Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Druid40

Has anyone actually tested the change yet?

Arunei

Gilvoth wrote: »

thats not what was said.

I also don't get involved in these types of discussions much because I don't PvP much at all, but even I can clearly see you have some unhealthy vendetta against Magsorcs. You try to claim you're not saying only Magsorcs are complaining but literally all or just about all of your posts specifically single out Magsorcs as the only ones who have a problem with this. So tell us again "that's not what was said" because it's certainly what you've been saying. If you can't see how far-reaching beyond Magsorcs this is then you really need to take off those blinders, friend. This affects every Mag build, it affects everyone who uses ults, it affects even the Stam chars who might rely on certain Mag skills (though it affects them a WHOLE lot less).

@WatchYourSixx
Dude you keep saying Mag chars can run and dodge and break free, but tell me, how long can a Mag char dodge roll before low Stam (you know, the resource they aren't specced into?) and roll fatigue prevent them from rolling? How far do you think anyone can 'run' when a NB can easily catch up to them or use a gap closer to catch up and lay damage on them? How much mitigation do you think blocking is going to do, especially since blocking takes a good chunk of Stam for every blow you get hit with? And then you seem to be willfully ignoring the fact that even if a Mag char does somehow manage to block/dodge/run long enough to survive three seconds of being able to do next to nothing, they won't have the Stam left to break free of whatever CC the NB hits them with after the Silence ends, which is another few seconds of not being able to do anything.

You also keep mentioning HOTs. What person just randomly keeps HOTs running on themselves at all times? And are you actually trying to say a HOT can outheal the burst damage that a NB will be able to hit you with even if a person keeps their heals up all the time? I'm sorry but I think anyone can agree if a NB's damage is outhealed by a HOT then that NB probably has a crappy build and/or isn't very skilled at the game yet.

Sanguinor2

Arunei wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

thats not what was said.

I also don't get involved in these types of discussions much because I don't PvP much at all, but even I can clearly see you have some unhealthy vendetta against Magsorcs. You try to claim you're not saying only Magsorcs are complaining but literally all or just about all of your posts specifically single out Magsorcs as the only ones who have a problem with this. So tell us again "that's not what was said" because it's certainly what you've been saying. If you can't see how far-reaching beyond Magsorcs this is then you really need to take off those blinders, friend. This affects every Mag build, it affects everyone who uses ults, it affects even the Stam chars who might rely on certain Mag skills (though it affects them a WHOLE lot less).

@WatchYourSixx
Dude you keep saying Mag chars can run and dodge and break free, but tell me, how long can a Mag char dodge roll before low Stam (you know, the resource they aren't specced into?) and roll fatigue prevent them from rolling? How far do you think anyone can 'run' when a NB can easily catch up to them or use a gap closer to catch up and lay damage on them? How much mitigation do you think blocking is going to do, especially since blocking takes a good chunk of Stam for every blow you get hit with? And then you seem to be willfully ignoring the fact that even if a Mag char does somehow manage to block/dodge/run long enough to survive three seconds of being able to do next to nothing, they won't have the Stam left to break free of whatever CC the NB hits them with after the Silence ends, which is another few seconds of not being able to do anything.

You also keep mentioning HOTs. What person just randomly keeps HOTs running on themselves at all times? And are you actually trying to say a HOT can outheal the burst damage that a NB will be able to hit you with even if a person keeps their heals up all the time? I'm sorry but I think anyone can agree if a NB's damage is outhealed by a HOT then that NB probably has a crappy build and/or isn't very skilled at the game yet.

You cant argue with these guys. They are convinced that sorcerers are the root of all evil and that anything that brings sorcs down is fair game no matter the consequences for everyone else. They are also convinced that it is no problem to run 20k+ stamina on a no cp mag build and that precasting resto ult or barrier each time you suspect there might be a nightblade nearby is all the counterplay one needs.

Arunei

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

You cant argue with these guys. They are convinced that sorcerers are the root of all evil and that anything that brings sorcs down is fair game no matter the consequences for everyone else. They are also convinced that it is no problem to run 20k+ stamina on a no cp mag build and that precasting resto ult or barrier each time you suspect there might be a nightblade nearby is all the counterplay one needs.

