Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Gilvoth

the only time in history that i ever saw a nightblade uproar was when the sneak speeds we had were removed, that was i think 2014 / 2015, somewhere in there.
and it was IGNORED
they did the nerf and ignored our complaints about it.
but not sorc stuff, anything htey complain about is immediate changed, removed, nerfed, and made to fit their wants.

i dont use incap, i only used it for the knockdown, but since yet again that is removed i dont even use it anymore.
the increase in damage was usefull but even that was removed.

jaws343

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

I could show you countless mag sorc videos from a year ago where Rune Cage provided the opportunity to straight up murder people in a few seconds. 3 seconds is a long time, long time. Especially after you just ate a critted Incap from stealth. I feel like people are ignoring this part intentionally. If you take an 8-10 incap from stealth, you just lost a third of your health, and now you have zero chance of healing or using your primary defenses for 3 seconds. Good luck if an AOE ability is being used after the incap. Good luck if you are feared right as the 3 seconds runs out.

Sanguinor2

jaws343 wrote: »

I could show you countless mag sorc videos from a year ago where Rune Cage provided the opportunity to straight up murder people in a few seconds. 3 seconds is a long time, long time. Especially after you just ate a critted Incap from stealth. I feel like people are ignoring this part intentionally. If you take an 8-10 incap from stealth, you just lost a third of your health, and now you have zero chance of healing or using your primary defenses for 3 seconds. Good luck if an AOE ability is being used after the incap. Good luck if you are feared right as the 3 seconds runs out.

Thats your fault for not running 20k+ stamina on a mag build so you can chain dodgerolls for the whole silence duration and break free of the fear immidiately after tho. Also rune cage was mag sorc so absolutely broken while this is stamblade so its perfectly fine.(This is sarcasm in case anyone cannot tell)

TequilaFire

It is pointless to keep going back and forth about Incap till we see what they come up with.

Strider__Roshin

TequilaFire wrote: »

It is pointless to keep going back and forth about Incap till we see what they come up with.

Nah we need we least 15 more threads on it by tomorrow.

Elong

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVXvKq7Lf0

Insco851

Did they remove this yet? Shouldn’t take this long.

Tommy_The_Gun

Cortimi wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Btw. I get the impression that most of the mag based characters would want this single target ultimate ability to cost 500 ulti points and had a description "does nothing".

People are obviously not objective here. Remember when Sorcs had their rune cage undodgeable burst combo somwhere around Summerset ? Non of them was like "you know ZOS, you gave us this and it is slightly OP" - all of the were like:
"it is totally fine" (yes back then changes went to live server, despite the outrage. Here we have ppl who probably did not even tested it on PTS and already we have a DEV answer to the outrage).

So, if you were to be as much objective as possible (and not biased ofc) - what would you propose ? Immunity to silence after 3 seconds ? Or what ? Keep in mine that Incap is not a skill or spamable. It is a single target melee ultimate, that can be dodged or blocked.

They won't listen to you bro.

Because they are right (at lest some of them).

You see, When this incap changes were announced in PTS patch notes, I though that it is not a big deal. 3 seconds, so um yeah seems not that much. Especially if you have played in Cyro with 4 - 5 seconds lag. And the ppl reaction (At lest I assumed that) is simply panic overreaction.

Later I have analysed a lot of potential outcomes, scenarios, class vs class etc. You see, we already have a "silence" on negate. The biggest difference and what makes this incap silence OP/broken is that it is "stuck" on you for 3 seconds. If you are in a negate, you can simply walk / run / roll dodge out of it relatively fast, so you have like 1 - 1.5 seconds of silence. With "new" incap you can't because it is stuck on you for 3 seconds.

Now look. I play NB a lot. My main is a NB (Hybrid tank to be exact). I don't know a single NB who asked for this incap change. Even NB class reps probably did not see this coming.

People say that it affects magicka builds the most - and yes it is pretty much a death to them. What most people won't realize is this will affect stamina PvP builds too as they also use magicka costing utility skills (like cloak, fear, purge, buffs and also ULTS) Imagine for example on WW build being hit by this and not being able to press "oh sit button" to use WW ulti. Or for example not being able to use heal while in WW form. Or Dragon Leap on DK. Or whatever ult you have slotted.

