Shield Breaker - AKA "I win button"

Xeven

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Kas

since I want to be lazy and run shields on my templar, I think spreading this is a good way to prevent too many stam users running shieldbreaker:

Kas wrote: »

drop usual damage spells (curse etc) to make room on bars.
immovable pots and immovable on one bar.
run degenderation, rapid regen, quick siphon, elemental drain and just weave light attacks + force pulse and streak offensively for stuns. maybe even crit surge?

iirc this was a very successful but not too popular duel build in 1.5. i tried it on my templar (no streak causes problems agaisnt mobile enemies because you cannot chase) and the health + magicka sustain while not blocking is insane. with immovable up it feels liek you're entirely unkillable. stamina is easily enough to keep casting immovable when no pot greats the buff.

i'm pretty sure it's gonna be even more efficent on my sorc. however, the 1vX potential is absolutely terrible. the whole idea of the build is to apply buffs and be able to remain on the offensive permanently. once you face multiple competent enemies, the health sustain is not enough anymore. once you cannot keep up the offense anymore, your defense suffers as well. liekwise, the build is bad vs reflect and enemies that can sustain frequent purges (especially templars) who can just remove ele drain/degeneration/quick siphon with a single cast

however, if someone specifically uses this set to counter your playstlye. this, in my opining, is a way to counter theirs 1v1

PS: you can also sustain your health without the full anount of defbuffs. ele drain + quick siphon + degeneration + rapid regen is overkill and casting 4 spells means you lose out on some force pulses to spam

from as little as i have seen so far, this destroys stamina user with shieldbreaker fairly well

Archmage1

Shield Breaker = Bad Design

...c'mon ZOS

tplink3r1

Sorcs are mad cause now they need more than 15k health.

Xeven

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Sorcs are mad cause now they need more than 15k health.

Every single PvP samina build is also rolling with 15k health. Can I get a Medium Armor breaker set?

tplink3r1

Xeven wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Sorcs are mad cause now they need more than 15k health.

Every single PvP samina build is also rolling with 15k health. Can I get a Medium Armor breaker set?

Theres is one already, its called roll dodge nerf.

Angarato

you have 1 post crying about the damage nerf. another about shield stacking. and now this 1. its hilarious
you can never please everyone. your playstyle got adjusted. adapt or die.

leepalmer95

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Sorcs are mad cause now they need more than 15k health.

Every single PvP samina build is also rolling with 15k health. Can I get a Medium Armor breaker set?

Theres is one already, its called roll dodge nerf.

Thats called bad game design fix, you was never mean't to be able to roll dodge forever you was always meant to time them.

Xeven

Angarato wrote: »

you have 1 post crying about the damage nerf. another about shield stacking. and now this 1. its hilarious
you can never please everyone. your playstyle got adjusted. adapt or die.

I hope youre not talking to me. I never complained about the damage nerf and have only supported the removal of shield stacking.

Quote me, and link the thread. You can't because you're mistaken. You must have me confused with someone else.

Kobaal

Xeven wrote: »

Oh look! ZOS put in an "I win" button against Magicka Sorcs.

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

Zerg Breaker set
Healing Breaker set
Heavy Armor Breaker set
Scroll Carrier Breaker set
Cloak Breaker set
Medium Armor Breaker set
etc...
etc...
etc...

We can all run around light attacking each other like idiots until we all log out for good.

Xeven

This is not my screenshot. I do have a similar experience though. I was decimated from a balcony. Never even saw my attacker. Was half dead before I even realised I was getting hit.

Awesome.

Warraxx

WE NEED THE "LOL" BUTTON BACK, S.T.A.T.!!!

tplink3r1

leepalmer95 wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Sorcs are mad cause now they need more than 15k health.

Every single PvP samina build is also rolling with 15k health. Can I get a Medium Armor breaker set?

Theres is one already, its called roll dodge nerf.

Thats called bad game design fix, you was never mean't to be able to roll dodge forever you was always meant to time them.

And so are shields.

Xeven

tplink3r1 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Sorcs are mad cause now they need more than 15k health.

Every single PvP samina build is also rolling with 15k health. Can I get a Medium Armor breaker set?

