ZoS, we are NOT with you!

waterfairy

Here's what should happen, they should give each character a 1 time chance to change their appearance then charge for every extra change after that. I think this would be fair to both ZOS and us, especially since the character creation doesn't translate properly into what we see in game.

newtinmpls

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

That is indeed true and for that reason alone I am not complaining about the micro-transactions that this game has. All that I'm complaining about is the lack of fairness. The fact that it cost you 1,000 crowns for 1 appearance change doesn't seem fair to me. Why does it cost that much crowns just to change my appearance? What if I wanted to change something minor to my character... like changing the color of my characters eyes.... it's going to cost me 1,000 crowns to do that? Or change my facial hair. 1,000 crowns just to do that seems tad bit expensive.

I think the point is to make people really think about changes... and make it less likely to have them just done casually/randomly.

It seems to be working.

twistedmonk

The only way I can protest is never buy anything from their crown store.

DenMoria

Vigarr wrote: »

Here's what should happen, they should give each character a 1 time chance to change their appearance then charge for every extra change after that. I think this would be fair to both ZOS and us, especially since the character creation doesn't translate properly into what we see in game.

But only if their subscribers! We're the new master race.

DenMoria

twistedmonk wrote: »

The only way I can protest is never buy anything from their crown store.

Since there isn't anything to buy anyway (except the DLCs), that shouldn't be too hard.

babedenny

That other MMO charges real money for name change, appearance change, and race change. And just to add a little more perspective, they also charge $50 for DLC, even for subscribers. ESO does not.

I'm a little perplexed by this 'everything should be free' mentality these days. And before you say 'in game gold', that's also essentialy free.

Just my 2c

WebBull

babedenny wrote: »

That other MMO charges real money for name change, appearance change, and race change. And just to add a little more perspective, they also charge $50 for DLC, even for subscribers. ESO does not.

I'm a little perplexed by this 'everything should be free' mentality these days. And before you say 'in game gold', that's also essentialy free.

Just my 2c

New generation MMO player expects everything free.

WhitePawPrints

vamp_emily wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

My comment is as follows: "I WANT ZOS TO WORK AND SPEND RESOURCES (aka money) TO GIVE US SOMETHING FOR FREE (i.e. without us spending money)! HURR-DURR!"

You said people misinterpreted your words, you don't want it for "free", you want it to cost gold. 'Cause you know, ZOS employees can pay bills and stuff with an in-game currency.
I suppose that when you work you don't want a wage, right?

ZOS please charge this guy a convenience fee of $2.00 each time he hops on his mount. So you guys can put food on the table.

Where did you pull that quote from?

With the benefit of doubt, I would presume that you intended to quote another person on this thread; however I was unable to find any post that matched your quote. Thus I believe that you have violated the code of conduct of the forums be "quoting" another user and changing the content of that quote with the intent of hostility.

If you really did mean to (mis)quote me, then you have seriously misunderstood the content of my posts.

Ep1kMalware

DenMoria wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Natetendo83 wrote: »

Anybody who knows anything about business and economics knows that the only way for a game like this to stay profitable is to either mandate a monthly fee or monetize things like cosmetics. It's either you pay if you want to change your character or you pay a monthly fee. Pick one.

I'm guessing you don't know anything about business?

Maybe you should step out of the "MMO" sector and look at how some companies make money. You don't have to rip people off or rob them to stay profitable.

but no-one is being ripped off or robbed. the prices aren't hidden and you aren't being forced to buy anything.

and zos.... we are with you

You still don't get it. I'm assuming you never will.

getting it and agreeing with it are two very different things...

Well i don't know how everyone else feels but the people that bought crowns last week or even just a few days ago but i feel they got ripped because the crowns are on sale now. I know u can boost your ego and say "well they seen the price" .. bla bla bla.

Have a good life.

So if you go to the grocery store and purchase a bag of chips for $1.99 and a week later they go on sale for $99, you feel ripped off too?

That doesn't make a lot of sense you know. It's not like the put them on sale this week just so that you would be upset.

I bought crowns a few days ago as the mount I've been eying for a while finally released. I don't feel ripped off, if I was smart I would've bought those crowns last r=time they went on sale.

this guy is blaming everyone else for his own unwise choices, I see alot of it on these forums.

seems like 80% of forum posts are along the same general lines:

"I am angry with this situation, it is everyone elses fault, if tou don't agree with me I refuse to listen. I have nothing intelligent ro say, I am reduced to thoughtless rhetoric".

same post, differenr name.

