Sorcerer - Lack of stamina morphs

ushanshek

Hello. Since 1.6 all classes got some morphs for stamina, unlike sorcerer (except bound armaments).
I think that some skills should be able to get morphed to stamina.
Crystal Shard - We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast. Therefore i suggest that the weaker morph, could be changed to stamina, Example:
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing xx Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Using other skills has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blast to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
(could also remove knockdown and give it Major Fracture)

Daedric Curse - Velocious curse is really good no doubt. Daedric prey not so much, they should increase pets damage without the need of curse on the target, pets are still very weak.
Example:
Curse an enemy with a destructive rune, dealing xx Magic Damage to the target enemy after 6 seconds and xx Magic Damage to any enemies nearby. Activating this ability grants you Minor Berserk and Major Endurance for 6 sec.
You can have only one curse active at any given time.

Daedric Mines - Daedric Minefield is pretty nice, daedric tomb not so much. Reduce the cost please.. (this one could stay mana skill)
Example:
Imbue your MELEE weapon with 3 volatile Daedric caltrops for 15 seconds that explode every third attack dealing xx damage and rooting them for 1.5 seconds.

Thoughts?

byrom101b16_ESO

This issue has been done to death - read nearly all other threads about the Sorc.

The idea is appealing to only a few, but there are already far better alternative ideas, like 3 morphs per skill.

ushanshek

thanks for the info, i don't visit forums that often

Erock25

Actually that guy who commented seems to be one of the few who don't support stamina morphs and goes out of his way to shoot them down. I was all over ZOS on the PTS forums trying to figure out why they screwed Sorc out of stamina options and a dev has admitted that was an error and they are looking to specifically address this fact in the future (hopefully soon). Everyone who has made stamina suggestions wants to tackle it from different angles. Here is my overall sorc post which contains some stamina morphs http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160736/sorcerer-suggestions-for-overall-class-balance/p1 .

We both targeted Crystal Blast for a stamina morph and this really is the perfect candidate. I think Daedric Prey has its uses for someone who wants to run pets. Daedric Tomb is definitely a place where Sorc could see some changes (especially considering the fact they don't work against bosses). I went a different route than you and made this the melee range DPS buff for magicka Sorcs, but a stamina morph here goes very well too.

Three morphs per skill would be great with 2 for magicka and 1 for stamina, but it is unrealistic and Stam Sorcs need SOMETHING sooner rather than later. Crystal Blast, Rune Cage, one of the Encases, Daedric Tomb, Clannfear, either Daedric Prey or Empowered Ward, and Mage's Wrath (or Endless Fury) are all valid candidates for stamina treatment IMO.

CP5

I would also be interested to see if zos still plans on working on the sorcerer class. @ZOS_GinaBruno, outside of the templar skill bugs, wonky traits and the occasional game related chaos, any word from Eric's team as to where the sorcerer class is headed?

Warraxx

NB-4 stam morphs
Temp-3 stam morphs
DK-2 stam morphs
Sorc-1 stam morph

see what they did there?

i see no problem with this and if you want more stam based sorc abilities thus less stam weapon abilities, then perhaps you are better off just going magika Sorc. l2sb

Emma_Overload

ushanshek wrote: »

Hello. Since 1.6 all classes got some morphs for stamina, unlike sorcerer (except bound armaments).
I think that some skills should be able to get morphed to stamina.
Crystal Shard - We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast. Therefore i suggest that the weaker morph, could be changed to stamina, Example:
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing xx Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Using other skills has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blast to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
(could also remove knockdown and give it Major Fracture)

Daedric Curse - Velocious curse is really good no doubt. Daedric prey not so much, they should increase pets damage without the need of curse on the target, pets are still very weak.
Example:
Curse an enemy with a destructive rune, dealing xx Magic Damage to the target enemy after 6 seconds and xx Magic Damage to any enemies nearby. Activating this ability grants you Minor Berserk and Major Endurance for 6 sec.
You can have only one curse active at any given time.

Daedric Mines - Daedric Minefield is pretty nice, daedric tomb not so much. Reduce the cost please.. (this one could stay mana skill)
Example:
Imbue your MELEE weapon with 3 volatile Daedric caltrops for 15 seconds that explode every third attack dealing xx damage and rooting them for 1.5 seconds.

Thoughts?

You say:

"We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast..."

I say: Who is this "We" you're talking about, 'cause it ain't THIS Sorc!? Crystal Frags is finicky and unreliable due to the RNG-based proc. Crystal Frags also sucks because you have put some OTHER spell on your bar that you can spam for the proc. Unfortunately, Sorcs don't have any good, spammable damage spells, otherwise we'd be using them instead of CF in the first place!

Crystal Blast, on the other hand, is one of the highest damage AOE spells in the game. If you care more about healing than max damage, you can stack health and magicka regen and get around 2800 HPS from the Blood Magic passive by casting it continuously.

.

CP5

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ushanshek wrote: »

Hello. Since 1.6 all classes got some morphs for stamina, unlike sorcerer (except bound armaments).
I think that some skills should be able to get morphed to stamina.
Crystal Shard - We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast. Therefore i suggest that the weaker morph, could be changed to stamina, Example:
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing xx Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Using other skills has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blast to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
(could also remove knockdown and give it Major Fracture)

Daedric Curse - Velocious curse is really good no doubt. Daedric prey not so much, they should increase pets damage without the need of curse on the target, pets are still very weak.
Example:
Curse an enemy with a destructive rune, dealing xx Magic Damage to the target enemy after 6 seconds and xx Magic Damage to any enemies nearby. Activating this ability grants you Minor Berserk and Major Endurance for 6 sec.
You can have only one curse active at any given time.

Daedric Mines - Daedric Minefield is pretty nice, daedric tomb not so much. Reduce the cost please.. (this one could stay mana skill)
Example:
Imbue your MELEE weapon with 3 volatile Daedric caltrops for 15 seconds that explode every third attack dealing xx damage and rooting them for 1.5 seconds.

Thoughts?

You say:

"We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast..."

I say: Who is this "We" you're talking about, 'cause it ain't THIS Sorc!? Crystal Frags is finicky and unreliable due to the RNG-based proc. Crystal Frags also sucks because you have put some OTHER spell on your bar that you can spam for the proc. Unfortunately, Sorcs don't have any good, spammable damage spells, otherwise we'd be using them instead of CF in the first place!

Crystal Blast, on the other hand, is one of the highest damage AOE spells in the game. If care more about healing than max damage, you can stack health and magicka regen and get around 2800 HPS from the Blood Magic passive by casting it continuously.

Blood magic has an internal cooldown last I checked, meaning hitting several enemies at the same time will only proc the passive once. Also the damage blast does in its aoe has never me feel compelled to use it over rng frags, regardless how slim the odds. I'm glad to have finally heard someone has used it.

Emma_Overload

CP5 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ushanshek wrote: »

Hello. Since 1.6 all classes got some morphs for stamina, unlike sorcerer (except bound armaments).
I think that some skills should be able to get morphed to stamina.
Crystal Shard - We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast. Therefore i suggest that the weaker morph, could be changed to stamina, Example:
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing xx Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Using other skills has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blast to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
(could also remove knockdown and give it Major Fracture)

Daedric Curse - Velocious curse is really good no doubt. Daedric prey not so much, they should increase pets damage without the need of curse on the target, pets are still very weak.
Example:
Curse an enemy with a destructive rune, dealing xx Magic Damage to the target enemy after 6 seconds and xx Magic Damage to any enemies nearby. Activating this ability grants you Minor Berserk and Major Endurance for 6 sec.
You can have only one curse active at any given time.

Daedric Mines - Daedric Minefield is pretty nice, daedric tomb not so much. Reduce the cost please.. (this one could stay mana skill)
Example:
Imbue your MELEE weapon with 3 volatile Daedric caltrops for 15 seconds that explode every third attack dealing xx damage and rooting them for 1.5 seconds.

