Templar Update

madangrypally

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Sad there is nothing in the future for PvE Templars. I mainly PvP and find Templars are in a decent spot, but overall Templars needs some buffs.

What I would like to see:
Fix Stamina Weapon scaling.
Abilities Scale: (Max Stamina + Max Magicka) / 2
Or Scale: Whichever Stat is higher.
This will help templars as it makes other weapon types more viable.

Resource Management:
Reduce all class abilities magicka cost by 20% and change give a passive the increase in combat recovery by 10%.

Damage Boost:
Passive Changes:
Balanced Warrior: Increases Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 4% per Aedric Spear ability slotted. Remove the Spell resistance.

Enduring Rays: Replace with someone else entirely and just increase Novas duration by 20%.

Abilities:
Solar Flare: Make this boost Spell Damage by a set amount while slotted and remove the next damage boost. Greatly increase the travel time.
Dark Flare: No change other then increased travel time.
Solar Barrage: Spell Damage bonus is given to all allies attacking targets effected for 4 seconds.

Backlash: Make this explode as soon as it reaches the damage cap. Make this similar to Sorcerers Curse as only one can be up at a time per Templar. Allow the damage cap to be crit for 1.5 times the damage cap. Slightly lower the damage cap and make it not absorb the same type of damage as the backlash explosion.

Slightly increase the damage of damage abilities.

Blazing Shield: If cast withen 4 seconds make it cost 50% more magicka. Do the same with a few other class abilities like Dragon Blood.

JLB

madangrypally wrote: »

Blazing Shield: If cast withen 4 seconds make it cost 50% more magicka. Do the same with a few other class abilities like Dragon Blood.

I could agree without the rest of your post, but nerfing BS? Nope. Just because there's an exploit right now (I heard it's fixed by update 4) doesn't mean the actual "unbugged" skill needs a nerf.
How effective would be the only defensive skill Templars have if they increased its cost the more you spam it. It's an ability designed and created to be spammed. a 1k shield (bypassing all mitigations) is not as much as you would think it is.
The only problem with this skill is the actual exploit.

If you want to go that road, there would be just too many skills other classes use that should suffer the same penalty, not only GDB.

Reco

I thought this thread was meant to be about fixing templar because it is broken and weaker than other classes. And people are coming to it suggesting nerfs, making Templars even weaker. Wow, just wow. Let me applaud you.

madangrypally

I dont want to see nerfs but I do feel blazing shield needs to be fixed without breaking us. If people thought my post were full of nerfs then they do not understand the Templar well enough.

===========================
Blazing Shield: This is currently allowing Templars to recast Blazing shield before it explodes to build up crazy damage explosions. 4k+ damage is easy to do.

Fix:
The best solution to Blazing Shield is this: Blazing Shield explodes when shield ends or when shield is recast. This will prevent people exploiting it and building up 4k+ explosions.

I do not want to see them adding a damage cap on it because that just means it will never gain critical damage. Blacklash damage cap for example can not crit when at cap which sucks.

I would not like an increased cost added to it unless a lot of other abilities have a similar mechanic added to it. IE: Dragon blood, Hardened Ward, Shadow cloak, etc.

==================

Passive Changes:
Balanced Warrior: Increases Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 4% per Aedric Spear ability slotted. Remove the Spell resistance.

Even with removing Spell resistant this is a big buff to the passive IMO and something I much rather have then the spell resistance. The 4% is per Aedric Spear ability slotted as well as both spell damage and weapon damage. If using 3 Aedric spear abilities this means 12% increase spell damage and weapon damage.
=================

Enduring Rays: Replace with someone else entirely and just increase Novas duration by 20%.

This is currently broke as it increase the duration of Blacklash which hurts the effect. If they remove the passive they can replace it with something better. They need to increase Nova duration and instead of a passive, ZoS can just increase its base duration.
=================

Abilities:
Solar Flare: Make this boost Spell Damage by a set amount while slotted and remove the next damage boost. Greatly increase the travel time.
Dark Flare: No change other then increased travel time.
Solar Barrage: Spell Damage bonus is given to all allies attacking targets effected for 4 seconds.

