Official Feedback Thread for Nightblades

Junkogen

I think the obvious goal here is to not only hurt NBs, but do it enough to get people to reroll a different class. Not only does this get more diversity in Cyrodiil, but it also has the potential to generate income through the Crown Store as people don't want to wait to level up riding skills and all that. I think there's more to this than just nerfing NBs. This, to me, is very much a business decision.

Also, does anyone know if Mark and Magelight can be purged or did they nerf that, too?

Junkogen

I also agree that the trigger of the passives should at least work. They can't just build the class around cloaking and then pull the rug out from under them. I guess they have the power to do that, but that's not really fair. The developers seem to like to make these drastic, rushed changes. Again, it's either a business decision to generate Crown Store revenue or it's just really sloppy and lazy. The world may never know.....

Xeniph

Well, after numerous attempts at trying to open a dialog between the Nightblade community and the devs. I have finally come to the conclusion that no real conversation is going to be had before these really bad changes hit.

Thus I have resorted to protesting the only way I can, with real money. I won't pay for a product that no longer delivers what it used to.

Sad really, the game used to have so much potential regarding my preferred play style.

CP5

@GreenSoup2HoT, and if they get rid of my ability to drop these traps off of walls into breaches since it now needs to be 'cast' for the ranged trap, they made the skill into an interesting, weaker skill.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Xeniph wrote: »

Well, after numerous attempts at trying to open a dialog between the Nightblade community and the devs. I have finally come to the conclusion that no real conversation is going to be had before these really bad changes hit.

Thus I have resorted to protesting the only way I can, with real money. I won't pay for a product that no longer delivers what it used to.

Sad really, the game used to have so much potential regarding my preferred play style.

Yup,

I just Dropped my sub for PS4, PC was already dropped because of Carnage non fix but locking out a Class Skill like Shadow Cloak from PvP is way more of a Valid reason..

Sparky617

i'm happy that SA got a tiny little boost back up, but i'm very, very disappointed in the Dark Cloak change..... I relied on that as my only purge.....now it just suppresses the DOT.... That's pretty lame.

Ethoir

Sparky617 wrote: »

i'm happy that SA got a tiny little boost back up, but i'm very, very disappointed in the Dark Cloak change..... I relied on that as my only purge.....now it just suppresses the DOT.... That's pretty lame.

And if you get marked or magelight-ed and hit with a few weak DoTs (or a Fire Siege DoT), you are up a creek without a paddle. In PvP you'd have to fly with a group that can heal you. On your own, its harder to counter those DoT skills after being revealed (I'm looking at you, Wake Walker Archers and Iron Wheel Archers).

pcripper39ub17_ESO

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Well, after numerous attempts at trying to open a dialog between the Nightblade community and the devs. I have finally come to the conclusion that no real conversation is going to be had before these really bad changes hit.

Thus I have resorted to protesting the only way I can, with real money. I won't pay for a product that no longer delivers what it used to.

Sad really, the game used to have so much potential regarding my preferred play style.

Yup,

I just Dropped my sub for PS4, PC was already dropped because of Carnage non fix but locking out a Class Skill like Shadow Cloak from PvP is way more of a Valid reason..

Yep, been subbed since launch, just droped my sub today. Won't make them understand the frustration they caused, but at least I save 15 bucks a month.

davey1107

I would be on the same page as the last couple of posters...overall Thieves Guild,looks like a cash grab. Planning to let my sub run down and play off my orig $35 investment. Maybe next dlc, ZOS.

Nonpoint

People are going to have to vote with their wallets for ZOS to even begin to notice how truly displeased they are. Unfortunately I have a feeling that they won't notice much of an income drop even if every NB player that feels these changes are unjust drops sub and stays away from the Crown Store.

There are too many others out there that can't wait to buy the newest dress and mount reskin. Their expenditures will mask any loss from upset players boycotting the changes. If it was still PC only perhaps there would be a chance, but with the addition of consoles, the percentage of mindless money throwers increased exponentially.

