Official Feedback Thread for Nightblades

bowmanz607

Xeniph wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

No regen while moving in stealth????????
As a stamina Nightblade I use cloak as escape and as a defensive skill. This is everything we have.

You will regenerate Stamina just fine while moving in Shadow Cloak and if you don't Sneak.
Stamina regeneration while Sneaking clearly a broken mechanic that you should not depend on and most certainly it's not 'everything you have'.

Too many Nightblade scrubs these days.

While I can appreciate your opinion, you in fact have no clue whether this was intended or not.

Regenerating stamina while moving in stealth changed to doing so a year after release. It has been what we currently see for the same amount of time.

Now when the change happened there were actually quite a few threads asking if it was intended or not, with zero response. In fact I myself have reported it many times, just looking for clarification. However only the devs know if this behavior was intended or not.

Regardless, it has been this way for just as long as it wasn't. Making the current situation an actual nerf, without documentation or an explanation. Now complaining that something was nerfed is perfectly reasonable, especially if you have no idea whether is was a fix, or an intended change. Communication goes a long way here.

So no, it is not clearly a broken mechanic. That may be your opinion, which you have every right to have, but the fact is you don't know. Nor is it imbalanced or op, in regards to broken. It's a simple quality of life change or the reversal of, for the stealth play style. So of coarse we will all adjust if we have to. But I think the point here is communication and documentation of changes, intended or not has to be improved.

Now, if looking for clarification and or complaining about something being taken away with no documentation and generally trying to have a constructive discussion while trying to defend ones class or play style is considered being a scrub. Sign me the hell up.

i agree with this. I wanted to say it but didnt want to type it lol. Another point as to why it was not "clearly broken" is that you could only achieve regen while sneaking if you had enough reduced cost and regen. So it seemed like zos was saying you can regen while in sneak if you spec to do so. A glass canon with low regen or low reduced cost can not currently regen while in sneak. Again, making it seem like you needed to spec to do so.

bowmanz607

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, Please listen.

All magical players will have 100 points in elemental expert now. ults that do magic damage hits 25 percent harder and ofc all other magica based damage.

All magica players will now have 100 points in cp tree that reduce physical damage.

Proxi det and mage/inner light.x2 keena and alchemist. kaboom

Stamina users are left out.

No regen while moving in stealth????????
As a stamina Nightblade I use cloak as escape and as a defensive skill. This is everything we have.

Evasion and blur do not stack and they need tweaking
If cloak is going to stay this way look into Evasion and blur and it's morphs. they can be buffed or changed.
....Or increase cloak 2-3 seconds
Make killer's blade stamina based and make it do physical damage.
Infact since magical players will have 100 points in elemental expert now and ults that do magic damage hits 25 percent harder, stamina should have the same option.
A way to morph ults do physical damage so we can have 100 points in Mighty that do the same.

maybe there is something I missed but I wanna play stamina.

I can easy change my stam nightblade into a magica nightblade and be OP. Just check out deltia's video from PTS as a qucik example, but I don't want to run with a stick.

The part about making killers blade a stamina morph. Do you think it will help stamina nb who already has aviable executes will win so much from it? Executioner and even steel tornado is superior to killers blade..

only because they are physical damage. if killers blade was physical damage i would take that over both other options. It will be back to practically an instant death if it is landed on a low health target while giving health and crit. not to mention the animation is quicker if you dont cancel your attacks properly.

Miwerton

Still not a single response from the devs at all.

What are they afraid of looking at the potential damage they are doing, or just ignoring everything of constructive feedback while thinking theyre delusional thoughts that every descion they make is great.

WolfingHour

@ZOS_GinaBruno since you guys didn't get a chance to address Siphoning Attacks in Eso Live, could you ask/persuade/bribe the devs to reply to some of the issues highlighted in this thread?

Chocolate treats work wonders with IT staff. Trust me on this.

Master_Kas

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, Please listen.

All magical players will have 100 points in elemental expert now. ults that do magic damage hits 25 percent harder and ofc all other magica based damage.

All magica players will now have 100 points in cp tree that reduce physical damage.

Proxi det and mage/inner light.x2 keena and alchemist. kaboom

Stamina users are left out.

No regen while moving in stealth????????
As a stamina Nightblade I use cloak as escape and as a defensive skill. This is everything we have.

Evasion and blur do not stack and they need tweaking
If cloak is going to stay this way look into Evasion and blur and it's morphs. they can be buffed or changed.
....Or increase cloak 2-3 seconds
Make killer's blade stamina based and make it do physical damage.
Infact since magical players will have 100 points in elemental expert now and ults that do magic damage hits 25 percent harder, stamina should have the same option.
A way to morph ults do physical damage so we can have 100 points in Mighty that do the same.

maybe there is something I missed but I wanna play stamina.