The Spell/Weapon damage bonus currently only applies to the next attack from any source. That includes light attack, dot ticks, and damage from other players. Thus this is not benefiting the Templar most of the time or is being wasted on low damage dot ticks. The suggestions I listed above means it will always benefit the Templar. I much rather have 12 spell damage that always works for me then 44 spell damage that only rarely works when needed.
=================

Backlash: Make this explode as soon as it reaches the damage cap. Make this similar to Sorcerers Curse as only one can be up at a time per Templar. Allow the damage cap to be crit for 1.5 times the damage cap. Slightly lower the damage cap and make it not absorb the same type of damage as the backlash explosion.

This is a buff even with the limit of 1 per templar as the current use is buggy at most. Changing this to explode as soon as it reaches damage cap means it can actually be used reliably. Allowing it to crit will help its damage. The 1 per templar limit will be needed at this point and making sure it doesnt absorb other backlash damage. Otherwise Templars will just create chain reactions.
====================

Slightly increase the damage of damage abilities.
====================


The only nerf I suggested was to Blazing Shield and I feel this needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. I do not want them to destroy the ability though and much prefer it exploding when recast or it ends. This is what it should be doing anyway.

GTech_1

This is easier to fix than you guys are trying to make it ...

The blazing shield fix is already in the works.

All that really needs to be done is: Reduce the cost of templar abilities across the board, and remove those damn artificial cool downs on the abilities.

A magicka regen skill would be nice as well.

If these changes were made, Templars would do higher base damage (minus the blazing shield bug) because they could use their abilities more often.

There. Fixed.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Sadly, folks, I think it is time to read the writing on the wall. It has been three months of silence. The only conclusion we can draw is that ZoS thinks that by tweaking a few weak abilities to make them slightly less weak, buffing a few abilities no one asked to be buffed (Biting Jabs, Blazing Shield), and agreeing to look into the mana management issue (but never actually doing anything about it), it appears ZOS thinks it has fixed Templars.

The food chain for the forseeable future appears to be:
1. DKs/Sorcs
2. NBs
3. Templars

and:

1. Light Armor (medium armor if you want a NB)
2. Heavy armor.

Nothing I've seen suggests any of this will change in the forseeable future, if at all. ZOS seems to have given up.

Sad, but it appears to be the truth.

About the best we can hope for at this point is that they at least respond to the many requests asking for a clarification of whether they will actually be doing anything about Templar mana management, or whether when they said they heard the players 'clear and loud' they were just giving us marketing BS. That at least I think we deserve.

JLB

So, what the *** is up with Templars fixes and buffs devs?
I'm seriously running out of patience. 5 months and just some minor fixes. Great, great job ZOS.
Keep on boosting and fixing certain classes that have been already the best classes since launch, while leaving the others aside, I hope they are enough to pay your salaries soon because as it is now just don't count on my money.

Kaliki

[Proposed fixes]
Focused Healing:
This passive is still not working reliably, tested it again yesterday with a friend. The 30 % healing power sometimes gets applied when we are standing in our Extended Ritual, sometimes not.
Note: You can get the bonus healing even if standing in other templars "area of protection", which according to the tooltip it should be only your healing spells buffed in your area of protection.

Power of the light:
This morph's damage bonus doesn't correctly show in the character sheet (only ever an increase of 2-3 weapon power.
Also, the tooltip says it increases power, however it only increases weapon power.

I would be in favour of changing this ability altogether, like @madangrypally has posted above. Make it explode upon reaching the cap and perhaps change this morph into something else. Right now the morphs effect discourages casting the ability, as recasting means losing the 10% buff and starting building it up at 2 % again. Right now it is an ability that is best cast by only one templar and only every about 16 seconds (if you want to have optimal buff uptime), so its use is quite limited.

[Proposed tweak]
Healing Ritual:
This spell is currently lacking as Healing Springs is by far more effective. What about changing Ritual's morphs to be a little more useful? Like one morph reducing the cast time by a considerable amount and the other increasing range by a lot? Or the second morph granting a little HoT right afterwards?

david.haypreub18_ESO

Nearly three months now since anything has been said about the mana management issue. I guess that's it for Templars?

radiostar

Is using a Restoration stave with absorb glyph on it the intended way a Templar is supposed to return some magicka? Are you going to make another way for us?

david.haypreub18_ESO

It looks increasingly like the devs are content with Templars being pushed towards the healing role to function in high-end content. The nerf to Healing Springs seems almost a tacit admission that Templars will be considered fixed so long as they are the best at healing, even if that means they are the worst at DPS.

