Shield Breaker - AKA "I win button"

Xeven

Rylana wrote: »

Why are you talking trash to someone?

Are you purposefully ignoring what he said to provoke my response? I'm pretty sure you are.

apostate9

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

You're bawling again. Here's a hanky. Now learn to stop spamming shields when fighting shieldbreaker.

apostate9

Xeven wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

While I don't agree with your opinion about the set being OP, I do agree that it's not the solution.

Currently a Sorc can achieve 14-16k Hardened wards without sacrificing any dps. This gives them 30k-32k effective health, renders all crits and most bleed/dot damage moot. Tie that with the massive buff they got in 1.6 being able to apply a new shield over a damaged one, looking at it objectively, stacking is not the only issue.

No medium, let alone light armored person should have 30k+ health (14-16k of it being immune to so much stuff), in a zone where the average health pool sits around 16-22k, without significant investment into armor, health and survivability. Regardless of class, playstyle.

What pvp in this game needs is proper debuff and skill lockout abilities. Offensive purges, targeted silences, skill lockouts all immune to CC break. Allowing for skilled gameplay. Also, shields should not be able to attain such high numbers and be immune to anything or be able to be stacked or rewrote.

I completely agree with one poster I read propose shields being put on the current buff table. Ie.. Major shield, Minor shield and preventing them from being refreshed until they have expired.

You dont agree because there is no medium armor breaker set yet, and youre not getting dropped from balconies without ever seeing your attacker. It is absolutely obnoxious.

I think we agree this isnt the answer. Who said we even wanted to use shields? We have to. Give us something else. Im fine with that.

Armor.

Fixed. Oh wait...then you would have to make a (gasp) tactical choice. Welcome to ESO, you've finally arrived.

Xeven

Apparently you think that is my screenshot. It's not so your little jab at me is invalid.

I think the set is garbage, as do many, many, MANY others.

apostate9

Xeven wrote: »

Apparently you think that is my screenshot. It's not so your little jab at me is invalid.

I think the set is garbage, as do many, many, MANY others.

Keep thinking it then. Don't care.

Xeven

Its pretty clear that you do! You so mad at me. Stahp. Lol.

Makkir

Xeven wrote: »

Apparently you think that is my screenshot. It's not so your little jab at me is invalid.

I think the set is garbage, as do many, many, MANY others.

I think it's garbage too. I think it should be toned down or should have a cooldown...doesn't mean I'm not going to find a way to adapt in the meantime. I am sure it'll get nerfed eventually.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Xeven wrote: »

Apparently you think that is my screenshot. It's not so your little jab at me is invalid.

I think the set is garbage, as do many, many, MANY others.

Instead of flame people is not better to try a solution to the problem?

"I think the set is garbage, as do many, many, MANY others." and many people think shield stacking is garbage.both are bad design and both need to be fixed not just shieldbreaker

Xeven

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Apparently you think that is my screenshot. It's not so your little jab at me is invalid.

I think the set is garbage, as do many, many, MANY others.

Instead of flame people is not better to try a solution to the problem?

"I think the set is garbage, as do many, many, MANY others." and many people think shield stacking is garbage.both are bad design and both need to be fixed not just shieldbreaker

Ive done nothing but support the removal of shield stacking, and even suggested the removal of shields with a LA buff. Possibly a magicka vigor morph etc etc etc.

No one can accuse me of being unreasonable. At least not if they actually read the thread.

Xeven

And for the record, I havent posted since page 2 of this thread because of all the butthurt. All the crying is mostly from butthurts that got wrecked in 1.6.

That is NOT the fault of Sorcs. Shields are to Sorcs what Cloak is to NB. It's what we got, so it's what we have to use.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Xeven wrote: »

And for the record, I havent posted since page 2 of this thread because of all the butthurt. All the crying is mostly from butthurts that got wrecked in 1.6.

That is NOT the fault of Sorcs. Shields are to Sorcs what Cloak is to NB. It's what we got, so it's what we have to use.

ye ok but shieldstacker don't have any counter while Cloak have many,is not like i can slot an ability that make me better against shieldstacker or something.The only counter is shieldbreaker but sadly this set add more problem than fix.

ThisOnePosts

Derra wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

Oh I wasn't questioning the thread, just pointing out that I don't see a DK Community Change Suggestions, Templar, or NB in your signature.. that's all. So I'm sensing there may be some legit bias here on your part.