Thoughts?

You say:

"We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast..."

I say: Who is this "We" you're talking about, 'cause it ain't THIS Sorc!? Crystal Frags is finicky and unreliable due to the RNG-based proc. Crystal Frags also sucks because you have put some OTHER spell on your bar that you can spam for the proc. Unfortunately, Sorcs don't have any good, spammable damage spells, otherwise we'd be using them instead of CF in the first place!

Crystal Blast, on the other hand, is one of the highest damage AOE spells in the game. If care more about healing than max damage, you can stack health and magicka regen and get around 2800 HPS from the Blood Magic passive by casting it continuously.

Blood magic has an internal cooldown last I checked, meaning hitting several enemies at the same time will only proc the passive once. Also the damage blast does in its aoe has never me feel compelled to use it over rng frags, regardless how slim the odds. I'm glad to have finally heard someone has used it.

"Blood magic has an internal cooldown last I checked..."

Which is why I never cared about it before update 1.6, but now that Surge heals have a cooldown, too, you can actually get higher HPS from Blood Magic in many situations.

Erock25

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ushanshek wrote: »

Hello. Since 1.6 all classes got some morphs for stamina, unlike sorcerer (except bound armaments).
I think that some skills should be able to get morphed to stamina.
Crystal Shard - We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast. Therefore i suggest that the weaker morph, could be changed to stamina, Example:
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing xx Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Using other skills has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blast to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
(could also remove knockdown and give it Major Fracture)

Daedric Curse - Velocious curse is really good no doubt. Daedric prey not so much, they should increase pets damage without the need of curse on the target, pets are still very weak.
Example:
Curse an enemy with a destructive rune, dealing xx Magic Damage to the target enemy after 6 seconds and xx Magic Damage to any enemies nearby. Activating this ability grants you Minor Berserk and Major Endurance for 6 sec.
You can have only one curse active at any given time.

Daedric Mines - Daedric Minefield is pretty nice, daedric tomb not so much. Reduce the cost please.. (this one could stay mana skill)
Example:
Imbue your MELEE weapon with 3 volatile Daedric caltrops for 15 seconds that explode every third attack dealing xx damage and rooting them for 1.5 seconds.

Thoughts?

You say:

"We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast..."

I say: Who is this "We" you're talking about, 'cause it ain't THIS Sorc!? Crystal Frags is finicky and unreliable due to the RNG-based proc. Crystal Frags also sucks because you have put some OTHER spell on your bar that you can spam for the proc. Unfortunately, Sorcs don't have any good, spammable damage spells, otherwise we'd be using them instead of CF in the first place!

Crystal Blast, on the other hand, is one of the highest damage AOE spells in the game. If you care more about healing than max damage, you can stack health and magicka regen and get around 2800 HPS from the Blood Magic passive by casting it continuously.

.

The 'we' he is talking about is literally everyone besides you.

exiledtyrant

ushanshek wrote: »

Hello. Since 1.6 all classes got some morphs for stamina, unlike sorcerer (except bound armaments).
I think that some skills should be able to get morphed to stamina.
Crystal Shard - We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast. Therefore i suggest that the weaker morph, could be changed to stamina, Example:
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing xx Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Using other skills has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blast to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
(could also remove knockdown and give it Major Fracture)

Daedric Curse - Velocious curse is really good no doubt. Daedric prey not so much, they should increase pets damage without the need of curse on the target, pets are still very weak.
Example:
Curse an enemy with a destructive rune, dealing xx Magic Damage to the target enemy after 6 seconds and xx Magic Damage to any enemies nearby. Activating this ability grants you Minor Berserk and Major Endurance for 6 sec.
You can have only one curse active at any given time.

Daedric Mines - Daedric Minefield is pretty nice, daedric tomb not so much. Reduce the cost please.. (this one could stay mana skill)
Example:
Imbue your MELEE weapon with 3 volatile Daedric caltrops for 15 seconds that explode every third attack dealing xx damage and rooting them for 1.5 seconds.

Thoughts?

daedric caltrops sounds interesting. I would really like to see a stamina variant of a melee imbue. surge just isn't cutting it for me. I really wish bound weapons made it into the game. Morphs like rift weapons could have had some possibilities or just summoning different weapons to begin with.

CP5

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ushanshek wrote: »

Hello. Since 1.6 all classes got some morphs for stamina, unlike sorcerer (except bound armaments).
I think that some skills should be able to get morphed to stamina.
Crystal Shard - We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast. Therefore i suggest that the weaker morph, could be changed to stamina, Example:
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing xx Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Using other skills has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Blast to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
(could also remove knockdown and give it Major Fracture)

Daedric Curse - Velocious curse is really good no doubt. Daedric prey not so much, they should increase pets damage without the need of curse on the target, pets are still very weak.
Example:
Curse an enemy with a destructive rune, dealing xx Magic Damage to the target enemy after 6 seconds and xx Magic Damage to any enemies nearby. Activating this ability grants you Minor Berserk and Major Endurance for 6 sec.
You can have only one curse active at any given time.

Daedric Mines - Daedric Minefield is pretty nice, daedric tomb not so much. Reduce the cost please.. (this one could stay mana skill)
Example:
Imbue your MELEE weapon with 3 volatile Daedric caltrops for 15 seconds that explode every third attack dealing xx damage and rooting them for 1.5 seconds.

Thoughts?

You say:

"We all know that Crystal Fragments is way better than Crystal Blast..."

I say: Who is this "We" you're talking about, 'cause it ain't THIS Sorc!? Crystal Frags is finicky and unreliable due to the RNG-based proc. Crystal Frags also sucks because you have put some OTHER spell on your bar that you can spam for the proc. Unfortunately, Sorcs don't have any good, spammable damage spells, otherwise we'd be using them instead of CF in the first place!

Crystal Blast, on the other hand, is one of the highest damage AOE spells in the game. If care more about healing than max damage, you can stack health and magicka regen and get around 2800 HPS from the Blood Magic passive by casting it continuously.

Blood magic has an internal cooldown last I checked, meaning hitting several enemies at the same time will only proc the passive once. Also the damage blast does in its aoe has never me feel compelled to use it over rng frags, regardless how slim the odds. I'm glad to have finally heard someone has used it.

"Blood magic has an internal cooldown last I checked..."

Which is why I never cared about it before update 1.6, but now that Surge heals have a cooldown, too, you can actually get higher HPS from Blood Magic in many situations.

But that 100-200 hps though.

Sanct16

The whole system is stupid. They should add additional Stamina morphs, not destroy existing ones for Magicka builds.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

Actually that guy who commented seems to be one of the few who don't support stamina morphs and goes out of his way to shoot them down. I was all over ZOS on the PTS forums trying to figure out why they screwed Sorc out of stamina options and a dev has admitted that was an error and they are looking to specifically address this fact in the future (hopefully soon). Everyone who has made stamina suggestions wants to tackle it from different angles. Here is my overall sorc post which contains some stamina morphs http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160736/sorcerer-suggestions-for-overall-class-balance/p1 .

We both targeted Crystal Blast for a stamina morph and this really is the perfect candidate. I think Daedric Prey has its uses for someone who wants to run pets. Daedric Tomb is definitely a place where Sorc could see some changes (especially considering the fact they don't work against bosses). I went a different route than you and made this the melee range DPS buff for magicka Sorcs, but a stamina morph here goes very well too.

Three morphs per skill would be great with 2 for magicka and 1 for stamina, but it is unrealistic and Stam Sorcs need SOMETHING sooner rather than later. Crystal Blast, Rune Cage, one of the Encases, Daedric Tomb, Clannfear, either Daedric Prey or Empowered Ward, and Mage's Wrath (or Endless Fury) are all valid candidates for stamina treatment IMO.