I can easy change my stam nightblade into a magica nightblade and be OP. Just check out deltia's video from PTS as a qucik example, but I don't want to run with a stick.

The part about making killers blade a stamina morph. Do you think it will help stamina nb who already has aviable executes will win so much from it? Executioner and even steel tornado is superior to killers blade..

only because they are physical damage. if killers blade was physical damage i would take that over both other options. It will be back to practically an instant death if it is landed on a low health target while giving health and crit. not to mention the animation is quicker if you dont cancel your attacks properly.

Executioner still starts at 50% health so I'd still use it over kb.

I just dont think another execute is what nbs need after the cloak nerf / magelight buff
But I see your point

Lava_Croft

Xeniph wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

No regen while moving in stealth????????
As a stamina Nightblade I use cloak as escape and as a defensive skill. This is everything we have.

You will regenerate Stamina just fine while moving in Shadow Cloak and if you don't Sneak.
Stamina regeneration while Sneaking clearly a broken mechanic that you should not depend on and most certainly it's not 'everything you have'.

Too many Nightblade scrubs these days.

While I can appreciate your opinion, you in fact have no clue whether this was intended or not.

Regenerating stamina while moving in stealth changed to doing so a year after release. It has been what we currently see for the same amount of time.

Now when the change happened there were actually quite a few threads asking if it was intended or not, with zero response. In fact I myself have reported it many times, just looking for clarification. However only the devs know if this behavior was intended or not.

Regardless, it has been this way for just as long as it wasn't. Making the current situation an actual nerf, without documentation or an explanation. Now complaining that something was nerfed is perfectly reasonable, especially if you have no idea whether is was a fix, or an intended change. Communication goes a long way here.

So no, it is not clearly a broken mechanic. That may be your opinion, which you have every right to have, but the fact is you don't know. Nor is it imbalanced or op, in regards to broken. It's a simple quality of life change or the reversal of, for the stealth play style. So of coarse we will all adjust if we have to. But I think the point here is communication and documentation of changes, intended or not has to be improved.

Now, if looking for clarification and or complaining about something being taken away with no documentation and generally trying to have a constructive discussion while trying to defend ones class or play style is considered being a scrub. Sign me the hell up.

Keep gimping yourself by depending on bugs and calling the fixing of a bug a nerf.

Zabus

Please keep siphoning strikes the way it currently is on live. I honestly don't see why you want to nerf stamina nb DPS (considering it pulls the lowest parse) and NB tanks with this change. Siphoning proc'ing from dots is needed in order to sustain resources in dungeons(especially vWGT&vICP/vMA). You already consume way too much stamina dpsing, blocking, healing, rolling, and having no regen while blocking in order to justify another loss in resources. The only conceivable way to get resources back while tanking is animation canceling light attacks with block while you rely on dots to proc for more sustain. And then you have to use those same resources you just got from light attacking to keep yourself up if you take a hit while dropping block for a split second.

If it's been in the game this long, I'm not really sure why all of a sudden it's an issue that needs to be fixed. At this rate we're just going to see stam nightblades disappear from dungeons, and all tanks rerolling FOTM mDK. You barely see anything other than a DK tank every once in a blue moon, and now you just want to make it worse.

khele23eb17_ESO

Miwerton wrote: »

Still not a single response from the devs at all.

What are they afraid of looking at the potential damage they are doing, or just ignoring everything of constructive feedback while thinking theyre delusional thoughts that every descion they make is great.

Threads like this are a forum control tool. You have all the unhappy people contained in one neat place instead of having the whole forum plastered with 'the f... you doing ZOS?' threads.

Miwerton

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Still not a single response from the devs at all.

What are they afraid of looking at the potential damage they are doing, or just ignoring everything of constructive feedback while thinking theyre delusional thoughts that every descion they make is great.

Threads like this are a forum control tool. You have all the unhappy people contained in one neat place instead of having the whole forum plastered with 'the f... you doing ZOS?' threads.

So in other words theyre way of selecting what feedback they want to hear, and ignoring everything else, making the zos combat team as effienct as, actually dont really have any good comparison, they took the the prize for terrible work.

At this point they might as well give us a creation kit and let us make an edit file out of it, since they have said 'Eso is a singleplayer with MMo cappabilities' well so is skyrim with the correct mods, lets us try to fix it since they clearly are incappable of it.