JamilaRaj

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Sadly, folks, I think it is time to read the writing on the wall. It has been three months of silence. The only conclusion we can draw is that ZoS thinks that by tweaking a few weak abilities to make them slightly less weak, buffing a few abilities no one asked to be buffed (Biting Jabs, Blazing Shield), and agreeing to look into the mana management issue (but never actually doing anything about it), it appears ZOS thinks it has fixed Templars.

Blazing Shield needed removal of penalty to magicka regen, especially in the light of raised softcaps.

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

The food chain for the forseeable future appears to be:
1. DKs/Sorcs
2. NBs
3. Templars

DKs seem to me to have the upper hand. Sorcs are okay, but ability (= Bolt Escape) to force draw/restart (in latter case Dark Exchange comes to play) makes 1v1 uneven on bit different level; fight where only you are commited is fight to be avoided. NBs either have to win fast or else.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Here's an interesting thread from Reddit about what the best ultimates in the game are.

You'll notice that there are very few mentions of any of the Templar ultimates, but there's a lot of talk about Negate Magic, Standard and Veil of Blades. Nova is occasionally mentioned, with the caveat almost always following, 'if it weren't so pricey.'

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2hbbov/discussion_best_ultimate_in_the_game_according_to/

JLB

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Here's an interesting thread from Reddit about what the best ultimates in the game are.

You'll notice that there are very few mentions of any of the Templar ultimates, but there's a lot of talk about Negate Magic, Standard and Veil of Blades. Nova is occasionally mentioned, with the caveat almost always following, 'if it weren't so pricey.'

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2hbbov/discussion_best_ultimate_in_the_game_according_to/

No wonder.

cuz_mike200

Increase all templar abilities' damage and effectiveness, increase sun fire's animation speed and I will be happy .

Soris

At least, fix the wonky animations and stupid cooldowns of solar barrage and focused charge. It has been 6 months since relase but the problem still persist and there is not any official response about it. What are you guys doing in that office for *** sake?

Kcttocs

Make where I can block and spam Biting Jabs and I will be happy, even if you don't increase my dps.

JLB

cuz_mike200 wrote: »

Increase all templar abilities' damage and effectiveness, increase sun fire's animation speed and I will be happy .

faernaa wrote: »

At least, fix the wonky animations and stupid cooldowns of solar barrage and focused charge.

They indeed do need some attention in the dps area and the animations, but they also need to tweak a couple of passives to have better synergy in general. And of course, the magicka sustain problem.
There are tons of good suggestions all along these 12 pages, and no wonder most of them are spinning around the same 2 or 3 fixes/boosts.

eliisra

Kcttocs wrote: »

Make where I can block and spam Biting Jabs and I will be happy, even if you don't increase my dps.

I used to Immovable + Biting Jab, to avoid being totally vulnerable while casting it. Jabs can be a pain in the butt to cancel mid-cast, if you actually need to block for real, for protection. Something with the animation, it's not responding quick enough.

Used to work well, but Immovable is buggy and derp since 1.3.3. Sucks for Templar, since it's the is most Immovable-dependant class in the game. We cant avoid CC with block as effectively as DK's. We dont have the block synergy and the stamina passives. We also lack escape and movement boosts, so we get caught in CC more frequently than NB/Sorc.

Mumyo

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Below is an early look at the improvements we will be releasing next week, for the Templar. This is a small part of our ongoing class and skill line efforts, and there will be more to come.
in a thousand years!

"Templar: These traveling knights call upon the powers of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring health, magicka and stamina to their allies!" Thats what in the character creation screen and made me go for templar.... nothing of it is true except the powers of the light which hardly suck in pvp. Thx.

