Sorcerer Suggestions (for overall class balance)

Erock25

I decided to make my own post about this instead of just letting it sit in the Sorc feedback thread, which appears to be forgotten. Maybe I'm a narcissist but I feel like my suggestions are too good to just let them be buried in a multi page topic.

There has been a ton of Sorc feedback on the forums since 1.6 hit and I was attempting to let everything settle before giving my overall feedback. Feel free to comment, offer your own suggestions, call me horrible names, and if you are a ZOS employee .... copy paste it into your to-do list .

The objectives I tried to fulfill in my suggested changes

• Give Magicka DPS builds more utility to a group and raid
• Give Magicka DPS builds a way to increase their damage if they are allowed to reliably stay in melee range
• Give Stamina DPS builds some synergy with their Sorcerer skills
• Give some love to the Healer and Tank Sorc
• Suggest changes that are realistic in concept and require low effort to execute

Power Surge - Duration increased to 40 seconds (to 43 seconds on Rank4). Provides yourself with Minor Prophecy (3% spell crit)

• I think Power Surge has been marginalized by Entropy, especially considering the Mage's Guild - Might of the Guild Passive. The heal component of Surge is now just an ancillary effect in my opinion because of how DOTs activate the cooldown and I believe extended duration is the easiest way to make Power Surge a valid contender to Entropy.

Critical Surge - Cost reduced by 40%. Provides yourself with Major Endurance (+20% stam regen) for 10 seconds.

• Just as Power Surge is marginalized by Entropy, I believe Critical Surge is inferior to the 2h skill Rally. Yes we can access this Major Brutality without using 2h and that is an advantage, but I still think this skill needs more oomph. Currently Critical Surge has a HUGE cost for a stamina build, and a 40% reduction seems fair. Also, Sorc do not have access to any in combat stamina regen and Major Endurance is a great fit here. It is important that this spell does not switch to a stamina morph because I feel it is important that stamina builds have access to magicka dumps that do not scale on spell power/total magicka.

Volatile Familiar - Changed back to instant cast. Increase the melee damage the pet does by 100% (it still isn't much).

• This morph is completely useless without it being instant cast. This should be the second pet (besides Twilight) go to option for a magicka Sorc.

Clannfear - Reduce cast time to 0.5 seconds and change this to a stamina morph.

• My preferred change for this ability may be impossible, but if it is possible, it would add a layer of fun and useful gameplay for a Tank Sorc. I think if you manually command this pet to attack anything (default binding is Y + left click), it should also taunt it regardless of who is on the threat table. This pet has decent HP, but it isn't going to hold up long against most enemies (especially bosses) in group PVE content so it will not be overpowered.

Daedric Prey - Increase the additional pet damage to 50% and refocus all pets to attack this target.

• I do not think using Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward to get the most out of your pets is a useful mechanic. For starters, it means a lot of your skill bar and morph choices need to be dedicated to pets. Also Hardened Ward is a MUST HAVE for any magicka Sorc who wants to PVP and it would be very helpful to be able to spec Hardened Ward instead of Empowered Ward and still get the most out of your pets.

Bound Aegis - Also provides Minor Mending buff (8% healing done increase)

• A small buff that gives Sorc a reason to be a healer.

Empowered Ward - This morph will cost magicka but will now scale on health.

• I think this is important for a stamina Sorc to have a damage shield. The reason we are scaling on health here is so that this skill is stronger for tanks. A stamina build with a stamina scaling shield would be over the top with their ability to dodge roll, break free, block and have more mitigations than a light armor user underneath the damage shield. Keeping this morph as a magicka cost prevents high sustain stamina builds from spamming this spell and scaling it on health instead of magicka ensures that the shield will still be worth using even in a stamina build, which most likely will have close to a minimum in max magicka.

Crystal Blast - Melee range stamina morph that is just like Crystal Frag (minus the knockdown) and procs on activation of any skill that cost stamina. Does slightly less dmg than a magicka build Crystal Frag but also provides the Sorc and his group Minor Brutality (increase weapon damage by 5%) for 5 seconds.

• Provides a dmg stamina morph, keeps the Crystal proc gameplay consistent between builds, while giving the Sorc a minor group buff and Dark Deal heals.