Dissentinel

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Reduced the bonus movement speed from the Major Expedition buff category to 30% from 40%.

what a horrible decision ...
please dont do this. especially as a passive we should have "Increased" sneak speeds as a passive, a set armor for thieves guild increasing sneak speeds, or even a potion granting 90% increased speed.

you guys allready deleted and removed the fast sneak speeds we had, you did it without explanation of what was wrong with it.
and you STILL have no answer as to how its cheating or even why you think fast sneak speeds is bad.
many many people were very angry about it, and to be honest it was horrible that it could even be imagined let alone done.
but, here now again we see that you have removed even More of our sneak speeds and even just "movement speed" ingeneral is now being made slower.
horrible, just horrible.
speechless to think that you actually "Favor" slowing us down more and more and more, and more ...

First of all, there are already plenty of ways to increase sneak speed.
1. There already is an ability that increases sneak speed under the Nightblade skill trees. That's Concealed Weapon. It increases your movement speed whenever you have it slotted.
2. Night's Silence set. It makes you take no penalty to speed while sneaking.
3. Double Take doesn't take you out of stealth and still increases your movement speed.
4. Invisibility Potions don't make you lose speed. You could also use speed potions and then enter stealth, but at that point you might as well use Rapids.

ZOS explained their reasoning behind this during the most recent ESO Live. I suggest you go and watch that.

lathbury

promoting build diversity so any class can do any role so why nerf funnel health?

Lava_Croft

lathbury wrote: »

promoting build diversity so any class can do any role so why nerf funnel health?

There's more to Nightblade healing than spamming Funnel Health. Build diversity only suffers from an ability that is as powerful as Funnel Health.

mr_wazzabi

Lava_Croft wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

promoting build diversity so any class can do any role so why nerf funnel health?

There's more to Nightblade healing than spamming Funnel Health. Build diversity only suffers from an ability that is as powerful as Funnel Health.

It makes nigtblade healer's most powerful heal half as strong. Nightblade healers should heal mainly through their own abilities, not with the resto staff. The arguement tht it kills diversity is valid because we now must rely on resto staff like other classes besides templar.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Gonna repeat this here since it bears Mentioning,

1. Shadow Cloak and its morphs already had plenty of counters before. no nerf needed.
2. is there a ability that cancels a DK's flappy wings or green dragon blood or a templars ability to heal or a sorc's ability to use hardened ward or bolt for 5 secs, and then can be held off indefinitely...hello...I thought not...
3. magelight, the inner light morphs abilities now are the same on radiant magelight, get 10% more spell crit and now when casted get the Might of the guild passive that give Empower(20% more damage), and you get to detect enemies and have a 50%+ nerf to sneak damage and now also locks out a class ability for Nightblades for 5 secs, which Shadow line skill passives are tied to and with dark cloak the damage mitigation is also tied too. this also means that Nightblades with Shadowy Disguise cannot cast cloak for more crit and now that DOTs are not purged via cloak that they cannot even be bypassed when Shadow Cloak has been locked out of usage. How stupid can the Dev's be to institute something so horrible.. what were they thinking ?? all because people refuse to use the counters that already existed and cry like babies that they get ganked, hell I get ganked too..you dont hear me calling for Nerf's or locking out class abilities..Magelight is now so Over powered that any Magicka class would be out of their mind not to use..its even better than Entropy and that is higher in the Mages guild skill line..
4. since the Cloak ability can be indefinitely locked out, by casting magelight every 4 secs, this also means that the veiled strike (and its morphs) used in conjunction with cloak can no longer be used to stun opponents..another nerf..
5. all this and that anyone can get Magelight since it is a level 1 ability for the Mages Guild can now fully negate a class skill means that the game is now broken..
6. ZOS is listening to the whiners of this game way to much that refuse to slot counters and L2P vs nightblades.

I can keep going if you want, i can put atleast two more points down off the top of my head, (1. toggling magelight will grant empower again, leading to one-shot builds is just one, 2. AvA skill rank requirements will be lowered with this patch as well and many people will have access to Revealing flare skill now as well) but #'s 2 & 3 is way more than enough for this to be reversed..

fix it ZOS

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_KaiSchober

PS- Piercing Mark should also not cause Shadow Cloak to be unusable either..

