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[IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
PROC SETS!!!!!!
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONE
I HATE PROC SETS
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Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you haven't L2P with them in the game at this point you are the one with the issue. If you're still trying to run around with the glass cannon build but not a ganker then you deserve to die. If you don't have enough health and mitigation to survive a burst then you deserve to die. They are here to stay and if you can't adjust your build to compensate then you deserve to die.
When I play, I try some good combos, for example, shield assault -> talons -> deep breath -> whip -> whip -> whip (while holding block) -> Dragon Leap (at the same time with inhale explosion). It's a beautiful playing style.
Nevertheless, I always get killed by the guy who uses poison with his bow heavy attack -> poison inject -> crit rush and light attack.
Yes, it is a L2P issue
You have just proven my point. You know exactly what is killing you and instead of adjusting to survive and win you wish to complain and have that which kills you changed. You chose not to learn from your deaths but continue along with some build that you probably copied from a website because if it is recommended on the internet it must be the best for you. So, like I said in my reply, "If you don't have enough health and mitigation to survive a burst then you deserve to die." You refuse to change, you refuse to learn, you have earned the L2P tag.
Now there's something...a proc build almost definitely running what he copied from some streamer boasting about how he's "learned to play" and criticizing players who are still trying to use actual skills to survive against his armor.
Yes, many people complain about what kills them, and what kills them is armor not the players wearing it.
You have definitely earned the proctato tag, well done.5 -
Zouni✭✭✭I am having fun with these proc sets but I would not miss them if they went away. My original kill armor/weapon set worked nicely in the past - proc free.Nyxtes - NB
Nyxta - Sorc
Mastrofonoss - DK
Gr Blue - Temp0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭proc sets can stay because i cant play without themIt's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONE
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?Edited by HoloYoitsu on 8 December 2016 22:381 -
Dk_needs_a_buff✭✭✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONEHoloYoitsu wrote: »
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?
All procs for magic and stamina are ruining pvp. They need to and will be nurfed0 -
PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONEProc sets are boring, they take 0 skill to use.
These sets were created to force people into dungeon farming. In that sense, proc sets are a success. Do you really believe that they cared about what kind of impact could they have in PvP?
I don't think that they can make a proper change.
I will stay around to see what kind of change ZOS have in mind, but if they dont nerf them hard I will just leave.
PD: I am not giving my stuff.
Ormesson Stamina NB 2H-Bow0 -
miahus✭✭- There is little to no deference in power from stamina to magicka builds
You said you have a mag and stam for each class, yet you make that statement! Please tell me how is there little to no difference between stamina and magicka nightblades. What is the magblade build that is little to no difference in power to stamblade? enlighten me please.
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Sheuib✭✭✭✭proc sets can stay because i cant play without themSandman929 wrote: »If you haven't L2P with them in the game at this point you are the one with the issue. If you're still trying to run around with the glass cannon build but not a ganker then you deserve to die. If you don't have enough health and mitigation to survive a burst then you deserve to die. They are here to stay and if you can't adjust your build to compensate then you deserve to die.
When I play, I try some good combos, for example, shield assault -> talons -> deep breath -> whip -> whip -> whip (while holding block) -> Dragon Leap (at the same time with inhale explosion). It's a beautiful playing style.
Nevertheless, I always get killed by the guy who uses poison with his bow heavy attack -> poison inject -> crit rush and light attack.
Yes, it is a L2P issue
You have just proven my point. You know exactly what is killing you and instead of adjusting to survive and win you wish to complain and have that which kills you changed. You chose not to learn from your deaths but continue along with some build that you probably copied from a website because if it is recommended on the internet it must be the best for you. So, like I said in my reply, "If you don't have enough health and mitigation to survive a burst then you deserve to die." You refuse to change, you refuse to learn, you have earned the L2P tag.
Now there's something...a proc build almost definitely running what he copied from some streamer boasting about how he's "learned to play" and criticizing players who are still trying to use actual skills to survive against his armor.
Yes, many people complain about what kills them, and what kills them is armor not the players wearing it.
You have definitely earned the proctato tag, well done.
All my builds I put together myself. I have never copied a build from some streamer or website. I only used two proc sets on any of my characters. One is Valkyn Skoria on my magicka templar which most people agree is one of the few balanced sets because it requires use of a dot ability to proc and the damage is not rediculous. The other is Maw of the infernal on my sorc pet build which is not OP by any means. I am probably doing less damage using that set but it is fun to use with a pet build.
I am sure most of the people that are complaining about proc sets instead of adjusting to survive are the same people that compained about every other thing in the game that has ever killed them. Radiant destruction is to strong and destroying PVP. Wrecking blow is to strong and destroying PVP. Negate is to strong and destroying PVP. Proxy Det is to strong and destroying PVP. etc. etc. etc. Basically, all the abilities that were used to kill people were complained about at some point and this is what we end up with and now everyone wants to complain about that as well. If it continues like this we will eventually be left with just light and heavy attacks, 10 HP for each person, and only bows and swords that do one point of damage. There we are finally balanced.0 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONEThey are planning on doing something with proc sets. What that is, nobody really knows. When that is, also nobody knows. We just have to live with it until then. Same with the destro ulti and broken as hell infernal guardian.
Exactly...
Want to bet if they mess it up big time? (like every bigger update so far?)
I really have a bad feeling when I hear that they "have an idea" and have to "test" something and things like that... >_<We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR0 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONEI PvP without proc sets with melee magblade. Yesterday an Nikel I was in the middle of the field just counting how many use velidreth. Blue and yellow clashes in an epic battle only surpassed by the final scene in Lord of the Rings.
The entire field was littered with those venomous blobs that come in 3-way. Also a lot of infernal guardian mortars where lobbed.
I wish I made screens. It will make the first appearance of jebusbeams make weak. Although those screens made it look like an SWTOR screenshot.٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."1 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »If you haven't L2P with them in the game at this point you are the one with the issue. If you're still trying to run around with the glass cannon build but not a ganker then you deserve to die. If you don't have enough health and mitigation to survive a burst then you deserve to die. They are here to stay and if you can't adjust your build to compensate then you deserve to die.
When I play, I try some good combos, for example, shield assault -> talons -> deep breath -> whip -> whip -> whip (while holding block) -> Dragon Leap (at the same time with inhale explosion). It's a beautiful playing style.
Nevertheless, I always get killed by the guy who uses poison with his bow heavy attack -> poison inject -> crit rush and light attack.
Yes, it is a L2P issue
You have just proven my point. You know exactly what is killing you and instead of adjusting to survive and win you wish to complain and have that which kills you changed. You chose not to learn from your deaths but continue along with some build that you probably copied from a website because if it is recommended on the internet it must be the best for you. So, like I said in my reply, "If you don't have enough health and mitigation to survive a burst then you deserve to die." You refuse to change, you refuse to learn, you have earned the L2P tag.
Now there's something...a proc build almost definitely running what he copied from some streamer boasting about how he's "learned to play" and criticizing players who are still trying to use actual skills to survive against his armor.
Yes, many people complain about what kills them, and what kills them is armor not the players wearing it.
You have definitely earned the proctato tag, well done.
All my builds I put together myself. I have never copied a build from some streamer or website. I only used two proc sets on any of my characters. One is Valkyn Skoria on my magicka templar which most people agree is one of the few balanced sets because it requires use of a dot ability to proc and the damage is not rediculous. The other is Maw of the infernal on my sorc pet build which is not OP by any means. I am probably doing less damage using that set but it is fun to use with a pet build.
I am sure most of the people that are complaining about proc sets instead of adjusting to survive are the same people that compained about every other thing in the game that has ever killed them. Radiant destruction is to strong and destroying PVP. Wrecking blow is to strong and destroying PVP. Negate is to strong and destroying PVP. Proxy Det is to strong and destroying PVP. etc. etc. etc. Basically, all the abilities that were used to kill people were complained about at some point and this is what we end up with and now everyone wants to complain about that as well. If it continues like this we will eventually be left with just light and heavy attacks, 10 HP for each person, and only bows and swords that do one point of damage. There we are finally balanced.
Well then that's admirable. One thing you might want to acknowledge though is that people complaining about these sets are also adjusting to their existence and not simply running old builds and whining that they don't work anymore. The forum serves as a place for feedback from gamers about the game. So this is where you'll find feedback.
