Sorcerer - Lack of stamina morphs

exiledtyrant

I would like give some perspective as to why crystal blast, encase, and the pets are popping up a lot as unused morphs.

With crystal blast you are wasting 1+ seconds( crystal shard cast time bug still not addressedv) to do a small radius aoe that amounts to about as much damage and radius as velocious curse which is instant. In that time you are waiting for the curse you could be stacking elemental wall, liquid lightning ( the skill buffed specifically for sorc class based aoe), spamming elemental ring ( which should outperform crystal blast since it's instant with comparable damage), or even setting up a magicka detonation which hits for full damage. Even fire rune does moderately good aoe with a dot component or you can use 4 second stun utility, and it empowers your next ability. These stack up together much better and cover much more area than trying to cast crystal blast. It tries to fill a niche that isn't needed. A stam sorc on the other hand can use one of the melee weapon aoes and the persistent bow aoe together, maybe caltrops.

Encase should be a go to skill for melee. You see the duel wield ruffian passive and almost 6 seconds of immobilize and think instant melee synergy. The ugly truth is that in pve the cone is awkward and mobs still manage to slide around while encased. In pvp the cone is slow to fire( you can walk from the middle of the encase radius to either side and it will miss), has issues with different elevations , it is constantly purged in large group fights, rolled out of constantly, and you can bunny hop over it. It's only reliable application comes when someone is running directly towards you. Honestly it's an all around bad skill. Shattering prison also tries to give aoe when it's damage only scales up to noticeable levels after encasing multiple units close together ( that can't break the prison early). Magicka aoe is pretty much covered however which makes it a likely candidate. If nothing else reliability of the skill needs to be adjusted.

Lastly The twilight and clan fear health based morphs are more melee oriented because melee bonuses and play style are geared more towards health. Magicka is the new health for damage shield users who are discouraged from stacking health or being hit in the first place. They don't have to worry about stacking as much mitigation as melee which makes health useful nor do magicka based set bonuses and armor types offer enough mitigation for health stacking to be beneficial over building towards shields.

Erock25

Glurin wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

The real problem here, @Varicite, is that you talk about fairness and equality across classes, but then you dictate that the only possible solution is to switch to stamina morphs and belittle anyone who disagrees as being selfish. You are completely unwilling to even consider anyone else's opinion, let alone the flaws in your own.

Equality does not mean everybody has to have the same number of all the same stuff. Balance does not mean stamina should get everything. Fairness does not mean you should get what someone else has just because you want it.

I know you are a min/maxer and that min/maxers tend to have difficulty with the idea of there being more than one effective approach to any given problem, but that doesn't give you the right to dismiss the opinions of others in the manner you have been.

What I want @glurin to understand and anyone else against some stamina options, is that I myself am not asking for a lot of change. What change I'm asking for also ties into tweaks for the entire class and all playstyles. It isn't about giving Sorc an exact equal amount of stam options as NB/DK/Temp, it is about giving the Sorc stam options that allow it to still play and feel like a Sorc in a stamina build. Below is my list of proposed changes from this topic on Sorceror uggestions for overall class balance. I'm listing all of them because yes, certain magicka morphs get changed/removed but other skills make up for it.

The objectives I tried to fulfill in my suggested changes

• Give Magicka DPS builds more utility to a group and raid
• Give Magicka DPS builds a way to increase their damage if they are allowed to reliably stay in melee range
• Give Stamina DPS builds some synergy with their Sorcerer skills
• Give some love to the Healer and Tank Sorc
• Suggest changes that are realistic in concept and require low effort to execute

Power Surge - Duration increased to 40 seconds (to 43 seconds on Rank4). Provides yourself with Minor Prophecy (3% spell crit)

• I think Power Surge has been marginalized by Entropy, especially considering the Mage's Guild - Might of the Guild Passive. The heal component of Surge is now just an ancillary effect in my opinion because of how DOTs activate the cooldown and I believe extended duration is the easiest way to make Power Surge a valid contender to Entropy.

Critical Surge - Cost reduced by 40%. Provides yourself with Major Endurance (+20% stam regen) for 10 seconds.

• Just as Power Surge is marginalized by Entropy, I believe Critical Surge is inferior to the 2h skill Rally. Yes we can access this Major Brutality without using 2h and that is an advantage, but I still think this skill needs more oomph. Currently Critical Surge has a HUGE cost for a stamina build, and a 40% reduction seems fair. Also, Sorc do not have access to any in combat stamina regen and Major Endurance is a great fit here. It is important that this spell does not switch to a stamina morph because I feel it is important that stamina builds have access to magicka dumps that do not scale on spell power/total magicka.

Volatile Familiar - Changed back to instant cast. Increase the melee damage the pet does by 100% (it still isn't much).

• This morph is completely useless without it being instant cast. This should be the second pet (besides Twilight) go to option for a magicka Sorc.

Clannfear - Reduce cast time to 0.5 seconds and change this to a stamina morph.

• My preferred change for this ability may be impossible, but if it is possible, it would add a layer of fun and useful gameplay for a Tank Sorc. I think if you manually command this pet to attack anything (default binding is Y + left click), it should also taunt it regardless of who is on the threat table. This pet has decent HP, but it isn't going to hold up long against most enemies (especially bosses) in group PVE content so it will not be overpowered.

Daedric Prey - Increase the additional pet damage to 50% and refocus all pets to attack this target.

• I do not think using Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward to get the most out of your pets is a useful mechanic. For starters, it means a lot of your skill bar and morph choices need to be dedicated to pets. Also Hardened Ward is a MUST HAVE for any magicka Sorc who wants to PVP and it would be very helpful to be able to spec Hardened Ward instead of Empowered Ward and still get the most out of your pets.

Bound Aegis - Also provides Minor Mending buff (8% healing done increase)

• A small buff that gives Sorc a reason to be a healer.

Empowered Ward - This morph will cost magicka but will now scale on health.

• I think this is important for a stamina Sorc to have a damage shield. The reason we are scaling on health here is so that this skill is stronger for tanks. A stamina build with a stamina scaling shield would be over the top with their ability to dodge roll, break free, block and have more mitigations than a light armor user underneath the damage shield. Keeping this morph as a magicka cost prevents high sustain stamina builds from spamming this spell and scaling it on health instead of magicka ensures that the shield will still be worth using even in a stamina build, which most likely will have close to a minimum in max magicka.