Link- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2696084/#Comment_2696084

Junkogen

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Gonna repeat this here since it bears Mentioning,

1. Shadow Cloak and its morphs already had plenty of counters before. no nerf needed.
2. is there a ability that cancels a DK's flappy wings or green dragon blood or a templars ability to heal or a sorc's ability to use hardened ward or bolt for 5 secs, and then can be held off indefinitely...hello...I thought not...
3. magelight, the inner light morphs abilities now are the same on radiant magelight, get 10% more spell crit and now when casted get the Might of the guild passive that give Empower(20% more damage), and you get to detect enemies and have a 50%+ nerf to sneak damage and now also locks out a class ability for Nightblades for 5 secs, which Shadow line skill passives are tied to and with dark cloak the damage mitigation is also tied too. this also means that Nightblades with Shadowy Disguise cannot cast cloak for more crit and now that DOTs are not purged via cloak that they cannot even be bypassed when Shadow Cloak has been locked out of usage. How stupid can the Dev's be to institute something so horrible.. what were they thinking ?? all because people refuse to use the counters that already existed and cry like babies that they get ganked, hell I get ganked too..you dont here me calling for Nerf's or locking out class abilities..Magelight is now so Over powered that any Magicka class would be out of their mind not to use..its even better than Entropy and that is higher in the Mages guild skill line..
4. since the Cloak ability can be indefinitely locked out, by casting magelight every 4 secs, this also means that the veiled strike (and its morphs) used in conjunction with cloak can no longer be used to stun opponents..another nerf..
5. all this and that anyone can get Magelight since it is a level 1 ability for the Mages Guild can now fully negate a class skill means that the game is now broken..
6. ZOS is listening to the whiners of this game way to much that refuse to slot counters and L2P vs nightblades.

I can keep going if you want, i can put atleast two more points down off the top of my head, (1. toggling magelight will grant empower again, leading to one-shot builds is just one, 2. AvA skill rank requirements will be lowered with this patch as well and many people will have access to Revealing flare skill now as well) but #'s 2 & 3 is way more than enough for this to be reversed..

fix it ZOS

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_KaiSchober

PS- Piercing Mark should also not cause Shadow Cloak to be unusable either..

Link- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2696084/#Comment_2696084

QFT,

The NB passives are too intertwined with Cloak for them to keep the lockout part of Magelight for the live release. I don't understand why they're overreacting like this. Whining is OP and needs a nerf.

Xeniph

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Gonna repeat this here since it bears Mentioning,

1. Shadow Cloak and its morphs already had plenty of counters before. no nerf needed.
2. is there a ability that cancels a DK's flappy wings or green dragon blood or a templars ability to heal or a sorc's ability to use hardened ward or bolt for 5 secs, and then can be held off indefinitely...hello...I thought not...
3. magelight, the inner light morphs abilities now are the same on radiant magelight, get 10% more spell crit and now when casted get the Might of the guild passive that give Empower(20% more damage), and you get to detect enemies and have a 50%+ nerf to sneak damage and now also locks out a class ability for Nightblades for 5 secs, which Shadow line skill passives are tied to and with dark cloak the damage mitigation is also tied too. this also means that Nightblades with Shadowy Disguise cannot cast cloak for more crit and now that DOTs are not purged via cloak that they cannot even be bypassed when Shadow Cloak has been locked out of usage. How stupid can the Dev's be to institute something so horrible.. what were they thinking ?? all because people refuse to use the counters that already existed and cry like babies that they get ganked, hell I get ganked too..you dont here me calling for Nerf's or locking out class abilities..Magelight is now so Over powered that any Magicka class would be out of their mind not to use..its even better than Entropy and that is higher in the Mages guild skill line..
4. since the Cloak ability can be indefinitely locked out, by casting magelight every 4 secs, this also means that the veiled strike (and its morphs) used in conjunction with cloak can no longer be used to stun opponents..another nerf..
5. all this and that anyone can get Magelight since it is a level 1 ability for the Mages Guild can now fully negate a class skill means that the game is now broken..
6. ZOS is listening to the whiners of this game way to much that refuse to slot counters and L2P vs nightblades.

I can keep going if you want, i can put atleast two more points down off the top of my head, (1. toggling magelight will grant empower again, leading to one-shot builds is just one, 2. AvA skill rank requirements will be lowered with this patch as well and many people will have access to Revealing flare skill now as well) but #'s 2 & 3 is way more than enough for this to be reversed..

fix it ZOS

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_KaiSchober

PS- Piercing Mark should also not cause Shadow Cloak to be unusable either..

Link- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2696084/#Comment_2696084

1) I do think Cloak did need a bit of a nerf. This is the complete wrong direction though. I wonder what happened to the whole " No magicka regen while cloaked" thing went, since it never even made it to testing.

2) 100% correct here, and if there was the cries would be endless. People fail to see that once the devs start down this road, the likelihood that other abilities get this treatment is nigh on 100%. Again, wrong direction, given this games combat system.