Suppression Field - change the Minor Protection buff to a Major Protection buff.

• This has been nerfed too hard and needs a bit more group utility.

Exploitation Passive - Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Major Prophecy (10% spell crit) to a Sorcerer and his group (important it is group only so multiple Sorc would be needed to keep this running for the entire raid) for 5/10 seconds.

• Gives Sorc a strong reason to be a part of raids and groups.

Daedric Bomb (rename of Daedric Tomb) - Sorcerer places a Daedric Bomb on the ground (double the activation radius of a single mine) which takes 5 seconds to activate and when triggered, explodes for massive damage.

• The damage done here is the real question. It should be powerful because it takes coordination between the group and gives Sorc a reason to be in melee range.

Also Twilight needs to be no more than a 0.5 second cast. Considering that these pets die in some encounters and there is no reason not to reduce the cast time.

Anyways that is my list. What it boils down to is increasing pet damage slightly (Volatile doing more passive dmg), giving magicka Sorc a melee range DPS boost (that shouldn't affect PVP at all), giving useful group buffs to the Sorc that make them must haves for group PVE, and helping out the stam/healer/tank Sorc as well.

Snit

I like your list. It would address every reasonable issue I have with the class. I particularly like the fact that it only buffs the currently under-performing specs (Healers and Stam Builds).

I don't have enough data to know whether sorcs need buffs for magicka DPS. My personal experience says we're fine, but my sample size is insufficient to conclude much. We're fine in PvP, too, for both burst and "trollolol" sword-and-board tank builds. PvE healing and Stamina builds are the two clear needs, and I hope ZOS does something along the lines you suggest.

byrom101b16_ESO

Where is the melee range magicka dps boost here?

Erock25

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Where is the melee range magicka dps boost here?

Daedric Bomb is if they get the damage right. Considering the new mechanic for bosses ....

• Daedric Mines
  • All boss monsters and any monster with boss immunities will be immune to damage from this ability for one second after being affected by a Daedric Mine.

... I figure that the single Bomb that is twice the radius and three times the damage of a single Mine with a 5 second activation delay is an interesting way to add extra dmg if you can make it into melee range and also adds at least a small layer of coordination with the tank. It is a way to add some PVE DPS while not affecting PVP, considering Minefield still does more dmg, covers more area, potentially procs more dark deal heals, has a shorter activation time and can CC multiple enemies.

byrom101b16_ESO

I don't use it - have they fixed the 'proximity detonation' mechanics vs. bosses or is it still underperforming?

Erock25

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I don't use it - have they fixed the 'proximity detonation' mechanics vs. bosses or is it still underperforming?

I'm not sure specifically what you are referring to. I know that they fixed an issue where bosses hitboxes were larger than intended in regards to activating the daedric mines. That issue, along with the increase in damage in 1.6, led ZOS to implement the patch note that I wrote in my above post that gives bosses a 1 second immunity to the dmg from mines. That is why I suggested that Daedric Tomb be changed to a single Mine or Bomb or whatever you want to call it that does big damage.

Fayaburn

Snit wrote: »

I like your list. It would address every reasonable issue I have with the class. I particularly like the fact that it only buffs the currently under-performing specs (Healers and Stam Builds).

I don't have enough data to know whether sorcs need buffs for magicka DPS. My personal experience says we're fine, but my sample size is insufficient to conclude much. We're fine in PvP, too, for both burst and "trollolol" sword-and-board tank builds. PvE healing and Stamina builds are the two clear needs, and I hope ZOS does something along the lines you suggest.

I don't think Stamina Sorcerer is under-performing. Lacking synergies? Absolutely, but not underperforming. It is on par with the other classes Stamina DPS.

Erock25

Fayaburn wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

I like your list. It would address every reasonable issue I have with the class. I particularly like the fact that it only buffs the currently under-performing specs (Healers and Stam Builds).

I don't have enough data to know whether sorcs need buffs for magicka DPS. My personal experience says we're fine, but my sample size is insufficient to conclude much. We're fine in PvP, too, for both burst and "trollolol" sword-and-board tank builds. PvE healing and Stamina builds are the two clear needs, and I hope ZOS does something along the lines you suggest.