Adjusting to game mechanics and calling out those mechanics when they are detrimental to skillful PvP aren't mutually exclusive and people can do both.1 -
Jim6270✭✭As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONEIf you haven't L2P with them in the game at this point you are the one with the issue. If you're still trying to run around with the glass cannon build but not a ganker then you deserve to die. If you don't have enough health and mitigation to survive a burst then you deserve to die. They are here to stay and if you can't adjust your build to compensate then you deserve to die.
When I play, I try some good combos, for example, shield assault -> talons -> deep breath -> whip -> whip -> whip (while holding block) -> Dragon Leap (at the same time with inhale explosion). It's a beautiful playing style.
Nevertheless, I always get killed by the guy who uses poison with his bow heavy attack -> poison inject -> crit rush and light attack.
Yes, it is a L2P issue
You have just proven my point. You know exactly what is killing you and instead of adjusting to survive and win you wish to complain and have that which kills you changed. You chose not to learn from your deaths but continue along with some build that you probably copied from a website because if it is recommended on the internet it must be the best for you. So, like I said in my reply, "If you don't have enough health and mitigation to survive a burst then you deserve to die." You refuse to change, you refuse to learn, you have earned the L2P tag.
I want to play a game in which I feel I'm good, not one in which I need to use cheap mechanics to feel I'm good, neither one in which I leave my skill to an anecdotic feature like RGN. That's pointless.
I've not copied any build from any website... everything I play is done by me, because I'm quite bad at copying others... I always tend to change something.
But you know what's funny? Take down those proc set users with pure skill.
On the other hand, can you play without proc sets or are too afraid to do things by yourself?
Edited by Xvorg on 9 December 2016 17:59Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONE
Except that proc sets providing free dps allow you to do exactly that? Put on Tremor/Viper/Blackrose and enjoy substantial tankiness while you gear does the work for you and you don't even have to learn to bash weave. Or are you saying that it's good that proctatos prevent skilled players from rising above the rest by virtue of their skill? In which case, I have some serious questions about your upbringing.As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ...
Avoiding multiproc burst has no element of 'skill' involved, all it is is RNG. Tell me why getting killed by procs as soon as you drop below full health is a 'good' thing?you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what ....so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
Everyone and their mother wasn't running around in heavy armor s/b until this patch when proc sets allowed them to do it while maintaining high dps burst. If proc sets are what it took to make you "more focused and alert" when people jumped you, then you weren't that good of a player before. Your entire argument that we need proc sets to "keep people on their toes" is complete unsubstantiated BS.This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
Oh, people have long since 'figured out how to work around it', they've switched to heavy armor proc set builds w/ 30k HP themselves. In your close-mindedness you're purposely ignoring the very concepts of balance and feedback. Gear that gives you insta kills as soon as people drop below full health is not balance. Neither are people pointing out how stupid it is 'whiners' that need to 'L2P'.In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
So tell me, which procs are you using and how excited are you to finally be able to get kills?3 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONE
Check this out. Even NPCs use proc sets now
Because I can!1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PROC SETS NEED TO BE SORTED. ZENIMAX FIX THIS SOON AND NOT IN A FEW MONTHS WHEN ALL THE DECENT PLAYERS HAVE GONEWhen I see a Proctato streamer thinking they're in fashion ...
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?
All procs for magic and stamina are ruining pvp. They need to and will be nurfed
@Dk_needs_a_buff I don't agree that all proc sets are ruining PvP. Before, not one ever complained about Skoria, Bloodspawn, Molag Kena or any other proc set used by itself. Stacking of proc sets is the issue. Viper by itself is still kinda OP because of the consistant proc chance, but you won't 1 shot anyone with it. Tremor by itself is OP I'll agree to that, especially the long lasting snare and the high proc chance, make it too easily abusable. Grothdarr isn't OP (but I did hear it was bugged in that it was over-proc'ing). Selene isn't OP cause of the balanced proc chance (but it is bugged). Velidreth is a tough one, it can be borderline OP in the right hands aka gankblade. Ilambris isn't OP. Infernal Guardian is bugged so no discussion needed. Skoria isn't OP. Red Mountain isn't OP. Widow isn't OP. Nerien'eth isn't OP. Sellistrix isn't OP. Stormfist isn't OP. Kra'gh isn't OP. Thunder bug isn't OP. Winterborn sucks. By themselves, most monster sets and proc sets are fine in terms of balance, although there are some obvious exceptions that are either easily abusable, bugged or simply just too strong. Those exceptions are the ones that need nerfing.
Now there are also some proc sets that are defensive or utility based, like Engine Guardian (isn't OP), Bloodspawn (isn't OP), Chokethorn (isn't OP), Shadowrend (is pretty crap, although Blobs makes pretty good use of it), Maw of the Infernal (crap), Bogdan Nightflame (crap), Lord Warden (isn't OP), Molag Kena (isn't OP), Scathing Mage (isn't OP), Spell Power Cure (isn't OP), Burning Spellweave (isn't OP), Ravager (isn't OP), Seventh Legion (very strong, but isn't OP cause the other set boni are just bad for the most part). There are some like Malubeth and Troll King especially that are really over the top and need nerfing.
Bottom line is, proc sets add RNG to a fight. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is that you gotta pay attention all the time and it makes the fights less monotonous (the animations for most of them are pretty damn sweet too). With such a variety of different sets each providing something different, it just adds so much "spice" to the game. The bad thing is that you can kill someone who you wouldn't have killed just because of a lucky proc. So in a situation where skill is prioritized, certain proc sets can simply be banned, for example in duels. In other situations, like in trials proc sets are fine. Since we are talking PvP, where we have gankers or unkillable tanks, proc sets are acceptable. I don't think that a complete removal of proc sets is a possible future, nor do I think that it would be good for the game.
The stacking of proc sets is the real problem. The root of that problem is that some sets are over performing like Viper, Tremor and Velidreth (in some cases) or others are bugged like Infernal Guardian (the new Magelight), Selene (double proc), etc. If ZOS can find a way to prevent exploitive stacking of proc sets and if they can balance/fix the ones mentioned above (among others I certainly must have missed) without making them useless, I think that PvP will be fine from the proc set perspective. There are still other problems like the Eye of the Storm morph which doesn't have any legit counters (aside from running away from a fight -_- and I doubt that ZOS wants to encourage fleeing) and some other abilities that are over the top, but that's a discussion for another day.
So yeah, that's my opinion on proc sets. Keep in mind, I don't use proc sets on my characters, so its not the reason I'm defending them (more like defending the concept of proc sets). I run a magicka sorcerer with 1 piece Ilambris and 1 piece Grothdarr. I also don't use the FotM proc sets on my stamina characters. I run a medium armor stamblade with 1 Kra'gh and 1 Velidreth, a stamina DK tank with Bloodspawn and a stamina sorcerer with Engine Guardian. Just saying that I'm not defending proc sets because I abuse them too like so many others. Nice day to you all.Edited by Izaki on 11 December 2016 04:08@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade3 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?
All procs for magic and stamina are ruining pvp. They need to and will be nurfed
I don't agree that all proc sets are running PvP. Before, not one ever complained about Skoria, Bloodspawn, Molag Kena or any other proc set used by itself. Stacking of proc sets is the issue. Viper by itself is still kinda OP because of the consistant proc chance, but you won't 1 shot anyone with it. Tremor by itself is OP I'll agree to that, especially the long lasting snare and the high proc chance, make it too easily abusable. Grothdarr isn't OP (but I did hear it was bugged in that it was over-proc'ing). Selene isn't OP cause of the balanced proc chance (but it is bugged). Velidreth is a tough one, it can be borderline OP in the right hands aka gankblade. Ilambris isn't OP. Infernal Guardian is bugged so no discussion needed. Skoria isn't OP. Red Mountain isn't OP. Widow isn't OP. Nerien'eth isn't OP. Sellistrix isn't OP. Stormfist isn't OP. Kra'gh isn't OP. Thunder bug isn't OP. Winterborn sucks. By themselves, most monster sets and proc sets are fine in terms of balance, although there are some obvious exceptions that are either easily abusable, bugged or simply just too strong. Those exceptions are the ones that need nerfing.
Now there are also some proc sets that are defensive or utility based, like Engine Guardian (isn't OP), Bloodspawn (isn't OP), Chokethorn (isn't OP), Shadowrend (is pretty crap, although Blobs makes pretty good use of it), Maw of the Infernal (crap), Bogdan Nightflame (crap), Lord Warden (isn't OP), Molag Kena (isn't OP), Scathing Mage (isn't OP), Spell Power Cure (isn't OP), Burning Spellweave (isn't OP), Ravager (isn't OP), Seventh Legion (very strong, but isn't OP cause the other set boni are just bad for the most part). There are some like Malubeth and Troll King especially that are really over the top and need nerfing.