Crystal Blast - Melee range stamina morph that is just like Crystal Frag (minus the knockdown) and procs on activation of any skill that cost stamina. Does slightly less dmg than a magicka build Crystal Frag but also provides the Sorc and his group Minor Brutality (increase weapon damage by 5%) for 5 seconds.

• Provides a dmg stamina morph, keeps the Crystal proc gameplay consistent between builds, while giving the Sorc a minor group buff and Dark Deal heals.

Suppression Field - change the Minor Protection buff to a Major Protection buff.

• This has been nerfed too hard and needs a bit more group utility.

Exploitation Passive - Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Major Prophecy (10% spell crit) to a Sorcerer and his group (important it is group only so multiple Sorc would be needed to keep this running for the entire raid) for 5/10 seconds.

• Gives Sorc a strong reason to be a part of raids and groups.

Daedric Bomb (rename of Daedric Tomb) - Sorcerer places a Daedric Bomb on the ground (double the activation radius of a single mine) which takes 5 seconds to activate and when triggered, explodes for massive damage.

• The damage done here is the real question. It should be powerful because it takes coordination between the group and gives Sorc a reason to be in melee range.

Also Twilight needs to be no more than a 0.5 second cast. Considering that these pets die in some encounters and there is no reason not to reduce the cast time.

Anyways that is my list. What it boils down to is increasing pet damage slightly (Volatile doing more passive dmg), giving magicka Sorc a melee range DPS boost (that shouldn't affect PVP at all), giving useful group buffs to the Sorc that make them must haves for group PVE, and helping out the stam/healer/tank Sorc as well.

I can understand people being concerned that their build will suffer, but you have to understand that we aren't asking for a lot, and it should not be all negatives for a magicka build. I know there are people out there that say they like the current incarnation of Crystal Blast, but to me, Crystal Frag is an essential and class defining skill. Bringing that gameplay over to the stamina build gives Sorcs a reason to use something else besides just endless Wrecking Blows. Pets are a divisive topic, but like it or not, they are a unique part of the Sorc and giving a stamina/tank version of pet to the class helps give it a better identity. Sure, magicka users lose Clannfear but instead they get a higher DPS and instant cast Volatile Familiar. Finally, your pet dying in combat will actually be a good thing as it explodes for massive damage. Pet users lose their +pet dmg from Empowered Ward but gain just about all of it back in a higher buff to pet dmg in Daedric Prey.

Would these changes really be so bad for you that it is worth coming to a topic discussing this concept and complain over and over again?

Crystal Blast is fine as is. Switching it to stamina and redesigning it to work just like Fragments in melee range just wrecks it for magicka and hybrids while giving stamina a redundant DPS spam ability. Also, as far as I'm concerned, that random instant cast is toxic. Even with a full stamina build, I wouldn't use it because of that. Also, it already provides a group buff with the passive Exploitation. It might be better to put a weapon buff on that rather than Crystal Blast, which would as a side effect also open up every other Dark Magic skill.

A tank pet on the squishy builds makes more sense than a tank pet on the tanky builds.

It looks to me like you're arguing from a min/max perspective as well. Adjusting the game within that framework is what leads to necessary cookie cutter builds, not balance.

You know what I suggest gives sorc magicka dps, stamina dps, tank, and heals valid specs but oh yeah... Because I care about performance I'm definitely just trying to make everyone into a cookie cutter min/max build.

'it looks to me like you're arguing from a min/max perspective.' you saying that as if it is something negative means I will now learn to ignore all you say about sorc balance.

Mayrael

Okay lets give more staimna morphs to sorcs, we will have the same situation as year ago, just now everybody will run stamina not magica and next year we will add 3rdmagica morph so we can again reroll to magica... BOLTS AWAY...

Varicite

Mayrael wrote: »

Okay lets give more staimna morphs to sorcs, we will have the same situation as year ago, just now everybody will run stamina not magica and next year we will add 3rdmagica morph so we can again reroll to magica... BOLTS AWAY...

Because giving 1-2 damaging abilities to stamina sorcs is definitely going to make everybody who enjoys the magicka playstyle reroll immediately.

I wish people would stop spouting this ridiculous hyperbole.

@exiledtyrant That was a very insightful explanation about exactly why we decide to pick on these morphs, and why they are the lesser used morphs of those abilities.

I still feel that a stamina Sorc needs tools that provide not ONLY damage, but a secondary function (such as armor reduction, stam regeneration, etc), as the class passives themselves are fairly skewed toward magicka already.

Most other classes have access to at least one, if not both, of the physical damage utilities I mentioned through their class skill lines, which is one of the major reasons that Stamina sorcs fall behind.

There is NO armor reduction available traditionally through stamina DPS weapon skill lines, which leaves Sorc in a sort of dependent state upon other players to provide this debuff. This isn't so much of an issue in a Trials setting, as your tank will likely be providing it, but for solo / small group / PvP, there's definitely a noticeable lack.

For comparison, NBs get armor reduction AND major armor + resistance from their Surprise Attack, which is instant cast and does good damage. DKs get armor reduction through Flame Breath morph, which is not only a great DoT ability, but applies the debuff to multiple targets in a cone.

Templars do not have access to an armor reducer either, but they make up for this w/ access to excellent stamina sustain abilities.

Sorcs.. well, Sorcs have nothing, outside of Bound Armaments 8% stam + heavy attack damage.

This is one of the most glaring issues holding Sorcs back when it comes to physical melee DPS roles.

Cathexis

@mayreal this kind of thinking is generally unproductive and is what is plaguing this thread. I'll acknowledge there is a grain of truth in what you said ..but it is possible that maybe, just maybe, zen would be able to balance both builds to be equally valuable.

What this thread needs is not more arguing. It needs to cultivate new ideas and produce alternative solutions that might suit everyone.

What this thread doesn't need is more whining about how sorcerers shouldn't have viable stamina builds.

Cathexis

(@mayreal not that I'm saying you are whining)

exiledtyrant

Varicite wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Okay lets give more staimna morphs to sorcs, we will have the same situation as year ago, just now everybody will run stamina not magica and next year we will add 3rdmagica morph so we can again reroll to magica... BOLTS AWAY...

Because giving 1-2 damaging abilities to stamina sorcs is definitely going to make everybody who enjoys the magicka playstyle reroll immediately.

I wish people would stop spouting this ridiculous hyperbole.