Lava_Croft

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2701171/#Comment_2701171

pmn100b16_ESO wrote:

@ZOS_GinaBruno Mark Target locking NBs out of using cloak for its duration, is this intended? Or an unintended consequence from the changes to magelight?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That is intended, and follows the same concept as Magelight: you shouldn't be able to cloak if you are revealed. Once revealed, you shouldn't be able to re-cloak or re-stealth.

So there you go, its intended. Let the trolling commense I guess.

So basically I will have one skill that I won't be able to use that much because half of my time is spent being Marked by pro snipers from 50 meters distance.

@pmn100b16_ESO @bowmanz607 : Piercing Mark, as stated on the tooltip, only reveals you to the caster. However, Clouding Swarm has been broken since forever, so entering Clouding Swarm while having Piercing Mark on you will indeed reveal you to everybody.

Derra

They can´t be serious about that. I thought the magelight reveal was too long but piercing mark? I have no words for that...

Someone make a topic about this and get the forumblades. That´s gamebreaking and should and should under no circumstance go live. Get torches and pitchforks

LegendaryChef

Lava_Croft wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2701171/#Comment_2701171

pmn100b16_ESO wrote:

@ZOS_GinaBruno Mark Target locking NBs out of using cloak for its duration, is this intended? Or an unintended consequence from the changes to magelight?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That is intended, and follows the same concept as Magelight: you shouldn't be able to cloak if you are revealed. Once revealed, you shouldn't be able to re-cloak or re-stealth.

So there you go, its intended. Let the trolling commense I guess.

So basically I will have one skill that I won't be able to use that much because half of my time is spent being Marked by pro snipers from 50 meters distance.

@pmn100b16_ESO @bowmanz607 : Piercing Mark, as stated on the tooltip, only reveals you to the caster. However, Clouding Swarm has been broken since forever, so entering Clouding Swarm while having Piercing Mark on you will indeed reveal you to everybody.

Kris, let's unite and fight this.

Iyas

Derra wrote: »

They can´t be serious about that. I thought the magelight reveal was too long but piercing mark? I have no words for that...

Someone make a topic about this and get the forumblades. That´s gamebreaking and should and should under no circumstance go live. Get torches and pitchforks

And this from a sorc who hates cloaky cloak nbs

LegendaryChef

Iyas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

They can´t be serious about that. I thought the magelight reveal was too long but piercing mark? I have no words for that...

Someone make a topic about this and get the forumblades. That´s gamebreaking and should and should under no circumstance go live. Get torches and pitchforks

And this from a sorc who hates cloaky cloak nbs

Only because he wants me to play my NB next patch

Maulkin

They have gone completely overboard with the Cloak nerfs. And this comes from a Sorc too.

The only setting where I found cloak to be OP and rage inducing was in IC where a NB could skip all mobs, find a target, attack with impunity and if the gank attempt didn't go well seek refuge among the NPCs.

Cloak in open world Cyrodiil did not really need a nerf imo.

Helluin

Xeniph wrote: »

Well, after numerous attempts at trying to open a dialog between the Nightblade community and the devs. I have finally come to the conclusion that no real conversation is going to be had before these really bad changes hit.

Such an huge changement should have had an explanation without being ignored during last ESO Live but any other explanation would be welcome.

The problem is: how can you have a proper constructive conversation in a forum that lies in these conditions?

The majority of the posts we can read in general are flammatory, insulting towards ZOS team and other players, full of anger, etc.
Such hate towards players using other classes seems a religion war of fundamentalists.
Code of conduct is not applied and the moderation is too really soft, making this forum, but for few areas, not enjoyable at all.
It's normal in every MMORPG official forum to see such situations but in this one too many things are tollerated.
That's why many players ignore completely the official forum but for patch notes and news and a forum like Tamriel Foundry or Reddit are better places to discuss mechanics, game, etc.
Who joins the official forum more during PTS to help providing feedbacks understands clearly that, but for few matters, is no more the correct place to provide feedbacks and it is better to avoid it at all.