Vaoh

There's a lot of comments on this thread....

babedenny

DeadDealer

greedy
and alot bugs...

sadownik

WebBull wrote: »

babedenny wrote: »

That other MMO charges real money for name change, appearance change, and race change. And just to add a little more perspective, they also charge $50 for DLC, even for subscribers. ESO does not.

I'm a little perplexed by this 'everything should be free' mentality these days. And before you say 'in game gold', that's also essentialy free.

Just my 2c

New generation MMO player expects everything free.

I play gw2 from launch, have spent thousands upon thousands of gems (crowns in gw2) and bought some gems with cash just once after 2 years because i felt bad playing the game with all the content added for free. And they are still rolling imagine!

Lord_Eomer

Not with you @ZOS_DaryaK

This Game is going in some strange direction..

AlexWars

babedenny wrote: »

That other MMO charges real money for name change, appearance change, and race change. And just to add a little more perspective, they also charge $50 for DLC, even for subscribers. ESO does not.

I'm a little perplexed by this 'everything should be free' mentality these days. And before you say 'in game gold', that's also essentialy free.

Just my 2c

I am curious as to whom has this mentality you are talking about. I clearly stated what I had HOPED for. Then went on to mention the other side and how this one issue is not going to cause me to stop supporting the game.

You got to realize that, other opinions exist. And all we can do is provide feedback. If giving feedback and suggestions is some sort of "mentality", I want to know what it is, and what is so bad about it.

Still supporting the game either way. I just hope that it does not become the new norm- example, locking the Housing System behind a pay wall.

petraeus1

WebBull wrote: »

babedenny wrote: »

That other MMO charges real money for name change, appearance change, and race change. And just to add a little more perspective, they also charge $50 for DLC, even for subscribers. ESO does not.

I'm a little perplexed by this 'everything should be free' mentality these days. And before you say 'in game gold', that's also essentialy free.

Just my 2c

New generation MMO player expects everything free.

Nonsense. Everyone here is a paying customer. The thing is, ZOS does not give anything for free, and they charge top dollar too. I simply don't like the insanity of microtransactions in games (in terms of amounts and pricing), especially B2P games with paid DLC, nor the feeling of getting nickle-and-dimed.

Other companies succesfully make me feel like I'm getting a fair deal, going so far as to release free content updates; with ESO even the small but nonetheless much anticipated things are put behind paywalls: 'Oh, thank you so much for buying a 10$ virtual costume - you want to dye it? Another dollar please, but you don't get to choose the colours freely or choose the order they come in.'

ZOS is a business, they're free to do what they want, but to me and many others (as this thread makes clear) these kinda things are just a turn off, that's making me spend less money. Combine this with the fact that ESO has had many issues over the past months with performance, crashes, bugs and a lot of downtime compared to any other online game I've played, and them ignoring countless forum threads of suggestions concerning the implementation of these barber shop features dating all the way back to 2014, and I'm simply not impressed.

That gamers are conditioned in this day and age to be okay with each and every microtransaction as long as they're not P2W - well, it's your wallet. If they want me to buy in on these microtransactions, their game better be state of the art.

Nerouyn

I have to disagree with the OP. Having dropped the subscription, charging money for appearance changes is perfectly reasonable and that's something which many other games, eg. GW2, do.

That said, ESO's currently advertised prices for some of these services is somewhere in the crazypants region. Just for comparison, GW2 charges about $10 to change a character name, compared to $25 for ESO. Appearance change in GW2 is about $4 to $5 compared to ESO's $10.

On the flipside it looks like ESO lets you change your hairstyle, adornments and markings any time you like for free, if you own the style? That's relatively generous compared to other games and something I'd appreciate and make good use of.

So for my personal situation - being happy with my characters' appearance because I spent literally months creating and deleting characters (curse your BLEEPing once-a-day delete limit) to get something which looked good not just in the creator but out in the world - I'm very satisfied with the style parlor.

I'll be updating my client and taking a good look at it tomorrow.

