PVP rewards

Ramanadjinn

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Digerati wrote: »

I don't understand the against argument..

Something about the lore, Zenimax' "vision" for the game, PVE being the "core" of the game, and how this game isn't for PVP people.

Or you could just slap your keyboard with a boxing glove for a minute or two and get just as valid an argument against.

Either way.

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Looks like there is another POLL up about bringing back the repeatable kill quest.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87284/make-the-kill-20-quest-repeatable-again

Ghenra

I want Gold and Experience

ZOS should add the possibility to level up VR killing players and doing special quests for veterans (really hard to do) and getting gold and/or items.

Pretext

I don't want Experience, it's great now that quest is a daily.

The results show that players want as much as possible for as little effort as possible.

This has been the story of MMO gaming since it began. It has led to tiny zones, hubs, levelling to top level within a week...candy and yet more candy.

The result of this is easymode MMO's which run out of content after a week. Players declare they have nothing to do anymore and move to another game.

The harder something is the more meaningful achieving it is. Once we climbed Everest in MMOs, now we are panting when walking up a slope.

Ramanadjinn

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Pretext wrote: »

The results show that players want as much as possible for as little effort as possible.

This has been the story of MMO gaming since it began. It has led to tiny zones, hubs, levelling to top level within a week...candy and yet more candy.

The result of this is easymode MMO's which run out of content after a week. Players declare they have nothing to do anymore and move to another game.

The harder something is the more meaningful achieving it is. Once we climbed Everest in MMOs, now we are panting when walking up a slope.

The results of this do not show "that players want as much as possible for as little effort as possible." That is just a fact of life. We didn't need a poll to know this, and the heart of this argument has more to do with enjoyment and less to do with difficulty.

The easy way to level up in this game is grinding mobs running circles in PVE. Nobody is requesting an easier route to VR10 than that.

What i'd like to hear is an actual reason why the game would be made worse by allowing XP in PVP rather than better. A counter to the arguments made within the thread would be awesome.

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Pretext wrote: »

The results show that players want as much as possible for as little effort as possible.

This has been the story of MMO gaming since it began. It has led to tiny zones, hubs, levelling to top level within a week...candy and yet more candy.

The result of this is easymode MMO's which run out of content after a week. Players declare they have nothing to do anymore and move to another game.

The harder something is the more meaningful achieving it is. Once we climbed Everest in MMOs, now we are panting when walking up a slope.

Not sure what results you're looking at.

But Results ACTUALLY show that people got to level 50 in 17 hours via PVE.
The Votes on the other hand, show that people are interested in getting a real reward for the time spent.

Your stories are not consistent with real gamers and ESO, we have already seen people PVE to max level in much less time than people can get to level 25 in Cyradiil, and that was with the Repeatable Kill Quest.

Not sure what content you talk about, but it's PVP.. i think you are getting PVE and PVP mixed up.
Also it's a game, a place of fun, with progression at its backbone, clearly seen with a level system and gear itemization, and people see the the lack of it in Cyradiil, the fact you cannot shows everyone in this thread that you are a PVE person and possibly PVP once a day to complete the daily, and then you go back to PVE.

beravinprb19_ESO

I want Gold and Experience

Well, it really depends on your point of view. You say that players want as much as possible for as little effort as possible. To some extent, I agree with that. However, this is less about reward versus effort, and more about PvPers feeling like second class citizens.

Digerati

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Pretext wrote: »

The results show that players want as much as possible for as little effort as possible.

This has been the story of MMO gaming since it began. It has led to tiny zones, hubs, levelling to top level within a week...candy and yet more candy.

The result of this is easymode MMO's which run out of content after a week. Players declare they have nothing to do anymore and move to another game.

The harder something is the more meaningful achieving it is. Once we climbed Everest in MMOs, now we are panting when walking up a slope.

Somehow, you've equated wanting to see meaningful character development while being in constant competition with other players who are vastly more powerful than you are with wanting an easy ride...

Well, I guess that's true.. As it's harder to keep yourself moving on the seemingly endless quest-treadmill than it is to have PvP-fun the whole time..

(don't get me wrong.. PvE and questing in ESO is fantastic, it's just exhausting that that's all there is to do for character progression.)

Cydone

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Digerati wrote: »

Pretext wrote: »

The results show that players want as much as possible for as little effort as possible.