How can ZOS team discern a good constructive post, even with a different opinion, from the many rants and whines?
It happens but it's rare.


The feeling about several changements for Nightblade is that we are wasting just our time providing feedbacks.
Many NB's players agree that something was required to be done for Shadow Cloak but maybe in another way.

So feedbacks seems ignored just to respect the release deadlines.
Many huge changements were discussed before PTS to collect feedbacks, in this situation it was not done.

What makes players like you Xeniph and many others upset is that there is no explanation for something similar but especially that an iconic class of TES is changing into something else.
It's like an archer without a bow.
Is this because of the many rants, because of a combat design decision, because of performances in PvP, because of the Thieves guild PvE mechanic?
We don't know.

Why do passive skills like Improved Sneak (Medium Armor) or Stealthy (Bosmer and Khajiit) have no effect on Magelight?

A changement to "permacloak" was expected and good but when @Wrobel asked for our feedbacks during the last months of 2015, there were many suggestions able to address this without changing a class into something else and without any additional compensation.
The same approach that it was used for Streak and Dodge Roll could have been used for Shadow Cloak (with a cost based on max magicka to avoid issues between stamina and magicka builds).
Why, instead of this or a set against invisibility (like Shieldbreaker against Damage Shields), do we have a different solution like it always happens?
What decided instead has a really big impact on several other skills, passive skills (NB, Bosmer and Khajiit) and an ultimate.
The additional effects are bigger than the changement itself for invisibility and sneak.
Why is this not explained?
In PvP, Inner Magelight and especially Radiant Magelight are two skills already used for many buff, this additional mechanic is too much for two really common skills with only buff and no malus at all.
Also players focused on other classes consider this mechanic too harsh.

Another huge issue is:
where is the balancement going? Which is the goal of the combat team in general?
How do you want to redesign a stealthy/sneaky iconic TES class into something else?
If the bonus of this class are just from the first attack, this useless in both PvE and PvP.
In PvE the sneak/invisibility bonus are already useless nowadays.

We see too many times a meta shifting instead of a proper balancement.
While there are players simply switching their main character, there are also other ones who prefer to stick to a class they like as gameplay.

It was said that big changements are made step by step while this is not a step by step approach.

An explanation about all this or at least to know that this changement will be monitored would surely help giving players the reasons of something so far completely unexplained.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_KaiSchober , @Wrobel could you please give us just an explanation to all this during next ESO Live or in forum at least?

It would be really appreciated, thank you very much.

pmn100b16_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2701171/#Comment_2701171

pmn100b16_ESO wrote:

@ZOS_GinaBruno Mark Target locking NBs out of using cloak for its duration, is this intended? Or an unintended consequence from the changes to magelight?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That is intended, and follows the same concept as Magelight: you shouldn't be able to cloak if you are revealed. Once revealed, you shouldn't be able to re-cloak or re-stealth.

So there you go, its intended. Let the trolling commense I guess.

So basically I will have one skill that I won't be able to use that much because half of my time is spent being Marked by pro snipers from 50 meters distance.

@pmn100b16_ESO @bowmanz607 : Piercing Mark, as stated on the tooltip, only reveals you to the caster. However, Clouding Swarm has been broken since forever, so entering Clouding Swarm while having Piercing Mark on you will indeed reveal you to everybody.

Yeah its like a ranged magelight with 50 meter range and 30 second duration that can be refreshed at anytime. I honestly don't think they know what they've done here. Wasn't even a mention of it in the patch notes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can you get an explaination on this for us, in fact skip that, when will we get a fix?

Lava_Croft

At this point they might as well add the debuff on the caster of Mark Target back. You spam Piercing Mark? You get the all the debuffs yourself too.

