Kwoung wrote: »

RDK uses the same data as Hodors and numerous others do in PVE with Ultimate and resource sharing. But for the most part it is just displaying the information already being sent to your client anyways in a useful way for PVPers.

If it was banned, then everyone would just swap to Hodors and use the 20 different little addons that RDK brings into one place. Now if you banned Hodors, the entire PVE trial community would be in an uproar.

@Kwoung

Theres 2 areas of these types of addon,
1) is the group buffs/debuffs functionality which is just in the standard addon API
2) is the use of the ping system with ping locations being assigned to various 'status' updates such as Ulti. All the addons which track ulti work fairly similarly in this manner (which is why they conflict with each other if you have them both turned on).

in some addons like RDK there are also other API calls which can be found separately in Lights of Meridia/ CyroHud etc. Think of it more of just a collection of addons.

Additionally there is already some ping limiting done by ZOS to prevent information from being transferred too often (it will crash your game with the rate limit message).

It should also be noted that these addons don't (as far as I know) access the encounterlog info which the game is already also serving to the client. The encounter log seems really excessive in PVP to me, for example I really dislike the fact that it transfers all gear and skills for each active combat.

Note: I don't personally use RDK as I don't really like it in comparison to our addon.

marlonbrando wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Note: I don't personally use RDK as I don't really like it in comparison to our addon.

(OP here)
Is your addon a private addon or can it be downloaded? I've looked at the code for a lot of the "ping sharing" addons and would love to see how another actively-used addon does things.

Its an updated version of this: https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1787-SanctsUltimateOrganiser.html

There's also https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1643-BanditsUserInterface.html, https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1896-PieceofCandy.html (which im sure you know ) https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2311-HodorReflexes-DPSUltimateShare.html

Anyone who has master merchant loaded while in pvp deserves lag. Most important pvp add on of all is this one

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1161-CirconiansAddonSelector.html

Leslik wrote: »

It is an interesting point. How much of the data exchange is client-server traffic subject to the latency of plain old geographic distance from the megaserver? Add-ons could affect that

I don't even know if Zos could do a no add-ons test as the add-ons are client side. They would have to disable the entire add-on api for pvp. Probably possible and not a silly idea.

I did have my hopes pinned on procs sets being the cause but have to admit that they aren't. shame as I've really enjoyed the last few weeks despite the lag.

It's still all speculation though. consoles have lag but no add-ons

That's what I'm wondering though. Is the same type of lag? Are there situations on the consoles where your character just twitches when you're trying to do something, requiring you to hit a key multiple times? Are there times when you can't even drink a potion? Or is it just that you have to hit a key twice?

The other thing that occurred to me (which sort of negates my theory) is that "physical proximity" in game is only what the game is telling you. If it was other peoples' addons causing the problem then why wouldn't they affect the whole map (or the whole server) rather than just causing lag near you? Although, possibly the server segments things by regions somehow...

As the author of the RdK Group Tool, I'll pick a few posts and comment on them.
If you have a specific question to me, please use @InvitationNotFound in your message.

marlonbrando wrote: »

My guild is convinced that one of the biggest problems with PVP on Gray Host is the addons that some ball groups use to coordinate. We think that possibly the server could get overloaded with things like "map pings" or event notifications when engaging with an enemy group which coordinates with addons like "RDK Group Tool". The negative effects that we see are crashing, inability to use abilities, inability to drink a potion, and inability to break free.

I'm an addon developer myself so I know that it's at least within the realm of possibility that this could be a factor but it's not entirely clear to me how it could be an isolated event, i.e., if there's a ball group engaging players in Blue Road Keep, then those players will experience lag but the players in Glademist likely won't notice it. What would locality have to do with the issue?

I was wondering if console users see extreme lag when they engage with a ball group. Lag meaning, you can't fire your abilities, drink potions, or break free. Are ball groups even a thing on the consoles?