This has been the story of MMO gaming since it began. It has led to tiny zones, hubs, levelling to top level within a week...candy and yet more candy.

The result of this is easymode MMO's which run out of content after a week. Players declare they have nothing to do anymore and move to another game.

The harder something is the more meaningful achieving it is. Once we climbed Everest in MMOs, now we are panting when walking up a slope.

Somehow, you've equated wanting to see meaningful character development while being in constant competition with other players who are vastly more powerful than you are with wanting an easy ride...

Well, I guess that's true.. As it's harder to keep yourself moving on the seemingly endless quest-treadmill than it is to have PvP-fun the whole time..

(don't get me wrong.. PvE and questing in ESO is fantastic, it's just exhausting that that's all there is to do for character progression.)

THIS!

Pyatra

This poll is trash, there isn't a "fine as is" option, only option is "Fine as is and I have to agree to the OP's cry fest". There are plenty of quests in Cyrodiil go find them and stopped posting severely tinted polls. This poll can't even be taken seriously because of the options presented.

Cydone

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Pyatra wrote: »

This poll is trash, there isn't a "fine as is" option, only option is "Fine as is and I have to agree to the OP's cry fest". There are plenty of quests in Cyrodiil go find them and stopped posting severely tinted polls. This poll can't even be taken seriously because of the options presented.

I lol'd. Nowhere near as abundant and rewarding(xp/gold/gear) as they are in PvE.

Digerati

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Pyatra wrote: »

This poll is trash, there isn't a "fine as is" option, only option is "Fine as is and I have to agree to the OP's cry fest". There are plenty of quests in Cyrodiil go find them and stopped posting severely tinted polls. This poll can't even be taken seriously because of the options presented.

Your solution for PvP not being a viable alternative to questing is to quest in Cyrodiil?

Ramanadjinn

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Digerati wrote: »

Pyatra wrote: »

There are plenty of quests in Cyrodiil go find them and stopped posting severely tinted polls.

Your solution for PvP not being a viable alternative to questing is to quest in Cyrodiil?

Anyone who says to go quest in Cyrodiil for levels has obviously never tried it.

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Pyatra wrote: »

This poll is trash, there isn't a "fine as is" option, only option is "Fine as is and I have to agree to the OP's cry fest". There are plenty of quests in Cyrodiil go find them and stopped posting severely tinted polls. This poll can't even be taken seriously because of the options presented.

Im glad you couldn't find the option you were looking for.
Perhaps the option you seek doesn't exist, like the ability to level up via Cyradiil.

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Well it looks like Cyradiil won't be getting much Love come Craglorn.
Some bug fixes and Vet EXP changes.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/87867/patch-notes-v-1-1-inc-craglorn-from-pts/p1

Alliance War
General
The new Battle Level option in the gameplay settings menu allows you to choose whether you want your stats to be automatically adjusted in Cyrodiil or if you’d prefer to use the raw values of your stats.
Note: This option can only be toggled outside of Cyrodiil and its caves.
Stats that you receive through battle level bolstering in Cyrodiil and its delves have been increased.
The threshold for triggering overcharge on stats has been increased in Cyrodiil.
NPC enemies in caves and overland in Cyrodiil have been adjusted to Veteran Rank five difficulty.
Known Issue: Siege weapons are currently stackable in your inventory, but this will be reverted back to stacks of one in a future patch.

This atleast is something.

Veteran Rank Updates
You can earn up to Veteran Rank 12 as you continue your adventures in Craglorn. Additionally, the veteran XP earned from killing enemies has more than doubled.

Alliance War Changes
A new population underdog bonus has been added. When your alliance is outnumbered in a campaign (determined over several days of population samples), it will receive a bonus to potential scoring and alliance points. You’ll see an indication of this bonus in the scoring UI if it is active.
The XP awarded for killing enemy player characters has been doubled.
XP rewards for completing the quest to kill 20 enemy player characters have also been increased.

It's still not hitting the "this is a subscription game" enjoyment level mark imo.

Ramanadjinn

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

awkwarrd wrote: »

The XP awarded for killing enemy player characters has been doubled.

doubled?

I'm not sure they know how math works.

it is a well known property of zero that once it is multiplied by any number, including 2, the result will still be zero.