@exiledtyrant That was a very insightful explanation about exactly why we decide to pick on these morphs, and why they are the lesser used morphs of those abilities.

I still feel that a stamina Sorc needs tools that provide not ONLY damage, but a secondary function (such as armor reduction, stam regeneration, etc), as the class passives themselves are fairly skewed toward magicka already.

Most other classes have access to at least one, if not both, of the physical damage utilities I mentioned through their class skill lines, which is one of the major reasons that Stamina sorcs fall behind.

There is NO armor reduction available traditionally through stamina DPS weapon skill lines, which leaves Sorc in a sort of dependent state upon other players to provide this debuff. This isn't so much of an issue in a Trials setting, as your tank will likely be providing it, but for solo / small group / PvP, there's definitely a noticeable lack.

For comparison, NBs get armor reduction AND major armor + resistance from their Surprise Attack, which is instant cast and does good damage. DKs get armor reduction through Flame Breath morph, which is not only a great DoT ability, but applies the debuff to multiple targets in a cone.

Templars do not have access to an armor reducer either, but they make up for this w/ access to excellent stamina sustain abilities.

Sorcs.. well, Sorcs have nothing, outside of Bound Armaments 8% stam + heavy attack damage.

This is one of the most glaring issues holding Sorcs back when it comes to physical melee DPS roles.

You know it's funny templars actually do get a minor fracture in the form of the skill Power of the Light. When looking at the abilities it's plain to see the other 3 class got a mix of utility and damage to pull from. It may have not been everyone's favorite abilities but they are there. Looking at the sorcs options I am at a total loss. We don't synergize particularly well with heavy attacks ( try to match against a DK) and dark deal missed the mark by simply being to long of a channel. I'm just farming my alloys and wax at the moment so I'll be ready in the next 2 months at this point. I can't wait to see what get added.

Varicite

I actually completely forgot about PotL, my apologies.

You can probably tell that Templar is the one class that I do not play extensively. : P

Erock25

exiledtyrant wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Okay lets give more staimna morphs to sorcs, we will have the same situation as year ago, just now everybody will run stamina not magica and next year we will add 3rdmagica morph so we can again reroll to magica... BOLTS AWAY...

Because giving 1-2 damaging abilities to stamina sorcs is definitely going to make everybody who enjoys the magicka playstyle reroll immediately.

I wish people would stop spouting this ridiculous hyperbole.

@exiledtyrant That was a very insightful explanation about exactly why we decide to pick on these morphs, and why they are the lesser used morphs of those abilities.

I still feel that a stamina Sorc needs tools that provide not ONLY damage, but a secondary function (such as armor reduction, stam regeneration, etc), as the class passives themselves are fairly skewed toward magicka already.

Most other classes have access to at least one, if not both, of the physical damage utilities I mentioned through their class skill lines, which is one of the major reasons that Stamina sorcs fall behind.

There is NO armor reduction available traditionally through stamina DPS weapon skill lines, which leaves Sorc in a sort of dependent state upon other players to provide this debuff. This isn't so much of an issue in a Trials setting, as your tank will likely be providing it, but for solo / small group / PvP, there's definitely a noticeable lack.

For comparison, NBs get armor reduction AND major armor + resistance from their Surprise Attack, which is instant cast and does good damage. DKs get armor reduction through Flame Breath morph, which is not only a great DoT ability, but applies the debuff to multiple targets in a cone.

Templars do not have access to an armor reducer either, but they make up for this w/ access to excellent stamina sustain abilities.

Sorcs.. well, Sorcs have nothing, outside of Bound Armaments 8% stam + heavy attack damage.

This is one of the most glaring issues holding Sorcs back when it comes to physical melee DPS roles.

You know it's funny templars actually do get a minor fracture in the form of the skill Power of the Light. When looking at the abilities it's plain to see the other 3 class got a mix of utility and damage to pull from. It may have not been everyone's favorite abilities but they are there. Looking at the sorcs options I am at a total loss. We don't synergize particularly well with heavy attacks ( try to match against a DK) and dark deal missed the mark by simply being to long of a channel. I'm just farming my alloys and wax at the moment so I'll be ready in the next 2 months at this point. I can't wait to see what get added.

The disparity between whateach class gets that helps with a stamina build is pretty shocking. People were bringing it up immediately on PTS and I was very pleased at the quick dev responses there. The PTS build still had a few weeks before going Live and I was sure that they would fix the disparity immediately. Gina even sounded like changes would be incoming ASAP. It is a load of crap that we will have to deal with being a magicka only class for around 5 months or longer.

exiledtyrant

Yea I saw some of the discussion going on. I got in on the tail end of it as I hadn't been playing since the end of beta. I wasn't to thrilled on the direction of the class as a whole when I left ( mainly dark magic and the lack of signature conjuration). When I saw revamps happening and the advent of pay as you go I hopped back on in the hopes that there would be something more. I'll say the sorc didn't come out as bad as it started but the new design philosophy was what pulled me in. I'm still waiting on those promises to be delivered.

Glurin

Erock25 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

The real problem here, @Varicite, is that you talk about fairness and equality across classes, but then you dictate that the only possible solution is to switch to stamina morphs and belittle anyone who disagrees as being selfish. You are completely unwilling to even consider anyone else's opinion, let alone the flaws in your own.

Equality does not mean everybody has to have the same number of all the same stuff. Balance does not mean stamina should get everything. Fairness does not mean you should get what someone else has just because you want it.

I know you are a min/maxer and that min/maxers tend to have difficulty with the idea of there being more than one effective approach to any given problem, but that doesn't give you the right to dismiss the opinions of others in the manner you have been.

What I want @glurin to understand and anyone else against some stamina options, is that I myself am not asking for a lot of change. What change I'm asking for also ties into tweaks for the entire class and all playstyles. It isn't about giving Sorc an exact equal amount of stam options as NB/DK/Temp, it is about giving the Sorc stam options that allow it to still play and feel like a Sorc in a stamina build. Below is my list of proposed changes from this topic on Sorceror uggestions for overall class balance. I'm listing all of them because yes, certain magicka morphs get changed/removed but other skills make up for it.