Sav72

I wonder if they even thought out, of the consequences of this huge impact to a class and skill, and play style.

NB's will try to adjust, but, if you want to play a non stealth class why bother with NB. Therefore people will leave, unsub or reroll.

Reroll is ESO's only benefit, in this insanity of a patch.

Ever since DAoC, I have always played a stealth class, stealth class is now over in ESO, and in a way I am glad, was getting tired of the ESO, BS, now there is a real reason to move on.

Samphaa

Isn't it funny that the more you play a game, learn about it and the creators of it, the more you start to dislike it and leave.

Ffolks

I can adapt to most of the changes and still enjoy the class. However, the fact that Surprise Attack still has a missing sound effect makes the class unplayable for me atm.

It's the little things that annoy me the most.

mr_wazzabi

Nonpoint wrote: »

People are going to have to vote with their wallets for ZOS to even begin to notice how truly displeased they are. Unfortunately I have a feeling that they won't notice much of an income drop even if every NB player that feels these changes are unjust drops sub and stays away from the Crown Store.

There are too many others out there that can't wait to buy the newest dress and mount reskin. Their expenditures will mask any loss from upset players boycotting the changes. If it was still PC only perhaps there would be a chance, but with the addition of consoles, the percentage of mindless money throwers increased exponentially.

Think you got a point here. Do you have any idea how many console players don't read the forums or research their build and only play the game?
A few nights ago i used group finder for the last dps to try wgt (big mistake). We got grouped up with an orc magicka dk who was a werewolf in heavy armour and had a max magicka of 21k!!! Safe to say we didn't get through the first boss...

It's players like this who have no clue how to play the game properly that will continue to feed zos, despite a large number of skilled players protesting. Players like this will be unaware of any nerfs/buffs and will continue to play as they always have, not noticing any differences, and worst of all, will continue to sub and buy crown store items to feed ZOS.

CtrlAltDlt

Sav72 wrote: »

I wonder if they even thought out, of the consequences of this huge impact to a class and skill, and play style.

NB's will try to adjust, but, if you want to play a non stealth class why bother with NB. Therefore people will leave, unsub or reroll.

Reroll is ESO's only benefit, in this insanity of a patch.

Ever since DAoC, I have always played a stealth class, stealth class is now over in ESO, and in a way I am glad, was getting tired of the ESO, BS, now there is a real reason to move on.

It is quite obvious by now that they don't. How long did they take to introduce a physical damage reduction cp star? Why is there only one ultimate that does physical damage? Why did they put such a set that is such hard counter to sorc shields and gets abused by bow players? Matter of fact why the *** did cloak remove dots? Negating a class designed around DOTs?

They dont know how to balance this game because they dont play it enough and in the conditions that we do.

It's sad.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Sav72 wrote: »

I wonder if they even thought out, of the consequences of this huge impact to a class and skill, and play style.

NB's will try to adjust, but, if you want to play a non stealth class why bother with NB. Therefore people will leave, unsub or reroll.

Reroll is ESO's only benefit, in this insanity of a patch.

Ever since DAoC, I have always played a stealth class, stealth class is now over in ESO, and in a way I am glad, was getting tired of the ESO, BS, now there is a real reason to move on.

Pretty much how I feel, also coming from years of DAoC. Camelot Unchained can't come soon enough. Even as it heads into Beta, CU already has exponentially clearer and better implemented design philosophies that have a much greater promise to effectively guide race/class/realm balance.

There is obviously a lot that goes on behind the scenes at ZOS that we know nothing about and which influences their decision-making. But, whatever those things are, the end results that percolate down to players too frequently appear arbitrary, reactionary, inconsistent, and either overblown (rapidly swinging metas and class identities) or underestimated (6 months for baby steps of changes) in ways that seem completely disconnected from how the game is experienced by its players.