The problem with 3 morphs per skill is fine. However they can realistically think they can gove sorcs 3 morphs and not do that for other classes without creating more board drama.

byrom101b16_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

Actually that guy who commented seems to be one of the few who don't support stamina morphs and goes out of his way to shoot them down. I was all over ZOS on the PTS forums trying to figure out why they screwed Sorc out of stamina options and a dev has admitted that was an error and they are looking to specifically address this fact in the future (hopefully soon). Everyone who has made stamina suggestions wants to tackle it from different angles. Here is my overall sorc post which contains some stamina morphs http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160736/sorcerer-suggestions-for-overall-class-balance/p1 .

We both targeted Crystal Blast for a stamina morph and this really is the perfect candidate. I think Daedric Prey has its uses for someone who wants to run pets. Daedric Tomb is definitely a place where Sorc could see some changes (especially considering the fact they don't work against bosses). I went a different route than you and made this the melee range DPS buff for magicka Sorcs, but a stamina morph here goes very well too.

Three morphs per skill would be great with 2 for magicka and 1 for stamina, but it is unrealistic and Stam Sorcs need SOMETHING sooner rather than later. Crystal Blast, Rune Cage, one of the Encases, Daedric Tomb, Clannfear, either Daedric Prey or Empowered Ward, and Mage's Wrath (or Endless Fury) are all valid candidates for stamina treatment IMO.

There are plenty who don't support stamina morphs - actually read the threads in question and look at the comments other than those hand-waving and making the most noise.

Better still, count the numbers of posters who don't like the idea compared to the number of posts by the few who do. There are less supporters for stamina morphs, but far more posts.

That tells you all you need to know.

Plus Erock thinks he knows the minds of the Dev's, so the only truly acceptable compromise - 3 morphs, is 'unrealistic', but only according to him.

Fact of the matter is, magicka Sorcs. (the VAST majority of players btw, if you bother to find out by playing the game and asking them - do a straw poll yourself, don't listen to anyone here...) don't need their lack of morph choice (one decent, one crap) being hijacked with a stamina morph.

The reason magicka Sorcs aren't on here in vast numbers is because the huge majority are playing their 'wizards' the way they want... they haven't had their shtick messed with yet.

But, for some reason, Erock et al want a fourth choice of hybrid class because 25% of the classes not being what they want to play is unacceptable to them.

That's right, they can already play magicka/stamina hybrids that can fulfil all roles in the game already with ALL the other classes, but want stamina Sorcs.... well.... just because...

Just wait and see what happens if this self-serving minority get the two-morph hybridisation they are calling for... there are many players who are gonna be upset to see their class turned into something else. There are a metric ton of them yet to wake up to the fact this debate is even happening, because they don't use the forums.

I would say out of the 30 or so I have talked to about it in TS and chat, 25 or so didn't know their class was even being considered for hybridisation. I've heard the words 'crap', 'wrong' and 'no' used far more frequently than 'ok', or the far rarer, 'great' or 'cool'.

Anyway - like I said - just ask Sorc. players yourself - don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors routine of supporters on these forums.

JUST ASK!

I for one would welcome more readers of these thread doing so, it would put paid to the fabricated idea that this is a good move for the class or the game from the perspective of the majority of Sorc. players.

Sorcerers use magic in most people's minds and most people's playstyles. This is self evident, and Zenimax need to do a forum-independent survey on this before they do anything about this.

I have invited Erock to support such a survey, but her remains unsurprisingly quiet on the issue - it doesn't serve his desired outcome and so he cannot easily acknowledge its a good idea now can he?

The only reason I imagine the Dev which Erock mentions, but doesn't quote, I notice... 'said' stamina morphs 'were always meant to be in but were not as an oversight' is because like every other change the loudest minorities have demanded on the forums etc. Zenimax are panicking about this issue now due to the noise made about it.

Zenimax have a history of messing up the game and classes by making choices based on what the squeaky wheels want and not thinking through the ramifications on the majority of contented players, as evidenced by the PvE changes which messed up PvE recently.

Don't think for an instant that they won't mess up again if they take magicka morphs they should be improving and reverse engineer these magicka base skills into hybrid, take it or leave it one-trick ponies for BOTH play styles.

CP5

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Actually that guy who commented seems to be one of the few who don't support stamina morphs and goes out of his way to shoot them down. I was all over ZOS on the PTS forums trying to figure out why they screwed Sorc out of stamina options and a dev has admitted that was an error and they are looking to specifically address this fact in the future (hopefully soon). Everyone who has made stamina suggestions wants to tackle it from different angles. Here is my overall sorc post which contains some stamina morphs http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160736/sorcerer-suggestions-for-overall-class-balance/p1 .

We both targeted Crystal Blast for a stamina morph and this really is the perfect candidate. I think Daedric Prey has its uses for someone who wants to run pets. Daedric Tomb is definitely a place where Sorc could see some changes (especially considering the fact they don't work against bosses). I went a different route than you and made this the melee range DPS buff for magicka Sorcs, but a stamina morph here goes very well too.

Three morphs per skill would be great with 2 for magicka and 1 for stamina, but it is unrealistic and Stam Sorcs need SOMETHING sooner rather than later. Crystal Blast, Rune Cage, one of the Encases, Daedric Tomb, Clannfear, either Daedric Prey or Empowered Ward, and Mage's Wrath (or Endless Fury) are all valid candidates for stamina treatment IMO.

There are plenty who don't support stamina morphs - actually read the threads in question and look at the comments other than those hand-waving and making the most noise.

Better still, count the numbers of posters who don't like the idea compared to the number of posts by the few who do. There are less supporters for stamina morphs, but far more posts.

That tells you all you need to know.

Plus Erock thinks he knows the minds of the Dev's, so the only truly acceptable compromise - 3 morphs, is 'unrealistic', but only according to him.

Fact of the matter is, magicka Sorcs. (the VAST majority of players btw, if you bother to find out by playing the game and asking them - do a straw poll yourself, don't listen to anyone here...) don't need their lack of morph choice (one decent, one crap) being hijacked with a stamina morph.

The reason magicka Sorcs aren't on here in vast numbers is because the huge majority are playing their 'wizards' the way they want... they haven't had their shtick messed with yet.

But, for some reason, Erock et al want a fourth choice of hybrid class because 25% of the classes not being what they want to play is unacceptable to them.

That's right, they can already play magicka/stamina hybrids that can fulfil all roles in the game already with ALL the other classes, but want stamina Sorcs.... well.... just because...

Just wait and see what happens if this self-serving minority get the two-morph hybridisation they are calling for... there are many players who are gonna be upset to see their class turned into something else. There are a metric ton of them yet to wake up to the fact this debate is even happening, because they don't use the forums.

I would say out of the 30 or so I have talked to about it in TS and chat, 25 or so didn't know their class was even being considered for hybridisation. I've heard the words 'crap', 'wrong' and 'no' used far more frequently than 'ok', or the far rarer, 'great' or 'cool'.

Anyway - like I said - just ask Sorc. players yourself - don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors routine of supporters on these forums.

JUST ASK!

I for one would welcome more readers of these thread doing so, it would out paid to the fabricated idea that this is a good move for the class or the game from the perspective of the majority of players.

Sorcerers use magic in most people's minds and most people's playstyles. This is self evident, and Zenimax need to do a forum-independent survey on this before they do anything about this.

I have invited Erock to support such a survey, but her remains unsurprisingly quiet on the issue - it doesn't serve his desired outcome and so he cannot easily acknowledge its a good idea now can he?

The only reason I imagine the Dev which Erock mentions, but doesn't quote, I notice... 'said' stamina morphs 'were always meant to be in but were not as an oversight' is because like every other change the loudest minorities have demanded on the forums etc. Zenimax are panicking about this issue now due to the noise made about it.

Zenimax have a history of messing up the game and classes by making choices based on what the squeaky wheels want and not thinking through the ramifications on the majority of contented players, as evidenced by the PvE changes which messed up PvE recently.