I actually did ask myself the same question.

But the RdK Group Tool shouldn't cause much server stress in my opinion.
A player will send approximately 4 Bytes every second. Which means that this will be 48 Bytes sent to the group (per player). This is not really a lot.
The server does not really have to do much with that data, just simply forward it.
As this happens all the time, i believe that you should feel it all the time if it would have an impact.

Furthermore, i disagree with the BRK and Glade situation. You might feel really bad lag even when nothing is nearby and some action is on the other end of the map.

But to be honest here, some numbers from ZOS in this regard would be nice.

phbell wrote: »

OP is exactly right and RDK should be considered cheating and against the ToS.

It is neither cheating nor against the ToS.

Ranger209 wrote: »

I would say that this addon is to grouping what Miat's was to 1vXing and individual combat. It is way too much information about other people that gives huge advantages to those that have it over those that don't. I really don't see much point in using it as a solo player either as from what I am seeing above nothing interests me from a solo combat perspective.

It does not provide any information about enemies (except the keep's state, but i wouldn't consider that to be an enemy player). Miats abused the system to give you information about players around you, even when they were in stealth.
RdK Group Tool does nothing like that.

marlonbrando wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

OP is exactly right and RDK should be considered cheating and against the ToS.

RDK is an incredible effort from someone who has managed to gather boatloads of useful information provided by game APIs and provide it to the end user. A lot of what it does is available from other addons but the goal of the addon is apparently to be a Swiss army knife.

I didn't mean to imply that it was doing anything illegal and I don't think it should be considered cheating.

The information that it provides to a ball group is different than what a solo player would use. There would be a lot more server traffic when it's used by a ball group since it shares information about ultimates or synergies being used between everyone in the group.

From a solo perspective, among other things, you can get information about keeps that are under attack and have it remind you when your potions or food are running out.

It's really an amazing piece of software. I don't run it but, as a programmer, I really am in awe at the effort that was put into it.

Appreciate that comment mate

VaranisArano wrote: »

CSose wrote: »

I've always wondered how much of a load Master Merchant is on the server. I don't know how RDK works, but there isn't much it doesn't do, so it's got to be checking for a lot of things too. I know for sure when you log on though, MM takes about 10 seconds to stop lagging the game. Maybe MM should put that data retrieval on a toggle? I don't see how RDK could be considered cheating. It does a lot, but nothing like Miats did.

I don't know, but as far as skills go, I think the group heals and purging is probably the main culprit

Master Merchant already had its ability to query the server severely curtailed by ZOS because it was causing issues. I think back in 2019?

As far as i know, the API used in RdK only reads data that is already on the client (at least these are my assumptions as everything else wouldn't make much sense) (except map pins of course) and should not generate any additional load on the servers.

redlink1979 wrote: »

marlonbrando wrote: »

(...) It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has played both PC and console to see if the "lag feel" is the same.

I play on PC with addons and on console without addons.
Yes lag feels about the same on both platforms and gets exponentially worse as the amount of players involved in the fight increases. .

marlonbrando wrote: »

(...) Are there situations on the consoles where your character just twitches when you're trying to do something, requiring you to hit a key multiple times? Are there times when you can't even drink a potion? Or is it just that you have to hit a key twice?(...)

As lag increases, the odds that some/all of my skills won't work properly when I press my keyboard/triggers increase proportionally as it happens too often with the ultimate "Dragonleap" on my DK. Some times I also can't drink a potion at the time I want/need to. Only after several attempts (more than one usually) I achieve success, other times it's just too late.

Thank you! That was the kind of perspective I wanted to hear. It sounds like the console players see the same things we do on the PC. That doesn't mean definitively that addons have nothing to do with it but it does suggest it.

One thing that people in my guild swear is that if they run a tool like RDK they experience *less* lag. Their skills fire in fights and they can drink potions. Personally I don't really notice anything either way and I can't really theorize why that would be the case.