Just wanted to wish everyone the best this week, no matter what Daedric Prince you worship.
December can be a very hard month, so be sure to take care of yourselves and remember to call your loved ones.
I also want to say, this is perfect time to take a vacation and escape to your Steam backlogs to refresh for the new year, I see you Expedition 33. 👀
Same. Working on a mods rebuild for Skyrim SE. Haven't played in years but the benefit is most mods are ready by now.
I’ve been trying to hunt down a mod I saw awhile ago that turns the combat into a Souls-like, with lock-on and health bars.
It has alluded me to this day.
BasP
Artisian0001 wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »I really don’t understand how Warden’s charm (class mastery) is allowed to function the way it does in PvP.
It’s an AoE CC that is:
- Unblockable
- Undodgeable
- Applies a snare
- Guaranteed CC
That alone is already absurd, but when you pair it with Dark Convergence, it becomes completely oppressive. You either get pulled in and stunned or get charmed, and then forced to eat a fully timed burst window with 100% certainty. There is no reaction check. No skill expression. No counterplay. You just die if the other player presses their buttons correctly. What makes this even more frustrating is that every other charm-style ability in the game has counterplay like being blockable.
But for some reason, Warden’s version ignores all of that. Why? Why does one class get a charm that bypasses every core defensive mechanic in ESO PvP?
- Block doesn’t work.
- Roll dodge doesn’t work.
- Positioning doesn’t matter because it’s AoE.
At that point, PvP stops being about decision-making.
If the intent is for charms to be powerful CC tools, fine—but they should follow the same rules as every other charm in the game. Either: make it blockable or make it dodgable. I would prefer it being blockable to be consistent across charm abilities. Right now, it’s just a free, unavoidable setup button that deletes players with zero counterplay. That’s not balance, and it’s definitely not good PvP design.
Curious how this has gone untouched for so long?
wdym roll dodge doesnt work? you can just roll out of the aoe. I have plenty of fights where the player/s im fighting almost never get hit with that charm. And the same goes for me if i care enough to get out of it. People just move out of it because its extremely easy to do so. Its not a huge aoe. Even when its run with the root you either roll out or snare remove and then run out. If you have no movement speed then thats one thing but thats more of a build issue imo. But it deff has counterplay.
I disagree, and I think this is based on a misunderstanding of how roll dodge and AoEs actually work in ESO PvP.
First off, you cannot dodge roll out of AoE effects. Roll dodge does not negate ground-based AoEs at all—it only avoids dodgeable, direct hits. Rolling simply moves your character; if the AoE CC is already active, the roll itself provides zero immunity to it. So saying “roll dodge works” here just isn’t accurate.
Yes, you can run out of the AoE, but that’s not the same thing as counterplay. To do that, you have to drop block, and the moment you do, you’re extremely vulnerable to incoming burst. In real fights, that means you’re choosing between:
- Staying in the AoE while blocking and getting CC’d anyway, or
- Dropping block to move and eating the full damage combo
That isn’t a skill-based reaction—it's a forced gamble.
The AoE also applies a snare/root, which further limits your ability to simply “walk out,” especially if you’re mid-animation, bar-swapping, or reacting under latency. In actual PvP scenarios, you’re rarely standing still with nothing else happening when this lands.
Saying “people just move out of it” ignores how combat really flows. Players are:
- Casting abilities
- Blocking pressure
- Managing resources
- Reacting to multiple opponents
You don’t always have the luxury of instantly turning and sprinting, especially when the CC is unblockable and undodgable.
Calling it a “build issue” misses the point as well. Counterplay shouldn’t be “stack movement speed or lose.” Every other charm-style CC in the game respects core defensive mechanics like block or dodge. This one doesn’t, and that’s the problem.
Being able to sometimes avoid it if you see it early isn’t meaningful counterplay. When an AoE CC bypasses block, can’t be dodge rolled, applies a snare, and guarantees CC if it connects, that’s not player error—that’s a design issue.
look, you can talk around it all you want but i am telling you that i avoid it, and see people avoid it, countless times, every day. Whether thats rolling out or walking about. if i am dueling someone i can move out of it 90+/100 times. Its just not that hard to do. Just because you drop block does not mean you are automatically going to get bursted. Which is why i also said before that you can always roll out of it. Ofc i know rolling is not going to stop the CC but it does stop most damage while you get out.
Like i said if you dont have at least major expedition, if not major/minor, then ya i can see how it would be difficult. Maybe its even impossible without expedition, i wouldnt know. I don't play without expedition considering how fast everyone is, and plus everyone seems to run away these days.
You call it a forced gamble i call it counterplay. Stay in and take the fear. stop what you are doing and roll or walk out. Pop an immovable pot. These are choices. In fact, you have more choices dealing with this than you do with other CCs, like nightblades fear for example.