The objectives I tried to fulfill in my suggested changes

• Give Magicka DPS builds more utility to a group and raid
• Give Magicka DPS builds a way to increase their damage if they are allowed to reliably stay in melee range
• Give Stamina DPS builds some synergy with their Sorcerer skills
• Give some love to the Healer and Tank Sorc
• Suggest changes that are realistic in concept and require low effort to execute

Power Surge - Duration increased to 40 seconds (to 43 seconds on Rank4). Provides yourself with Minor Prophecy (3% spell crit)

• I think Power Surge has been marginalized by Entropy, especially considering the Mage's Guild - Might of the Guild Passive. The heal component of Surge is now just an ancillary effect in my opinion because of how DOTs activate the cooldown and I believe extended duration is the easiest way to make Power Surge a valid contender to Entropy.

Critical Surge - Cost reduced by 40%. Provides yourself with Major Endurance (+20% stam regen) for 10 seconds.

• Just as Power Surge is marginalized by Entropy, I believe Critical Surge is inferior to the 2h skill Rally. Yes we can access this Major Brutality without using 2h and that is an advantage, but I still think this skill needs more oomph. Currently Critical Surge has a HUGE cost for a stamina build, and a 40% reduction seems fair. Also, Sorc do not have access to any in combat stamina regen and Major Endurance is a great fit here. It is important that this spell does not switch to a stamina morph because I feel it is important that stamina builds have access to magicka dumps that do not scale on spell power/total magicka.

Volatile Familiar - Changed back to instant cast. Increase the melee damage the pet does by 100% (it still isn't much).

• This morph is completely useless without it being instant cast. This should be the second pet (besides Twilight) go to option for a magicka Sorc.

Clannfear - Reduce cast time to 0.5 seconds and change this to a stamina morph.

• My preferred change for this ability may be impossible, but if it is possible, it would add a layer of fun and useful gameplay for a Tank Sorc. I think if you manually command this pet to attack anything (default binding is Y + left click), it should also taunt it regardless of who is on the threat table. This pet has decent HP, but it isn't going to hold up long against most enemies (especially bosses) in group PVE content so it will not be overpowered.

Daedric Prey - Increase the additional pet damage to 50% and refocus all pets to attack this target.

• I do not think using Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward to get the most out of your pets is a useful mechanic. For starters, it means a lot of your skill bar and morph choices need to be dedicated to pets. Also Hardened Ward is a MUST HAVE for any magicka Sorc who wants to PVP and it would be very helpful to be able to spec Hardened Ward instead of Empowered Ward and still get the most out of your pets.

Bound Aegis - Also provides Minor Mending buff (8% healing done increase)

• A small buff that gives Sorc a reason to be a healer.

Empowered Ward - This morph will cost magicka but will now scale on health.

• I think this is important for a stamina Sorc to have a damage shield. The reason we are scaling on health here is so that this skill is stronger for tanks. A stamina build with a stamina scaling shield would be over the top with their ability to dodge roll, break free, block and have more mitigations than a light armor user underneath the damage shield. Keeping this morph as a magicka cost prevents high sustain stamina builds from spamming this spell and scaling it on health instead of magicka ensures that the shield will still be worth using even in a stamina build, which most likely will have close to a minimum in max magicka.

Crystal Blast - Melee range stamina morph that is just like Crystal Frag (minus the knockdown) and procs on activation of any skill that cost stamina. Does slightly less dmg than a magicka build Crystal Frag but also provides the Sorc and his group Minor Brutality (increase weapon damage by 5%) for 5 seconds.

• Provides a dmg stamina morph, keeps the Crystal proc gameplay consistent between builds, while giving the Sorc a minor group buff and Dark Deal heals.

Suppression Field - change the Minor Protection buff to a Major Protection buff.

• This has been nerfed too hard and needs a bit more group utility.

Exploitation Passive - Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Major Prophecy (10% spell crit) to a Sorcerer and his group (important it is group only so multiple Sorc would be needed to keep this running for the entire raid) for 5/10 seconds.

• Gives Sorc a strong reason to be a part of raids and groups.

Daedric Bomb (rename of Daedric Tomb) - Sorcerer places a Daedric Bomb on the ground (double the activation radius of a single mine) which takes 5 seconds to activate and when triggered, explodes for massive damage.

• The damage done here is the real question. It should be powerful because it takes coordination between the group and gives Sorc a reason to be in melee range.

Also Twilight needs to be no more than a 0.5 second cast. Considering that these pets die in some encounters and there is no reason not to reduce the cast time.

Anyways that is my list. What it boils down to is increasing pet damage slightly (Volatile doing more passive dmg), giving magicka Sorc a melee range DPS boost (that shouldn't affect PVP at all), giving useful group buffs to the Sorc that make them must haves for group PVE, and helping out the stam/healer/tank Sorc as well.

I can understand people being concerned that their build will suffer, but you have to understand that we aren't asking for a lot, and it should not be all negatives for a magicka build. I know there are people out there that say they like the current incarnation of Crystal Blast, but to me, Crystal Frag is an essential and class defining skill. Bringing that gameplay over to the stamina build gives Sorcs a reason to use something else besides just endless Wrecking Blows. Pets are a divisive topic, but like it or not, they are a unique part of the Sorc and giving a stamina/tank version of pet to the class helps give it a better identity. Sure, magicka users lose Clannfear but instead they get a higher DPS and instant cast Volatile Familiar. Finally, your pet dying in combat will actually be a good thing as it explodes for massive damage. Pet users lose their +pet dmg from Empowered Ward but gain just about all of it back in a higher buff to pet dmg in Daedric Prey.

Would these changes really be so bad for you that it is worth coming to a topic discussing this concept and complain over and over again?

Crystal Blast is fine as is. Switching it to stamina and redesigning it to work just like Fragments in melee range just wrecks it for magicka and hybrids while giving stamina a redundant DPS spam ability. Also, as far as I'm concerned, that random instant cast is toxic. Even with a full stamina build, I wouldn't use it because of that. Also, it already provides a group buff with the passive Exploitation. It might be better to put a weapon buff on that rather than Crystal Blast, which would as a side effect also open up every other Dark Magic skill.

A tank pet on the squishy builds makes more sense than a tank pet on the tanky builds.

It looks to me like you're arguing from a min/max perspective as well. Adjusting the game within that framework is what leads to necessary cookie cutter builds, not balance.

You know what I suggest gives sorc magicka dps, stamina dps, tank, and heals valid specs but oh yeah... Because I care about performance I'm definitely just trying to make everyone into a cookie cutter min/max build.