Tbh. I dont really think that NB incap changes will go live as they are now. And also I do believe that this weird incap change in 5.0.3. simply overshadows all of the nerfs that NB will receive next update.

Dark cloak is gutted, Minor Berserk is gone, Surprise Attack losing Major Fracture, Cripple & Double Take losing Major Expedition buff. Sure, those might be small things, but those are still nerfs. And people already seem to forgot about that because of incap changes.

Sanguinor2

Elong wrote: »

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVXvKq7Lf0

Obviously doesnt count. Targets in that clip didnt block and precast hots and shields even tho there could be a stealthed nightblade anywhere in cyrodiil. (no Im not serious)

luizpaulom17

What the hell are they thinking??? Im done with PVP already ...

Malamar1229

Cortimi wrote: »

I REALLY hope this is a real thing, so I can watch all the magsorcs have a complete and total meltdown over finally being killable.

Said every badblade on the forums

Juhasow

Gilvoth wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Admit the mistake and delete this change. Simple.

it wasnt a mistake
they only gona change it because MASS complaints.
this happens every single time sorcerer gets touched in the SLIGHTEST.
allways has been, allways will be.

From what I remember they introduced minor mangle 1st to incap but due to the mass nightblades complaints they've changed it to silence. This also happened when they removed berserk from grim focus and added heal but due to nightblade complaints also added up to 15% dmg reduction. That also happened when ZoS removed fracture from supprise attack and changed it to 5% penetration debuff because they said mark already have fracture but due to nightblade complaints they made mark free to cast. ZoS is affaraid to nerf properly even 1 ability that stamblades are commonly using and they add even more usefull abilities like power extraction which can basically beat steel tornado in new update. One of the current combat team devs is well known for his fascination with nightblade class and stamblade in specific. Nightblade complaints during this PTS turned every nerf they recived into pseudo nerf or even buff so what is Your point again ?

no changes have ever been made to nightblade skills "due to nightblade complaints"
none.
the only times anything has ever changed due to complaints was the 1 second delay on shields.
then there was snipe
then there was sloads
then oblivion damage
then shield breaker set
this incap change revert will be number 6on that list, and only is happening from sorcerer complaints in mass.

only from sorc and because sorcerers dominate thick on this forum.

You're funny.

Gilvoth

Juhasow wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Admit the mistake and delete this change. Simple.

it wasnt a mistake
they only gona change it because MASS complaints.
this happens every single time sorcerer gets touched in the SLIGHTEST.
allways has been, allways will be.

From what I remember they introduced minor mangle 1st to incap but due to the mass nightblades complaints they've changed it to silence. This also happened when they removed berserk from grim focus and added heal but due to nightblade complaints also added up to 15% dmg reduction. That also happened when ZoS removed fracture from supprise attack and changed it to 5% penetration debuff because they said mark already have fracture but due to nightblade complaints they made mark free to cast. ZoS is affaraid to nerf properly even 1 ability that stamblades are commonly using and they add even more usefull abilities like power extraction which can basically beat steel tornado in new update. One of the current combat team devs is well known for his fascination with nightblade class and stamblade in specific. Nightblade complaints during this PTS turned every nerf they recived into pseudo nerf or even buff so what is Your point again ?

no changes have ever been made to nightblade skills "due to nightblade complaints"
none.
the only times anything has ever changed due to complaints was the 1 second delay on shields.
then there was snipe
then there was sloads
then oblivion damage
then shield breaker set
this incap change revert will be number 6on that list, and only is happening from sorcerer complaints in mass.

only from sorc and because sorcerers dominate thick on this forum.

You're funny.

wheres the joke?

i listed facts, and if you need i can add more to that list of things.

Iskiab

Berenhir wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

As a Magblade I would run it.

But I don't want anyone else running it lol.

So please make it something else...again.

^ this. I really don't wanna switch to stamblade, so probably using this new incap will be enough to counter-act anybody other then stamblades 2nd place is better then last, huh?

Berenhir wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

There is no counterplay. If you make silence breakable again, this is nothing but an ability that only "stuns" magicka chars with the opportunity of a follow up stun if not broken fast enough.