Elloa

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Come on, Zos! Charging us real life money to change our appearance? To charge us real life money for changing our hairstyles because were getting bored with the current style that our avatars has already? To charge us to purchase dyes? To even go as far as to charge us real life money to change our in-game names?!?!?!??!?! Wow just WOW! How low can your company go??!??!! This is coming from someone who is subscribed to ESO Plus so I'm not just asking for a free handout because I'm financially supporting you already. This does not encourage me to further financially support your company when you do stuffs like this because it's a sign of greed. Even Rockstar wouldn't go this far below in their current golden game (GTA V/Online).

Instead of charging us real life money for these why not allow us to use our gold to get a hair cut or to change our appearance? Heck back in Skyrim each time we want to change our appearance (non vampire) all we had to do is go to Riften in the The Ragged Flagon, and speak with the woman Altmer (Galathil), and give her 1000 gold each time we want to change our appearance. Why not do the same in this game? Each time we want to change our appearance we need to speak with a NPC, and give him/her 1,000 gold for each appearance change? Why must you charge us real life money for it?

The only games that allow change of appareance (haircut, make-up etc) is World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV which are still a sub games.
Every other game charge for apparence change a way or another.

• GW2 you need to purchase a special token to allow you to change apparence
• SWTOR you need to purchase new haircut separately
• Aion, BlackDesert, ArcheAge, Tera requiere you to purchase the service.

Name change? That always cost something EVEN in Word of Warcraft (5€)

One day people should investigate how other games are doing their cash shop before to complain about ESO Crown store. Beside the motifs in the cash Shop and the XP scrolls, I'm pretty much fine with everything.
One can not compare a SOLO game with a MMORPG.

In the end if someone want to get stuff, he need to suscribe, and he will never have the feeling to have to "pay" for stuff. It's all covered in the sub!

Elloa

Van_0S wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

As Rich once said, you know you don't have to be here right?

Wow! Did he really say that ?!
So, he is very confident about the game .Good to know.
Edit: Or is he challenging us?

The guy to whom he answered that was extremly rude for not much reason though. It's dangerous to take things out of context!

Lysette

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

mike_de wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

So you want to use your ingame gold, aka get it freely.. What did you seriously expect the company has to make a living, so we have the crownstore.. the new cosmetics are not an advantage or neccessity in any way, so of course you must pay for it.. The prices may be a little high, but wanting them for free is the rant of a spoiled mind

If they get too greedy, like now, people stop subscribing, because it does not feel right to give these people more money. They don't deserve it, because they try to "rob us blind". Do you make trades with people you don't trust any longer to have your best interests in mind and give you a fair win-win situation?

That is the real problem here. It's the amount they charge, not the fact that they want money for it. I can live with that, it's business.

But the name change, as example is in my personal opinion 20 to 25 times overpriced. At least my feeling about value says that to me. And that I can not accept.

If they would have sold packs with 8-12 tokens for the same price, I am certain they would have made a whole lot more sales in total - simply because pretty much everyone who buys something from the crown store at all, has minor flaws discovered on their characters (basically on all of them, if they are critical enough) and so it could be expected that all of those, who are interested in character apperance at all and buy from the crown store would have bought such a pack. And if pretty much all do that, it is much more revenue than if just a few do it and have to decide this for any of their characters again - it is by far easier to decide this for all of your characters, because at least one will have a flaw to be fixed if not several.

This would have been a clever marketing move - to sell this for the same price but as a pack of 8-12 tokens, and not just 1.

You know I would of been a lot more happier with just 8 tokens instead of 12. I would of proudly purchase the appearance change for 2,000 crowns for the total amount of 12 tokens in all.

Ah, I did not say, why I thought of 8-12 tokens - I thought dependent on the character slots a player has, it would be flexibly 8-12 tokens, in order to make it possible to make changes once to all characters - because pretty much anyone will have seen minor flaws on their characters and if they can fix this with a single purchase from the crown store this would make them more likely to buy this and maybe even more often - this was the idea with it.

petraeus1

Nerouyn wrote: »

I have to disagree with the OP. Having dropped the subscription, charging money for appearance changes is perfectly reasonable and that's something which many other games, eg. GW2, do.

That said, ESO's currently advertised prices for some of these services is somewhere in the crazypants region. Just for comparison, GW2 charges about $10 to change a character name, compared to $25 for ESO. Appearance change in GW2 is about $4 to $5 compared to ESO's $10.