'it looks to me like you're arguing from a min/max perspective.' you saying that as if it is something negative means I will now learn to ignore all you say about sorc balance.

It IS something negative. Min/maxers unwittingly destroy the very notion of playing how you want because to them there is only one legitimate way to play and only one valid build to do it with for any given role at any given time. I said what I did because that's what your suggestions seem geared toward.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

(sorry, couldn't resist)

If anything is given to Stamina Sorcs, it should probably be something more functional than just another DPS spam ability.

Perhaps something that could provide the major armor reduction debuff, or a stamina regeneration effect? Either of these would both serve Stam Sorcs well, as they have access to neither while wielding the traditional stam-based DPS weapons (S&B not included here).

Maybe a stamina morph of Encase that provides an conal AoE debuff in addition to the root?

And to be completely honest, I do like the idea of a Streak stamina morph to provide a functional gap closer AND escape, which would make it more useful than the traditional Crit Rush.

As long as the damage remains low, it wouldn't outclass the 2H gap closer completely, and you could even add in the debuff to make it cost 50% more so that it won't be spammed too much along w/ dodge rolls? I'm not sure on this, it would probably need a bit of work.

Good suggestions. I knew you could do it.

Glurin

exiledtyrant wrote: »

I would like give some perspective as to why crystal blast, encase, and the pets are popping up a lot as unused morphs.

With crystal blast you are wasting 1+ seconds( crystal shard cast time bug still not addressedv) to do a small radius aoe that amounts to about as much damage and radius as velocious curse which is instant. In that time you are waiting for the curse you could be stacking elemental wall, liquid lightning ( the skill buffed specifically for sorc class based aoe), spamming elemental ring ( which should outperform crystal blast since it's instant with comparable damage), or even setting up a magicka detonation which hits for full damage. Even fire rune does moderately good aoe with a dot component or you can use 4 second stun utility, and it empowers your next ability. These stack up together much better and cover much more area than trying to cast crystal blast. It tries to fill a niche that isn't needed. A stam sorc on the other hand can use one of the melee weapon aoes and the persistent bow aoe together, maybe caltrops.

Encase should be a go to skill for melee. You see the duel wield ruffian passive and almost 6 seconds of immobilize and think instant melee synergy. The ugly truth is that in pve the cone is awkward and mobs still manage to slide around while encased. In pvp the cone is slow to fire( you can walk from the middle of the encase radius to either side and it will miss), has issues with different elevations , it is constantly purged in large group fights, rolled out of constantly, and you can bunny hop over it. It's only reliable application comes when someone is running directly towards you. Honestly it's an all around bad skill. Shattering prison also tries to give aoe when it's damage only scales up to noticeable levels after encasing multiple units close together ( that can't break the prison early). Magicka aoe is pretty much covered however which makes it a likely candidate. If nothing else reliability of the skill needs to be adjusted.

Lastly The twilight and clan fear health based morphs are more melee oriented because melee bonuses and play style are geared more towards health. Magicka is the new health for damage shield users who are discouraged from stacking health or being hit in the first place. They don't have to worry about stacking as much mitigation as melee which makes health useful nor do magicka based set bonuses and armor types offer enough mitigation for health stacking to be beneficial over building towards shields.

I already know very well why people underestimate these skills. It all boils down to the size of their e-peen on damage meters.

Curse is in a different tree, as is every other skill you mentioned as an alternative, and takes over twice as long to do it's damage after you start the cast. Blast is also a reliable knockdown and the splash from it helps out more than you give it credit for. Reliable hard hitting knockdown with splash damage and some minor healing and a buff all rolled into one skill on the bar as opposed to three or four. It's not built to be specifically the AOE skill or the single target skill.

Yes, Encase should be a go to skill for melee and it isn't because it's got some serious problems that make just about nobody use it. I don't think anyone is arguing that. Those problems need to be addressed before an informed discussion can really take place on where it can fit in a stamina stacked build.

And as far as the summons are concerned, you say that and yet do you know what I see all the time in my questing when I run into other sorcerers? Twilights and clannfear. (I see blast fairly often as well, btw.) ....................I think I just stumbled onto something here. Thinking back, it looks like people are trying to balance everything around raids and PvP, which I suppose is only natural given the min/max focus on things this thread has taken. But there is more to ESO than those two situations.

At any rate, pets shouldn't be something upon which you are relying on their death to get something out of IMO. And there is no reason to switch any of them to a stamina. Besides which it just makes no sense at all that a mage can summon twilights and scamps with spell casting, but just stands there and grunts to summon a clannfear.

Cathexis

I use encase. 900 aoe damage snare works just fine for me.

Cathexis

@glurin I think the real problem with pets is their non-raid non-pvp utility sucks up an entire tree for those things which no other class has a problem with. Pets just need to be more effective. Currently they are far too slow and are outstripped by other possible skills. As far as stamina costs are concerned, why not? You have to precast them 75% of the time. It makes no difference in your resource pool. As I said before, summoning needs a huge overhaul anyway, why not revamp it as a stamina oriented tree.

Glurin

Cathexis wrote: »

I use encase. 900 aoe damage snare works just fine for me.

And wouldn't you like it to hit more reliably?

Cathexis wrote: »

@glurin I think the real problem with pets is their non-raid non-pvp utility sucks up an entire tree for those things which no other class has a problem with. Pets just need to be more effective. Currently they are far too slow and are outstripped by other possible skills. As far as stamina costs are concerned, why not? You have to precast them 75% of the time. It makes no difference in your resource pool. As I said before, summoning needs a huge overhaul anyway, why not revamp it as a stamina oriented tree.

If it makes no difference, then why switch it to stamina in the first place? As far as precasting them 75% of the time is concerned, that 25% is going to cause problems for magicka sorcerers with stamina pets more than stamina sorcerers with magicka pets. Remember, whatever build you use you still have to use stamina for dodge roll and break free and whatnot. Magicka sorcerers, or anyone not stacked stamina really, don't have that much to spare.

Erock25

This thread has devolved into people who intentionally take weaker builds because of reasons (want to be different? think powerful spells are unfair? they only do solo PVE so literally any ability will work? I dunno) discussing the future of a class that is severely lacking build options. It's like the blind petitioning Crayola to change the name of a color of crayon because they don't like it.

Glurin

Erock25 wrote: »

This thread has devolved into people who intentionally take weaker builds because of reasons (want to be different? think powerful spells are unfair? they only do solo PVE so literally any ability will work? I dunno) discussing the future of a class that is severely lacking build options. It's like the blind petitioning Crayola to change the name of a color of crayon because they don't like it.