NoS_smoke

I have put all my heart and soul into this NB. With these changes and the fact that they won't make PHYSICAL/POISON ULTIMATES for stamina classes, I don't think I can put anymore into it. I will not be forced into trying to gank and run off with rapid maneuvers. As my stamblade being my only character I think I too will let my subscription run out. ZOS has shown us (as well as stamsorc, and stamplar) that they do not listen to feedback. So they lost my monthly subscription if this hits in its current format. I am not sure what else to really do in the game. They don't make sense with the sets they put out (limiting diversity) and they are forcing my hand on how I should play.

whooligans

I just game back to the game, and frankly I'm astonished to see how the devs are still working the same way. They don't care about feedback, overnerf way too hard, not to mention the bugs that are still around in the game from launch. Looks like I will quit again soon.

Also, not 1 word from the devs in any of these threads, aka they just don't care.

Lava_Croft

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

There is obviously a lot that goes on behind the scenes at ZOS that we know nothing about an which influences their decision-making. But, whatever those things are, the end results that percolates down to players too frequently appear arbitrary, reactionary, inconsistent, and either overblown (rapidly swinging metas and class identities) or underestimated (6 months for baby steps of changes) in ways that seem completely disconnected from how the game actually players for its players.

This is one of the most important aspects that causes players to be toxic to ZOS and eventually toxic to each other. It's very sad that ZOS just does not can or want to see that this is the direct result of nothing but their own actions or lack thereof.

rfennell_ESO

Junkogen wrote: »

I think the obvious goal here is to not only hurt NBs, but do it enough to get people to reroll a different class. Not only does this get more diversity in Cyrodiil, but it also has the potential to generate income through the Crown Store as people don't want to wait to level up riding skills and all that. I think there's more to this than just nerfing NBs. This, to me, is very much a business decision.

Also, does anyone know if Mark and Magelight can be purged or did they nerf that, too?

They want to see how many deadric mines it takes to crash Cyrondil.

Xeniph

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2701171/#Comment_2701171

pmn100b16_ESO wrote:

@ZOS_GinaBruno Mark Target locking NBs out of using cloak for its duration, is this intended? Or an unintended consequence from the changes to magelight?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That is intended, and follows the same concept as Magelight: you shouldn't be able to cloak if you are revealed. Once revealed, you shouldn't be able to re-cloak or re-stealth.

So there you go, its intended. Let the trolling commense I guess.

So basically I will have one skill that I won't be able to use that much because half of my time is spent being Marked by pro snipers from 50 meters distance.

@pmn100b16_ESO @bowmanz607 : Piercing Mark, as stated on the tooltip, only reveals you to the caster. However, Clouding Swarm has been broken since forever, so entering Clouding Swarm while having Piercing Mark on you will indeed reveal you to everybody.

Yeah its like a ranged magelight with 50 meter range and 30 second duration that can be refreshed at anytime. I honestly don't think they know what they've done here. Wasn't even a mention of it in the patch notes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can you get an explaination on this for us, in fact skip that, when will we get a fix?

Here ya go.


@ZOS_GinaBruno Mark Target locking NBs out of using cloak for its duration, is this intended? Or an unintended consequence from the changes to magelight?
"That is intended, and follows the same concept as Magelight: you shouldn't be able to cloak if you are revealed. Once revealed, you shouldn't be able to re-cloak or re-stealth."

Gina's response in this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2701171#Comment_2701171

That right there was the last straw for me. The tone also suggests that she "wanted to say"...Ever! Muhahah!. But probably felt that would not be professional.

It's quite clear at this point, the devs do not play this game like the rest of us. I mean really, 50m reveal, 30 second duration and applies a stealth/invisible lockout for the duration.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't they nerf detect pots for being "too good" a short while ago, from 30 seconds to 15?

And while I am at it how did we go from-

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2274406#Comment_2274406

To not being able to cast it at ALL. And that second bolded part, what the actual what? How is this "careful" in any way.
And I might add these changes were ALL added with no discussion or dialog whatsoever.