On the flipside it looks like ESO lets you change your hairstyle, adornments and markings any time you like for free, if you own the style? That's relatively generous compared to other games and something I'd appreciate and make good use of.

So for my personal situation - being happy with my characters' appearance because I spent literally months creating and deleting characters (curse your BLEEPing once-a-day delete limit) to get something which looked good not just in the creator but out in the world - I'm very satisfied with the style parlor.

I'll be updating my client and taking a good look at it tomorrow.

If we're going to compare games - Guild Wars 2 also has free content updates, offers an (admittedly RNG-based) chance to get appearance change in Tyria and allows you to convert in-game currency to Gems.

We can endlessly compare games: WoW charges for all these things and a subfee, EQ2, LOTRO and STO are F2P yet offer appearance change for in-game gold.

It does not get us very far. Many games however use a cash shop to complement their income because they lack a box price, or because they don't ask money for content updates, or because they don't have a subfee. ESO however has all of those, albeit the subfee is not imposed on anyone.

petraeus1

Elloa wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

As Rich once said, you know you don't have to be here right?

Wow! Did he really say that ?!
So, he is very confident about the game .Good to know.
Edit: Or is he challenging us?

The guy to whom he answered that was extremly rude for not much reason though. It's dangerous to take things out of context!

He was not extremely rude, he asked about the console issues in a topic that was casually about Rich and how he plays the game. It was off-topic, sure, and it was a complaint, yes.

But then again, reading all of the issues console users have had since Dark Brotherhood and not receiving any developer comment on the issues, but to see a developer comment like 20 times in a casual thread - I can understand the frustration.

Lysette

jcaceresw wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Dromede wrote: »

I guess we should be happy with the base game hair pack that costs just 1000 crowns that can be worn as wigs without needing to use the token...

And to people who are annoyed with these kind of threads - please have some compassion and perspective. We're not all millionaires, and for some it's really expensive. A race/name/appearance change would cost me 2 hours of real life work, and even though this price makes sense within MMO setting and ESO's general pricing, I will think twice before dropping money on it.

That's all - it's less affordable that we hoped it would be. Most people were ready to pay, there's no entitlement here, we just didn't expect it to be this much.

There's so many rude answers here that go into a different extreme...

It is not even a matter of affordable or not - it is more a matter of principle - do I want to support greed or don't I - and this is a question which comes up regardless of affordability - at least to a moral person IMO.

This said, I have changed my mind when it comes to the price of name change - I think it is very high, but then it came to mind, what if it would be cheap and people would use it to troll and grief other players with it, lots of reports would get to ZOS and GMs would have to deal with these issues. This would no longer just be a case of a database change of a name, it would actually involve action of staff, and this is far more expensive than just a database change - and so I somewhat understand the high price for name change.

And what if they also implement a cooldown of about 30 days after last change for that specific toon? I believe the price (and the situation you describe) can go down if they were to implement that functionality too.

I like the idea of it - but there should be a period of grace for maybe a couple of hours after you changed your character, to enter the style parlor again and make changes without to use another token - lighting in game and in style parlor differ and these changes might be required to get to a satisfying result - in this case I would be for a cool down time afterwards.

Nerouyn

petraeus1 wrote: »

If we're going to compare games - Guild Wars 2 also has free content updates, offers an (admittedly RNG-based) chance to get appearance change in Tyria and allows you to convert in-game currency to Gems.

True on all counts.

petraeus1 wrote: »

We can endlessly compare games: WoW charges for all these things and a subfee, EQ2, LOTRO and STO are F2P yet offer appearance change for in-game gold.

It does not get us very far.

It's the only reasonable standard by which to judge. It's called free market economics. Consumers look at what's available from different vendors and at what prices and choose how to spend their money accordingly.

If I see services/items in this game which cost more than double what they do in others, I'm going to regard them as overpriced.

Likewise, if I see ESO offering things for free which some other games charge for, like hairstyle changes which I mentioned (though you have to buy the styles), I'm going to see that as generous.

petraeus1 wrote: »

Many games however use a cash shop to complement their income because they lack a box price, or because they don't ask money for content updates, or because they don't have a subfee. ESO however has all of those, albeit the subfee is not imposed on anyone.