Bottom line is, proc sets add RNG to a fight. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is that you gotta pay attention all the time and it makes the fights less monotonous (the animations for most of them are pretty damn sweet too). With such a variety of different sets each providing something different, it just adds so much "spice" to the game. The bad thing is that you can kill someone who you wouldn't have killed just because of a lucky proc. So in a situation where skill is prioritized, certain proc sets can simply be banned, for example in duels. In other situations, like in trials proc sets are fine. Since we are talking PvP, where we have gankers or unkillable tanks, proc sets are acceptable. I don't think that a complete removal of proc sets is a possible future, nor do I think that it would be good for the game.
The stacking of proc sets is the real problem. The root of that problem is that some sets are over performing like Viper, Tremor and Velidreth (in some cases) or others are bugged like Infernal Guardian (the new Magelight), Selene (double proc), etc. If ZOS can find a way to prevent exploitive stacking of proc sets and if they can balance/fix the ones mentioned above (among others I certainly must have missed) without making them useless, I think that PvP will be fine from the proc set perspective. There are still other problems like the Eye of the Storm morph which doesn't have any legit counters (aside from running away from a fight -_- and I doubt that ZOS wants to encourage fleeing) and some other abilities that are over the top, but that's a discussion for another day.
So yeah, that's my opinion on proc sets. Keep in mind, I don't use proc sets on my characters, so its not the reason I'm defending them (more like defending the concept of proc sets). I run a magicka sorcerer with 1 piece Ilambris and 1 piece Grothdarr. I also don't use the FotM proc sets on my stamina characters. I run a medium armor stamblade with 1 Kra'gh and 1 Velidreth, a stamina DK tank with Bloodspawn and a stamina sorcerer with Engine Guardian. Just saying that I'm not defending proc sets because I abuse them too like so many others. Nice day to you all.
Good post. I agree. Proc sets don't need a game-wide ban or mass deleting, just some adjustment to what's overperforming, and honestly I think they need to scale with stats to some degree to make the 3-proc-set builds less powerful since they end up weak on damage stats.PC/NA
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?
All procs for magic and stamina are ruining pvp. They need to and will be nurfed
I don't agree that all proc sets are running PvP. Before, not one ever complained about Skoria, Bloodspawn, Molag Kena or any other proc set used by itself. Stacking of proc sets is the issue. Viper by itself is still kinda OP because of the consistant proc chance, but you won't 1 shot anyone with it. Tremor by itself is OP I'll agree to that, especially the long lasting snare and the high proc chance, make it too easily abusable. Grothdarr isn't OP (but I did hear it was bugged in that it was over-proc'ing). Selene isn't OP cause of the balanced proc chance (but it is bugged). Velidreth is a tough one, it can be borderline OP in the right hands aka gankblade. Ilambris isn't OP. Infernal Guardian is bugged so no discussion needed. Skoria isn't OP. Red Mountain isn't OP. Widow isn't OP. Nerien'eth isn't OP. Sellistrix isn't OP. Stormfist isn't OP. Kra'gh isn't OP. Thunder bug isn't OP. Winterborn sucks. By themselves, most monster sets and proc sets are fine in terms of balance, although there are some obvious exceptions that are either easily abusable, bugged or simply just too strong. Those exceptions are the ones that need nerfing.
Now there are also some proc sets that are defensive or utility based, like Engine Guardian (isn't OP), Bloodspawn (isn't OP), Chokethorn (isn't OP), Shadowrend (is pretty crap, although Blobs makes pretty good use of it), Maw of the Infernal (crap), Bogdan Nightflame (crap), Lord Warden (isn't OP), Molag Kena (isn't OP), Scathing Mage (isn't OP), Spell Power Cure (isn't OP), Burning Spellweave (isn't OP), Ravager (isn't OP), Seventh Legion (very strong, but isn't OP cause the other set boni are just bad for the most part). There are some like Malubeth and Troll King especially that are really over the top and need nerfing.
Bottom line is, proc sets add RNG to a fight. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is that you gotta pay attention all the time and it makes the fights less monotonous (the animations for most of them are pretty damn sweet too). With such a variety of different sets each providing something different, it just adds so much "spice" to the game. The bad thing is that you can kill someone who you wouldn't have killed just because of a lucky proc. So in a situation where skill is prioritized, certain proc sets can simply be banned, for example in duels. In other situations, like in trials proc sets are fine. Since we are talking PvP, where we have gankers or unkillable tanks, proc sets are acceptable. I don't think that a complete removal of proc sets is a possible future, nor do I think that it would be good for the game.
The stacking of proc sets is the real problem. The root of that problem is that some sets are over performing like Viper, Tremor and Velidreth (in some cases) or others are bugged like Infernal Guardian (the new Magelight), Selene (double proc), etc. If ZOS can find a way to prevent exploitive stacking of proc sets and if they can balance/fix the ones mentioned above (among others I certainly must have missed) without making them useless, I think that PvP will be fine from the proc set perspective. There are still other problems like the Eye of the Storm morph which doesn't have any legit counters (aside from running away from a fight -_- and I doubt that ZOS wants to encourage fleeing) and some other abilities that are over the top, but that's a discussion for another day.
So yeah, that's my opinion on proc sets. Keep in mind, I don't use proc sets on my characters, so its not the reason I'm defending them (more like defending the concept of proc sets). I run a magicka sorcerer with 1 piece Ilambris and 1 piece Grothdarr. I also don't use the FotM proc sets on my stamina characters. I run a medium armor stamblade with 1 Kra'gh and 1 Velidreth, a stamina DK tank with Bloodspawn and a stamina sorcerer with Engine Guardian. Just saying that I'm not defending proc sets because I abuse them too like so many others. Nice day to you all.
Good post. I agree. Proc sets don't need a game-wide ban or mass deleting, just some adjustment to what's overperforming, and honestly I think they need to scale with stats to some degree to make the 3-proc-set builds less powerful since they end up weak on damage stats.
I agree with proc sets scaling with stats. Problem is that it will affect PvE heavily. Knowing that most PvE builds stack critical chance and critical damage, their stats might not be too optimal which in turn would make the sets weaker, which will in turn make us do less DPS and at that point we're going to have another civil war on these forums. So I think that we should just wait and see what ZOS come up with. I'm hoping for an overall cool down on damage sets only which would prevent effective stacking and relying on procs for doing all your damage. We'll see what ZOS come up with.@ Izaki #PCEU
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AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭Metemsycosis wrote: »Proc sets are must-have, especially for stamina characters, and this alone should be a red flag they are too powerful. But for now I notice they level the playing field between newer players and experienced players (ie proc sets give them a legitimate fighting chance) and that I feel is positive. However in the hands of Max cp players who are also skilled -- that the sets need toned down is clear.
I'd start with proc percentage and aoe radius (thinking of infernal guardian and velidreth) but not necessarily the damage. Mitigating or avoiding damage is a learn to play issue and high damage combos are numerous
you do realize that the proc sets folks are talking about is viper, red mountain, widowmaker right? you do realize those alone pull higher dps then any mage toon can pull in pvp because those sets are not affected by the pvp damage debuff.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
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v160 spellsword (nightblade)1 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
rofl you think proc sets made a balance to the game? rofl yes cause its real balanced what a duel 2nd gap close on a person then run away and repeat. yes cause that so balanced a guy just gap closing to proc armor procs is so freaking balanced. also they so balanced when they are not debuffed by pvp damage debuff, are coupled with the strongest skills in the game. sry but proc sets have put pvp beyond what pvp was when they instituted the damage debuff because zos said PEOPLE WERE DYING TO FAST THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO RESPOND AND NOW THEY HAVE EVEN LESS TIME TO RESPOND THANKS TO PROC SETS.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
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v160 spellsword (nightblade)2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Metemsycosis wrote: »Proc sets are must-have, especially for stamina characters, and this alone should be a red flag they are too powerful. But for now I notice they level the playing field between newer players and experienced players (ie proc sets give them a legitimate fighting chance) and that I feel is positive. However in the hands of Max cp players who are also skilled -- that the sets need toned down is clear.
I'd start with proc percentage and aoe radius (thinking of infernal guardian and velidreth) but not necessarily the damage. Mitigating or avoiding damage is a learn to play issue and high damage combos are numerous
you do realize that the proc sets folks are talking about is viper, red mountain, widowmaker right? you do realize those alone pull higher dps then any mage toon can pull in pvp because those sets are not affected by the pvp damage debuff.