Don't think for an instant that they won't mess up again if they take magicka morphs they should be improving and reverse engineer these magicka base skills into hybrid, take it or leave it one-trick ponies for BOTH play styles.

I'll keep this reply as short as possible.

1.) All skills in ESO have 2 morphs, not 3, not 5, not 7. 2. It is highly unlikely that the devs will develop a 3rd morph for every single skill in the entire game and throw that much into the balancing system as is.

2.) A vast majority of sorcerers run magicka builds since after 1.6 doing anything else is "very ineffective" and in ESO the intent is that any class can do any role. Currently that is the case with every class but sorcerers, and the other classes can not only go into every role but do them well without sacrificing variety or viability.

3.) I have said this in several replies to you in the past so I will restate it here quickly, I chose the sorcerer class because of the toolkit it provided, knowing full well I was going to use medium armor and a bow. See the other replies for elaboration.

4.) Isn't it selfish to say "sorcerers should only be able to use magicka because I want it that way?"

5.) Going in order of this post, I am a "Sorc player" and I want my class to be more than a boring one trick pony.

6.) As I said above I have provided replies to you in the past and on of them included the definitions of the sorcerer class in all other elder scrolls games, and in every on sorcerers used heavy armor, often had lower than normal or no magicka regen and also were prone to using weapons for when they ran dry. In all past games they were a "hybrid" class and just because they are the only class in ESO to be shown in light armor on the character create screen doesn't change that.

7.) With the current setup of the game if you don't focus heavily on one resource you will not function well, my main, a stamina sorcerer, can barely use their class defining skills and are forced more and more outside the class skills because I can't afford to use them. Stamina morphs allow all build types to use their class defining skills and to make their choice in class matter.

8.) If ZOS does make sorcerers a one trick pony for BOTH play styles it will be an improvement from being one trick ponies in ONE style of play...

Crescent

Why are people still feeding the byrom troll? Do people not bother to look up post history on vehement posters like him?

Just ignore him and move on why does every thread need to become the byrom Troll monologues.

Earthwardzilvox_ESO

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

This issue has been done to death - read nearly all other threads about the Sorc.

The idea is appealing to only a few, but there are already far better alternative ideas, like 3 morphs per skill.

No, adding third morphs does not solve the problem. That necessitates every ability to have a third morph, for every weapon, guild, and class. That will never happen, because there aren't 3 useful and balanced possible morphs for every ability in the game. There are barely two morphs worth creating for every ability in the game.

Second, stam sorcs aren't popular because they don't have morphs to begin with. They're plenty of fun for those that tried em already, but since they were given the short stick in 1.6, not many people have tried. We should absolutely have the option of using stam morphs, especially on abilities like lightning form and the sorc pets.

CP5

Crescent wrote: »

Why are people still feeding the byrom troll? Do people not bother to look up post history on vehement posters like him?

Just ignore him and move on why does every thread need to become the byrom Troll monologues.

I try, but when I read their post I get the need to vent a little. Keep telling myself this however.

Jar_Ek

A 3 morph solution would only be needed for class skill lines, but that is still 60 skills ignoring passives. That would take time to develop and test, even if the stamina morph was a copy/paste of a magicka one, but using stamina . It would be logical that even if this were the final zos solution, an intermediate step would be provide some stamina morphs for sorcerers in the hope that this would be enough. Plus if you think the current poor magicka morphs are likely to suddenly be buffed to something effective / useful, you are likely to be disappointed - magicka sorcerers are perceived as being op in PVP already.

byrom101b16_ESO

Crescent wrote: »

Why are people still feeding the byrom troll? Do people not bother to look up post history on vehement posters like him?

Just ignore him and move on why does every thread need to become the byrom Troll monologues.

Better yet - they should look up yours. I have made the same point repeatedly and engaged on the issue.

You just insult people who don't agree with you.

'nuff said.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

what do you think when you hear the word sorcerer

is it a marathon runner that shoots flames from his eyes? No?

spells should use magicka. pick another class if you dont want to use magicka

CP5

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

Why are people still feeding the byrom troll? Do people not bother to look up post history on vehement posters like him?

Just ignore him and move on why does every thread need to become the byrom Troll monologues.

Better yet - they should look up yours. I have made the same point repeatedly and engaged on the issue.

You just insult people who don't agree with you.

'nuff said.

You have made the same point repeatedly but haven't responded to counterarguments directly.

byrom101b16_ESO

CP5 wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Actually that guy who commented seems to be one of the few who don't support stamina morphs and goes out of his way to shoot them down. I was all over ZOS on the PTS forums trying to figure out why they screwed Sorc out of stamina options and a dev has admitted that was an error and they are looking to specifically address this fact in the future (hopefully soon). Everyone who has made stamina suggestions wants to tackle it from different angles. Here is my overall sorc post which contains some stamina morphs http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160736/sorcerer-suggestions-for-overall-class-balance/p1 .

We both targeted Crystal Blast for a stamina morph and this really is the perfect candidate. I think Daedric Prey has its uses for someone who wants to run pets. Daedric Tomb is definitely a place where Sorc could see some changes (especially considering the fact they don't work against bosses). I went a different route than you and made this the melee range DPS buff for magicka Sorcs, but a stamina morph here goes very well too.

Three morphs per skill would be great with 2 for magicka and 1 for stamina, but it is unrealistic and Stam Sorcs need SOMETHING sooner rather than later. Crystal Blast, Rune Cage, one of the Encases, Daedric Tomb, Clannfear, either Daedric Prey or Empowered Ward, and Mage's Wrath (or Endless Fury) are all valid candidates for stamina treatment IMO.

There are plenty who don't support stamina morphs - actually read the threads in question and look at the comments other than those hand-waving and making the most noise.

Better still, count the numbers of posters who don't like the idea compared to the number of posts by the few who do. There are less supporters for stamina morphs, but far more posts.

That tells you all you need to know.

Plus Erock thinks he knows the minds of the Dev's, so the only truly acceptable compromise - 3 morphs, is 'unrealistic', but only according to him.

Fact of the matter is, magicka Sorcs. (the VAST majority of players btw, if you bother to find out by playing the game and asking them - do a straw poll yourself, don't listen to anyone here...) don't need their lack of morph choice (one decent, one crap) being hijacked with a stamina morph.

The reason magicka Sorcs aren't on here in vast numbers is because the huge majority are playing their 'wizards' the way they want... they haven't had their shtick messed with yet.

But, for some reason, Erock et al want a fourth choice of hybrid class because 25% of the classes not being what they want to play is unacceptable to them.

That's right, they can already play magicka/stamina hybrids that can fulfil all roles in the game already with ALL the other classes, but want stamina Sorcs.... well.... just because...

Just wait and see what happens if this self-serving minority get the two-morph hybridisation they are calling for... there are many players who are gonna be upset to see their class turned into something else. There are a metric ton of them yet to wake up to the fact this debate is even happening, because they don't use the forums.

I would say out of the 30 or so I have talked to about it in TS and chat, 25 or so didn't know their class was even being considered for hybridisation. I've heard the words 'crap', 'wrong' and 'no' used far more frequently than 'ok', or the far rarer, 'great' or 'cool'.

Anyway - like I said - just ask Sorc. players yourself - don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors routine of supporters on these forums.

JUST ASK!

I for one would welcome more readers of these thread doing so, it would out paid to the fabricated idea that this is a good move for the class or the game from the perspective of the majority of players.

Sorcerers use magic in most people's minds and most people's playstyles. This is self evident, and Zenimax need to do a forum-independent survey on this before they do anything about this.

I have invited Erock to support such a survey, but her remains unsurprisingly quiet on the issue - it doesn't serve his desired outcome and so he cannot easily acknowledge its a good idea now can he?

The only reason I imagine the Dev which Erock mentions, but doesn't quote, I notice... 'said' stamina morphs 'were always meant to be in but were not as an oversight' is because like every other change the loudest minorities have demanded on the forums etc. Zenimax are panicking about this issue now due to the noise made about it.