And here we go again. "Every build but the one that I deem worthy is useless and should be completely sacrificed to create one more exclusive build that I deem worthy. Anyone that disagrees is (*insert insult*)"

Sacrificing five flexible builds to create one inflexible one is a net loss. You didn't create more build options. You just forced everyone to pick the green pill or the blue pill.

Varicite

Glurin wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

This thread has devolved into people who intentionally take weaker builds because of reasons (want to be different? think powerful spells are unfair? they only do solo PVE so literally any ability will work? I dunno) discussing the future of a class that is severely lacking build options. It's like the blind petitioning Crayola to change the name of a color of crayon because they don't like it.

And here we go again. "Every build but the one that I deem worthy is useless and should be completely sacrificed to create one more exclusive build that I deem worthy. Anyone that disagrees is (*insert insult*)"

Sacrificing five flexible builds to create one inflexible one is a net loss. You didn't create more build options. You just forced everyone to pick the green pill or the blue pill.

Yeah, you're bringing nothing to the table but insults and negativity, and that's literally all you've brought to this thread the entire time you've posted in it.

You don't care about balance, and that's fine, that's your opinion.

But I'm pretty much done taking anything you say seriously.

I'd suggest others do the same and continue to pursue a more productive conversation w/out constantly being trolled.

Erock25

Varicite wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

This thread has devolved into people who intentionally take weaker builds because of reasons (want to be different? think powerful spells are unfair? they only do solo PVE so literally any ability will work? I dunno) discussing the future of a class that is severely lacking build options. It's like the blind petitioning Crayola to change the name of a color of crayon because they don't like it.

And here we go again. "Every build but the one that I deem worthy is useless and should be completely sacrificed to create one more exclusive build that I deem worthy. Anyone that disagrees is (*insert insult*)"

Sacrificing five flexible builds to create one inflexible one is a net loss. You didn't create more build options. You just forced everyone to pick the green pill or the blue pill.

Yeah, you're bringing nothing to the table but insults and negativity, and that's literally all you've brought to this thread the entire time you've posted in it.

You don't care about balance, and that's fine, that's your opinion.

But I'm pretty much done taking anything you say seriously.

I always have trouble reconciling the fact that people on the internet will NEVER change their minds even when presented with cold hard facts. He even suggests that giving Sorc stamina/heal/tank synergy is sacrificing build diversity ..... HUH???? I've decided that if Glurin here is the only detractor of stamina morph options for the Sorc because he wants to keep spamming Crystal Blast, well then we're in a pretty good position.

Varicite

Erock25 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

This thread has devolved into people who intentionally take weaker builds because of reasons (want to be different? think powerful spells are unfair? they only do solo PVE so literally any ability will work? I dunno) discussing the future of a class that is severely lacking build options. It's like the blind petitioning Crayola to change the name of a color of crayon because they don't like it.

And here we go again. "Every build but the one that I deem worthy is useless and should be completely sacrificed to create one more exclusive build that I deem worthy. Anyone that disagrees is (*insert insult*)"

Sacrificing five flexible builds to create one inflexible one is a net loss. You didn't create more build options. You just forced everyone to pick the green pill or the blue pill.

Yeah, you're bringing nothing to the table but insults and negativity, and that's literally all you've brought to this thread the entire time you've posted in it.

You don't care about balance, and that's fine, that's your opinion.

But I'm pretty much done taking anything you say seriously.

I always have trouble reconciling the fact that people on the internet will NEVER change their minds even when presented with cold hard facts. He even suggests that giving Sorc stamina/heal/tank synergy is sacrificing build diversity ..... HUH???? I've decided that if Glurin here is the only detractor of stamina morph options for the Sorc because he wants to keep spamming Crystal Blast, well then we're in a pretty good position.

Fully agreed.

I still think that both Streak and Encase are prime candidates for reform for stamina builds.

As for conversion of the summoning tree, while I am in total agreement that the makeup of the tree does indeed fall short of expectations, that is basically only the summon-oriented skills (clanfear, twilight).

I opted not to touch upon this particular tree because every skill that isn't summon-based is actually pretty decent for Magicka sorcs, and I didn't want to take away some of their nicest toys simply because "I want it".

Hardened Ward, Velocious Curse, Bound Armor / Armaments are decent abilities. Armaments is already a go-to spell for Sorc stam builds as-is, so that's a no-brainer.

Ward, while I'd love to see a nice stamina shield that isn't relegated to being a strictly worse version of Annulment (yes, I'm talking about YOU, Bone Shield, start lifting), no other stamina build has access to this type of protection. I assume (of course, I could be wrong), that this is by design choice by the devs. But it certainly WOULD be nice, and niche.

And Curse probably doesn't fit in too well w/ the design of stamina builds, but stranger things have happened. DKs have both Unstable Flame AND Burning Breath as stam-based DoTs + utility.

Of course, that's not to say these abilities can't be touched; just stating my own reasons for not having dwelled on them too long. : P

Glurin

A bad idea is a bad idea, and I will call it a bad idea regardless of how arrogant and condescending you are.

Better that the flaws get acknowledged now than complained about later.

Erock25

Glurin wrote: »

A bad idea is a bad idea, and I will call it a bad idea regardless of how arrogant and condescending you are.

Better that the flaws get acknowledged now than complained about later.

Keep using Crystal Blast, friend. Your opinions on class balance are very important to me.

Varicite wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

This thread has devolved into people who intentionally take weaker builds because of reasons (want to be different? think powerful spells are unfair? they only do solo PVE so literally any ability will work? I dunno) discussing the future of a class that is severely lacking build options. It's like the blind petitioning Crayola to change the name of a color of crayon because they don't like it.

And here we go again. "Every build but the one that I deem worthy is useless and should be completely sacrificed to create one more exclusive build that I deem worthy. Anyone that disagrees is (*insert insult*)"

Sacrificing five flexible builds to create one inflexible one is a net loss. You didn't create more build options. You just forced everyone to pick the green pill or the blue pill.

Yeah, you're bringing nothing to the table but insults and negativity, and that's literally all you've brought to this thread the entire time you've posted in it.

You don't care about balance, and that's fine, that's your opinion.

But I'm pretty much done taking anything you say seriously.