You realize you don't know what you're talking about? First, the OP has clearly stated its a thread about all proc sets, magicka and stamina so don't change the topic to 3 of those proc sets. Second, if you really think that only stamina players have proc sets you are wrong. Skoria often hits for over 7k and if you manage to keep an enemy player inside Grothdarr they are good as dead. Third, proc sets are burst damage not sustained damage, which leads me to think you don't know what DPS actually means. DPS is damage per second, so its a mesure of sustained damage (not burst). A stamina build stacking 3 proc sets will have very high burst but very low sustained damage. A magicka build (say magicka sorc) will have very good burst and good sustained damage or (say magicka templar) low burst and high sustained damage. Last but not least, the proc sets are affected by Battle Spirit so you're just spreading misinformation here.As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
rofl you think proc sets made a balance to the game? rofl yes cause its real balanced what a duel 2nd gap close on a person then run away and repeat. yes cause that so balanced a guy just gap closing to proc armor procs is so freaking balanced. also they so balanced when they are not debuffed by pvp damage debuff, are coupled with the strongest skills in the game. sry but proc sets have put pvp beyond what pvp was when they instituted the damage debuff because zos said PEOPLE WERE DYING TO FAST THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO RESPOND AND NOW THEY HAVE EVEN LESS TIME TO RESPOND THANKS TO PROC SETS.
This post just made me laugh. Any good player can outplay a bad player who is stacking proc sets. This is apparently not the case for you. Any good player can adjust their build to go against proc sets.Edited by Izaki on 11 December 2016 04:09@ Izaki #PCEU
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AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Proc sets are must-have, especially for stamina characters, and this alone should be a red flag they are too powerful. But for now I notice they level the playing field between newer players and experienced players (ie proc sets give them a legitimate fighting chance) and that I feel is positive. However in the hands of Max cp players who are also skilled -- that the sets need toned down is clear.
I'd start with proc percentage and aoe radius (thinking of infernal guardian and velidreth) but not necessarily the damage. Mitigating or avoiding damage is a learn to play issue and high damage combos are numerous
you do realize that the proc sets folks are talking about is viper, red mountain, widowmaker right? you do realize those alone pull higher dps then any mage toon can pull in pvp because those sets are not affected by the pvp damage debuff.
You realize you don't know what you're talking about? First, the OP has clearly stated its a thread about all proc sets, magicka and stamina so don't change the topic to 3 of those proc sets. Second, if you really think that only stamina players have proc sets you are wrong. Skoria often hits for over 7k and if you manage to keGrothdarr Third, proc sets are burst damage not sustained damage, which leads me to think you don't know what DPS actually means. DPS is damage per second, so its a mesure of sustained damage (not burst). A stamina build stacking 3 proc sets will have very high burst but very low sustained damage. A magicka build (say magicka sorc) will have very good burst and good sustained damage or (say magicka templar) low burst and high sustained damage. Last but not least, the proc sets are affected by Battle Spirit so you're just spreading misinformation here.
first things, magicka based proc sets are no where close as op as stamina procs, also most of them can be countered/avoided. grothdarr, just stay more then 5m away when it procs, same for shock master, scathing mage ect. skoria is the only one that you cannot hard counter, but between its cool down and very low proc chance it actually does not play a big role. wereas on the other side, red mountain, viper, and widowmaker allow for any 2 of those to be combined together with options to combine with monster set if you wanna weapon swap or use dw or s/b. there are no counters to any of them as they proc directly on the person. so dont even think to compare stamina procs to magicka procs. magicka procs are hell balanced. even vicious death is balanced.As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
rofl you think proc sets made a balance to the game? rofl yes cause its real balanced what a duel 2nd gap close on a person then run away and repeat. yes cause that so balanced a guy just gap closing to proc armor procs is so freaking balanced. also they so balanced when they are not debuffed by pvp damage debuff, are coupled with the strongest skills in the game. sry but proc sets have put pvp beyond what pvp was when they instituted the damage debuff because zos said PEOPLE WERE DYING TO FAST THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO RESPOND AND NOW THEY HAVE EVEN LESS TIME TO RESPOND THANKS TO PROC SETS.
This post just made me laugh. Any good player can outplay a bad player who is stacking proc sets. This is apparently not the case for you. Any good player can adjust their build to go against proc sets.
rofl you do realize that unless you can sustainly block without running out of stamina, have a 30k health and able to heal for 20k+ every 4s, you will die to procs each and every time no matter how good you are or how bad the opponent is. unless of course you cheat through otherways.
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v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
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✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Proc sets are must-have, especially for stamina characters, and this alone should be a red flag they are too powerful. But for now I notice they level the playing field between newer players and experienced players (ie proc sets give them a legitimate fighting chance) and that I feel is positive. However in the hands of Max cp players who are also skilled -- that the sets need toned down is clear.
I'd start with proc percentage and aoe radius (thinking of infernal guardian and velidreth) but not necessarily the damage. Mitigating or avoiding damage is a learn to play issue and high damage combos are numerous
you do realize that the proc sets folks are talking about is viper, red mountain, widowmaker right? you do realize those alone pull higher dps then any mage toon can pull in pvp because those sets are not affected by the pvp damage debuff.
You realize you don't know what you're talking about? First, the OP has clearly stated its a thread about all proc sets, magicka and stamina so don't change the topic to 3 of those proc sets. Second, if you really think that only stamina players have proc sets you are wrong. Skoria often hits for over 7k and if you manage to keep an enemy player inside Grothdarr they are good as dead. Third, proc sets are burst damage not sustained damage, which leads me to think you don't know what DPS actually means. DPS is damage per second, so its a mesure of sustained damage (not burst). A stamina build stacking 3 proc sets will have very high burst but very low sustained damage. A magicka build (say magicka sorc) will have very good burst and good sustained damage or (say magicka templar) low burst and high sustained damage. Last but not least, the proc sets are affected by Battle Spirit so you're just spreading misinformation here.As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
rofl you think proc sets made a balance to the game? rofl yes cause its real balanced what a duel 2nd gap close on a person then run away and repeat. yes cause that so balanced a guy just gap closing to proc armor procs is so freaking balanced. also they so balanced when they are not debuffed by pvp damage debuff, are coupled with the strongest skills in the game. sry but proc sets have put pvp beyond what pvp was when they instituted the damage debuff because zos said PEOPLE WERE DYING TO FAST THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO RESPOND AND NOW THEY HAVE EVEN LESS TIME TO RESPOND THANKS TO PROC SETS.
This post just made me laugh. Any good player can outplay a bad player who is stacking proc sets. This is apparently not the case for you. Any good player can adjust their build to go against proc sets.
No one complains about skoria though. It has a low proc chance and only procs off dot damage and the sound indicator is highly telegraphed. Where as viper proc every 4 seconds just from light attacking. Velidreth does way too much damage and tremorscale has a ridiculous op snare. Magicka players do have proc sets but they really aren't a problem to fight against.1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Proc sets are must-have, especially for stamina characters, and this alone should be a red flag they are too powerful. But for now I notice they level the playing field between newer players and experienced players (ie proc sets give them a legitimate fighting chance) and that I feel is positive. However in the hands of Max cp players who are also skilled -- that the sets need toned down is clear.
I'd start with proc percentage and aoe radius (thinking of infernal guardian and velidreth) but not necessarily the damage. Mitigating or avoiding damage is a learn to play issue and high damage combos are numerous
you do realize that the proc sets folks are talking about is viper, red mountain, widowmaker right? you do realize those alone pull higher dps then any mage toon can pull in pvp because those sets are not affected by the pvp damage debuff.