Zenimax have a history of messing up the game and classes by making choices based on what the squeaky wheels want and not thinking through the ramifications on the majority of contented players, as evidenced by the PvE changes which messed up PvE recently.

Don't think for an instant that they won't mess up again if they take magicka morphs they should be improving and reverse engineer these magicka base skills into hybrid, take it or leave it one-trick ponies for BOTH play styles.

I'll keep this reply as short as possible.

1.) All skills in ESO have 2 morphs, not 3, not 5, not 7. 2. It is highly unlikely that the devs will develop a 3rd morph for every single skill in the entire game and throw that much into the balancing system as is.

2.) A vast majority of sorcerers run magicka builds since after 1.6 doing anything else is "very ineffective" and in ESO the intent is that any class can do any role. Currently that is the case with every class but sorcerers, and the other classes can not only go into every role but do them well without sacrificing variety or viability.

3.) I have said this in several replies to you in the past so I will restate it here quickly, I chose the sorcerer class because of the toolkit it provided, knowing full well I was going to use medium armor and a bow. See the other replies for elaboration.

4.) Isn't it selfish to say "sorcerers should only be able to use magicka because I want it that way?"

5.) Going in order of this post, I am a "Sorc player" and I want my class to be more than a boring one trick pony.

6.) As I said above I have provided replies to you in the past and on of them included the definitions of the sorcerer class in all other elder scrolls games, and in every on sorcerers used heavy armor, often had lower than normal or no magicka regen and also were prone to using weapons for when they ran dry. In all past games they were a "hybrid" class and just because they are the only class in ESO to be shown in light armor on the character create screen doesn't change that.

7.) With the current setup of the game if you don't focus heavily on one resource you will not function well, my main, a stamina sorcerer, can barely use their class defining skills and are forced more and more outside the class skills because I can't afford to use them. Stamina morphs allow all build types to use their class defining skills and to make their choice in class matter.

8.) If ZOS does make sorcerers a one trick pony for BOTH play styles it will be an improvement from being one trick ponies in ONE style of play...

Let me deal with these in order;

1) Yes, and the only way magicka Sorcs don't lose choices they have, or should have had from the start is by adding a third stamina morph. Anything else takes further choice away from existing players.

2) The vast majority of Sorc. players ran magicka builds before 1.6. You leave that fact out because it doesn't support your argument.

3) You may have chosen as you state, you may have done otherwise and changed your mind since. It's anecdotal at best. Perhaps you should support my idea of a non-forum based independent survey instead of assuming what you want is in any way what the majority want.

4) You are actually saying here that's it's 'selfish' to want the class to stay as it was designed. The design and flavour of class chosen by many as their main because it was designed this way.

It's selfish to have 3 choices already of magicka/stamina hybrid classes and want a fourth which would redesign the last class in the game to this style of play despite what the majority of players want. You think your desires are n the majority - put your money where you mouth is and call for a survey as I have.

Otherwise stop dressing up your selfish argument as somehow 'virtuous'. It isn't...

5) I want my Sorcerer to be more than a 'one trick pony', so I need viable alternative magicka morphs to the magicka skills they come from (that serve weapon loadouts), better magicka healing options and better pets. None of this requires stamina. But this is something no stamina fan can seem to understand.

You want to have a one-trick pony stamina Sorc.(one stamina morphs here and there which you will have to use, and for which you will have no alternatives) by forcing the majority magicka playstyle into never having their magicka morphs options opened up to two on bad skills. That you have managed to convince a few people that this isn't selfish would be funny if it wasn't so self-serving.

6) This one is hilarious. Sorcerer CLASS in ALL other TES games? Go and play most of the other TES games, and once you've worked out that there isn't a Sorcerer class, merely SORCERY, come back and admit your error.

SORCERY skills in all other TES games ever, use magicka, not stamina as their resource.

I know, it's weird right!? lmfao

Sorcerer players want to use Sorcery, and Sorcery uses magicka.

How is this lost on you?

7) You deliberately chose a sub-optimal setup on three class skill lines ALL based on magicka and then you complain bitterly that you cannot play the character you envisioned. Just to be clear - I agree that Zenimax's promise that you 'can play the way you want to play' was always just plain wrong. But that was obvious pretty early on to anyone paying attention. So far down the line and with three other classes which give you what you want (multiple roles and magicka/stamina hybridisation) and you still complain?

It would be equally 'logical' for me to complain that Dragon Knights can't stealth like Nightblades, or that Templars should have the best dodge evasion.

What you want is to use SORCERY with weapons other than a staff, and for different roles. So do I. The difference here is that you want to force stamina change on a 100% magicka class that is played by a great many because it is the magicka class, and I just want to improve the magicka class we are all playing into something more versatile.

... and you have the gall to call me selfish.

Just. Priceless.

Now, where were we.

8) Just NO. The opportunity here is for Sorcerer players to FINALLY have a decent choice on their lame magicka morphs. TWO choices for those using the magicka skills of the Sorcerer. Not a continuation of ONE. Two is choice, one is not. I can't comprehend how you don't get this...

This game, rightly or wrongly has made specialising in one resource one of the keys to success. 1.6 has made hybridisation even less desireable than before - just look how much Undaunted gear sells for peanuts or gets deconstructed if you don't understand this point.

So at this stage of the game, just as magicka Sorcerer utility, versatility and synergy has taken a hit in PvE, and resource specialisation is getting further rewarded and emphasised by the underlying mechanics of the game, you want to dilute the class further into hybridisation into a second resource.

There's an old saying for that;

"Jack of all trades, master of none..."


At the end of the day I am arguing for the general improvement of a class whose skills have always been magicka-based and whose morph choices have always had lame unused ones in place.

You want to change the class into a weaksauce version of itself because you can't see the wood for the trees, or that you shouldn't have chosen the class for a primary stamina build in the first place, and you pour scorn on those who don't agree with your suggested fundamental redesign.

As for those who think putting the word 'Troll' in their one-line posts makes them look like they know what they are talking about, well...

byrom101b16_ESO

Actually - just answer the one question.

Why would any class want to be changed to hybrid when single-resource specialisation is increasingly rewarded by the recently modified core mechanics of the game?

Its pure foolishness, and doubly so for a class whose PvE performance is at best 3rd or 4th out of the four classes to begin with.

CP5

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Actually that guy who commented seems to be one of the few who don't support stamina morphs and goes out of his way to shoot them down. I was all over ZOS on the PTS forums trying to figure out why they screwed Sorc out of stamina options and a dev has admitted that was an error and they are looking to specifically address this fact in the future (hopefully soon). Everyone who has made stamina suggestions wants to tackle it from different angles. Here is my overall sorc post which contains some stamina morphs http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160736/sorcerer-suggestions-for-overall-class-balance/p1 .

We both targeted Crystal Blast for a stamina morph and this really is the perfect candidate. I think Daedric Prey has its uses for someone who wants to run pets. Daedric Tomb is definitely a place where Sorc could see some changes (especially considering the fact they don't work against bosses). I went a different route than you and made this the melee range DPS buff for magicka Sorcs, but a stamina morph here goes very well too.

Three morphs per skill would be great with 2 for magicka and 1 for stamina, but it is unrealistic and Stam Sorcs need SOMETHING sooner rather than later. Crystal Blast, Rune Cage, one of the Encases, Daedric Tomb, Clannfear, either Daedric Prey or Empowered Ward, and Mage's Wrath (or Endless Fury) are all valid candidates for stamina treatment IMO.

There are plenty who don't support stamina morphs - actually read the threads in question and look at the comments other than those hand-waving and making the most noise.

Better still, count the numbers of posters who don't like the idea compared to the number of posts by the few who do. There are less supporters for stamina morphs, but far more posts.

That tells you all you need to know.

Plus Erock thinks he knows the minds of the Dev's, so the only truly acceptable compromise - 3 morphs, is 'unrealistic', but only according to him.

