Malyore wrote: »

I'd rather see a character wield a black soul gem in front of them, do the little arm animation to draw out a power, and then fire a magical projectile from it. That way people can still have their purple crystals if they like them, but it's not as absurd looking.
A sorcerers soul gem could even be their own version of the arcanist tome. Especially since arcanist feels, in many ways, like what sorcerer should have been.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Personally I'm dreading the new trade bar system.

When companies make changes like this, in every case I'm aware of, these kinds of changes result in the customer paying more to get less. Companies restructure their payment/rewards systems to benefit their bottom line, not to benefit the customer.

So we'll see how it goes.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

I agree, I’d get rid of the two pet abilities also.

I’m a non pet Sorc but I have worked with pets and tried to give them a fair shake and the truth is they’re lackluster now.

We have 3 pets, the Familiar is a joke. It doesn’t have any real damage scaling so its only real contribution is a body block. So what is that, in terms of play style? A pet that might absorb some ranged attacks? While the player just sits behind? If we look at how gameplay combat functions in the current state that strategy would see the Sorc contributing little, lagging behind the team to try and pop off shots from behind the Familair. The mechanics of the Fmailiars stun is even poor; requiring a player to stand there and allow themselves to be CC’d.

Then we have the Twilight. This is structured for healing roles and 9 times out of 10 no healer is using a Sorc as their main class. So this leaves the Twilight as yet another potential body block and self heal. Since Subclassing there are better self heals available than the Twilight so despite the fact that it’s a solid heal value it’s still not competitive. It doesn’t have any real output and Sorcs can heal without it.

Lastly we have the Atronach Ult. This is probably the most useful out of the 3 but even then. The damage scaling is far less than even World Ults like Dawnbreaker and its radius is easily avoidable. Ults such as DK’s “Leap” even have better post-burst DoT application whereas with the Ateonach, again, the player has to “stand in the stupid” for it to be effective. Its usefulness ends shortly after its initial activation and given that it’s a higher cost Ult it’s obviously why this isn’t common.

So what does all this mean? What are we saying is supposed to be the Sorc play style if we were to compromise and keep pets? .. just sit behind them and range attack while they do little besides block some ranged attacks? .. is that going to be the Sorc identity? That’s pretty woeful to me. Pets don’t bring anything to the table besides body blocks and one heal; whereas Necro pets can scale to noteworthy damage, have legitimate range and mobility, and aren’t plagued by clumsy control schemes.

Plus, we also have Stam based ability morphs in the Sorc lines. Those Stam based morphs don’t align with a “pet” play style of camping behind body blocks. So what? Do we get rid of the Stam skills that people do use in favor of lackluster pets? Why would we do that?

Pets are even more of a liability when we consider that attackers can use them as gap closers with their abilities; targeting the pet to get to you.

When we talk about “play style” for Sorc, nobody has made a good play style case for Sorc pets that fits in the modern state of combat; especially with subclassing.

I can sit here and demonstrate how and why Sorc pets don’t stack up. But what I can’t do is suggest how to make them competitive and keep them lore relevant; in any meaningful play style. And for that reason I think that’s why we need to pivot Sorcs away from pets.

Agree too. In endgame or other competitive situations, pets are completely rejected by skilled players. Neither DPS, Tank, nor Healer use permanent pets, and Atronach is only used because Sorc's other ultimate abilities are harder to use, and the raid needs the buffs provided by Atronach, not its damage.



It's harsh, but various sources have proven that the current pet system in ZOS is a failure and needs a complete overhaul or removal.
The current pet system has several obvious drawbacks:

1. Lack of interactivity and cooperative gameplay: Pets are mostly limited to active and passive attacks, lacking other more interesting roles such as providing shields or consistent buffs/debuffs.

2. Lack of powerful AoE damage: Having already wasted two skill slots, pets not only fail to provide useful buffs but also cannot deliver powerful AoE damage, making them largely useless in the endgame.

3. Blocking vision: This is absolutely terrible, completely disrupting cooperation between Pet-Sorc and other players, especially Tanks. Before subclasses were introduced, I was repeatedly asked to remove pets to avoid obstructing other players' vision. In mechanics like RGhm, which require players to constantly observe their surroundings, pets only become obstacles.