You realize you don't know what you're talking about? First, the OP has clearly stated its a thread about all proc sets, magicka and stamina so don't change the topic to 3 of those proc sets. Second, if you really think that only stamina players have proc sets you are wrong. Skoria often hits for over 7k and if you manage to keGrothdarr Third, proc sets are burst damage not sustained damage, which leads me to think you don't know what DPS actually means. DPS is damage per second, so its a mesure of sustained damage (not burst). A stamina build stacking 3 proc sets will have very high burst but very low sustained damage. A magicka build (say magicka sorc) will have very good burst and good sustained damage or (say magicka templar) low burst and high sustained damage. Last but not least, the proc sets are affected by Battle Spirit so you're just spreading misinformation here.
first things, magicka based proc sets are no where close as op as stamina procs, also most of them can be countered/avoided. grothdarr, just stay more then 5m away when it procs, same for shock master, scathing mage ect. skoria is the only one that you cannot hard counter, but between its cool down and very low proc chance it actually does not play a big role. wereas on the other side, red mountain, viper, and widowmaker allow for any 2 of those to be combined together with options to combine with monster set if you wanna weapon swap or use dw or s/b. there are no counters to any of them as they proc directly on the person. so dont even think to compare stamina procs to magicka procs. magicka procs are hell balanced. even vicious death is balanced.As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
rofl you think proc sets made a balance to the game? rofl yes cause its real balanced what a duel 2nd gap close on a person then run away and repeat. yes cause that so balanced a guy just gap closing to proc armor procs is so freaking balanced. also they so balanced when they are not debuffed by pvp damage debuff, are coupled with the strongest skills in the game. sry but proc sets have put pvp beyond what pvp was when they instituted the damage debuff because zos said PEOPLE WERE DYING TO FAST THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO RESPOND AND NOW THEY HAVE EVEN LESS TIME TO RESPOND THANKS TO PROC SETS.
This post just made me laugh. Any good player can outplay a bad player who is stacking proc sets. This is apparently not the case for you. Any good player can adjust their build to go against proc sets.
rofl you do realize that unless you can sustainly block without running out of stamina, have a 30k health and able to heal for 20k+ every 4s, you will die to procs each and every time no matter how good you are or how bad the opponent is. unless of course you cheat through otherways.
That last part... L2P issue and I don't say that often. I can beat proc set user just fine on a dual wield magicka sorcerer, aka something considered completely not viable. Why can I do it and you can't? Maybe cause I've actually put time into my build and spent time learning to PvP properly against the current meta. I'm not the only one. There are plenty of players out there who are much better than me, who can deal with proc sets too. Sure its hard, hard enough for a lot of people to not want to struggle. Proc sets are most effective in a duel and plenty of players can beat a proc user, including myself. So if you're saying that its absolutely impossible to beat a proctato without cheating (which I can't as I'm on console) you clearly have no clue in how to adjust yourself to the meta or how to adjust your build to the meta.
I do think about comparing proc sets. BTW Scathing Mage is unavoidable, because it doesn't deal damage, it gives you a spell damage buff. Skoria procs on the player, deals twice the damage of Tremorscale, procs every 5 seconds as opposed to 4. Both can be blocked, dodged or shielded. Tremorscale is much stronger as it applies a snare and has a 50% proc chance, I'm not arguing against that. You're saying though that ALL stamina procs are overpowered which is false.
According to your logic a magicka build that can wipe out an entire group of players with Vicious Death is balanced and a stamina proc build who can one-shot one target every 4 seconds isn't? Vicious Death isn't exactly the most balanced thing in the game either.
Here have a read on what I've posted earlier, we are on the same side here. Its just that you're waaaay over-dramaticising things. I don't want to repeat myself.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?
All procs for magic and stamina are ruining pvp. They need to and will be nurfed
@Dk_needs_a_buff I don't agree that all proc sets are ruining PvP. Before, not one ever complained about Skoria, Bloodspawn, Molag Kena or any other proc set used by itself. Stacking of proc sets is the issue. Viper by itself is still kinda OP because of the consistant proc chance, but you won't 1 shot anyone with it. Tremor by itself is OP I'll agree to that, especially the long lasting snare and the high proc chance, make it too easily abusable. Grothdarr isn't OP (but I did hear it was bugged in that it was over-proc'ing). Selene isn't OP cause of the balanced proc chance (but it is bugged). Velidreth is a tough one, it can be borderline OP in the right hands aka gankblade. Ilambris isn't OP. Infernal Guardian is bugged so no discussion needed. Skoria isn't OP. Red Mountain isn't OP. Widow isn't OP. Nerien'eth isn't OP. Sellistrix isn't OP. Stormfist isn't OP. Kra'gh isn't OP. Thunder bug isn't OP. Winterborn sucks. By themselves, most monster sets and proc sets are fine in terms of balance, although there are some obvious exceptions that are either easily abusable, bugged or simply just too strong. Those exceptions are the ones that need nerfing.
Now there are also some proc sets that are defensive or utility based, like Engine Guardian (isn't OP), Bloodspawn (isn't OP), Chokethorn (isn't OP), Shadowrend (is pretty crap, although Blobs makes pretty good use of it), Maw of the Infernal (crap), Bogdan Nightflame (crap), Lord Warden (isn't OP), Molag Kena (isn't OP), Scathing Mage (isn't OP), Spell Power Cure (isn't OP), Burning Spellweave (isn't OP), Ravager (isn't OP), Seventh Legion (very strong, but isn't OP cause the other set boni are just bad for the most part). There are some like Malubeth and Troll King especially that are really over the top and need nerfing.
Bottom line is, proc sets add RNG to a fight. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is that you gotta pay attention all the time and it makes the fights less monotonous (the animations for most of them are pretty damn sweet too). With such a variety of different sets each providing something different, it just adds so much "spice" to the game. The bad thing is that you can kill someone who you wouldn't have killed just because of a lucky proc. So in a situation where skill is prioritized, certain proc sets can simply be banned, for example in duels. In other situations, like in trials proc sets are fine. Since we are talking PvP, where we have gankers or unkillable tanks, proc sets are acceptable. I don't think that a complete removal of proc sets is a possible future, nor do I think that it would be good for the game.
The stacking of proc sets is the real problem. The root of that problem is that some sets are over performing like Viper, Tremor and Velidreth (in some cases) or others are bugged like Infernal Guardian (the new Magelight), Selene (double proc), etc. If ZOS can find a way to prevent exploitive stacking of proc sets and if they can balance/fix the ones mentioned above (among others I certainly must have missed) without making them useless, I think that PvP will be fine from the proc set perspective. There are still other problems like the Eye of the Storm morph which doesn't have any legit counters (aside from running away from a fight -_- and I doubt that ZOS wants to encourage fleeing) and some other abilities that are over the top, but that's a discussion for another day.
So yeah, that's my opinion on proc sets. Keep in mind, I don't use proc sets on my characters, so its not the reason I'm defending them (more like defending the concept of proc sets). I run a magicka sorcerer with 1 piece Ilambris and 1 piece Grothdarr. I also don't use the FotM proc sets on my stamina characters. I run a medium armor stamblade with 1 Kra'gh and 1 Velidreth, a stamina DK tank with Bloodspawn and a stamina sorcerer with Engine Guardian. Just saying that I'm not defending proc sets because I abuse them too like so many others. Nice day to you all.
@thankyourat just read what I posted earlier, I've already said everything there and don't want to repeat myself. ^^^^^^Edited by Izaki on 11 December 2016 04:51@ Izaki #PCEU
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AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Proc sets are must-have, especially for stamina characters, and this alone should be a red flag they are too powerful. But for now I notice they level the playing field between newer players and experienced players (ie proc sets give them a legitimate fighting chance) and that I feel is positive. However in the hands of Max cp players who are also skilled -- that the sets need toned down is clear.
I'd start with proc percentage and aoe radius (thinking of infernal guardian and velidreth) but not necessarily the damage. Mitigating or avoiding damage is a learn to play issue and high damage combos are numerous
you do realize that the proc sets folks are talking about is viper, red mountain, widowmaker right? you do realize those alone pull higher dps then any mage toon can pull in pvp because those sets are not affected by the pvp damage debuff.
You realize you don't know what you're talking about? First, the OP has clearly stated its a thread about all proc sets, magicka and stamina so don't change the topic to 3 of those proc sets. Second, if you really think that only stamina players have proc sets you are wrong. Skoria often hits for over 7k and if you manage to keGrothdarr Third, proc sets are burst damage not sustained damage, which leads me to think you don't know what DPS actually means. DPS is damage per second, so its a mesure of sustained damage (not burst). A stamina build stacking 3 proc sets will have very high burst but very low sustained damage. A magicka build (say magicka sorc) will have very good burst and good sustained damage or (say magicka templar) low burst and high sustained damage. Last but not least, the proc sets are affected by Battle Spirit so you're just spreading misinformation here.
first things, magicka based proc sets are no where close as op as stamina procs, also most of them can be countered/avoided. grothdarr, just stay more then 5m away when it procs, same for shock master, scathing mage ect. skoria is the only one that you cannot hard counter, but between its cool down and very low proc chance it actually does not play a big role. wereas on the other side, red mountain, viper, and widowmaker allow for any 2 of those to be combined together with options to combine with monster set if you wanna weapon swap or use dw or s/b. there are no counters to any of them as they proc directly on the person. so dont even think to compare stamina procs to magicka procs. magicka procs are hell balanced. even vicious death is balanced.As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
rofl you think proc sets made a balance to the game? rofl yes cause its real balanced what a duel 2nd gap close on a person then run away and repeat. yes cause that so balanced a guy just gap closing to proc armor procs is so freaking balanced. also they so balanced when they are not debuffed by pvp damage debuff, are coupled with the strongest skills in the game. sry but proc sets have put pvp beyond what pvp was when they instituted the damage debuff because zos said PEOPLE WERE DYING TO FAST THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO RESPOND AND NOW THEY HAVE EVEN LESS TIME TO RESPOND THANKS TO PROC SETS.