I always have trouble reconciling the fact that people on the internet will NEVER change their minds even when presented with cold hard facts. He even suggests that giving Sorc stamina/heal/tank synergy is sacrificing build diversity ..... HUH???? I've decided that if Glurin here is the only detractor of stamina morph options for the Sorc because he wants to keep spamming Crystal Blast, well then we're in a pretty good position.

Fully agreed.

I still think that both Streak and Encase are prime candidates for reform for stamina builds.

As for conversion of the summoning tree, while I am in total agreement that the makeup of the tree does indeed fall short of expectations, that is basically only the summon-oriented skills (clanfear, twilight).

I opted not to touch upon this particular tree because every skill that isn't summon-based is actually pretty decent for Magicka sorcs, and I didn't want to take away some of their nicest toys simply because "I want it".

Hardened Ward, Velocious Curse, Bound Armor / Armaments are decent abilities. Armaments is already a go-to spell for Sorc stam builds as-is, so that's a no-brainer.

Ward, while I'd love to see a nice stamina shield that isn't relegated to being a strictly worse version of Annulment (yes, I'm talking about YOU, Bone Shield, start lifting), no other stamina build has access to this type of protection. I assume (of course, I could be wrong), that this is by design choice by the devs. But it certainly WOULD be nice, and niche.

And Curse probably doesn't fit in too well w/ the design of stamina builds, but stranger things have happened. DKs have both Unstable Flame AND Burning Breath as stam-based DoTs + utility.

Of course, that's not to say these abilities can't be touched; just stating my own reasons for not having dwelled on them too long. : P

Personally, I wouldn't touch Streak/BoL because magicka Sorcs have real reasons to use both morphs and they do very different things. Encase could definitely be looked at for a stamina morph, although I really hate the targeting mechanic.

Right now the clannfear for magicka sorcs is only used in solo PVE for some tanking. In my suggested changes, Volatile would be doing more DPS than Clannfear on top of the fact that if it dies, it actually benefits the DPS sorc more, instead of healing the Sorc (who is usualy 100%HP at this point) right before the aggro switches to him.

In regards to a change in Ward for stamina build synergy... my suggestion actually keeps Empowered Ward as a magicka cost but scales on HP (just like DK Igneous Shield and Templar Blazing Shield) so that it is better for tanks while still being somewhat useful for stamina DPS.

Glurin

Erock25 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

A bad idea is a bad idea, and I will call it a bad idea regardless of how arrogant and condescending you are.

Better that the flaws get acknowledged now than complained about later.

Keep using Crystal Blast, friend. Your opinions on class balance are very important to me.

Oh it's become abundantly clear that the only opinion that matters to you is your own and that of your fellow min/maxer yes men.

I probably care more about class balance than the two of you combined. But to me, balance is about more than having just one or two builds than can theoretically do the same ungodly amount of DPS as one or two builds from the other classes. Such a thing isn't even in the spirit of the Elder Scrolls franchise. What we need is a variety of builds that are viable. Truly viable. Not given a pass/fail of only the one that does the most damage is worth anything.

Varicite

Erock25 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

A bad idea is a bad idea, and I will call it a bad idea regardless of how arrogant and condescending you are.

Better that the flaws get acknowledged now than complained about later.

Keep using Crystal Blast, friend. Your opinions on class balance are very important to me.

Varicite wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

This thread has devolved into people who intentionally take weaker builds because of reasons (want to be different? think powerful spells are unfair? they only do solo PVE so literally any ability will work? I dunno) discussing the future of a class that is severely lacking build options. It's like the blind petitioning Crayola to change the name of a color of crayon because they don't like it.

And here we go again. "Every build but the one that I deem worthy is useless and should be completely sacrificed to create one more exclusive build that I deem worthy. Anyone that disagrees is (*insert insult*)"

Sacrificing five flexible builds to create one inflexible one is a net loss. You didn't create more build options. You just forced everyone to pick the green pill or the blue pill.

Yeah, you're bringing nothing to the table but insults and negativity, and that's literally all you've brought to this thread the entire time you've posted in it.

You don't care about balance, and that's fine, that's your opinion.

But I'm pretty much done taking anything you say seriously.

I always have trouble reconciling the fact that people on the internet will NEVER change their minds even when presented with cold hard facts. He even suggests that giving Sorc stamina/heal/tank synergy is sacrificing build diversity ..... HUH???? I've decided that if Glurin here is the only detractor of stamina morph options for the Sorc because he wants to keep spamming Crystal Blast, well then we're in a pretty good position.

Fully agreed.

I still think that both Streak and Encase are prime candidates for reform for stamina builds.

As for conversion of the summoning tree, while I am in total agreement that the makeup of the tree does indeed fall short of expectations, that is basically only the summon-oriented skills (clanfear, twilight).

I opted not to touch upon this particular tree because every skill that isn't summon-based is actually pretty decent for Magicka sorcs, and I didn't want to take away some of their nicest toys simply because "I want it".

Hardened Ward, Velocious Curse, Bound Armor / Armaments are decent abilities. Armaments is already a go-to spell for Sorc stam builds as-is, so that's a no-brainer.

Ward, while I'd love to see a nice stamina shield that isn't relegated to being a strictly worse version of Annulment (yes, I'm talking about YOU, Bone Shield, start lifting), no other stamina build has access to this type of protection. I assume (of course, I could be wrong), that this is by design choice by the devs. But it certainly WOULD be nice, and niche.

And Curse probably doesn't fit in too well w/ the design of stamina builds, but stranger things have happened. DKs have both Unstable Flame AND Burning Breath as stam-based DoTs + utility.

Of course, that's not to say these abilities can't be touched; just stating my own reasons for not having dwelled on them too long. : P

Personally, I wouldn't touch Streak/BoL because magicka Sorcs have real reasons to use both morphs and they do very different things. Encase could definitely be looked at for a stamina morph, although I really hate the targeting mechanic.

Right now the clannfear for magicka sorcs is only used in solo PVE for some tanking. In my suggested changes, Volatile would be doing more DPS than Clannfear on top of the fact that if it dies, it actually benefits the DPS sorc more, instead of healing the Sorc (who is usualy 100%HP at this point) right before the aggro switches to him.

In regards to a change in Ward for stamina build synergy... my suggestion actually keeps Empowered Ward as a magicka cost but scales on HP (just like DK Igneous Shield and Templar Blazing Shield) so that it is better for tanks while still being somewhat useful for stamina DPS.