Fact of the matter is, magicka Sorcs. (the VAST majority of players btw, if you bother to find out by playing the game and asking them - do a straw poll yourself, don't listen to anyone here...) don't need their lack of morph choice (one decent, one crap) being hijacked with a stamina morph.

The reason magicka Sorcs aren't on here in vast numbers is because the huge majority are playing their 'wizards' the way they want... they haven't had their shtick messed with yet.

But, for some reason, Erock et al want a fourth choice of hybrid class because 25% of the classes not being what they want to play is unacceptable to them.

That's right, they can already play magicka/stamina hybrids that can fulfil all roles in the game already with ALL the other classes, but want stamina Sorcs.... well.... just because...

Just wait and see what happens if this self-serving minority get the two-morph hybridisation they are calling for... there are many players who are gonna be upset to see their class turned into something else. There are a metric ton of them yet to wake up to the fact this debate is even happening, because they don't use the forums.

I would say out of the 30 or so I have talked to about it in TS and chat, 25 or so didn't know their class was even being considered for hybridisation. I've heard the words 'crap', 'wrong' and 'no' used far more frequently than 'ok', or the far rarer, 'great' or 'cool'.

Anyway - like I said - just ask Sorc. players yourself - don't be fooled by the smoke and mirrors routine of supporters on these forums.

JUST ASK!

I for one would welcome more readers of these thread doing so, it would out paid to the fabricated idea that this is a good move for the class or the game from the perspective of the majority of players.

Sorcerers use magic in most people's minds and most people's playstyles. This is self evident, and Zenimax need to do a forum-independent survey on this before they do anything about this.

I have invited Erock to support such a survey, but her remains unsurprisingly quiet on the issue - it doesn't serve his desired outcome and so he cannot easily acknowledge its a good idea now can he?

The only reason I imagine the Dev which Erock mentions, but doesn't quote, I notice... 'said' stamina morphs 'were always meant to be in but were not as an oversight' is because like every other change the loudest minorities have demanded on the forums etc. Zenimax are panicking about this issue now due to the noise made about it.

Zenimax have a history of messing up the game and classes by making choices based on what the squeaky wheels want and not thinking through the ramifications on the majority of contented players, as evidenced by the PvE changes which messed up PvE recently.

Don't think for an instant that they won't mess up again if they take magicka morphs they should be improving and reverse engineer these magicka base skills into hybrid, take it or leave it one-trick ponies for BOTH play styles.

I'll keep this reply as short as possible.

1.) All skills in ESO have 2 morphs, not 3, not 5, not 7. 2. It is highly unlikely that the devs will develop a 3rd morph for every single skill in the entire game and throw that much into the balancing system as is.

2.) A vast majority of sorcerers run magicka builds since after 1.6 doing anything else is "very ineffective" and in ESO the intent is that any class can do any role. Currently that is the case with every class but sorcerers, and the other classes can not only go into every role but do them well without sacrificing variety or viability.

3.) I have said this in several replies to you in the past so I will restate it here quickly, I chose the sorcerer class because of the toolkit it provided, knowing full well I was going to use medium armor and a bow. See the other replies for elaboration.

4.) Isn't it selfish to say "sorcerers should only be able to use magicka because I want it that way?"

5.) Going in order of this post, I am a "Sorc player" and I want my class to be more than a boring one trick pony.

6.) As I said above I have provided replies to you in the past and on of them included the definitions of the sorcerer class in all other elder scrolls games, and in every on sorcerers used heavy armor, often had lower than normal or no magicka regen and also were prone to using weapons for when they ran dry. In all past games they were a "hybrid" class and just because they are the only class in ESO to be shown in light armor on the character create screen doesn't change that.

7.) With the current setup of the game if you don't focus heavily on one resource you will not function well, my main, a stamina sorcerer, can barely use their class defining skills and are forced more and more outside the class skills because I can't afford to use them. Stamina morphs allow all build types to use their class defining skills and to make their choice in class matter.

8.) If ZOS does make sorcerers a one trick pony for BOTH play styles it will be an improvement from being one trick ponies in ONE style of play...

Let me deal with these in order;

1) Yes, and the only way magicka Sorcs don't lose choices they have, or should have had from the start is by adding a third stamina morph. Anything else takes further choice away from existing players.

2) The vast majority of Sorc. players ran magicka builds before 1.6. You leave that fact out because it doesn't support your argument.

3) You may have chosen as you state, you may have done otherwise and changed your mind since. It's anecdotal at best. Perhaps you should support my idea of a non-forum based independent survey instead of assuming what you want is in any way what the majority want.

4) You are actually saying here that's it's 'selfish' to want the class to stay as it was designed. The design and flavour of class chosen by many as their main because it was designed this way.

It's selfish to have 3 choices already of magicka/stamina hybrid classes and want a fourth which would redesign the last class in the game to this style of play despite what the majority of players want. You think your desires are n the majority - put your money where you mouth is and call for a survey as I have.

Otherwise stop dressing up your selfish argument as somehow 'virtuous'. It isn't...

5) I want my Sorcerer to be more than a 'one trick pony', so I need viable alternative magicka morphs to the magicka skills they come from (that serve weapon loadouts), better magicka healing options and better pets. None of this requires stamina. But this is something no stamina fan can seem to understand.

You want to have a one-trick pony stamina Sorc.(one stamina morphs here and there which you will have to use, and for which you will have no alternatives) by forcing the majority magicka playstyle into never having their magicka morphs options opened up to two on bad skills. That you have managed to convince a few people that this isn't selfish would be funny if it wasn't so self-serving.

6) This one is hilarious. Sorcerer CLASS in ALL other TES games? Go and play most of the other TES games, and once you've worked out that there isn't a Sorcerer class, merely SORCERY, come back and admit your error.

SORCERY skills in all other TES games ever, use magicka, not stamina as their resource.

I know, it's weird right!? lmfao

Sorcerer players want to use Sorcery, and Sorcery uses magicka.

How is this lost on you?

7) You deliberately chose a sub-optimal setup on three class skill lines ALL based on magicka and then you complain bitterly that you cannot play the character you envisioned. Just to be clear - I agree that Zenimax's promise that you 'can play the way you want to play' was always just plain wrong. But that was obvious pretty early on to anyone paying attention. So far down the line and with three other classes which give you what you want (multiple roles and magicka/stamina hybridisation) and you still complain?

It would be equally 'logical' for me to complain that Dragon Knights can't stealth like Nightblades, or that Templars should have the best dodge evasion.

What you want is to use SORCERY with weapons other than a staff, and for different roles. So do I. The difference here is that you want to force stamina change on a 100% magicka class that is played by a great many because it is the magicka class, and I just want to improve the magicka class we are all playing into something more versatile.

... and you have the gall to call me selfish.

Just. Priceless.

Now, where were we.

8) Just NO. The opportunity here is for Sorcerer players to FINALLY have a decent choice on their lame magicka morphs. TWO choices for those using the magicka skills of the Sorcerer. Not a continuation of ONE. Two is choice, one is not. I can't comprehend how you don't get this...

This game, rightly or wrongly has made specialising in one resource one of the keys to success. 1.6 has made hybridisation even less desireable than before - just look how much Undaunted gear sells for peanuts or gets deconstructed if you don't understand this point.

So at this stage of the game, just as magicka Sorcerer utility, versatility and synergy has taken a hit in PvE, and resource specialisation is getting further rewarded and emphasised by the underlying mechanics of the game, you want to dilute the class further into hybridisation into a second resource.

There's an old saying for that;

"Jack of all trades, master of none..."


At the end of the day I am arguing for the general improvement of a class whose skills have always been magicka-based and whose morph choices have always had lame unused ones in place.

You want to change the class into a weaksauce version of itself because you can't see the wood for the trees, or that you shouldn't have chosen the class for a primary stamina build in the first place, and you pour scorn on those who don't agree with your suggested fundamental redesign.

As for those who think putting the word 'Troll' in their one-line posts makes them look like they know what they are talking about, well...