Theres is one already, its called roll dodge nerf.

Thats called bad game design fix, you was never mean't to be able to roll dodge forever you was always meant to time them.

And so are shields.

Ok so at least we can agree that the game design is bad, lol.

Ishammael

I don't understand why people are so spiteful about skills, sets, and gameplay. The logic of "well you were OP before so I get to be now" is utterly toxic.

Shield breaker set is atrocious design. It is a reactionary approach to the fundamental problem of shield stacking. People defending the set are being totally disingenuous. I win buttons are garbage.

olsborg

Give the procc a 4 second cooldown like most of the other sets, zos is dumb.

RinaldoGandolphi

Ishammael wrote: »

I don't understand why people are so spiteful about skills, sets, and gameplay. The logic of "well you were OP before so I get to be now" is utterly toxic.

Shield breaker set is atrocious design. It is a reactionary approach to the fundamental problem of shield stacking. People defending the set are being totally disingenuous. I win buttons are garbage.

Quoted for truth

I just wonder who was the genuius that came up with this bright idea for an armor set.

All they had to do was make all shields give "Major Shield" and then you wouldn't be able to stack them anymore problem solved just like Major Sorcery, Major Edurance, etc, instead they just give any noob an "I Win Button" against a shielded light armor user.

This doesn't just effect Sorc's it also hurts Caster DK's, Templars, and NB who just happen to wear light armor too.

Angarato

Xeven wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

you have 1 post crying about the damage nerf. another about shield stacking. and now this 1. its hilarious
you can never please everyone. your playstyle got adjusted. adapt or die.

I hope youre not talking to me. I never complained about the damage nerf and have only supported the removal of shield stacking.

Quote me, and link the thread. You can't because you're mistaken. You must have me confused with someone else.

sorry i meant the you as in "the community" or rather "the forums" not you personally. worded it badly.

Xeven

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

Chrlynsch

I like the set

Armitas

They need to stop double nerfing things. Nerf and then examine the results. Releasing nerfs and a counters at the same time is highly likely to go too far in one direction. That is not how you align something. You tweak then measure, then tweak then measure. You don't cut a board 2 feet long by guessing at both ends. You measure, cut once, then measure again. The moment you go too far you have ruined the board.

_adhyffbjjjf12

Everything should have a counter, so how does a magix based sorcerer in light armor defend against someone who has shield breaker?

danno8

olsborg wrote: »

Give the procc a 4 second cooldown like most of the other sets, zos is dumb.

Well if they did that, basic health regeneration would be able to recover most of that health back over 4 seconds.

No the set needs to be tweaked. ZoS will probably make it so you need to do a full heavy attack for the bonus. I actually think that would be balanced given the extra time required and vulnerability exposed by heavy attacking.

Hiero_Glyph

Shield stacking is a problem but the reason why Annulment and Conjured Ward are problematic is because of their duration. I mean, Sun Shield is a short-term form of damage mitigation and requires constant upkeep which lowers the user's DPS. Compare that to Conjured Ward and unless the user takes significant damage they have no reason to reapply it. Worse yet they can simply reapply it early whereas Blazing Shield offers no benefit doing the same thing. I agree that ZoS forced Sorcs into this situation but they need to allow them to heal efficiently, reduce the shield duration, or prevent casting it before the shield expires. All of these solutions are superior to what has been offered as a counter to shields.

Wycks

Xeven wrote: »

This is not counter play. This is toxic game design. This is an I win button.

This is bad developers who look at the short term and don't realize that developing for casual newbs removes a strong playerbase that actually cares.

ScruffyWhiskers

How do you get hit by 5 light attacks in a row?

Love the little icon with the sorc getting hit in the chest. LOL

Xeniph

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

While I don't agree with your opinion about the set being OP, I do agree that it's not the solution.

Currently a Sorc can achieve 14-16k Hardened wards without sacrificing any dps. This gives them 30k-32k effective health, renders all crits and most bleed/dot damage moot. Tie that with the massive buff they got in 1.6 being able to apply a new shield over a damaged one, looking at it objectively, stacking is not the only issue.