Incap is a high damage ult that increases all your damage against the target by 20%, gives crit for being slotted and is the cheapest ult in the game. What else does it need? If you want a gimmick, give something like a gimmick. Give minor lifesteal or whatever.

It cost after this will be 120, it's damage is not that big for 120 ult (hi, soul assault!) and so on. Only problem is silence is such a strong debuff and negates active defense.

Its cost remains the same, the additional effect is just at 120 ult.

But at 70 ult you will receive much weaker version of what is now on live. Weakest ult in the game basically. From where is info about "high damage"??? I saw a ton of incaps in recap, they were just slightly (20-25%) more powerful then surprise attacks. And only a 10-15% more powerful then *** frags or bow proc. Incap is powerful when it is part of burst.. .when it is just threw directly in your face by NB which struggles to survive your pressure, i.e. dodges/heals etc, you like "lol, dude just wasted ult".

Idk who you fight if you think incap is the weakest ult in the game. Incap regularly hits for anything between 7k and 12k on PvP builds. It has a 20% damage increase, and will be buffed with 10% from exploiter and 10% from follow up when casted at 70 ult on the defense as in your example.

Considering shalks hits for 5k, an ultimate for 7k isn’t much and I don’t think it hits me that hard.... I’d need a death recap to be able to tell.

Minno

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

I REALLY hope this is a real thing, so I can watch all the magsorcs have a complete and total meltdown over finally being killable.

Said every badblade on the forums

this whole drama has reminded me that my mid-tier casual templar butt outplays some of these forum-blades lol

Joy_Division

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

You don;t play much, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVXvKq7Lf0

Edit: LoL third response. Pelican is famous

Druid40

Maybe shorten it to 2 seconds or 1.5.

frostz417

Druid40 wrote: »

Maybe shorten it to 2 seconds or 1.5.

Hell no

Strider__Roshin

frostz417 wrote: »

Druid40 wrote: »

Maybe shorten it to 2 seconds or 1.5.

Hell no

Then it's settled, the duration shall be increased to 5 seconds

Katahdin

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

lol at this
I main stamblade and even I think this is too much

Remove silence
Just keep defile, remove the stun.

JumpmanLane

Murador178 wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

So stamblade now essentially has the best class Mitigation, huge burst, deletes magicka in a 1v1 by Pressing 1 button and the best snare removal ability in the game. In Addition they also got a Sustain buff, please ZOS I know Gilliam likes stamblade but this is a bad joke at best.

More like he likes tankblades...

More he likes BOWTARD tankblades. And next time he decides to Line of Sight around a tree, tell him not to do a full circle around it every single time. That’s why that WHIP was waiting for him lol.

Elong

Joy_Division wrote: »

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

You don;t play much, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVXvKq7Lf0

Edit: LoL third response. Pelican is famous

Haha. Clearly scripted though Joy, doesn't count XD /s

MartiniDaniels

Joy_Division wrote: »

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

You don;t play much, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVXvKq7Lf0

Edit: LoL third response. Pelican is famous

One question is why opponents are doing nothing to detect him? At least after first gank? He kills, cloaks and others are simply staying doing nothing and obviously this is extreme case of cool player on absolute glass cannon. It's not even glass, it's one way ticket without sustain, 16k HP and 10k resistances with balorgh, i.e. he just charges ulti, comes and kills 1 target, after that video is cut. How many times he was decimated when detected?
And every 2nd target is AFK.. lol. This video proves nothing.

Elong

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

You don;t play much, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVXvKq7Lf0

Edit: LoL third response. Pelican is famous

One question is why opponents are doing nothing to detect him? At least after first gank? He kills, cloaks and others are simply staying doing nothing and obviously this is extreme case of cool player on absolute glass cannon. It's not even glass, it's one way ticket without sustain, 16k HP and 10k resistances with balorgh, i.e. he just charges ulti, comes and kills 1 target, after that video is cut. How many times he was decimated when detected?
And every 2nd target is AFK.. lol. This video proves nothing.

It shows that if they did see him coming, with the way the new incap works, they would have 3 secs of not being able to do anything as a magicka player, and would die in that time.