I'll go for one more round.

1.) I agree, making a skill require stamina does require a lot of consideration. If not careful you end up like some nightblades and wanting to use ambush with a magicka build. I get that. However, if we were to look at Shearing Strike for DK's, many didn't like how unstable flames became the stamina morph. However, from a build perspective you could have a stamina dk grab burning embers, not only for the heal but also for the fact that it uses their magicka pool rather than stamina pool. I found on my heavy armor dk knight that using the magicka morph was better since I often had it spare and lasted long enough for the heal to trigger. I would not pick unstable flame, despite being a stamina based character despite that is what the skill scales off of since from my experience stamina was far to valuable. Even with a stamina build both morphs, both magicka and stamina were viable for use. That is what I want, the skills to provide viable options and choice to suit individual play-styles.

2.) Yes, I know that i'm prone to use "inferior" builds (made a medium armor, 2h templar a long time ago when all three were not that well off together). However the philosophy of this game is any class can preform any role in their own unique way, and with the toolkit the sorcerer provides pre 1.6 I was very well off, and also pre 1.6 the sorcerer class define lent itself to light armor builds given the skill cost. But just because sorcerers were the only class to have light armor in the character select doesn't mean they should be forced to that role.

3.) I chose the sorcerer because all 3 skill trees were of value to me, where as the other classes had about 2. I reached this decision on my own and would expect others to reach very different opinions on their own. Is it wrong that we all benefit from our class choice by being able to utilize what defines the class?

4.) Going back to what I said above, the game is designed around the idea that all classes can fit any role, hence why weapons and armor choices aren't class restricted. As of now the other classes can do each role in their own unique and effective way. Forgive me for not understanding how the sorcerer class is unable to satisfy both of our interest.

5.) If you check my signature you will see "Sorcerer Community Change Suggestions," a collection of pre 1.6 ideas that I gathered in hopes that some of them would have been picked up. A vast minority of the changes are "make skills stamina because science" but are instead tweaks of skill functions and even entirely new skills. As an end goal, I as a stamina based sorcerer would like to use my class defining skills in my play style. They don't need to be the heavy hitters or carry my build in terms of damage, I didn't even pick the class for that. I would expect to at least use my skills for utility, and changes to make all skills/morphs more unique and meaningful would not get in the way of that.

6.) Pasted from another thread's response to you.

• Arena: Sorcerers are a strange breed of magic users. They are those born with the potential of casting spells, but with no power to generate spell points internally. This does not make them any less powerful; in fact, Sorcerers have the potential to be the most powerful of all the Mage classes. This is because of the unique way in which they manipulate magic. Sorcerers are in essence magical batteries. They absorb spell points from spells that are targeted at them. Sorcerers may absorb up to triple their Intelligence in spell points. If a spell is absorbed, the Sorcerer takes no damage, but instead adds the spell's total power points, divided by the Sorcerer's level, to his/her spell points. These points are permanent until used. If the Sorcerer fails to absorb a directed spell, they take the normal effects, whatever they may be. The chance a Sorcerer will absorb the spell is equal to the sum of his Intelligence and Willpower divided by two. Sorcerers do not regenerate spell points and they do not absorb points from their own spells. If a Sorcerer has absorbed spell points to his/her maximum, he/she will be unable to absorb more spells, and will take damage from spells just as any other character. Regardless of these restrictions, they have the ability to cast more powerful spells because when they are fully charged, they have more spell points than any other Mage class. They can therefore cast more powerful spells at lower levels, provided that the spell is in their spellbook.
  Weapons: Any
  Armor: Leather or chain only
• Daggerfall: Sorcerers are quite adept at the manipulation of magic, although they do not generate their own magical energy. Rather, they absorb the energy of spells cast at them, and use this energy to power their own spells.
• Morrowind: Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos.
  *Morrowinds descriptions not as helpful, here are their skills
  Major: Enchanting, Conjuration, Mysticism, Destruction, Alteration
  Minor: Illusion, Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Marksman, Shortblade
• Oblivion: Besting the most well-equipped fighters, they rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor.
  Major Attributes: Endurance, Intelligence
  Skills: Alchemy, Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, Heavy Armor, Mysticism, Restoration

As a class sorcerers are magick based sponges. Yes they cast spells, and up until ESO all skills did so, because you didn't have things like "Snipe" or "Wrecking Blow." "Stamina" skills were just how you used your weapon to attack, not a spell that uses stamina. If you look at their past descriptions there were games where the class couldn't even use any armor but Heavy. Even the npcs in Skyrim use classes and the sorcerer class uses destruction, alteration, illusion, one-handed, and heavy armor. If anything they should have had that as their default armor on the character select screen. If anything the class should have capacitor replaced by a passive that ups magicka resistance with lower magicka and abosrbs some from enemy spells like how the class worked in the past, could be interesting. Also, with that, am I in error?

7.) Pre 1.6 all class skill lines were purely magicka so with that all classes should be restricted to pure casters. With the changes every other class received in 1.6 they can do everything uniquely and well. Forgive me again for not understanding what is preventing the sorcerer from being able to do other roles. I believe each class should be able to be able to work in any role, in their unique way. A templar doesn't dodge to do that, a Dragonknight doesn't stealth to do that, so you can't a sorcerer use sorcery to do the same? But in the current meta that isn't viable given the uncapped resources. Again, I believe it is selfish to 'believe' that a class should fit only one vision for the class when all the others can fit all roles in their own unique and effective way.

8.) I understand here what you are against. As before that thread I made offers many ideas for magicka based builds, and also offers suggestions to allow them to do any role in their own way. It isn't one or the other, it can be both. Magicka builds don't need to suffer for variety to be offered to the class. The balance for hybrid builds did get heavily skewed from 1.6 and hopefully something changes to make doing anything from pure stamina or magicka worthwhile but thats aside from the point. Our goals aren't opposed, we both want our class to be more interesting with valuable choices and we can both get that. I, and other non "optimal" sorcerers, would like to be able to use our class for more than just magicka dps, that involves making the class useful for both healers and stamina users within the current meta, and if the other classes are anything to go by there is room for choice if that degree of variety is allowed.

I would offer you, and anyone interested, to look at the thread of ideas from pre 1.6 and see if anything sticks that could help.

And for the record, Crystal Blast was the most common option to become a stamina skill given its low use. Would you suggest either an alternative to the very valuable Crystal Fragments or would a stamina morph of that be going to far, given how valuable Frags is I find it unlikely an alternative morph could take sorcerer casters from it.

Trewr

Thanks to the OP and everyone trying to bring Sorc up to the same level as other classes. It seems some people prefer we have less options for play. Don't really know what to say about that.

Dekkameron

Even though Sorc has few stamina morphs, i think certain magicka based abilities like critical surge and bound armaments certainly help loads with weapon heavy builds (like most of the ones i make) I don't think it's that bad really. i mean i generally roll with 3 weapon abilities on each bar and the rest is support/buff/CC

exiledtyrant

I would suggests anyone actually concerned with the actual discussion of Stamina and it's morphs with regards to how the Sorcerer class should handle them do so, without being dragged into Byrom's rant on how they disagrees with ESO's new design philosophy . This amount of trolling and blatant thread derailment is appalling at this point. Do not try to fix this broken record.
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On topic:

When looking at stamina builds for my sorcerer I always run into 3 problems that either forces me to play predominately magicka, or full magicka.

1. Where does my damage come from?
2. Where does my utility come from?
3. Where does my survivability come from?

1. First let’s look at “Where does my damage come from?". I have to first consider that my damage as a stamina sorcerer has to be physical or at the very least effected by armor. It also has to scale with weapon damage with stamina because of the new system. So that leaves you with a hand full of generic weapon skills, a few underperforming fighter guild skills, and no class defining damage skills like the rest of the classes. If you don't want to be two handed you also set yourself at a handicap.