3) Correct again. Though I am sure it will get toned down, I'm fairly confident it won't be enough.

4) Single most heavy handed nerf for a class to date. It's not just cloak that has been hit, but since the ability is so closely tied to many of the other abilities and passives available to various builds, it fundamentally changes the way the class plays and feels.

5) Agree here. Magelight is also far and away better than revealing flare. Generally speaking, the Mages and Fighters guilds are heavily pve skewed. Putting one of the bets pvp abilities in either line, over maybe the support or assault line makes little to no sense.

6) Though this can be said of most complaints versus all classes. The real issue is, they are letting the community drive game balance decisions too much, imo.


I think the majority of these issues stem from the team, since we all know they can't play their game well, are talking to the wrong damn people. Or to be more specific, too small of a sample set. They regularly meet with pve/pve/dueling guilds, but I fear we don't have enough, if any, ganking/solo/small scale representation.

Edit* I forgot to address your Mark Target point. You are 100% correct here. There is so much trolling opportunity here it's downright frightening, and this is from a NB who uses the ability a lot.

Lava_Croft

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

promoting build diversity so any class can do any role so why nerf funnel health?

There's more to Nightblade healing than spamming Funnel Health. Build diversity only suffers from an ability that is as powerful as Funnel Health.

It makes nigtblade healer's most powerful heal half as strong. Nightblade healers should heal mainly through their own abilities, not with the resto staff. The arguement tht it kills diversity is valid because we now must rely on resto staff like other classes besides templar.

That's what the Restoration Staff is for and that's why Templars are Templars. Nightblades are simply too good at healing if you consider the other roles they can play and at which they are also really good. Roll a Templar if it bothers you.

It's not like Funnel Health post nerf is a useless healing skill. Or that Sap Essence is a useless healing skill. Or that Refreshing Path is a useless healing skill. Get creative and do something else besides spam Funnel Health.

Lifecode666

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_KaiSchober

Hello everyone! Hope your weekend was awsome.

As you all can see the respons to the nightblade changes is not good. I am telling you right now that the cloak change has destroyed the stealthplay of the stamina nightblade.

Please change it.

Cinbri

I suggested to increase minor protection buff from 8% to 12%.

Atomsk27

Cinbri wrote: »

I suggested to increase minor protection buff from 8% to 12%.

Combined with shades the 8% is enough. All that needs to be changed is the magelight buff. The 5 second no cloak is too much. Lower the time and allow cloak to activate the passives. Same with mark, let the player use cloak but still be visible only to the person that used mark.

The_Saint

Please fix critchance of Dark shades... with ~70% spellcrit they only have ~35%...
Its reported long time ago

Nysticc

The cloak lockout from mark target has to go! removing the purge from cloak is more than enough. Please reconsider this change, do not kill our one defensive ability!

Master_Kas

Nysticc wrote: »

The cloak lockout from mark target has to go! removing the purge from cloak is more than enough. Please reconsider this change, do not kill our one defensive ability!

Yup, if this change goes through that mark from all legolases in sneak hinders you from cloaking for 25+ seconds from 50 meters range I won't even bother to slot cloak

pcripper39ub17_ESO

I used to be a Nightblade like you, then I took a Radiant Magelight to the patchnotes....

pmn100b16_ESO

The radiant changes pale in significance to the mark target changes imo.

Sav72

Lets see what notes we get tomorrow. If there are no major changes to this insanity, then I guess its time to move on.....

pcripper39ub17_ESO

Sav72 wrote: »

Lets see what notes we get tomorrow. If there are no major changes to this insanity, then I guess its time to move on.....

Agreed. I've been subbed to this game since launch. Might be time to save 15 bucks a month.

Mojmir

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

The radiant changes pale in significance to the mark target changes imo.

this makes no sense, mark doesn't even aggro

pmn100b16_ESO

Mojmir wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

The radiant changes pale in significance to the mark target changes imo.

this makes no sense, mark doesn't even aggro

you can't cloak with mark on you, so you're left out in the open unstealthed for everyone to see. Magelight will stop you cloaking for 5 seconds, mark will stop you cloaking for about 30.

Lava_Croft

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

The radiant changes pale in significance to the mark target changes imo.

this makes no sense, mark doesn't even aggro

you can't cloak with mark on you, so you're left out in the open unstealthed for everyone to see. Magelight will stop you cloaking for 5 seconds, mark will stop you cloaking for about 30.

Snort cocaine all night while trying to come up with creative skill changes to fill the patch notes and you get things like the buff to Mark Target, an already incredibly powerful skill.