This post just made me laugh. Any good player can outplay a bad player who is stacking proc sets. This is apparently not the case for you. Any good player can adjust their build to go against proc sets.
rofl you do realize that unless you can sustainly block without running out of stamina, have a 30k health and able to heal for 20k+ every 4s, you will die to procs each and every time no matter how good you are or how bad the opponent is. unless of course you cheat through otherways.
That last part... L2P issue and I don't say that often. I can beat proc set user just fine on a dual wield magicka sorcerer, aka something considered completely not viable. Why can I do it and you can't? Maybe cause I've actually put time into my build and spent time learning to PvP properly against the current meta. I'm not the only one. There are plenty of players out there who are much better than me, who can deal with proc sets too. Sure its hard, hard enough for a lot of people to not want to struggle. Proc sets are most effective in a duel and plenty of players can beat a proc user, including myself. So if you're saying that its absolutely impossible to beat a proctato without cheating (which I can't as I'm on console) you clearly have no clue in how to adjust yourself to the meta or how to adjust your build to the meta.
According to your logic a magicka build that can wipe out an entire group of players with Vicious Death is balanced and a stamina proc build who can one-shot one target every 4 seconds isn't? Vicious Death isn't exactly the most balanced thing in the game either.
Here have a read on what I've posted earlier, we are on the same side here. Its just that you're waaaay over-dramaticising things. I don't want to repeat myself.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?
All procs for magic and stamina are ruining pvp. They need to and will be nurfed
@Dk_needs_a_buff I don't agree that all proc sets are ruining PvP. Before, not one ever complained about Skoria, Bloodspawn, Molag Kena or any other proc set used by itself. Stacking of proc sets is the issue. Viper by itself is still kinda OP because of the consistant proc chance, but you won't 1 shot anyone with it. Tremor by itself is OP I'll agree to that, especially the long lasting snare and the high proc chance, make it too easily abusable. Grothdarr isn't OP (but I did hear it was bugged in that it was over-proc'ing). Selene isn't OP cause of the balanced proc chance (but it is bugged). Velidreth is a tough one, it can be borderline OP in the right hands aka gankblade. Ilambris isn't OP. Infernal Guardian is bugged so no discussion needed. Skoria isn't OP. Red Mountain isn't OP. Widow isn't OP. Nerien'eth isn't OP. Sellistrix isn't OP. Stormfist isn't OP. Kra'gh isn't OP. Thunder bug isn't OP. Winterborn sucks. By themselves, most monster sets and proc sets are fine in terms of balance, although there are some obvious exceptions that are either easily abusable, bugged or simply just too strong. Those exceptions are the ones that need nerfing.
Now there are also some proc sets that are defensive or utility based, like Engine Guardian (isn't OP), Bloodspawn (isn't OP), Chokethorn (isn't OP), Shadowrend (is pretty crap, although Blobs makes pretty good use of it), Maw of the Infernal (crap), Bogdan Nightflame (crap), Lord Warden (isn't OP), Molag Kena (isn't OP), Scathing Mage (isn't OP), Spell Power Cure (isn't OP), Burning Spellweave (isn't OP), Ravager (isn't OP), Seventh Legion (very strong, but isn't OP cause the other set boni are just bad for the most part). There are some like Malubeth and Troll King especially that are really over the top and need nerfing.
Bottom line is, proc sets add RNG to a fight. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is that you gotta pay attention all the time and it makes the fights less monotonous (the animations for most of them are pretty damn sweet too). With such a variety of different sets each providing something different, it just adds so much "spice" to the game. The bad thing is that you can kill someone who you wouldn't have killed just because of a lucky proc. So in a situation where skill is prioritized, certain proc sets can simply be banned, for example in duels. In other situations, like in trials proc sets are fine. Since we are talking PvP, where we have gankers or unkillable tanks, proc sets are acceptable. I don't think that a complete removal of proc sets is a possible future, nor do I think that it would be good for the game.
The stacking of proc sets is the real problem. The root of that problem is that some sets are over performing like Viper, Tremor and Velidreth (in some cases) or others are bugged like Infernal Guardian (the new Magelight), Selene (double proc), etc. If ZOS can find a way to prevent exploitive stacking of proc sets and if they can balance/fix the ones mentioned above (among others I certainly must have missed) without making them useless, I think that PvP will be fine from the proc set perspective. There are still other problems like the Eye of the Storm morph which doesn't have any legit counters (aside from running away from a fight -_- and I doubt that ZOS wants to encourage fleeing) and some other abilities that are over the top, but that's a discussion for another day.
So yeah, that's my opinion on proc sets. Keep in mind, I don't use proc sets on my characters, so its not the reason I'm defending them (more like defending the concept of proc sets). I run a magicka sorcerer with 1 piece Ilambris and 1 piece Grothdarr. I also don't use the FotM proc sets on my stamina characters. I run a medium armor stamblade with 1 Kra'gh and 1 Velidreth, a stamina DK tank with Bloodspawn and a stamina sorcerer with Engine Guardian. Just saying that I'm not defending proc sets because I abuse them too like so many others. Nice day to you all.
@thankyourat just read what I posted earlier, I've already said everything there and don't want to repeat myself. ^^^^^^
dude if you killed someone wearing proc gear, either 1. they were not trying to kill you. or 2. you had a group with you.v160 spellsword (nightblade)
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✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Proc sets are must-have, especially for stamina characters, and this alone should be a red flag they are too powerful. But for now I notice they level the playing field between newer players and experienced players (ie proc sets give them a legitimate fighting chance) and that I feel is positive. However in the hands of Max cp players who are also skilled -- that the sets need toned down is clear.
I'd start with proc percentage and aoe radius (thinking of infernal guardian and velidreth) but not necessarily the damage. Mitigating or avoiding damage is a learn to play issue and high damage combos are numerous
you do realize that the proc sets folks are talking about is viper, red mountain, widowmaker right? you do realize those alone pull higher dps then any mage toon can pull in pvp because those sets are not affected by the pvp damage debuff.
You realize you don't know what you're talking about? First, the OP has clearly stated its a thread about all proc sets, magicka and stamina so don't change the topic to 3 of those proc sets. Second, if you really think that only stamina players have proc sets you are wrong. Skoria often hits for over 7k and if you manage to keGrothdarr Third, proc sets are burst damage not sustained damage, which leads me to think you don't know what DPS actually means. DPS is damage per second, so its a mesure of sustained damage (not burst). A stamina build stacking 3 proc sets will have very high burst but very low sustained damage. A magicka build (say magicka sorc) will have very good burst and good sustained damage or (say magicka templar) low burst and high sustained damage. Last but not least, the proc sets are affected by Battle Spirit so you're just spreading misinformation here.
first things, magicka based proc sets are no where close as op as stamina procs, also most of them can be countered/avoided. grothdarr, just stay more then 5m away when it procs, same for shock master, scathing mage ect. skoria is the only one that you cannot hard counter, but between its cool down and very low proc chance it actually does not play a big role. wereas on the other side, red mountain, viper, and widowmaker allow for any 2 of those to be combined together with options to combine with monster set if you wanna weapon swap or use dw or s/b. there are no counters to any of them as they proc directly on the person. so dont even think to compare stamina procs to magicka procs. magicka procs are hell balanced. even vicious death is balanced.As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
rofl you think proc sets made a balance to the game? rofl yes cause its real balanced what a duel 2nd gap close on a person then run away and repeat. yes cause that so balanced a guy just gap closing to proc armor procs is so freaking balanced. also they so balanced when they are not debuffed by pvp damage debuff, are coupled with the strongest skills in the game. sry but proc sets have put pvp beyond what pvp was when they instituted the damage debuff because zos said PEOPLE WERE DYING TO FAST THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO RESPOND AND NOW THEY HAVE EVEN LESS TIME TO RESPOND THANKS TO PROC SETS.