Yes ESO has an optional subscription but it being optional makes ESO effectively B2P, which GW2 also was until relatively recently. That makes it a good game for comparison in my books.

As far as subscribers go, a single month subscription will earn you 1500 crowns. Buying the regular hairstyle pack only costs 1000 crowns. So subscribe for one month and you've got enough for all the regular hairstyles plus a few of the fancier ones, should you want them.

That said, I really am not a huge fan of cash shops. Especially not in games with a subscription. But putting aside the really expensive and hopefully rarely needed race, name and full appearance change options, the parlor seems relatively generous to me - to both those who do and don't subscribe.

Lysette

DenMoria wrote: »

twistedmonk wrote: »

The only way I can protest is never buy anything from their crown store.

Since there isn't anything to buy anyway (except the DLCs), that shouldn't be too hard.

Lol, that is exactly my problem currently - I might by pure desperation buy a race change token without to ever really use it, just that I have something to play around with and see what I could eventually do with my characters to enhance their looks. Or for the fun of it, just look, what they would be looking like as another race or another gender. Could as well be nice to make some screen shots, because the style parlor background looks nice - do I have to use that token ever - no, not really. So this would be more a "what-if" game for a one time purchase - and I can play the fashion game as often as I want, entering the change process with different costumes and hats and stuff, but never finalize the results - just make screenshots of it - and then cancel. Actually, I think I will do that, it is a way to see what I can do with my characters without to pay all the time.

petraeus1

Nerouyn wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

If we're going to compare games - Guild Wars 2 also has free content updates, offers an (admittedly RNG-based) chance to get appearance change in Tyria and allows you to convert in-game currency to Gems.

True on all counts.

petraeus1 wrote: »

We can endlessly compare games: WoW charges for all these things and a subfee, EQ2, LOTRO and STO are F2P yet offer appearance change for in-game gold.

It does not get us very far.

It's the only reasonable standard by which to judge. It's called free market economics. Consumers look at what's available from different vendors and at what prices and choose how to spend their money accordingly.

If I see services/items in this game which cost more than double what they do in others, I'm going to regard them as overpriced.

Likewise, if I see ESO offering things for free which some other games charge for, like hairstyle changes which I mentioned (though you have to buy the styles), I'm going to see that as generous.

petraeus1 wrote: »

Many games however use a cash shop to complement their income because they lack a box price, or because they don't ask money for content updates, or because they don't have a subfee. ESO however has all of those, albeit the subfee is not imposed on anyone.

Yes ESO has an optional subscription but it being optional makes ESO effectively B2P, which GW2 also was until relatively recently. That makes it a good game for comparison in my books.

As far as subscribers go, a single month subscription will earn you 1500 crowns. Buying the regular hairstyle pack only costs 1000 crowns. So subscribe for one month and you've got enough for all the regular hairstyles plus a few of the fancier ones, should you want them.

That said, I really am not a huge fan of cash shops. Especially not in games with a subscription. But putting aside the really expensive and hopefully rarely needed race, name and full appearance change options, the parlor seems relatively generous to me - to both those who do and don't subscribe.

You are of course right that comparing games is one of the more reasonable ways to judge the game's practices - what I was getting at is that practices vary wildly: when you look at a P2P game like WoW you might think ESO is generous, but when you come from a F2P title that offers appearance change for in-game gold you're like: 10$ for every character?

That's why I try to look at the overall picture: game quality, cash shop pricing and overall business model. And then I notice that ESO charges for pretty much anything that is chargeable. To give another example, GW2 in the past has released dungeons, Fractals and raid wings for free, in ESO we pay 15$ for two dungeons (ignoring the current Crown sale for a moment).

Of course all these things are optional, and charging for continued development is fine, but the Crown Store is not very cheap either. It rubs me the wrong way, and has me worried about how many more categories the Crown Store will have 6 months from now.

Nerouyn

petraeus1 wrote: »

That's why I try to look at the overall picture: game quality, cash shop pricing and overall business model

.

In terms of amount of content, voice acting, graphics and art quality etc. ESO is possibly the "best" and most expensive ever made. SWTOR is probably somewhere in the same vicinity. That's precisely why I'm much less comfortable comparing ESO to some cheapo ftp game than I am to other triple A titles like GW2.