Yup because obviously Mutagen is gonna protect you against a NB's burst damage, especially considering the damage boost they get, yup. /s

I don't understand that logic at all man. I have a Stamblade Khajiit who would love this change if it went live, but even I can see this is way too strong. The only NBs who are trying to defend it have to be the ones who are bad otherwise, or just want an easy 'I win' button so they don't have to actually work for kills in Cyro. I can understand people maybe not getting the full implication of just how broken this is at first because I didn't either. Three seconds doesn't seem that long until you actually sit there and count it out, then tack on additional time from getting CCd after the Silence ends but you can't break free because all your Stam is gone.

In the end though you're probably right, because we're on page 25 now and certain people have been trying their hardest to downplay how bad a change this is for most of the playerbase, not just Magsorcs. They seem not to realize that if they get hit with it, they can't use their ults or Mag-based buffs/heals. But then again they won't need to because a Stam char can easily dodge roll for three seconds, still have Stam left to break any CC they get hit with, and then heal and still have resources to work at fighting back or trying to flee.

Sanguinor2

Arunei wrote: »

Yup because obviously Mutagen is gonna protect you against a NB's burst damage, especially considering the damage boost they get, yup. /s

I don't understand that logic at all man. I have a Stamblade Khajiit who would love this change if it went live, but even I can see this is way too strong. The only NBs who are trying to defend it have to be the ones who are bad otherwise, or just want an easy 'I win' button so they don't have to actually work for kills in Cyro. I can understand people maybe not getting the full implication of just how broken this is at first because I didn't either. Three seconds doesn't seem that long until you actually sit there and count it out, then tack on additional time from getting CCd after the Silence ends but you can't break free because all your Stam is gone.

In the end though you're probably right, because we're on page 25 now and certain people have been trying their hardest to downplay how bad a change this is for most of the playerbase, not just Magsorcs. They seem not to realize that if they get hit with it, they can't use their ults or Mag-based buffs/heals. But then again they won't need to because a Stam char can easily dodge roll for three seconds, still have Stam left to break any CC they get hit with, and then heal and still have resources to work at fighting back or trying to flee.

The sad thing about this is that I am very sure that most people that defend this change actually know the impact it will have. They simply must´ve had some very traumatizing experiences at the hands of a magsorc so they dont care how their goal of being able to win against their evil arch nemesis is achieved and whatever gets sacrificed to do so as long as they can finally end the reign of terror of the evil mag sorcs.

marius_buys

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

I basically die instantly to a NB 3 shot combo and I am a magica char... at least send some vaseline!

Hexys

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Are there any updates?

Miswar

Hexys wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Are there any updates?

Yes! It is called ironically "Silence" ...

Rhaegar75

Miswar wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Are there any updates?

Yes! It is called ironically "Silence" ...

They should have clarify the title of the ability "silence of the lambs" and add a picture of Hannibal Lecter (NBs) with a long list of his hopeless victims

Sord

Instead of Major Defile or Silence, give Incap Minor Defile. Easy fix! LOL

Juhasow

Sord wrote: »

Instead of Major Defile or Silence, give Incap Minor Defile. Easy fix! LOL

That would be actually a buff since You would be able to run heavy armor stamblade with s&b slot reverb and have easy acces to both major and minor defile causing easy 45-60% heal reduction on enemies.

Universe

Hexys wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Are there any updates?

We can expect the "update" to occur in next week PTS patch.

hakan

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

I REALLY hope this is a real thing, so I can watch all the magsorcs have a complete and total meltdown over finally being killable.

Said every badblade on the forums

Good thing I don't play a NB, I just watch people's reactions. And what I am seeing now is:

More like nightblades look at patch notes and see minor berserk removal, minor endurance loss, major fracture loss on surprise attack.
Meanwhile the very same nightblades look at patch notes and dont see: minor vulnerability, reave, free major fracture with a 20+ seconds duration, best snare removal in the game, highest class mitigation in the game.