Honn

I personally think the PVP is lacking incentive for taking keeps. The only people with incentive to do so (long term) are those closest to the top of the leaderboard. For the rest, its basically lacking.
I think there should be some sort of Guild incentive to taking & holding a keep. Where are the crafting stations in owned keeps?
Where are the specialized merchants (food stuffs or short term buffs)?

I would also suggest that Veteran Ranks in Cyrodil gain more XP, as Im sure many people do not want to play through the other factions on one character, which is essentially needed to gain Rank10 to play Craiglorn.

In all...something seems to be missing from Cyrodil that provides incentive to the player/ guild, and I dont mean arenas or specialized & OP PVP gear.

LadyChaos

Honn wrote: »

I personally think the PVP is lacking incentive for taking keeps. The only people with incentive to do so (long term) are those closest to the top of the leaderboard. For the rest, its basically lacking.
I think there should be some sort of Guild incentive to taking & holding a keep. Where are the crafting stations in owned keeps?
Where are the specialized merchants (food stuffs or short term buffs)?

I would also suggest that Veteran Ranks in Cyrodil gain more XP, as Im sure many people do not want to play through the other factions on one character, which is essentially needed to gain Rank10 to play Craiglorn.

In all...something seems to be missing from Cyrodil that provides incentive to the player/ guild, and I dont mean arenas or specialized & OP PVP gear.

I do like the idea of guild owned keeps having more amenities based on guild levels. Like a 500 player guild having a banker and pvp gear vender option maybe? Perhaps something that is not immediate as soon as they claim but that the longer its held the more options open up based on the guilds overall level?

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Ramanadjinn wrote: »

doubled?

I'm not sure they know how math works.

it is a well known property of zero that once it is multiplied by any number, including 2, the result will still be zero.

Pretty much.
But this is PTS, and it was leaked early, well it's not that far away.
And this post to explain..

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please remember that these notes are specifically for the PTS, and are not the same notes you'll see on the live server. It's very likely that items will be edited and/or added in between the time it's being tested on the PTS, and when it will be available for everyone to play.

So we can assume that, half of it probably won't even make it into the Patch, and with this kind of large patch, there is going to be bugs.

So Cyradiil won't receive any special treatment other than nerfs if a bug is found.

Cydone

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

awkwarrd wrote: »

Ramanadjinn wrote: »

doubled?

I'm not sure they know how math works.

it is a well known property of zero that once it is multiplied by any number, including 2, the result will still be zero.

Pretty much.
But this is PTS, and it was leaked early, well it's not that far away.
And this post to explain..

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, please remember that these notes are specifically for the PTS, and are not the same notes you'll see on the live server. It's very likely that items will be edited and/or added in between the time it's being tested on the PTS, and when it will be available for everyone to play.

So we can assume that, half of it probably won't even make it into the Patch, and with this kind of large patch, there is going to be bugs.

So Cyradiil won't receive any special treatment other than nerfs if a bug is found.

This.

And that's also why I have unsubbed from the game. I refuse to fall into the same trap I did with SOE and SWG. Where the game had great potential, but with the myriad of bugs, glitches and lag, I could no longer justify paying for it in the hopes it would be fixed......I I paid $15 a mo for almost 7.5 yrs with the hope they would fix it.....just because I loved the game that damn much lol. Well, they didn't fix those things until like a month before the game closed, so will never do that again.

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Cydone wrote: »

This.

And that's also why I have unsubbed from the game. I refuse to fall into the same trap I did with SOE and SWG. Where the game had great potential, but with the myriad of bugs, glitches and lag, I could no longer justify paying for it in the hopes it would be fixed......I I paid $15 a mo for almost 7.5 yrs with the hope they would fix it.....just because I loved the game that damn much lol. Well, they didn't fix those things until like a month before the game closed, so will never do that again.

You could just say 7 years still an awfully long time for bug fixes.

With the GM's seen stalking the lands BOT hunting, my hope and faith is still there, i can't see ZOS in the robot money making light when they now have people actively patrolling looking for bots.
Which is something i asked for from day 1 of the bot posts.
Almost 3 weeks and it came to be, so that's something, i still don't like the loot timer, too GW2 for me.

Bugs are getting fixed, every patch notes there is a bunch of quests that were fixed, and main quests fixed, it's all mostly PVE stuff, but i still have hope that once they finally get them all ironed out, Cyradiil will get some attention.