I don't think Stamina Sorcerer is under-performing. Lacking synergies? Absolutely, but not underperforming. It is on par with the other classes Stamina DPS.

Which is why Crystal Blast morph I suggest will not add much DPS at all. In theory, Wrecking Blow will still hit harder (even considering the cast time) to Crystal Blast. What Crystal Blast does is vary the combat, give you a minor group buff, and proc Dark Deal heals as well as giving us another instant attack (if proc'd) to block cast in PVP. The other stamina additions I suggest involved in combat stam regen (which sorcs have no access to) and things that support a tank more than a dps sorc.

Fayaburn

Erock25 wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

I like your list. It would address every reasonable issue I have with the class. I particularly like the fact that it only buffs the currently under-performing specs (Healers and Stam Builds).

I don't have enough data to know whether sorcs need buffs for magicka DPS. My personal experience says we're fine, but my sample size is insufficient to conclude much. We're fine in PvP, too, for both burst and "trollolol" sword-and-board tank builds. PvE healing and Stamina builds are the two clear needs, and I hope ZOS does something along the lines you suggest.

I don't think Stamina Sorcerer is under-performing. Lacking synergies? Absolutely, but not underperforming. It is on par with the other classes Stamina DPS.

Which is why Crystal Blast morph I suggest will not add much DPS at all. In theory, Wrecking Blow will still hit harder (even considering the cast time) to Crystal Blast. What Crystal Blast does is vary the combat, give you a minor group buff, and proc Dark Deal heals as well as giving us another instant attack (if proc'd) to block cast in PVP. The other stamina additions I suggest involved in combat stam regen (which sorcs have no access to) and things that support a tank more than a dps sorc.

Yeah, I was answering specifically to @Snit 's claim. I mostly agree with your proposed modifications. However, I would rather see your version of Empowered ward still cost magicka.

Erock25

Fayaburn wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

I like your list. It would address every reasonable issue I have with the class. I particularly like the fact that it only buffs the currently under-performing specs (Healers and Stam Builds).

I don't have enough data to know whether sorcs need buffs for magicka DPS. My personal experience says we're fine, but my sample size is insufficient to conclude much. We're fine in PvP, too, for both burst and "trollolol" sword-and-board tank builds. PvE healing and Stamina builds are the two clear needs, and I hope ZOS does something along the lines you suggest.

I don't think Stamina Sorcerer is under-performing. Lacking synergies? Absolutely, but not underperforming. It is on par with the other classes Stamina DPS.

Which is why Crystal Blast morph I suggest will not add much DPS at all. In theory, Wrecking Blow will still hit harder (even considering the cast time) to Crystal Blast. What Crystal Blast does is vary the combat, give you a minor group buff, and proc Dark Deal heals as well as giving us another instant attack (if proc'd) to block cast in PVP. The other stamina additions I suggest involved in combat stam regen (which sorcs have no access to) and things that support a tank more than a dps sorc.

Yeah, I was answering specifically to @Snit 's claim. I mostly agree with your proposed modifications. However, I would rather see your version of Empowered ward still cost magicka.

That is probably a good idea considering it isn't scaling on stamina anyways and that I propose adding two other stamina morphs already (Crystal Blast and Clannfear). This means a stamina sorc would be maintaining a cost reduced crit surge, probably thundering presence or boundless storm, and most likely have the magicka left over to cast Empowered Ward occasionally, but not able to spam cast the shield. I will amend the OP.

Tankqull

i would add
expert mage: additionaly grants 10-15% dmg to staff light/heavy attacks

and ffs fix critability of channeled heavyattacks (lightning/resto).

Erock25

Tankqull wrote: »

i would add
expert mage: additionaly grants 10-15% dmg to staff light/heavy attacks

and ffs fix critability of channeled heavyattacks (lightning/resto).