This post just made me laugh. Any good player can outplay a bad player who is stacking proc sets. This is apparently not the case for you. Any good player can adjust their build to go against proc sets.
rofl you do realize that unless you can sustainly block without running out of stamina, have a 30k health and able to heal for 20k+ every 4s, you will die to procs each and every time no matter how good you are or how bad the opponent is. unless of course you cheat through otherways.
That last part... L2P issue and I don't say that often. I can beat proc set user just fine on a dual wield magicka sorcerer, aka something considered completely not viable. Why can I do it and you can't? Maybe cause I've actually put time into my build and spent time learning to PvP properly against the current meta. I'm not the only one. There are plenty of players out there who are much better than me, who can deal with proc sets too. Sure its hard, hard enough for a lot of people to not want to struggle. Proc sets are most effective in a duel and plenty of players can beat a proc user, including myself. So if you're saying that its absolutely impossible to beat a proctato without cheating (which I can't as I'm on console) you clearly have no clue in how to adjust yourself to the meta or how to adjust your build to the meta.
According to your logic a magicka build that can wipe out an entire group of players with Vicious Death is balanced and a stamina proc build who can one-shot one target every 4 seconds isn't? Vicious Death isn't exactly the most balanced thing in the game either.
Here have a read on what I've posted earlier, we are on the same side here. Its just that you're waaaay over-dramaticising things. I don't want to repeat myself.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?
All procs for magic and stamina are ruining pvp. They need to and will be nurfed
@Dk_needs_a_buff I don't agree that all proc sets are ruining PvP. Before, not one ever complained about Skoria, Bloodspawn, Molag Kena or any other proc set used by itself. Stacking of proc sets is the issue. Viper by itself is still kinda OP because of the consistant proc chance, but you won't 1 shot anyone with it. Tremor by itself is OP I'll agree to that, especially the long lasting snare and the high proc chance, make it too easily abusable. Grothdarr isn't OP (but I did hear it was bugged in that it was over-proc'ing). Selene isn't OP cause of the balanced proc chance (but it is bugged). Velidreth is a tough one, it can be borderline OP in the right hands aka gankblade. Ilambris isn't OP. Infernal Guardian is bugged so no discussion needed. Skoria isn't OP. Red Mountain isn't OP. Widow isn't OP. Nerien'eth isn't OP. Sellistrix isn't OP. Stormfist isn't OP. Kra'gh isn't OP. Thunder bug isn't OP. Winterborn sucks. By themselves, most monster sets and proc sets are fine in terms of balance, although there are some obvious exceptions that are either easily abusable, bugged or simply just too strong. Those exceptions are the ones that need nerfing.
Now there are also some proc sets that are defensive or utility based, like Engine Guardian (isn't OP), Bloodspawn (isn't OP), Chokethorn (isn't OP), Shadowrend (is pretty crap, although Blobs makes pretty good use of it), Maw of the Infernal (crap), Bogdan Nightflame (crap), Lord Warden (isn't OP), Molag Kena (isn't OP), Scathing Mage (isn't OP), Spell Power Cure (isn't OP), Burning Spellweave (isn't OP), Ravager (isn't OP), Seventh Legion (very strong, but isn't OP cause the other set boni are just bad for the most part). There are some like Malubeth and Troll King especially that are really over the top and need nerfing.
Bottom line is, proc sets add RNG to a fight. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is that you gotta pay attention all the time and it makes the fights less monotonous (the animations for most of them are pretty damn sweet too). With such a variety of different sets each providing something different, it just adds so much "spice" to the game. The bad thing is that you can kill someone who you wouldn't have killed just because of a lucky proc. So in a situation where skill is prioritized, certain proc sets can simply be banned, for example in duels. In other situations, like in trials proc sets are fine. Since we are talking PvP, where we have gankers or unkillable tanks, proc sets are acceptable. I don't think that a complete removal of proc sets is a possible future, nor do I think that it would be good for the game.
The stacking of proc sets is the real problem. The root of that problem is that some sets are over performing like Viper, Tremor and Velidreth (in some cases) or others are bugged like Infernal Guardian (the new Magelight), Selene (double proc), etc. If ZOS can find a way to prevent exploitive stacking of proc sets and if they can balance/fix the ones mentioned above (among others I certainly must have missed) without making them useless, I think that PvP will be fine from the proc set perspective. There are still other problems like the Eye of the Storm morph which doesn't have any legit counters (aside from running away from a fight -_- and I doubt that ZOS wants to encourage fleeing) and some other abilities that are over the top, but that's a discussion for another day.
So yeah, that's my opinion on proc sets. Keep in mind, I don't use proc sets on my characters, so its not the reason I'm defending them (more like defending the concept of proc sets). I run a magicka sorcerer with 1 piece Ilambris and 1 piece Grothdarr. I also don't use the FotM proc sets on my stamina characters. I run a medium armor stamblade with 1 Kra'gh and 1 Velidreth, a stamina DK tank with Bloodspawn and a stamina sorcerer with Engine Guardian. Just saying that I'm not defending proc sets because I abuse them too like so many others. Nice day to you all.
@thankyourat just read what I posted earlier, I've already said everything there and don't want to repeat myself. ^^^^^^
dude if you killed someone wearing proc gear, either 1. they were not trying to kill you. or 2. you had a group with you.
Aren't you funny. I never knew duels and 1vX are group activities. You know with shield stacking even if all the procs go off at the same time, your health won't be touched right? Cause shields aren't crittable. So Viper is going to do just over 3.5k damage, Tremor around 4k and Red Mountain around 4k. My shields are 24k. A 14k Hardened Ward and a 10k Harness Magic. Now if maths is that hard, all the damage from every single proc equals to 11.5k. Less than half of my shields. Except lets be honest here, people don't stack all 3 proc sets because they will be too squishy otherwise, so the sacrifice Red Mountain for Black Rose. They typically have around 25-26k health. Its not hard to do 26k damage on a magicka sorcerer with a well timed burst and a lucky crit or two. A burst that takes around 4 seconds to pull off. Mines > Curse > Fury > Meteor > Streak > Frags. So if you seriously think that its impossible to beat a proc set user without him trying to kill you or being solo, you really need to learn to play. Like seriously. Weren't you the one who thought that its also impossible to solo vet Cradle of Shadows?@ Izaki #PCEU
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AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »Proc sets are must-have, especially for stamina characters, and this alone should be a red flag they are too powerful. But for now I notice they level the playing field between newer players and experienced players (ie proc sets give them a legitimate fighting chance) and that I feel is positive. However in the hands of Max cp players who are also skilled -- that the sets need toned down is clear.
I'd start with proc percentage and aoe radius (thinking of infernal guardian and velidreth) but not necessarily the damage. Mitigating or avoiding damage is a learn to play issue and high damage combos are numerous
you do realize that the proc sets folks are talking about is viper, red mountain, widowmaker right? you do realize those alone pull higher dps then any mage toon can pull in pvp because those sets are not affected by the pvp damage debuff.
You realize you don't know what you're talking about? First, the OP has clearly stated its a thread about all proc sets, magicka and stamina so don't change the topic to 3 of those proc sets. Second, if you really think that only stamina players have proc sets you are wrong. Skoria often hits for over 7k and if you manage to keGrothdarr Third, proc sets are burst damage not sustained damage, which leads me to think you don't know what DPS actually means. DPS is damage per second, so its a mesure of sustained damage (not burst). A stamina build stacking 3 proc sets will have very high burst but very low sustained damage. A magicka build (say magicka sorc) will have very good burst and good sustained damage or (say magicka templar) low burst and high sustained damage. Last but not least, the proc sets are affected by Battle Spirit so you're just spreading misinformation here.
first things, magicka based proc sets are no where close as op as stamina procs, also most of them can be countered/avoided. grothdarr, just stay more then 5m away when it procs, same for shock master, scathing mage ect. skoria is the only one that you cannot hard counter, but between its cool down and very low proc chance it actually does not play a big role. wereas on the other side, red mountain, viper, and widowmaker allow for any 2 of those to be combined together with options to combine with monster set if you wanna weapon swap or use dw or s/b. there are no counters to any of them as they proc directly on the person. so dont even think to compare stamina procs to magicka procs. magicka procs are hell balanced. even vicious death is balanced.As I see it there is one very good thing about proc sets: You cannot make a build have skills and then play in superman mode ... you have to focus a lot on what the other players are using ect, because when you figth a person with proc sets you cannot allow your health to go low because rigth procs togeather with ulti and CC and you will die no matter what .... so this pacth you need more skills and there is more challenge in staying alive and not get killed.