4. Pets are easily killed by mechanics, and resummoning them requires a significant waste of time and resources: While ZOS grants pets some damage immunity in PvE,but they can still be killed by some mechanics like Trials and IA. Furthermore, mechanics like the final boss in Stone Garden, which require players to transform, can force pets to disappear, severely impacting the gameplay experience.

5. Pets cannot proc some sets: Having already wasted skill slots, pets not only lack powerful AoE damage but also reduce the player's chance/frequency of proc sets, significantly diminishing the value of using pets.

Syldras wrote: »

[...]
So, another thing - though I'm aware that some people have already read it elsewhere, but it fits this thread so well:

I just came across this lorebook inside the Belkarth tavern, upstairs. I had not seen it on the first day of the event, probably because it had been so crowded there:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Reigniting_Love_for_Contemporary_Audiences

Now, I'm aware that this is a fictional document from a fictional author. But I think the view that is voiced there about writing and about the public's criticism and how tto react on it, is interesting to discuss, nonetheless. Especially this passage caught my intention, which is about how that theater author perceives criticism about, for example, plot holes:
"I think so often about the sensibilities of contemporary audiences. Gone are the years of quietly interrogating a play's themes and values. Now, I often find rabbles of theatergoers huddled outside playhouses, wrestling not with the work itself, but with a perceived merit measured against such mindless drivel as plot holes and unlikable characters."
Also the topic of "values" (I read it as "moral lessons"?) is touched there.

Of course, this is also interesting, about the perceived need to change old, established stories for "commoners" or new audiences:
"But if stories are to survive, they must change with the times, yes? And I hear my critics now. How dare she reduce tragedy to fashionable action? To which I say, do the commoners not deserve art?"
[...]

NxJoeyD wrote: »

I agree, I’d get rid of the two pet abilities also.

I’m a non pet Sorc but I have worked with pets and tried to give them a fair shake and the truth is they’re lackluster now.

We have 3 pets, the Familiar is a joke. It doesn’t have any real damage scaling so its only real contribution is a body block. So what is that, in terms of play style? A pet that might absorb some ranged attacks? While the player just sits behind? If we look at how gameplay combat functions in the current state that strategy would see the Sorc contributing little, lagging behind the team to try and pop off shots from behind the Familair. The mechanics of the Fmailiars stun is even poor; requiring a player to stand there and allow themselves to be CC’d.

Then we have the Twilight. This is structured for healing roles and 9 times out of 10 no healer is using a Sorc as their main class. So this leaves the Twilight as yet another potential body block and self heal. Since Subclassing there are better self heals available than the Twilight so despite the fact that it’s a solid heal value it’s still not competitive. It doesn’t have any real output and Sorcs can heal without it.

Lastly we have the Atronach Ult. This is probably the most useful out of the 3 but even then. The damage scaling is far less than even World Ults like Dawnbreaker and its radius is easily avoidable. Ults such as DK’s “Leap” even have better post-burst DoT application whereas with the Ateonach, again, the player has to “stand in the stupid” for it to be effective. Its usefulness ends shortly after its initial activation and given that it’s a higher cost Ult it’s obviously why this isn’t common.

So what does all this mean? What are we saying is supposed to be the Sorc play style if we were to compromise and keep pets? .. just sit behind them and range attack while they do little besides block some ranged attacks? .. is that going to be the Sorc identity? That’s pretty woeful to me. Pets don’t bring anything to the table besides body blocks and one heal; whereas Necro pets can scale to noteworthy damage, have legitimate range and mobility, and aren’t plagued by clumsy control schemes.

Plus, we also have Stam based ability morphs in the Sorc lines. Those Stam based morphs don’t align with a “pet” play style of camping behind body blocks. So what? Do we get rid of the Stam skills that people do use in favor of lackluster pets? Why would we do that?

Pets are even more of a liability when we consider that attackers can use them as gap closers with their abilities; targeting the pet to get to you.

When we talk about “play style” for Sorc, nobody has made a good play style case for Sorc pets that fits in the modern state of combat; especially with subclassing.

I can sit here and demonstrate how and why Sorc pets don’t stack up. But what I can’t do is suggest how to make them competitive and keep them lore relevant; in any meaningful play style. And for that reason I think that’s why we need to pivot Sorcs away from pets.