If my parses are anything like other magicka sorc out there, 15% increase to heavy attacks will result in a huge damage increase. I considered the idea of having Expert Mage grant 3% spell power per slotted Sorc ability, but felt that maybe that should be considered later. It is true that a petless magicka sorc isn't seeing much DPS increase with these changes. It really is just 3% spell crit and half the upkeep time on Power Surge, but I'm hopeful the extra DPS if you're allowed in melee range from Daedric Bomb will be significant. The 10% spell crit from Exploitation passive really only frees up an additional ability slot for us where we would be using Inner Light. A pet Sorc is seeing a DPS improvement by having Volatile Familiar do more passive damage than Clannfear does now. The real bonus for PVE magicka Sorc in my opinion is that they now have useful group buffs in Exploitation passive and Suppression field getting the 20% dmg reduction. Imagine a raid leader thinking about that last slot to fill in the raid and being like OH YEAH we need that fourth Sorc so that group doesn't have to buff their own spell crit. Of course that point is marginalized if you have stamina focused groups, but you get the idea.

Snit

Fayaburn wrote: »

I don't think Stamina Sorcerer is under-performing.

I do

But you probably mean DPS output. 2H's are so good, you can probably pick "Goblin Chambermaid" as a class and produce good DPS numbers.

I mean overall performance, which includes survivability options and build flexibility. Stamina sorcs find much less value in the class-defining abilities (Hardened Ward, Bolt Escape, Curse or Crystal Frags), so their overall performance suffers. I don't see any sorc stamina morphs that make me think, "Yeah, that's going to be awesome."

Fayaburn

Snit wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

I don't think Stamina Sorcerer is under-performing.

I do

But you probably mean DPS output. 2H's are so good, you can probably pick "Goblin Chambermaid" as a class and produce good DPS numbers.

I mean overall performance, which includes survivability options and build flexibility. Stamina sorcs find much less value in the class-defining abilities (Hardened Ward, Bolt Escape, Curse or Crystal Frags), so their overall performance suffers. I don't see any sorc stamina morphs that make me think, "Yeah, that's going to be awesome."

Which is why I said that imo the stam Sorc is not under-performing as he is able to produce correct DPS numbers, but is really lacking in synergy with this resource.

SuperSayinJesus

3 changes for Storm Calling tree i would like to see

1. I would love to see Surge increased in duratation to be on par with the two hand skill Rally or even longer because it cost more resourses. its same buff for stam users why dose it need to be shorter and cost more.

2. The new passive Expert Mage dose nothing for stam users. i would suggest a +light and heavy attacks increase here around 5-8%(whatever balance is needed).This would benifit all specs and offer a unique passive no other class has.

3. Mages Wrath. Would be cool to see a stam morph inplace of the current deals more dmg morph that resotres hp on killing blow like the nightblade execute. The other morph still resotes magicka and then maybe just add the bonus dmg from the previous morph to the base skill so it dose more dmg or take it away either way i like the idea of a stam execute that resotres hp both for melee dps and possibly tank utility.

SuperSayinJesus

2 changes i would like to see made to the Daedric Summoning tree

1. Hardened Ward scale off max hp is a interesting idea (pts testing needed for sure i bet) both moprhs cost magicka still and its the class self heal like dragons blood for dks. Scaling off hp would make sorc tanks damn good, probly too good.

2. Rebate the 1st passive in the tree isnt all that usefull anymore now that pets stay alive longer and dosnt decrease magicka. so i would love to see this increase spell resistance by the same ammount as the dragonknight passive. WIth the new spell resist added there Bound Aegis magicka morph could be changed to increase heavy dmg just like the stam morph insted of the small spell ressit it has there now. or anything usefull now that we have the spell resist somewhere else.

This is the tankiest sorc tree so if sorc tanks are lacking the changes should be made in this tree to improve them. with these 2 changes making them more like dk skills that obviously are good tanks.

Erock25

It would be disastrous for the magicka Sorc if Hardened Ward started to scale off of HP. I suggested that Empowered Ward starts to scale off of HP for Sorc tanks. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom is Eric Wrobel (sp?) still on the stam sorc case? I'd love it if some of these suggestions were implemented.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Erock25 wrote: »

Is Eric Wrobel (sp?) still on the stam sorc case? I'd love it if some of these suggestions were implemented.

Yep, he sure is. We'll send along this thread to him and his team. Thanks!

Grao

Erock25 wrote: »

I decided to make my own post about this instead of just letting it sit in the Sorc feedback thread, which appears to be forgotten. Maybe I'm a narcissist but I feel like my suggestions are too good to just let them be buried in a multi page topic.