So to expand my stamina damage options for the class I would look to these morphs:

Crystal Blast, Daedric Tomb, Mage's Wrath, Unstable Clannfear, Summon Twilight Matriarch.

Crystal Blast - I like the prior suggestions that have crystal becoming a stamina version PBOE. I would like it to have a cast time of .5 and still retain the knockdown however.

Daedric Tomb - I liked an idea I saw previously that made this skill into a stamina based weapon imbue that caused explosions when you attacked with your weapon. That or make it a player centered aoe that pulses every few seconds. That way there is still time to counter the damage and immobilize but the damage is more reliable.

Mage's Wrath- Mage's fury in general is not the best execute and stamina outside of two handed lacks a real execute. A stamina version could help with this. Instead of an explosions it could do slightly higher initial damage and then allow weapons attacks to proc disintegration at a higher % the lower the health of the target is for 4 seconds.

Unstable Clannfear- One of the pets should scale with stamina. I picked this clannfear because its morph is more melee specific. I also believe it should increase Max hp, while summoned instead of healing when dead.

Summon Twilight Matriarch- This morph only recovers 12% of you max hp. I believe that this summon should scale with stamina and recover 25% max health to be of use.


2. Second let’s look at “Where does my utility come from?". I will be referring to utility as movement tools, buffs, and crowd control. Again utility that scales with stamina is much more desirable than magicka. Stamina has a fairly nice amount of crowd control tools and mobility. What it lacks however is in the buff department. Bound armaments is however c lass defining and unique. Morphs I would target to expand overall stamina utility options would be:

Critical surge, Shattering Prison, Rune Cage.

Critical Surge- Surge morphs are odd to begin with. Power surge offers spell damage although entropy outperforms in it every way. If you want the sorcery buff you want to use entropy not this buff. Hybrids can use it but it leaves other builds out. Critical surge is obviously weapon based. It offers nothing for spell damage, Weapon attacks have much higher crit chance potential, and have far less dots to waste the actual big crit heals on. Simply making it scale with stamina would fix the problem it presents to stamina users.

Shattering prison- The damage is weak and even when scaled up to multiple prisons blowing up at once it struggles to compete with 1 crystal frag proc. I would suggest a stamina cost and a new interaction such reducing the root duration to 3 and silencing those who break it early for 1.5 seconds.

Rune cage- Rune cage is an interesting morph and a lot of abilities work with. It also has a narrow scope of available uses. Then there is the potential ability to be game breaking as it can disorient red names through the world enabling entirely one sided fights. I went through a Cyrodil delve recently where I just rune caged and DOTed the boss over and over without them doing a single attack. I would suggest stamina scaling while debuffing the victim with the fracture debuffs, or a slot effect allowing increased heavy attack damage on disoriented foes.

3. Lastly “Where does my survivability come from?”. Magicka has this advantage in spades. Lots of heals and almost all shields are afforded to magicka. If you are stamina you have the momentum heal (must be two handed), you have the blood craze heal (only works some of the time due to bleed immunities and shields), and vigor (fairly high HOT but it's not out healing magicka in the slightest). For shields you have a tiny shield from shield charge. Lastly you have block and dodge. Sorcerers don't necessarily synergize with dodging or blocking well and certainly not better than other classes. What we have left is 1 class defining survivability option in dark deal. Morphs I would look target to increase stamina options for survivability are:

Dark Deal

Dark deal- This morph is almost perfect. Its duration is too long and it does nothing to help the smaller resource pool. At the moment a maxed out dark deal trades 12% max magicka for 12% stamina and 12% health each second for 4 seconds. Seems like a lot and after the channel it is a lot. The problem is the channel time and the resource drain. This could be a class defining skill if 3 things happen to the entire skill and its morphs. Reduce the channel 2 two seconds. Bump the resource drain and the resource gain to 25%. Give minor endurance or minor intellect depending one resource drained for 10 seconds after the channel stops. Now you have a sizable heal and your pool gets a little help righting itself after such a large transfer. You are still discouraged from spamming such a large resource refill, but it actually does its job.


Conclusion:

In a perfect scenario I would like to see 4 of these morphs implemented (hopefully 2 damage, 1 utility and 1 survivability options). They don't necessarily have to be mine but that amount would make it easier to diversify and define the stamina play style for sorcerers in my opinion.

Cody

I want to make a sorc, but the lack of stamina morphs keeps me from doing so.

I do not like playing magicka builds!:/ I never have in any ES game; and that wont change now by gum!

yes, I, an 18 yr high school-er, just said by gum. let the trolling begin!:D

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Why stamina sorc doesn't work in 1.6, why other class stam builds do, and what needs to change before stamina sorc will ever be viable again

First, a little background. Here is why stamina is viable for other classes: Utility spells, (that cost magicka) that support stamina. By definition a stamina build uses stamina for PRIMARY DPS and uses magicka for utility. Here are a few examples.

Templar: Repentance (no cost), returns stamina and health on kills, blazing shield or other morph (magicka utility)for damage mitigation, heaving hitting stamina ability (biting jabs)
Dragonknight: Green Dragon Blood (magicka cost) returns health and increases stam regen, damage shield for damage mitigation, several utility spells that increase weapon crit or weapon damage plus two heavy hitting stamina dots/debuffs
Nightblade: Stamina based charge, damage dealer, and execute. plus fear and cloak for damage mitigation/utility

This is what stamina sorc has to compete with. This is why three of the best stamina sorcs I know in this game switched to Dragonknight.

This is why stamina sorc doesn't work in 1.6

• Sorcerer utility spells are too expensive for stamina users. Critical surge (besides being broken due to CD on dots) costs way too much. I have issues with using this skill on a magicka build let alone stamina build.
• The nerf of the expert mage passive in favor of spell damage was also a blow to stamina sorcs and increased costs even further.
• The 1.6 nerf to resources (and health) made hybrid builds unplayable. My character has about 15-20K less resources than I did in 1.5. My stam sorc had 2.5K health, 2.5K stamina, and 2k magicka. This is impossible now with the inflated stats.
• Because of this, "stamina sorc" in 1.5 was primarily a hybrid build using both magicka and stamina skills for DPS. For most players, it was NEVER a true stamina build. This is a very important point. It still relied on Crystal frag procs and mages fury (both very cheap skills) for CC and DPS.

Here is what needs to change for stam sorc to be competitive with the other class stamina builds.

1. The cost of magicka based utility spells need to decrease. Here is how you do it without making existing magicka stacking builds even more powerful:
   Expert mage passive: If magicka pool > stamina pool, increase spell power per sorc ability slotted.
   If stamina pool > magicka pool: reduce cost of ALL sorc skills by 10%.
2. Critical surge needs its own cost reduction - beyond the 10% decrease described above. Its currently too expensive even for magicka builds for what it does. The CD issue still persists making the skill ineffective but that is a different issue.
3. Melee attacks should remove the increased magicka cost of bolt escape and morphs. Stamina users use this skill offensively, for positioning - not to run away. The main issue everyone has with BE is when it is spammed and used as an actual escape. If the four second timer (that makes the skill cost 50% more) was removed (upon using a MELEE weapon light/heavy or weapon skill), it could still be used smartly in offensive situations without a prohibitive magicka cost. This would give stam sorcs some degree of the mobility that magicka sorcs have without making magicka sorcs any more powerful and still taxing BE if used to actually escape. This change would also make Sorc tanking viable as you could taunt a boss, bolt, then taunt again effectively kiting bosses in PvE with a tank build heavily invested in stamina. It would be a fun mechanic, and give sorcs some incentive to stay in the fight rather than running away.
4. Sorcs need some stam/health return utility as other classes have. There are several ways to do this. Make the morph of dark exchange (that costs mag and returns health/stam) instant or remove the snare on it at least. Make bound armaments give minor stam regen or lightning form give major stam regen.

That is it for now but without some of those changes, namely reduction of cost of utility spells, stam sorc (i.e. Hybid sorc) is dead.