PVP wise though, there are still some issues.
Even if we ignore the lack of EXP, you can see that low level players don't have access to the "Grand Soul Gems" without buying them with gold, which is a money sink, and a gated currency from a PVP perspective, because the gold gain is also very low.
I would have thought AP would be used for more than just Siege and RNG item bags.

The tower EXP gains, and the effects of capturing one is minimal, it just flips and bing.. it's yours, you can barely tell if it's happened yet or not, only way to tell is when the guards spawn and if it finally displays in the map.

The exp from killing players, seems to be the focus, even in the PTS patch notes they focus on it, so zerg mentality as the basic primal system right off the bat, but does leave room for the strategy side of it, because the split EXP for groups is more when in a smaller group, i just don't think the exp split for groups is rewarding enough, but only by a small margin.

The NPC level increase to vetrank5, i have no idea about this, but i can assume low level players are going to take one to the knee.

Im not un-subbing just yet, im keen to see craglorn and how it runs, im curious about the vet12 level aswell and see what happens, and i really wanna give the increase exp gains in Cyradiil a try before i make up my mind, it could be bad or worse, or it could be great, i don't know at this point, so i wanna give it try.
You may see me in 7years complaining about being strung along.

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Well.. looks like PVP is going to take a nose dive..
Forget the lack of EXP in PVP..

The word out there atm is that AOE caps are going to affect all skills, not just the specific ones mentioned.

Apparently in the PTS, all AOE skills are capped to 6 targets atm.
Including Healing abilities.

Half of a few of my guilds just un-subbed today, or so the people say.
Majority of these people are vr10.

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Here's a link that describes the AOE caps a bit better than the Patch Notes.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/04/eso-target-caps/

warkaiser

I want Gold and Experience

awkwarrd wrote: »

Here's a link that describes the AOE caps a bit better than the Patch Notes.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/04/eso-target-caps/

Hrmmmm. Not a good sign. Sounds just like what they did with WAR, which was a really dumb idea and turned a lot of people off. There was an issue with Bright Wizard / Sorc AoE bomb squads just destroying everything in PvP due to extremely high unlimited AoE potential. Rather than looking at the individual skills & mechanics of the class and tweaking them, they nerfed EVERY AoE in the game, even for classes that were already underpowered and had like 10% of the AoE capabilities of a BW/Sorc.

They REALLY need to analyze individual skills and adjust them appropriately, wether it be adjustments to the damage, to buffs gained from them, or just to raising the Magicka / Stamina costs of them reducing the number of times they can be used quickly. Blanket nerfs to everything because a few select builds / skills being an issue is definitely not the route to go.

Cheatingdeath23

I want Gold and Experience

I'm confused... why is limiting to 6 that big of a deal?

Do you think AOE should be able to affect an unlimited number of people?

My problem would be WHO it targets (especially for healing), as it might ignore your groupmate needing healing or the enemy who you want to kill the most.

But I don't think limiting AOE to 6 (or 10, for a compromise number) really ruins the game. In fact, I think it prevents a select few of VR10 from completely killing 20+ boosted players with only AOE, which to me is a good thing.

awkwarrd

I want Gold and Experience

Cheatingdeath23 wrote: »

I'm confused... why is limiting to 6 that big of a deal?

Do you think AOE should be able to affect an unlimited number of people?

My problem would be WHO it targets (especially for healing), as it might ignore your groupmate needing healing or the enemy who you want to kill the most.

But I don't think limiting AOE to 6 (or 10, for a compromise number) really ruins the game. In fact, I think it prevents a select few of VR10 from completely killing 20+ boosted players with only AOE, which to me is a good thing.

The link i posted above really says it best. (tamrielfoundry)
I urge you to go read it.

Kingslayer

I want Gold and Experience

The pvp in this game is blown to hell and zeni will realise it when its to late as they announce its f2p transition.

Digerati

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

I know they're saying they're going to double XP (although, 0*2=0) in the next big patch but I think they should hotfix it in...

Ramanadjinn

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Digerati wrote: »

I know they're saying they're going to double XP (although, 0*2=0) in the next big patch but I think they should hotfix it in...

Why not just pretend they already did?
You get zero either way right?

Digerati

I want Experience, so i don't have to go PVE to level up.

Ramanadjinn wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

I know they're saying they're going to double XP (although, 0*2=0) in the next big patch but I think they should hotfix it in...

Why not just pretend they already did?
You get zero either way right?

thank you for the suggestion. I'm going to try it.