Im not even sure why people get made at this skill? Is it because its an unblockable aoe CC? Well what about streak? Or nightblade fear? Or is it just that its unblockable? Petrify? Or is it just that its a scribing skill? Which doesnt make sense to me because a skill is a skill. Now if its just that the charm CC is glitchy, then I agree but thats something zos has to fix with charms.
anyway, im not trying to go back and forth with you about this skill. Im just saying that yes you can dodge/move out of it. Like i said, i do it countless times every day and fight some* people that do it to me every day.
Is this just a troll comment? You can avoid literally anything if you just don't get hit by it, that isn't a logical response at all to this. Your original comment was that you could just roll out of AoEs which shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how ground based AoEs function.
Obviously im talking about getting out of the aoe. Obviously no one thinks you can just dodge roll and avoid an aoe like this. Obviously you didnt read what i wrote in my last post, so ill write it again. Obviously rolling does not stop you from getting hit by the aoe. Its just a way for you to avoid damage while creating some distance to get out of the aoe.
why dont you answer some of my questions about why people hate this skill so much? From the last post. Since im guessing you are not a fan of it.
Yea. Got em all now.
Will also finally finish Baldurs Gate 3 in the next days.
liliub17_ESO wrote: »
The average age of an MMO player is 26 with 25% of players being teenagers. Most formal definitions of "young adult" are 25 and under.
Age demographics can vary, but in the EU about 17% of the population is aged 15 to 29 - a larger bracket than just "teenagers".
So if 25% of teenagers are playing MMOs but make up less than 17% of the population, then yes in fact MMOs are favoured by young gamers more so than older ones.
Ye gods, this makes me feel like an antiquity.
MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »I really don’t understand how Warden’s charm (class mastery) is allowed to function the way it does in PvP.
It’s an AoE CC that is:
- Unblockable
- Undodgeable
- Applies a snare
- Guaranteed CC
That alone is already absurd, but when you pair it with Dark Convergence, it becomes completely oppressive. You either get pulled in and stunned or get charmed, and then forced to eat a fully timed burst window with 100% certainty. There is no reaction check. No skill expression. No counterplay. You just die if the other player presses their buttons correctly. What makes this even more frustrating is that every other charm-style ability in the game has counterplay like being blockable.
But for some reason, Warden’s version ignores all of that. Why? Why does one class get a charm that bypasses every core defensive mechanic in ESO PvP?
- Block doesn’t work.
- Roll dodge doesn’t work.
- Positioning doesn’t matter because it’s AoE.
At that point, PvP stops being about decision-making.
If the intent is for charms to be powerful CC tools, fine—but they should follow the same rules as every other charm in the game. Either: make it blockable or make it dodgable. I would prefer it being blockable to be consistent across charm abilities. Right now, it’s just a free, unavoidable setup button that deletes players with zero counterplay. That’s not balance, and it’s definitely not good PvP design.
Curious how this has gone untouched for so long?
wdym roll dodge doesnt work? you can just roll out of the aoe. I have plenty of fights where the player/s im fighting almost never get hit with that charm. And the same goes for me if i care enough to get out of it. People just move out of it because its extremely easy to do so. Its not a huge aoe. Even when its run with the root you either roll out or snare remove and then run out. If you have no movement speed then thats one thing but thats more of a build issue imo. But it deff has counterplay.
I disagree, and I think this is based on a misunderstanding of how roll dodge and AoEs actually work in ESO PvP.
First off, you cannot dodge roll out of AoE effects. Roll dodge does not negate ground-based AoEs at all—it only avoids dodgeable, direct hits. Rolling simply moves your character; if the AoE CC is already active, the roll itself provides zero immunity to it. So saying “roll dodge works” here just isn’t accurate.
Yes, you can run out of the AoE, but that’s not the same thing as counterplay. To do that, you have to drop block, and the moment you do, you’re extremely vulnerable to incoming burst. In real fights, that means you’re choosing between:
- Staying in the AoE while blocking and getting CC’d anyway, or
- Dropping block to move and eating the full damage combo
That isn’t a skill-based reaction—it's a forced gamble.
The AoE also applies a snare/root, which further limits your ability to simply “walk out,” especially if you’re mid-animation, bar-swapping, or reacting under latency. In actual PvP scenarios, you’re rarely standing still with nothing else happening when this lands.
Saying “people just move out of it” ignores how combat really flows. Players are:
- Casting abilities
- Blocking pressure
- Managing resources
- Reacting to multiple opponents
You don’t always have the luxury of instantly turning and sprinting, especially when the CC is unblockable and undodgable.
Calling it a “build issue” misses the point as well. Counterplay shouldn’t be “stack movement speed or lose.” Every other charm-style CC in the game respects core defensive mechanics like block or dodge. This one doesn’t, and that’s the problem.