If you only have one shield, it will deplete quick enough as long as you don't re-apply it. What's so complicated about that? How in the world can I run around Solo on my Sorc without shield stacking? It's very simple to deal with someone geared specifically for breaking shields... don't spam shields. Amazing.... brilliant! LOL

Really, it's simple... I am just getting the feeling that you want to shield stack to your heart's content and got very cozy with it being effective in all situations meanwhile there is no one thing in this game that should be effective in ALL situations or everyone will just go to that path... like the majority of Sorcs running around Cyrodiil atm minus myself when on my Sorc and a few others I know.. or people unaware of it which oh so many people are now.

My first character was a sorc, and that bias is toward making sure that the game holds to its design so I can run a stamina sorc and not be doing so with only one arm, but the thread has ideas that make the class as a whole something more than a shield spamming, bolt spamming, burst build that I personally dislike. My continued problem with this set is the shields you are given from others and the shields you synergize with to get.

I haven't seen anyone complain about the shield magma shell provides, but if you pick it up you could end up in a bad spot, and if someone gives you a shield at a bad time there is no way to decline it or quickly shed it. It won't be the bane of everyone's existence if they get a random shield but outside from healing, shields are one of the support things that you can't really control and getting hit with irrestiable damage for that is not good design in my opinion.

Being shielded at the wrong time is not something that is really a concern to anyone but you it seems. I rarely ever get shields. Also many groups don't have healers in them.. while some do yes, that healer should be smart enough to know not to spam shields and if they are going to heal... then HEAL. It doesn't affect all of the powerful healing abilities, only the shield.

So which burstheal do non templar healers have access too apart from healing ward? - Would you mind enlightening me? Because you need a burstheal with smarthealing to outheal some of the incoming dmg in pvp.

Don´t dare telling me blessing of restoration. A heal that critheals less than a templars BOL noncrit while also not being a smartheal but a cone (thats useless when rooted and influenced by line of sight) does not meet the requirements.

Here's an idea. Look at the Resto Staff skill line, there's a few other options for ya right in front of your eyes when you're healing. I never said burst heals. But given nothing takes away from Magicka (like sprinting, blocking, etc..) except magicka abilities, as well as the vast amount of ways to get your Magicka and Magicka Recovery to ridiculous levels... not to mention lowering the costs, etc.. with CP... you'll be able to spam heals on people. A group of 4 of us took down a district boss earlier with such a healer. FOUR OF US. No one using shields. We had 2 sorcs and 2 nbs in our group, and no the sorcs weren't shield stacking. I don't primarily heal, I find it a bit too relaxed for my taste but I know there are some great healers on these forums who can give you some tips on healing if all you do is make a post and ask (or if you get lucky and they see your post here).

If you are trying to match the healing of a Templar, then make a Templar. Templar's can't match a Sorc's quick escape, can they? No, they can't.

Dude you´re so full of yourself. I´ve asked about pvp. Healing IN PVP AS I STATED IN MY POST as a non templar was not even close to a templar before the healing ward nerf and shieldbreaker. Now i´m still waiting for you to show me an option to do so on my sorc bc i see none vaible currently.
I´ve played the main healer in a small grp for all of 1.6. So i know what i´m talking about. You stated you do not. So thanks for your opinion but you´re clearly a jon snow kinda guy in this case.

IF YOU NEED HEALING WARD TO BE A COMPETENT HEALER, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. I said I'm not a healer.. however I am in GROUPS WITH healers all the time and RARELY do I see one of them spamming shields on me...especially in PVP. Maybe you should go check a beginner's guide for healing, since apparently we all know when we get buffed with shields and many others seem to be doing it, why can't you???????? WHY CAN I FIGURE OUT MY DPS, BUT YOU CAN'T FIGURE OUT YOUR HEALING?

CAPS.... just in case you had a hard time reading again.

Septimus_Magna

This set is so incredible OP, I have absolutely no clue what ZOS was thinking letting this go live. Somehow this set makes the normally weak light attacks do about 10% direct health damage to every magicka build in pvp. Its fine that there's a counter to shield stacking but why is the unresistable dmg not effected by the Cyrodiil dmg reduction and why is there no cool down like every other dmg proc from sets?