Also another video, showing a player killing multiple players that aren't afk and not dying every second gank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Re6DjD2J4

Sanguinor2

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

One question is why opponents are doing nothing to detect him? At least after first gank? He kills, cloaks and others are simply staying doing nothing and obviously this is extreme case of cool player on absolute glass cannon. It's not even glass, it's one way ticket without sustain, 16k HP and 10k resistances with balorgh, i.e. he just charges ulti, comes and kills 1 target, after that video is cut. How many times he was decimated when detected?
And every 2nd target is AFK.. lol. This video proves nothing.

Actually it does prove exactly what the person this got responded to wanted to see: Someone under any circumstance dying in 3 seconds or less.

I do agree that this doesnt prove the capabilities the new incap can have since a gank is quite different from a potential extended fight that only gets a burst opener from stealth if that at all.

The closest thing you can do on live to simulate the new incap is to let a regular mag open world build fight inside a negate against a stamblade, be it gankblade, heavy bleedblade, or a medium armor stamblade that is build to fight for longer than a gank, while the mag build is not allowed to leave the negate under any circumstance for those 3 seconds, with dodging and blocking still allowed and the fight not instantly stopping after those 3 seconds being over and instead being continued without any pause. In addition to that the 3 seconds of not being able to leave negate can only start after the mag build has been hit by incap to simulate the 3 seconds silence duration. Potion may be used by the magbuild obviously. It also would have to be the healing morph of negate as to not add pressure that wouldnt be there in a 1v1 against a stambuild

This comparison already looks pretty bleak for the mag build to me if I am being honest.

If you have any ideas how one could make a more adequate comparison towards the new incap with abilities as they are on the live server to make more people understand the potential of the silence then I will gladly read those.

JumpmanLane

echo2omega wrote: »

So.

Nightblades have a hard counter to all magicka classes with no counter play...

And WINGS were op! This game is trash...

usmcjdking

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

You don;t play much, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVXvKq7Lf0

Edit: LoL third response. Pelican is famous

One question is why opponents are doing nothing to detect him? At least after first gank? He kills, cloaks and others are simply staying doing nothing and obviously this is extreme case of cool player on absolute glass cannon. It's not even glass, it's one way ticket without sustain, 16k HP and 10k resistances with balorgh, i.e. he just charges ulti, comes and kills 1 target, after that video is cut. How many times he was decimated when detected?
And every 2nd target is AFK.. lol. This video proves nothing.

Opponents die in 1 GCD.

MartinitDaniels: "WHY ARE THEY DOING NOTHING?"

Probably because they are dead friend.

ccmedaddy

Quick Q: can sorcs cast dark exchange while silenced?

MartiniDaniels

Elong wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Show me a clip where 3 seconds killed you that isn't lag or you failing to block/dodge an ability. Did you know you can block with even just 1 stam?

You don;t play much, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVXvKq7Lf0

Edit: LoL third response. Pelican is famous

One question is why opponents are doing nothing to detect him? At least after first gank? He kills, cloaks and others are simply staying doing nothing and obviously this is extreme case of cool player on absolute glass cannon. It's not even glass, it's one way ticket without sustain, 16k HP and 10k resistances with balorgh, i.e. he just charges ulti, comes and kills 1 target, after that video is cut. How many times he was decimated when detected?
And every 2nd target is AFK.. lol. This video proves nothing.

It shows that if they did see him coming, with the way the new incap works, they would have 3 secs of not being able to do anything as a magicka player, and would die in that time.

Also another video, showing a player killing multiple players that aren't afk and not dying every second gank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Re6DjD2J4

He ganks with onslaught, not with incap
This just proves that if you want to build glass cannon for ganking there are several options, and it is cloak broken, not incap. Though I don't argue that new incap will be broken, even for stamclasses silence after gank is bad.
Videos aside, yes sometimes you may met somebody like Pelikan who will "kill you in 3 seconds". But this works only 1 time, when you res and return you already will be aware and this won't repeat. And it's like 1 "Pelikan" in 10 hours, you can't use some top player as a reference. You may meet similar sorc or warden too, incap burst is not the only burst which may kill you in 3 seconds if you were caught off guard.

Druid40

Good gankers gonna gank good. 99.99997% of NBs are not 1-shotting or even 3-shotting properly geared or aware players in Cyrodiil.