Being able to sometimes avoid it if you see it early isn’t meaningful counterplay. When an AoE CC bypasses block, can’t be dodge rolled, applies a snare, and guarantees CC if it connects, that’s not player error—that’s a design issue.
look, you can talk around it all you want but i am telling you that i avoid it, and see people avoid it, countless times, every day. Whether thats rolling out or walking about. if i am dueling someone i can move out of it 90+/100 times. Its just not that hard to do. Just because you drop block does not mean you are automatically going to get bursted. Which is why i also said before that you can always roll out of it. Ofc i know rolling is not going to stop the CC but it does stop most damage while you get out.
Like i said if you dont have at least major expedition, if not major/minor, then ya i can see how it would be difficult. Maybe its even impossible without expedition, i wouldnt know. I don't play without expedition considering how fast everyone is, and plus everyone seems to run away these days.
You call it a forced gamble i call it counterplay. Stay in and take the fear. stop what you are doing and roll or walk out. Pop an immovable pot. These are choices. In fact, you have more choices dealing with this than you do with other CCs, like nightblades fear for example.
Im not even sure why people get made at this skill? Is it because its an unblockable aoe CC? Well what about streak? Or nightblade fear? Or is it just that its unblockable? Petrify? Or is it just that its a scribing skill? Which doesnt make sense to me because a skill is a skill. Now if its just that the charm CC is glitchy, then I agree but thats something zos has to fix with charms.
anyway, im not trying to go back and forth with you about this skill. Im just saying that yes you can dodge/move out of it. Like i said, i do it countless times every day and fight some* people that do it to me every day.
You’re kind of proving my point, though—you’re responding to things I’m not arguing and skipping over the ones I am.
I never said it’s impossible to avoid. I said roll dodge does not counter the AoE CC itself, and that moving out requires dropping block during a pre-timed window, which is the issue. Repositioning ≠ countering the CC. Expedition, immovable pots, and movement speed are external tools, not core counterplay like block or dodge—which every other charm respects.
The core points you’re missing:
- You cannot roll dodge AoEs — rolling only mitigates direct damage while repositioning, it does not counter the CC
- The CC is delayed, making burst timing trivial
- Break free interaction is inconsistent, and you’re always displaced
- Avoiding it by stacking speed doesn’t make the design healthy
Calling it “choices” doesn’t change that it bypasses fundamental defensive mechanics. You may personally avoid it often—and that’s fine—but that doesn’t invalidate the design concerns being raised.
ok ill go point by point for you then.
I never said it’s impossible to avoid. I said roll dodge does not counter the AoE CC itself, and that moving out requires dropping block during a pre-timed window, which is the issue. Repositioning ≠ countering the CC.
I thought it was a given that you cannot dodge aoes like this. But i guess its not so ill elaborate again. Ofc you cannot dodge aoes like this. I am clearly just talking about creating distance, not dodging the effect. But like i said before, attempting to dodge roll out of the aoe does 2 things. It creates distance and makes up for your loss of block, replacing it with another form of defense. Yes it will not stop all the damage in the game, but a good amount of it. But the main point is to create distance.
Expedition, immovable pots, and movement speed are external tools, not core counterplay like block or dodge—which every other charm respects.
You're splitting hairs. So streak is fine because its not a charm? Mass hysteria is fine because its not a charm? Where is the counterplay for streak or mass hysteria? And if your answer is that they arent charms, then we can agree to disagree. Because at that point your issue is just with charms in general. And like i said before thats fine, the charmed CC is a little buggy, but that doesnt make the wardens class mastery broken. It just means charms need to be improved.
- You cannot roll dodge AoEs — rolling only mitigates direct damage while repositioning, it does not counter the CC
answered
- The CC is delayed, making burst timing trivial
i disagree
- Break free interaction is inconsistent, and you’re always displaced
thats an issue with charms in general. And im starting to think thats where your real gripe is, with charm in general.
- Avoiding it by stacking speed doesn’t make the design healthy
Running major expedition on a pvp build in 2025 is neither stacking speed or unreasonable. Its just a good idea. But i also dont think the design is unhealthy. As ive said. I would call it easily avoidable. I think its similar to fear or streak. The main difference is that you dont have 2 seconds to get out of those CCs, like you do with warden class mastery. And that its a charm.
Calling it “choices” doesn’t change that it bypasses fundamental defensive mechanics. You may personally avoid it often—and that’s fine—but that doesn’t invalidate the design concerns being raised
Lots of things bypass fundamental defensive mechanics. This isnt an argument. Unless your argument is that unblockable CCs shouldnt exist. Then thats a different conversation.
to me there isnt much difference between wardens class mastery and streak or fear. But as i said before, if your opinion is that it should not be a charm then im right there with you. And i would even go a step further and say zos should just remove charms in general. There was a reason they changed how nightblade fear worked. And now its just basically what charm is, the old nightblade fear.