Edit: After seeing the double take change I went to the build editor to make a heavy armor stamblade build, keep in mind that I am a magplar/magdk main. Wanna know the results?
Over 6k weapon damage.
Capped resistances.
Best snare removal in the game.
Major evasion, minor protection, minor maim, a unique 15% less damage taken buff.
Multiple hots.
Best pure healing ultimate in the game.
Mobility.
Bleeds.
Defile.
AoE damage.
(forgot to add: those stats are in no cp so its gonna be even more ridicilous in cp enabled pvp)
And stamblade mains actually think they got nerfed with elsweyr? Really??????

usual stats for any class wow! Clap

highnds

Cortimi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

I REALLY hope this is a real thing, so I can watch all the magsorcs have a complete and total meltdown over finally being killable.

Said every badblade on the forums

Good thing I don't play a NB, I just watch people's reactions. And what I am seeing now is:

THIS. IS. AMAZINGLY. TRUE.

Tommy_The_Gun

Cortimi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

I REALLY hope this is a real thing, so I can watch all the magsorcs have a complete and total meltdown over finally being killable.

Said every badblade on the forums

Good thing I don't play a NB, I just watch people's reactions. And what I am seeing now is:

Yes ! I is super Ironic isn't it ? Ppl cried SO MUCH for NB nerfs and Zenimax is like... ok... here are the nerfs (first PTS Rounds).

And now Zneimax is like: We are nerfing Incap, removing a lot of utility this ult had, but we dont want to make it cheaper to compensate for that so we have to add something... any ides... ? *silence* *silence* *silence* ....

- That is a great Idea ! !

So it was worth crying, it worked so well ! lol

Note:
I do think that silence is a very bad change and it most likely wont go live. But it is still hilarious that ppl wanted nerfs way to much to the point where It was off the chart and the counter has turned / reseted to 0

Sanguinor2

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Yes ! I is super Ironic isn't it ? Ppl cried SO MUCH for NB nerfs and Zenimax is like... ok... here are the nerfs (first PTS Rounds).
And now Zneimax is like: We are nerfing Incap, removing a lot of utility this ult had, but we dont want to make it cheaper to compensate for that so we have to add something... any ides... ? *silence* *silence* *silence* ....
- That is a great Idea ! !
So it was worth crying, it worked so well ! lol
Note:
I do think that silence is a very bad change and it most likely wont go live. But it is still hilarious that ppl wanted nerfs way to much to the point where It was off the chart and the counter has turned / reseted to 0

Wanna know something that is even more ironic and hilarious? Stamblades actually believing that they got completely destroyed with elsweyr changes.

They lost fracture from SA but still have it in their toolkit or can do what stamsorc and stamplar have been doing since their very inception, get the debuff from somewhere outside of class abilites or deal with it.

They lost minor berserk which got compensated with the addition of minor vulnerability and they can still use outside sources for it like every stam class besides stamden has done since their very inception if they wanted to have it.

They also got an added heal to the bow proc, which admittedly isnt of that much use since the spectral bow is still easily dodged but is a buff regardless.

They lost minor endurance which got compensated for with reave AND a 15% damage reduction so essentially twice as much as minor protection!

They got a magicka shuffle clone which is better than the actual shuffle, gives the longest snare immunity in the game, enables them to run rally even in a heavy armor build, still gives major evasion and is not restricted to armor choice.

Fear now silences 3 times as many targets as it did before while remaining unblockable and undodgeable.

They reduced the travel time of the spectral bow (said minimum travel time was completely stupid if you ask me so there is that, its a buff regardless)

Incap was changed from overloaded ultimate to an "I win" button against half the PvP playerbase.

So how exactly was stamblade nerfed to oblivion and completely destroyed in PvP come elsweyr? Because I dont really see it if you look at what got changed and how it got compensated for/how said buffs or debuffs are still avaiable in the class toolkit.
@Tommy_The_Gun

frostz417

Here’s my prediction of how zos will fix this issue.
1. Nerf silence so basically accidentally nerfing the hell out of negate which just buffs Zergs further, and making stamsorc even more useless because zos doesn’t play their game.
2. Giving incap a cast time and shafting the ability entirely
3. Reverting it(unlikely)
4. Giving silence only 1 second.
What do y’all think?

DisgracefulMind

ErMurazor wrote: »

This is a good change for incap. Magicka have dominated PvP for ages. This balance things out.

LMAO okay

darkblue5

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

This is a good change for incap. Magicka have dominated PvP for ages. This balance things out.