Massive damage. ahahahahahhahahahahha

AngryNord

Make the Templar class viable as it is shown and described in the character selection (i.e. wearing heavy armour, two-handed weapon and doing immense damage) - or change the description and illustration, and give those of us that modelled our Templars on these, a free total respec.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Great post (with numbers!) in another thread on the Templar's abilities, esp. the problems with the Dawn's Wrath tree, here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/134352/power-of-the-light-and-dark-flare#latest

KenjiJU

Additions to their current effects.

Balanced Warrior - Passive - Add 4% mana return on melee heavy attack

Radiant Aura - Slotted - Add 10-15% magicka regen for the player, no changes to Activation portion

david.haypreub18_ESO

Good post here by a Templar who tried to go heavy armor in PvP as a Templar, and ran into the mana management issue. It is compounded of course by wearing heavy armor, but worse for Templars of course because they have the worst mana management:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/134778/so-i-tried-using-heavy-armor#latest

eserras7b16_ESO

Inco wrote: »

Oh.. Cogo.. get off your horse.. No really.. it's blocking our view.

Meanwhile, We are GLAD (Giddy even) to see ZOS has magically appeared and ready to address the TEMPLAR issues that are the laughing stock of the game. Would have been nice to see it mentioned in the Road Map, but whatever.

DPS and MAGICKA

While I agree we got some nice DPS BUFF's here the CORE PROBLEM still exists and that needs to be addressed before most people will say.... "OKAY they actually CARE about this class"... MAGICKA REGEN is crap with Templars... period.

Me.. my VR12 Templar Healer will continue to craft and sit at the bank even after these changes, because they didn't do anything for my specific build.

My VR6 Templar Healer can perfectly heal Crypt of Hearths Veteran mode from the start till the end. DPS on Templars might be lower than other classes (didn't really test) but I can speak out for healing: We are the best. And I don't miss magicka. Go craft some pots.

glak

KenjiJU wrote: »

Additions to their current effects.

Balanced Warrior - Passive - Add 4% mana return on melee heavy attack

Radiant Aura - Slotted - Add 10-15% magicka regen for the player, no changes to Activation portion

These would go a long way to fix the magicka regeneration issue.

The slotted passive suggestion adds more to the tradeoff decision of both bars or one. I would remove the increased radius for more magicka regen.

Baphomet

@ZOS, it's been almost four months since this thread launched and you asked the community to provide feedback regarding the templar class and things they would like to see.

Any chance we could get a response from a dev soon just to get an idea of where the class stands currently?

@ZoS_Jessica_Folsom @ZoSGina_Bruno

booksmcread

So, since I didn't see any Templar love included in the 1.5 patch notes on the PTS, I decided to make a personal wish list for some Templar updates. I realize none of these will probably see the light of day, but thought I'd put them here regardless. Most of these are based on personal preference and the playstyle I have adapted over the past six months. So, you may differ in opinion and they may not meet your needs. some have been posted elsewhere in other threads or repeated by other players. Others have been pulled out of the old brain which works better on some days than others (hopefully it's a good brain day today).

I don't think Templars need buffs, but they do need to tweaks to realize the potential of the class. In PVP they are quite powerful and in PVE, they make excellent healers and good tanks. I do alright DPS wise, but feel like when I look at my skill descriptions, I could do much better if things worked slightly different. I'm not asking for much in the way of damage increases. I'm more interested in small changes to our abilities.

Lastly, I'm not going to touch on magicka management here. This topic has been posted on numerous times already. I will save that for another thread if it doesn't get addressed down the road.

Aedric Spear
Not too much to adjust here, it's a good line. I wouldn't mind seeing the damage based on range of Aurora Javelin increased a bit.

What I most definitely want to see is the GCD removed from Focused Charge and the range on Radial Sweep increased. A 5m radius on an ultimate ability of this nature is pretty small. Due to the radius, it oftentimes makes this skill difficult to use effectively. Not that it can't be used effectively, but increasing the range to 8m would make it a much more popular ability. If it were a skill that did damage over 8 or 15 seconds, a 5m radius would be fine. But since it is an instant skill that does significantly less damage compared to other ultimates, I believe a radius increase is warranted.

Dawn's Wrath
Lots to do here in this line. So much promise, but the delivery is lacking. Sun Fire is a great ability, except for it's excruciatingly slow travel time to target. I have seen people in PVP just move (not dodge, move) out of the way and it misses. This skill should be like a heat seeking missile that goes out fast and follows its target until impact.