Fighting NB with shieldbreaker is the most impossible task as a sorc:

1. You cant sustain health because each weave does at least 10% health dmg on top of to shields.
2. You cant escape and LoS because the NB can spam ambush and always stay on top of you.
3. You cant hit the NB because he cloaks every 6 seconds and you're too busy healing yourself to stay alive.
4. And if you use detect pots the NB just dodges the cfrags and sustains with LoS and Vigor, after that he just light attacks you to death

The lack of response regarding this topic perfectly demonstrates ZOS' way of dealing with problems, just look the other way and pretend everything is fine..

Septimus_Magna

apostate9 wrote: »

You're bawling again. Here's a hanky. Now learn to stop spamming shields when fighting shieldbreaker.

Hahaha, this is the best tip ever! Might as well jump in a lake with Slaughterfish because the result will be the same.

If you'd actually played a sorc in pvp you would be well aware of the fact that you have about 3 seconds to live without shields, especially against sneaky stam builds.

Its not like the damage stops if you dont have shields up against a shieldbreaker, the extra effect might not proc but you will still take full dmg from the light attacks plus dmg abilities.

k2blader

Putting aside the fact that most people supporting the set are of the "stick it to sorcs cuz they deserve it" type, for whatever reason (I'm still confused about why unless they constantly let themselves get farmed by skilled/CP'd sorcs of a certain build)..

The set does the following things that are just plain wrong:

- It renders utterly useless the sorc class's primary core defense ability without requiring any form of skill from the user.
- It makes Annulment or its morphs useless because it basically results in giving yourself a death sentence.
- Related to the above, it makes the new Armor Master set useless for light armor/magicka builds.
- It endangers anyone who receives Healing Ward, as Healing Ward falls on people other than the caster half or more of the time.

apostate9

Xeven wrote: »

Its pretty clear that you do! You so mad at me. Stahp. Lol.

Whatever.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Playe.... Who am I kidding bad sorc players need to stop with the crying about shield breaker already. If you are a good sorc player this set will not effect you that much and on top of that shield break is designed for 1 use only which means any 1 who is wearing it is specificly hunting down sorcs only. Cause shield break is designed to deal extra damage only to shields that isn't very useful again a NB or templar or even a sorc who doesn't heavly depend shields to live un-like most who I been seeing in this thread. So if some one who is using a shield breaker set runs into some one who isn't using shields is gonna be at major dis-avantage cause the player there fighting most likely has hunding rage or seducer or the new meta Molag keen.

So enough with the crying about this 1 purpose set cause reguardless of it players will still find ways to make shield breaker builds cause shields are not OP but shield stacking is and the mechanic of stacking 5 or 6 shields at once has to go.

chevalierknight

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Its all most like a potion that counter your class oh wait its not

k2blader

chevalierknight wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Its all most like a potion that counter your class oh wait its not

Imagine if there was an armor set with a 5-piece bonus that allowed the wearer to see cloaked NBs all the time.

Would you be so lackadaisical about it?

Masuimi

This set is abused too much by people running petrify + low damage bows. Its pretty lame yo

Masuimi

k2blader wrote: »

chevalierknight wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Its all most like a potion that counter your class oh wait its not

Imagine if there was an armor set with a 5-piece bonus that allowed the wearer to see cloaked NBs all the time.

Would you be so lackadaisical about it?

and this

killingspreeb16_ESO

k2blader wrote: »

chevalierknight wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Its all most like a potion that counter your class oh wait its not

Imagine if there was an armor set with a 5-piece bonus that allowed the wearer to see cloaked NBs all the time.

Would you be so lackadaisical about it?

there is a difference cloak have counters,while shieldstacking does not,but i can agree this set is bad design but currently is only counter ZOS give to us

Masuimi

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

chevalierknight wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Its all most like a potion that counter your class oh wait its not

Imagine if there was an armor set with a 5-piece bonus that allowed the wearer to see cloaked NBs all the time.

Would you be so lackadaisical about it?

there is a difference cloak have counters,while shieldstacking does not,but i can agree this set is bad design but currently is only counter ZOS give to us

CC + burst is a counter to shield stacking. Especially with how wonky the CC immunity timers are u can basically chain that ***.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Masuimi wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

chevalierknight wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Its all most like a potion that counter your class oh wait its not

Imagine if there was an armor set with a 5-piece bonus that allowed the wearer to see cloaked NBs all the time.