This actualy make PvP more fun then everyone and their mother being in heavy armor and S&B going around killing people wile they have 5-10 man on them. I like the changes because PvP feels more alive and I need to be more focus and allert when people jump me.
In MMOs people always whine when they get killed insted of figering out how to work around it .... I just think the proc sets made a balance to the game.
You can still 1vX, still overpower others, you can still say Skills are bigger then gear, you dont need proc sets your self, you just need to be more allert and alive in PvP .... so I seriosly dont get the point of all the whining
rofl you think proc sets made a balance to the game? rofl yes cause its real balanced what a duel 2nd gap close on a person then run away and repeat. yes cause that so balanced a guy just gap closing to proc armor procs is so freaking balanced. also they so balanced when they are not debuffed by pvp damage debuff, are coupled with the strongest skills in the game. sry but proc sets have put pvp beyond what pvp was when they instituted the damage debuff because zos said PEOPLE WERE DYING TO FAST THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO RESPOND AND NOW THEY HAVE EVEN LESS TIME TO RESPOND THANKS TO PROC SETS.
This post just made me laugh. Any good player can outplay a bad player who is stacking proc sets. This is apparently not the case for you. Any good player can adjust their build to go against proc sets.
rofl you do realize that unless you can sustainly block without running out of stamina, have a 30k health and able to heal for 20k+ every 4s, you will die to procs each and every time no matter how good you are or how bad the opponent is. unless of course you cheat through otherways.
That last part... L2P issue and I don't say that often. I can beat proc set user just fine on a dual wield magicka sorcerer, aka something considered completely not viable. Why can I do it and you can't? Maybe cause I've actually put time into my build and spent time learning to PvP properly against the current meta. I'm not the only one. There are plenty of players out there who are much better than me, who can deal with proc sets too. Sure its hard, hard enough for a lot of people to not want to struggle. Proc sets are most effective in a duel and plenty of players can beat a proc user, including myself. So if you're saying that its absolutely impossible to beat a proctato without cheating (which I can't as I'm on console) you clearly have no clue in how to adjust yourself to the meta or how to adjust your build to the meta.
According to your logic a magicka build that can wipe out an entire group of players with Vicious Death is balanced and a stamina proc build who can one-shot one target every 4 seconds isn't? Vicious Death isn't exactly the most balanced thing in the game either.
Here have a read on what I've posted earlier, we are on the same side here. Its just that you're waaaay over-dramaticising things. I don't want to repeat myself.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
The Proctato(TM) sets are: Viper, Veli, Tremor, Widow, Red Mountain.IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Can't chose an option poll is biased.
Proc sets are the reason magicka DPS in trials is as good as it is now.
I'd love to know which one of them is used for magicka dps.
Proctato(TM) builds are carcinogenic to healthy PvP and deserve every bit of scorn and ridicule they get.NordSwordnBoard wrote: »It's not hard to make a poll unbiased, unless a biased poll isn't not your goal.
How long until this topic proccs a dead horse gif?
All procs for magic and stamina are ruining pvp. They need to and will be nurfed
@Dk_needs_a_buff I don't agree that all proc sets are ruining PvP. Before, not one ever complained about Skoria, Bloodspawn, Molag Kena or any other proc set used by itself. Stacking of proc sets is the issue. Viper by itself is still kinda OP because of the consistant proc chance, but you won't 1 shot anyone with it. Tremor by itself is OP I'll agree to that, especially the long lasting snare and the high proc chance, make it too easily abusable. Grothdarr isn't OP (but I did hear it was bugged in that it was over-proc'ing). Selene isn't OP cause of the balanced proc chance (but it is bugged). Velidreth is a tough one, it can be borderline OP in the right hands aka gankblade. Ilambris isn't OP. Infernal Guardian is bugged so no discussion needed. Skoria isn't OP. Red Mountain isn't OP. Widow isn't OP. Nerien'eth isn't OP. Sellistrix isn't OP. Stormfist isn't OP. Kra'gh isn't OP. Thunder bug isn't OP. Winterborn sucks. By themselves, most monster sets and proc sets are fine in terms of balance, although there are some obvious exceptions that are either easily abusable, bugged or simply just too strong. Those exceptions are the ones that need nerfing.
Now there are also some proc sets that are defensive or utility based, like Engine Guardian (isn't OP), Bloodspawn (isn't OP), Chokethorn (isn't OP), Shadowrend (is pretty crap, although Blobs makes pretty good use of it), Maw of the Infernal (crap), Bogdan Nightflame (crap), Lord Warden (isn't OP), Molag Kena (isn't OP), Scathing Mage (isn't OP), Spell Power Cure (isn't OP), Burning Spellweave (isn't OP), Ravager (isn't OP), Seventh Legion (very strong, but isn't OP cause the other set boni are just bad for the most part). There are some like Malubeth and Troll King especially that are really over the top and need nerfing.
Bottom line is, proc sets add RNG to a fight. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. The good thing is that you gotta pay attention all the time and it makes the fights less monotonous (the animations for most of them are pretty damn sweet too). With such a variety of different sets each providing something different, it just adds so much "spice" to the game. The bad thing is that you can kill someone who you wouldn't have killed just because of a lucky proc. So in a situation where skill is prioritized, certain proc sets can simply be banned, for example in duels. In other situations, like in trials proc sets are fine. Since we are talking PvP, where we have gankers or unkillable tanks, proc sets are acceptable. I don't think that a complete removal of proc sets is a possible future, nor do I think that it would be good for the game.
The stacking of proc sets is the real problem. The root of that problem is that some sets are over performing like Viper, Tremor and Velidreth (in some cases) or others are bugged like Infernal Guardian (the new Magelight), Selene (double proc), etc. If ZOS can find a way to prevent exploitive stacking of proc sets and if they can balance/fix the ones mentioned above (among others I certainly must have missed) without making them useless, I think that PvP will be fine from the proc set perspective. There are still other problems like the Eye of the Storm morph which doesn't have any legit counters (aside from running away from a fight -_- and I doubt that ZOS wants to encourage fleeing) and some other abilities that are over the top, but that's a discussion for another day.
So yeah, that's my opinion on proc sets. Keep in mind, I don't use proc sets on my characters, so its not the reason I'm defending them (more like defending the concept of proc sets). I run a magicka sorcerer with 1 piece Ilambris and 1 piece Grothdarr. I also don't use the FotM proc sets on my stamina characters. I run a medium armor stamblade with 1 Kra'gh and 1 Velidreth, a stamina DK tank with Bloodspawn and a stamina sorcerer with Engine Guardian. Just saying that I'm not defending proc sets because I abuse them too like so many others. Nice day to you all.
@thankyourat just read what I posted earlier, I've already said everything there and don't want to repeat myself. ^^^^^^
dude if you killed someone wearing proc gear, either 1. they were not trying to kill you. or 2. you had a group with you.
Aren't you funny. I never knew duels and 1vX are group activities. You know with shield stacking even if all the procs go off at the same time, your health won't be touched right? Cause shields aren't crittable. So Viper is going to do just over 3.5k damage, Tremor around 4k and Red Mountain around 4k. My shields are 24k. A 14k Hardened Ward and a 10k Harness Magic. Now if maths is that hard, all the damage from every single proc equals to 11.5k. Less than half of my shields. Except lets be honest here, people don't stack all 3 proc sets because they will be too squishy otherwise, so the sacrifice Red Mountain for Black Rose. They typically have around 25-26k health. Its not hard to do 26k damage on a magicka sorcerer with a well timed burst and a lucky crit or two. A burst that takes around 4 seconds to pull off. Mines > Curse > Fury > Meteor > Streak > Frags. So if you seriously think that its impossible to beat a proc set user without him trying to kill you or being solo, you really need to learn to play. Like seriously. Weren't you the one who thought that its also impossible to solo vet Cradle of Shadows?
you do know that if you cast 2 shields between attacks the opponent isnt trying to kill you? also shields dont shield much, 1 shield = 1 player skill covered. so no actually it doesnt. proc sets will rip your health apart so fast you wont be able to do squat on top of that shields cost so much you are nerfing your capabilities to match just thier skill based damage let alone thier proc based damage. out of stealth if they cannot hit you off 6-8k weapon attack + another 4-5k heavy attack + 5-7k viper proc they not built right. most people who cannot take down a shielding opponent are relying on crit for damage not weapon power/stamina. also fyi shields only stop opponent from critical striking, the downside though is that your shields take full damage.Edited by AzuraKin on 11 December 2016 05:12v160 spellsword (nightblade)
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