Solar Flare is another skill in need of some adjustments. The cast time and travel time of Dark Flare are just too much. In Trials, including this skill in my setup was actually reducing my DPS. And the buff you are supposed to get from this skill just doesn't work. Sometimes you get it, sometimes someone else in your group gets it, sometimes is just fails. The buff from this skill needs to apply to the Templar and either the cast time or travel time needs to go. I suppose both could be reduced, but I wouldn't mind seeing the cast time remain, but with no travel time, just an instant hit on target. You could even change the description to be someting along the lines of, "You call down a flare from the sun..." and after the induction, the flare hits the target from directly above. The Solar Barage morph is fine, but it just feels so clunky when I use it, that I don't use it. I imagine its buff suffers the same problem as Dark Flare. Can anyone confirm this?

Backlash sounded so awesome when I first acquired it so many months ago. And while I still play around with Power of the Light from time to time, this skill seems to miss the mark. First, Purifying Light and Power of the Light should stack. I would also like to see a much better visual of the effect of this skill. For instance, make Power of the Light explode on expiration. Up the damage cap to match the damage expected with new soft caps. And, while I haven't done any direct testing on this myself, I don't think I'm getting much from the buff this skill is supposed to give. It might be broken like Dark Flare.

I don't really use Eclipse. You can't use it on significant enough targets (as they are immune to CC and for some reason this skill is classified as CC) and in PVP, people can CC break the skill or just remove it with Purge. Frankly, I have no idea what to do with this skill other than maybe don't classify it as CC, just a negative effect. I'm not sure if that would make it too overpowered or not, but something needs to happen with it. It seems like it would be really useful in PVE if it worked differently.

Blinding Light is a good skill. I like it and use it often. And it would be a great skill is the radius were increased. Using this in dungeons is nice, but mobs just don't clump together enough to get this skill to hit them. And since we don't have any roots to hold them together, I think an 8m radius is a good adjustment to make it more effective.

Illuminate. It doesn't work as far as I can tell. Fix it or change it, please. Maybe you could just make it a spell resist passive and change Balanced Warrior's spell resistance to an armor bonus so there is no duplication.

Nova. I like this ultimate, but why is it the most expensive ultimate in the game? I could understand if it struck fear in the hearts of NPCs and peasants alike (i.e. non-Templars), but it doesn't. And when I see it in Cyrodiil, I dont' even dodge-roll out of it. I just walk out of it's radius, snared and all. It doesn't do enough damage for me to care about it when I'm negatively affected by it. I see Consuming Darkness (NB) and Nova on similar levels, more specifically Veil of Blades. They both do damage, snare, reduce incoming damage, and offer a synergy. So why does Nova cost 100 more ultimate? Nova should cost at least 50 less ultimate than it does now, if not 100, putting it on par with Veil.

Restoring Light
There isn't much to change here. It's a really good line. Maybe you could tweak Rite of Passage to allow you to move really, really slow while channeling this skill. similar to Healing Ritual. That would just be a personal preference because some very odd folks like to run out of my healing range when I'm trying to keep them alive. This would allow me to stay with the group a little better. Also, it would be nice if Rune Focus had a larger radius. It's a really tiny, tiny spot to stay in to receive the buff. I used this quite a bit when I was tanking some of the vet dungeons. Since you have to frequently move as a tank, using this skill seems a waste at times due to the really small radius. I wouldn't mind seeing it double in size.

The passives seem fine, except that Master Ritualist doesn't always work. I always keep plenty of empty soul gems on me and once in a while when I rez someone, I get the message that you need a valid soul gem and it doesn't work.

That's all for now. Keep fighting the good fight.

May the blessing of light be on you—
Light without and light within.
May the blessed sunlight shine on you and warm your heart
Till it glows like a great fire.

blackweb

Awesome! Devs

Lizelle

Right of Passage and it's morphs only hits 4 targets so it's useless in Trials.

I couldn't believe an ult would be that bad, so I tested it. I had people in my raid in AA Spell Symmetry their health and then healed with Remembrance, only 4 people got healed... It's total garbage right now and needs to be fixed.