Appearance change in ESO and in those others game also isn't exactly the same thing. ESO's relatively expensive $10 appearance change is to change physical characteristics - body shape / height, facial structure. Hairstyles, markings and adornments can be changed without cost, once you own the style.

So for 'everyday' personal use (i.e. excluding race / name / appearance change) I have to see the parlor system as quite generous relative to comparable titles.

The only caveat to that is issues with the character creator. I had great trouble making characters I liked the look of when I started playing. They could look fine in the creator but much less so when I got them out in the world. So I literally spent almost two full months creating and deleting characters (after getting them into the world) to get looks I like. Because of the one delete a day limit.

I imagine most players didn't and can distinctly recall reading many complaints about this issue in these forums back at launch. And it was commonly cited as a reason why an appearance change option was needed. So charging players $10 (per character) to fix a problem which might only exist because of problems with the game's character creation system - that could really feel like gouging.

petraeus1 wrote: »

Of course all these things are optional, and charging for continued development is fine, but the Crown Store is not very cheap either. It rubs me the wrong way, and has me worried about how many more categories the Crown Store will have 6 months from now.

I agree completely. I think many items in the crown store (eg. race / name / appearance) are over-priced. Some of them quite outrageously. That glowing kitty mount was $40+. Crazy. I can only assume the game has a healthy whale population they're trying to milk.

A good image to leave on.

Snowstrider

dalodir wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

I miss the old days of MMOs where all these things and player housing were standard with a subscription model. Cash shops are just garbage as my thread from 2 years ago said.

This.

You may have had to pay a subscription to play but you could earn all items through playing the game. When an expansion comes you may have to buy that expansion to enjoy its content. But at least thats it, you pay your way and you dont feel like theres a carrot on the stick constantly encouraging you to spend even more money.

Id rather pay for a subscription and the dlc albeit at a higher cost and receive Full game content.

I also find it hard to overly invest in vanity/cosmetic items for a game thats suffering from so many issues that have failed to be resolved. I need confidence that theres some longevity to those items.

Yeah but eso wasnt worth paying for. We never got any content when it had subscription and it failed to deliver The quality you expect from a sub

vamp_emily

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

My comment is as follows: "I WANT ZOS TO WORK AND SPEND RESOURCES (aka money) TO GIVE US SOMETHING FOR FREE (i.e. without us spending money)! HURR-DURR!"

You said people misinterpreted your words, you don't want it for "free", you want it to cost gold. 'Cause you know, ZOS employees can pay bills and stuff with an in-game currency.
I suppose that when you work you don't want a wage, right?

ZOS please charge this guy a convenience fee of $2.00 each time he hops on his mount. So you guys can put food on the table.

Where did you pull that quote from?

With the benefit of doubt, I would presume that you intended to quote another person on this thread; however I was unable to find any post that matched your quote. Thus I believe that you have violated the code of conduct of the forums be "quoting" another user and changing the content of that quote with the intent of hostility.

If you really did mean to (mis)quote me, then you have seriously misunderstood the content of my posts.

I can't even find the post, so I guess I did mis-quote. I thought you said:

I suppose that when you work you don't want a wage, right?

I think we all do pay for the game, and most active players pay for DLCs or subscribe. I am sure their wages are covered.

Snowstrider

petraeus1 wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

As Rich once said, you know you don't have to be here right?

Wow! Did he really say that ?!
So, he is very confident about the game .Good to know.
Edit: Or is he challenging us?

The guy to whom he answered that was extremly rude for not much reason though. It's dangerous to take things out of context!

He was not extremely rude, he asked about the console issues in a topic that was casually about Rich and how he plays the game. It was off-topic, sure, and it was a complaint, yes.

But then again, reading all of the issues console users have had since Dark Brotherhood and not receiving any developer comment on the issues, but to see a developer comment like 20 times in a casual thread - I can understand the frustration.

Xbox player here... The game is a mess now on console,you cant even go into orsinium...
Constant crashes and loading screens, takes long to load npcs,mobs and players...
The low framerate...
Zos should seriosly give out free crowns as an apology to the paying customers.
We deserve an apology and quality,If We are put up with this madness and overpriced crown store items We should get something for The mess We have been put up with.

But i guess Zos cares more about money than us