cannot be an unsuspecting target unless you're just a generally clueless person..
There's many forms of griefing open world PVP makes possible other than simply being attackable oneself.
It's why dueling shouldn't be allowed outside of PVP areas, as well.
So just beacuse there will be flashing lights in your screen you're against people fighting around you.
So selfish...
So just because I don't want some NPCs killed or not to have people acting like idiots in PVE areas I want to leave the PVP in the PVP areas. This takes nothing away from you. heck make MORE PVP areas. Just don't put the PVP in the PVE area.
If we are gonna call people selfish how is putting PVP in PVE any different?
Putting PVP in PVE is not being selfish, it's implementing the stealing and justice mechanics the game was suposed to have since the bgining?
I'm gonna have to agree to disagree there. I see no reason the PVP portion of this can not be restricted to already existing PVP areas. I don't have issue with the justice system. I have issue with PVP in PVE.
edit: I have said my opinion. I will leave this thread to you all now. I'm not gonna change my view and you all aren't going to change yours.Edited by kassandratheclericb14_ESO on July 10, 2014 1:34PM4 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It is.nerevarine1138 wrote: »choice is important.
And as for forcing pvp on pve players - no, it needs to stay accessible to all subscribers. I believe ZOS will understand that. If they don't, they soon will when they see our reaction.
Ok. Now I just have to ask, because I've explained this ad nauseam:
How will this force PvP on PvE players?
Well it's obvious, they want to be able to kill, steal and do anything they want on NPCs without any repercusions.0 -
nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It is.nerevarine1138 wrote: »choice is important.
And as for forcing pvp on pve players - no, it needs to stay accessible to all subscribers. I believe ZOS will understand that. If they don't, they soon will when they see our reaction.
Ok. Now I just have to ask, because I've explained this ad nauseam:
How will this force PvP on PvE players?
Well it's obvious, they want to be able to kill, steal and do anything they want on NPCs without any repercusions.
That isn't what I or anyone else said. Guards kill to their hearts content. Not other players.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »
No...for me it would be players leading guards AND other players around in areas where people are just trying to do their PVE play. I think this will happen ALL THE FREAKING TIME.
Well, I find it really annoying to encounter terribly written RP conversations when I just want to go to the local inn and cook some stuff. Do you think we should ban RP in public areas?
People who want to annoy you are always going to find ways to do that. This system wouldn't make it any easier or harder.----
Murray?1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
How will this force PvP on PvE players?
As I said, and apparently it went over your head at the time - players will enjoy stealing from NPCs and killing NPCs, very much like we already do in the quests, but will not enjoy having random players start tearing at them with kill skills.
People will prefer to keep it NPC-based all through, and if other players MUST be involved according to ZOS, they better make it so it's a whole new skill that does not involve any actual kill skills, so it's more like a snowball fight than it is pvp and the humiliation of getting wiped out in a public place due to sucking at pvp.1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread is gettin' a lil bit out of the subject (mainly because people just read the title and go "Oh NOES" instead of reading the content).
What I proposed since the begining was to implement PVP in SOME PVE areas and to include this in the justice syskassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It is.nerevarine1138 wrote: »choice is important.
And as for forcing pvp on pve players - no, it needs to stay accessible to all subscribers. I believe ZOS will understand that. If they don't, they soon will when they see our reaction.
Ok. Now I just have to ask, because I've explained this ad nauseam:
How will this force PvP on PvE players?
Well it's obvious, they want to be able to kill, steal and do anything they want on NPCs without any repercusions.
That isn't what I or anyone else said. Guards kill to their hearts content. Not other players.
Well that's not what ZOS is planing sorry for you
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AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not really even a good joke. I would just do what I did in L2, flag and go to the level 3 area and stand in player aoes ruining the game for every new subscriber they get once the game goes on sale.“Whatever.”
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
How will this force PvP on PvE players?
As I said, and apparently it went over your head at the time - players will enjoy stealing from NPCs and killing NPCs, very much like we already do in the quests, but will not enjoy having random players start tearing at them with kill skills.
People will prefer to keep it NPC-based all through, and if other players MUST be involved according to ZOS, they better make it so it's a whole new skill that does not involve any actual kill skills, so it's more like a snowball fight than it is pvp and the humiliation of getting wiped out in a public place due to sucking at pvp.
Ok, so let me keep this straight.
It will force players who want to steal and kill with impunity to actually consider the ramifications of their actions? That's not actually forcing anyone to do anything. You do realize that, right?
If you want (and that's the key word here) to be a criminal, then you have two choices:
1. Accept that your actions have consequences and be prepared to have fight or elude the guards.
2. Be so good at what you do that you never get flagged.
And yes, option 2 is completely viable. After my first trip to jail in Morrowind, I have never, ever, ever had a bounty in an Elder Scrolls game. So no one is forcing anything on you. Period.----
Murray?4