LMAO okay

That's why it has always been called Elder Staves Online . Really don't want a Silence Incap *with counterplay* because it'll be really bad and basically cost almost twice as much for no benefit until lag screws some magicka player over. I've typed this ou repeatedly but there's no way stamblades get a slottable Incap because Incap has to be very overtuned to beat out DBoS which is pretty overtuned.

master_vanargand

Cortimi wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

I REALLY hope this is a real thing, so I can watch all the magsorcs have a complete and total meltdown over finally being killable.

Said every badblade on the forums

Good thing I don't play a NB, I just watch people's reactions. And what I am seeing now is:

Those who wanted unhappy of NB became unhappy.
We got the lesson that we not want unhappy of others.

zyk

master_vanargand wrote: »

Those who wanted unhappy of NB became unhappy.
We got the lesson that we not want unhappy of others.

I've always felt schadenfreude drives most ZOS design decisions, one way or another. I guess the suffering of those who enjoy suffering is sweetest of all.

Strider__Roshin

Juhasow wrote: »

Sord wrote: »

Instead of Major Defile or Silence, give Incap Minor Defile. Easy fix! LOL

That would be actually a buff since You would be able to run heavy armor stamblade with s&b slot reverb and have easy acces to both major and minor defile causing easy 45-60% heal reduction on enemies.

Yes because the majority of Nightblades play this way -_-

thedude33

Tyvarra

Not every magsorc has a problem but every magicka class in light armor. I play a mag warden in pvp at the moment. Light armor. When a NB jumps me I'm half life, can break and start the defense, thats no problem. When a good NB jumps me I'm 10-20% life and already got problems not dying to an execute. Even if one reacts instandly and breaks the stun its sometimes just in time or you die anyway because of the debuffs that dont let you heal up. Breaking the stun takes less than one second and thats barely enough to survive a good NB. Not be able to do anything but roll dodge or block for 3 seconds (thats a *** long time...) will for sure kill any light armor character.

Only counterplay I see is to play heavy armor, impenetrable or change to a stamina character ( I suck playing stamina so I didnt do that much in 5 years). Maybe blocking with my ice staff works, need to test that.

To sum it up: dont implement a silence pls. Rest is great. But thats just over the top. You want to sell the necromancer not the nightblade.

katorga

Tyvarra wrote: »

Only counterplay I see is to play heavy armor, impenetrable or change to a stamina character ( I suck playing stamina so I didnt do that much in 5 years). Maybe blocking with my ice staff works, need to test that.

Hmm. Does silence prevent blocking with magicka/ice staff? Never thought about it.

Tyvarra

katorga wrote: »

Tyvarra wrote: »

Only counterplay I see is to play heavy armor, impenetrable or change to a stamina character ( I suck playing stamina so I didnt do that much in 5 years). Maybe blocking with my ice staff works, need to test that.

Hmm. Does silence prevent blocking with magicka/ice staff? Never thought about it.

I really dont know but it could work. Needs testing.

MrSinister213

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I think its a great idea. These PvPers don't buy enough crowns, time to milk them. We go extreme on the stamina side this patch, make everybody buy crowns to race change stam. Following patch we go extreme into magic. 200 IQ ZOS. 2019 going to be a good year for crown crate endgame.

Knowledge

If we put up our shields before we get incap we should be okay right? I don't think it is that bad.

Gnozo

Knowledge wrote: »

If we put up our shields before we get incap we should be okay right? I don't think it is that bad.

You do realize that there are magicka classes without shields right?

And No stamblade will use incap on an 100% health target or when shields are up (even tho 3s is enough to burn 20k shields).

Stamblades with a brain will put their targets to like 70% health, then use incap. Every mag char will be dead then and also some stam chars will struggle.

Incap at 70% health will bring your target to at least 50% health, then you have 3 seconds to freely damage him without anything He can do. He blocks? Damage him for the silenced duration anyway, then fear him. No stamina left to break free cause He burned everything for blocking.

Did they even tested this change? Who was testing this in a 1v1? And was like: ye, this is okay. Put it on PTS. Omg, please show me that guy.

zyk

This is from a Magicka build -- this character does more damage in a stam setup, of course. The target is a light armor magicka build that has played from launch.

Imagine taking that lead-in damage in 1 gcd followed by 3 seconds of silence and no CC immunity; so after that 3 seconds is up, you can be feared if necessary.