I can actually agree on Streak / BoL, having used both pretty extensively for my magicka Sorc, and you're right that they are both used quite differently. This was more of a personal wishlist idea, lol.

I don't take issue w/ the Clannfear changes. While it has been said that Sorc pets should be used for their own merits, and not merely to kill them off, this playstyle has actually been present in-game since Early Access when it was discovered that Volatile Familiar's AoE and magicka recoupe was SO good, especially against blocking opponents.

With the changes to being able to block AoEs, this has sort of fallen to the wayside and is relegated more for solo play.

However, there ARE a number of pet-focused builds that actually do pretty good DPS at endgame, and I'd feel remiss for neutering that playstyle for those who enjoy it, as it would be very hard to replicate w/ any other abilities.

Your suggestion for Ward to scale off of max health is actually something I've been pushing for for quite a while, as I honestly feel that Sorcs having the only class-based shield that scales from their main DPS resource is a bit... too much. : P

I would love to see something more damage-oriented, however, that doesn't really take too much away from magicka Sorc playstyles. Something will have to be sacrificed if we are going to follow ZOS' current stamina morph strategy, to be sure, but I'd much rather go in w/ a scalpel rather than a hammer. : P

The utilities we've been talking about are great (especially the clannfear suggestion, as it fulfills the damage + utility role), but I'm wondering if there isn't something that can be used much like Surprise Attack / Unstable Flame, as a regular part of Stamina Sorc rotations to maximize DPS.

Jar_Ek

OK this is the best I could manage:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167102/sorcerer-skilltrees-a-re-imagining?new=1
Enjoy.

Mayrael

Yes im whining saying that zos can figure something to keep the balance between stam and mag builds is very optimistic. Can you say that changing some of NBs magica morphs to stamina didnt forced them to resign of their builds or didnt made them weaker? Same goes with DKs. And if u think that giving some stamina skills to sorc wont make everyone to run stamina... Well look what is happening in Cyrodiil right now. U think that all peeps are runing with stam builds cause they were waiting from the beta to stamina be more effective? Or just thats cause the stam builds are now better than magica ones? TBH if they will change some morphs to stamina ill probably run stam build to, not beacuse i want, but because this probably will change efectivenes of my mag build and to stay competetive ill have to switch to stamina. I know it can be done without weakening mag builds, but do you beleve in that ZOS will do it the way we want it? And one more thing... I can see already flood of threads like "nurf sroc OP OP", even now there is a lot of them and imagine what would happened if sorcs could dodge roll like insane + have some sorc special utils like bolt escape or hardened ward...

bloodenragedb14_ESO

What comes to mind when you hear the word sorcerer.

If its anything other than a robed, bearded man thowing a fireball, or raising the dead, you need to get your head examined. In short, this is what i think of all of you who wish to ruin what is clearly been apart of the series physics forever, and the fact that ZOS caved to it.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-LHqF8asIw

Cathexis

@mayreal my experience with zen has been very positive. When they put their.minds to it they are very capable of delivering I think.

Erock25

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

What comes to mind when you hear the word sorcerer.

If its anything other than a robed, bearded man thowing a fireball, or raising the dead, you need to get your head examined. In short, this is what i think of all of you who wish to ruin what is clearly been apart of the series physics forever, and the fact that ZOS caved to it.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-LHqF8asIw

I hate the 'sorcerer is supposed to be THIS' argument but you are aware that traditionally in TES, Sorcerers are Heavy Armor wearing, 1 hand weapon wielding mages that do not specialize in destruction magic, right?

Mayrael wrote: »

Yes im whining saying that zos can figure something to keep the balance between stam and mag builds is very optimistic. Can you say that changing some of NBs magica morphs to stamina didnt forced them to resign of their builds or didnt made them weaker? Same goes with DKs. And if u think that giving some stamina skills to sorc wont make everyone to run stamina... Well look what is happening in Cyrodiil right now. U think that all peeps are runing with stam builds cause they were waiting from the beta to stamina be more effective? Or just thats cause the stam builds are now better than magica ones? TBH if they will change some morphs to stamina ill probably run stam build to, not beacuse i want, but because this probably will change efectivenes of my mag build and to stay competetive ill have to switch to stamina. I know it can be done without weakening mag builds, but do you beleve in that ZOS will do it the way we want it? And one more thing... I can see already flood of threads like "nurf sroc OP OP", even now there is a lot of them and imagine what would happened if sorcs could dodge roll like insane + have some sorc special utils like bolt escape or hardened ward...

Magicka NBs were adversely affected because they loved Ambush so much. DKs were not adversely affected at all really, especially in PVP. I'm talking specifically about morph changes to stamina here and not about overall game balance since 1.6. That being said, there are without a doubt certain morphs that have no use in a well designed magicka build that could easily be made into a stam morph. Even better, some abilities can be streamlined (Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward) so that you get all the magicka benefit of both in one spell and then the other spell can be stamina-ized. The 'nurf sorc OP OP' topics are complaining about burst (Vel Curse, Magicka Detonation, Crystal Frag and/or Overload) which isn't possible to replicate in a stam build, Wards which wouldn't be nearly as powerful in a stamina build, and escape which shouldn;t be given a stamina morph either. So @Mayrael did I change your mind? Basically your whole argument in the quoted post was reduced to 'NBs got screwed out of Ambush'.

Glurin wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

A bad idea is a bad idea, and I will call it a bad idea regardless of how arrogant and condescending you are.

Better that the flaws get acknowledged now than complained about later.

Keep using Crystal Blast, friend. Your opinions on class balance are very important to me.

Oh it's become abundantly clear that the only opinion that matters to you is your own and that of your fellow min/maxer yes men.

I probably care more about class balance than the two of you combined. But to me, balance is about more than having just one or two builds than can theoretically do the same ungodly amount of DPS as one or two builds from the other classes. Such a thing isn't even in the spirit of the Elder Scrolls franchise. What we need is a variety of builds that are viable. Truly viable. Not given a pass/fail of only the one that does the most damage is worth anything.

Seriously you believe that being able to run Crystal Blast as a magicka build instead of Crystal Frag is championing more than one viable build over people who are suggestion viable stamina, tank, and heal builds to go with an already strong magicka build? What we need is a variety of builds that are viable ..... UHHHH my point exactly. You are the one arguing against that.