No medium, let alone light armored person should have 30k+ health (14-16k of it being immune to so much stuff), in a zone where the average health pool sits around 16-22k, without significant investment into armor, health and survivability. Regardless of class, playstyle.

What pvp in this game needs is proper debuff and skill lockout abilities. Offensive purges, targeted silences, skill lockouts all immune to CC break. Allowing for skilled gameplay. Also, shields should not be able to attain such high numbers and be immune to anything or be able to be stacked or rewrote.

I completely agree with one poster I read propose shields being put on the current buff table. Ie.. Major shield, Minor shield and preventing them from being refreshed until they have expired.

Xeven

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

How do you get hit by 5 light attacks in a row?

Love the little icon with the sorc getting hit in the chest. LOL

Clearly you've never used a weighted bow.

I'm glad you 'avin a giggow m8.

Mr_Nobody

The picture does not include approximately 120k damage mitigated by constant shield stacking.

I call it fair.

Xeven

Xeniph wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

While I don't agree with your opinion about the set being OP, I do agree that it's not the solution.

Currently a Sorc can achieve 14-16k Hardened wards without sacrificing any dps. This gives them 30k-32k effective health, renders all crits and most bleed/dot damage moot. Tie that with the massive buff they got in 1.6 being able to apply a new shield over a damaged one, looking at it objectively, stacking is not the only issue.

No medium, let alone light armored person should have 30k+ health (14-16k of it being immune to so much stuff), in a zone where the average health pool sits around 16-22k, without significant investment into armor, health and survivability. Regardless of class, playstyle.

What pvp in this game needs is proper debuff and skill lockout abilities. Offensive purges, targeted silences, skill lockouts all immune to CC break. Allowing for skilled gameplay. Also, shields should not be able to attain such high numbers and be immune to anything or be able to be stacked or rewrote.

I completely agree with one poster I read propose shields being put on the current buff table. Ie.. Major shield, Minor shield and preventing them from being refreshed until they have expired.

You dont agree because there is no medium armor breaker set yet, and youre not getting dropped from balconies without ever seeing your attacker. It is absolutely obnoxious.

I think we agree this isnt the answer. Who said we even wanted to use shields? We have to. Give us something else. Im fine with that.

leepalmer95

Xeniph wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Lets talk about what a light armor shield guy can do against this. In a 1v1 he would have to run an instant burst heal and keep pressure on the guy. Sorcs dont have one so they'll now be forcd to use resto. Armor doesnt help. He CANNOT drop his shield because then he will get wrecked with everything else. It's a 1 button hard counter, I win button.

What about all the bow users camping spawn, sniping anyone with a shield? What do we do about that? If this set stays like this, Light Armor will die in PvP, and with it, Magicka Builds will die as well.

Remove shield stacking.

Remove this set, make it have a cooldown, or give it a shield debuff instead.

Or I tell you what... Make Light mitigation equal to Medium, remove all shields, and give us a magicka Vigor morph. I'll roll with that...

but this... this gives us zero options...

While I don't agree with your opinion about the set being OP, I do agree that it's not the solution.

Currently a Sorc can achieve 14-16k Hardened wards without sacrificing any dps. This gives them 30k-32k effective health, renders all crits and most bleed/dot damage moot. Tie that with the massive buff they got in 1.6 being able to apply a new shield over a damaged one, looking at it objectively, stacking is not the only issue.

No medium, let alone light armored person should have 30k+ health (14-16k of it being immune to so much stuff), in a zone where the average health pool sits around 16-22k, without significant investment into armor, health and survivability. Regardless of class, playstyle.

What pvp in this game needs is proper debuff and skill lockout abilities. Offensive purges, targeted silences, skill lockouts all immune to CC break. Allowing for skilled gameplay. Also, shields should not be able to attain such high numbers and be immune to anything or be able to be stacked or rewrote.

I completely agree with one poster I read propose shields being put on the current buff table. Ie.. Major shield, Minor shield and preventing them from being refreshed until they have expired.

I love how people make these hardened ward numbers up xD

They stack magicka by giving up spell dmg and sustain because hardened ward is a sorc only defence. They don't have 30k hp...