Would you be so lackadaisical about it?

there is a difference cloak have counters,while shieldstacking does not,but i can agree this set is bad design but currently is only counter ZOS give to us

CC + burst is a counter to shield stacking. Especially with how wonky the CC immunity timers are u can basically chain that ***.

in 1.6 maybe,right now the burst is not good enough to kill the sorc in a cc,the sorc need to messed up everything to die right now(if youre not playing with shieldbreaker)

chevalierknight

k2blader wrote: »

chevalierknight wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Its all most like a potion that counter your class oh wait its not

Imagine if there was an armor set with a 5-piece bonus that allowed the wearer to see cloaked NBs all the time.

Would you be so lackadaisical about it?

Lol what fail logic there a potion that lets 5+ people see cloak try agien

Wreuntzylla

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This set is so incredible OP, I have absolutely no clue what ZOS was thinking letting this go live. Somehow this set makes the normally weak light attacks do about 10% direct health damage to every magicka build in pvp.

Sorcs with 20k health? I had ~12k health pre-patch, not sure what it is now... So I could pump my magicka to over 30k.

Shield breaker would not be a problem is it was only 10%. Right? I mean, eating 5-6 sec of light attacks doesn't seem to be a shield breaker issue...

CP5

k2blader wrote: »

Putting aside the fact that most people supporting the set are of the "stick it to sorcs cuz they deserve it" type, for whatever reason (I'm still confused about why unless they constantly let themselves get farmed by skilled/CP'd sorcs of a certain build)..

The set does the following things that are just plain wrong:

- It renders utterly useless the sorc class's primary core defense ability without requiring any form of skill from the user.
- It makes Annulment or its morphs useless because it basically results in giving yourself a death sentence.
- Related to the above, it makes the new Armor Master set useless for light armor/magicka builds.
- It endangers anyone who receives Healing Ward, as Healing Ward falls on people other than the caster half or more of the time.

No, bad. No logical statements here, only REVENGE!

k2blader

CP5 wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Putting aside the fact that most people supporting the set are of the "stick it to sorcs cuz they deserve it" type, for whatever reason (I'm still confused about why unless they constantly let themselves get farmed by skilled/CP'd sorcs of a certain build)..

The set does the following things that are just plain wrong:

- It renders utterly useless the sorc class's primary core defense ability without requiring any form of skill from the user.
- It makes Annulment or its morphs useless because it basically results in giving yourself a death sentence.
- Related to the above, it makes the new Armor Master set useless for light armor/magicka builds.
- It endangers anyone who receives Healing Ward, as Healing Ward falls on people other than the caster half or more of the time.

No, bad. No logical statements here, only REVENGE!

Well I can try and hope some folks regain their reasonable-ness, if that's a word. :-)

Though I've sort of given up on that in this game.

[edit]
Wanted to add I'd bet most of the sorcs these people hated have left the game, rerolled or are no longer magicka builds.

eliisra

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Playe.... Who am I kidding bad sorc players need to stop with the crying about shield breaker already. If you are a good sorc player this set will not effect you that much and on top of that shield break is designed for 1 use only which means any 1 who is wearing it is specificly hunting down sorcs only.

Right...

Do you know how much I'm dying to shield breaker on my NB? To survive all the damn sorc's nuking me hard I need to use Dampen Magic + Healing Ward or I'm just dead. I cant get Cloak of when the entire district is filled with ground AoE that snares, boss AoE that snares, caltrops that snares + detection pot users and cant even dodge because bugged snares.

So I block and pop my shields with a sliver of life left than bam...some little *** hiding on top if a building kills me with Shield Breaker. You would think he'd go for the sorc right? But apparently more fun to wreck the guy that doesn't have a 9k Hardened Ward lol.

k2blader

eliisra wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Playe.... Who am I kidding bad sorc players need to stop with the crying about shield breaker already. If you are a good sorc player this set will not effect you that much and on top of that shield break is designed for 1 use only which means any 1 who is wearing it is specificly hunting down sorcs only.

Right...

Do you know how much I'm dying to shield breaker on my NB? To survive all the damn sorc's nuking me hard I need to use Dampen Magic + Healing Ward or I'm just dead. I cant get Cloak of when the entire district is filled with ground AoE that snares, boss AoE that snares, caltrops that snares + detection pot users and cant even dodge because bugged snares.

So I block and pop my shields with a sliver of life left than bam...some little *** hiding on top if a building kills me with Shield Breaker. You would think he'd go for the sorc right? But apparently more fun to wreck the guy that doesn't have a 9k Hardened Ward lol.

I don't get it. The 9k Hardened Ward wouldn't help the sorc either.