There has been a ton of Sorc feedback on the forums since 1.6 hit and I was attempting to let everything settle before giving my overall feedback. Feel free to comment, offer your own suggestions, call me horrible names, and if you are a ZOS employee .... copy paste it into your to-do list .

The objectives I tried to fulfill in my suggested changes

• Give Magicka DPS builds more utility to a group and raid
• Give Magicka DPS builds a way to increase their damage if they are allowed to reliably stay in melee range
• Give Stamina DPS builds some synergy with their Sorcerer skills
• Give some love to the Healer and Tank Sorc
• Suggest changes that are realistic in concept and require low effort to execute

Power Surge - Duration increased to 40 seconds (to 43 seconds on Rank4). Provides yourself with Minor Prophecy (3% spell crit)

• I think Power Surge has been marginalized by Entropy, especially considering the Mage's Guild - Might of the Guild Passive. The heal component of Surge is now just an ancillary effect in my opinion because of how DOTs activate the cooldown and I believe extended duration is the easiest way to make Power Surge a valid contender to Entropy.

Critical Surge - Cost reduced by 40%. Provides yourself with Major Endurance (+20% stam regen) for 10 seconds.

• Just as Power Surge is marginalized by Entropy, I believe Critical Surge is inferior to the 2h skill Rally. Yes we can access this Major Brutality without using 2h and that is an advantage, but I still think this skill needs more oomph. Currently Critical Surge has a HUGE cost for a stamina build, and a 40% reduction seems fair. Also, Sorc do not have access to any in combat stamina regen and Major Endurance is a great fit here. It is important that this spell does not switch to a stamina morph because I feel it is important that stamina builds have access to magicka dumps that do not scale on spell power/total magicka.

Volatile Familiar - Changed back to instant cast. Increase the melee damage the pet does by 100% (it still isn't much).

• This morph is completely useless without it being instant cast. This should be the second pet (besides Twilight) go to option for a magicka Sorc.

Clannfear - Reduce cast time to 0.5 seconds and change this to a stamina morph.

• My preferred change for this ability may be impossible, but if it is possible, it would add a layer of fun and useful gameplay for a Tank Sorc. I think if you manually command this pet to attack anything (default binding is Y + left click), it should also taunt it regardless of who is on the threat table. This pet has decent HP, but it isn't going to hold up long against most enemies (especially bosses) in group PVE content so it will not be overpowered.

Daedric Prey - Increase the additional pet damage to 50% and refocus all pets to attack this target.

• I do not think using Daedric Prey and Empowered Ward to get the most out of your pets is a useful mechanic. For starters, it means a lot of your skill bar and morph choices need to be dedicated to pets. Also Hardened Ward is a MUST HAVE for any magicka Sorc who wants to PVP and it would be very helpful to be able to spec Hardened Ward instead of Empowered Ward and still get the most out of your pets.

Bound Aegis - Also provides Minor Mending buff (8% healing done increase)

• A small buff that gives Sorc a reason to be a healer.

Empowered Ward - This morph will cost magicka but will now scale on health.

• I think this is important for a stamina Sorc to have a damage shield. The reason we are scaling on health here is so that this skill is stronger for tanks. A stamina build with a stamina scaling shield would be over the top with their ability to dodge roll, break free, block and have more mitigations than a light armor user underneath the damage shield. Keeping this morph as a magicka cost prevents high sustain stamina builds from spamming this spell and scaling it on health instead of magicka ensures that the shield will still be worth using even in a stamina build, which most likely will have close to a minimum in max magicka.

Crystal Blast - Melee range stamina morph that is just like Crystal Frag (minus the knockdown) and procs on activation of any skill that cost stamina. Does slightly less dmg than a magicka build Crystal Frag but also provides the Sorc and his group Minor Brutality (increase weapon damage by 5%) for 5 seconds.

• Provides a dmg stamina morph, keeps the Crystal proc gameplay consistent between builds, while giving the Sorc a minor group buff and Dark Deal heals.

Suppression Field - change the Minor Protection buff to a Major Protection buff.

• This has been nerfed too hard and needs a bit more group utility.

Exploitation Passive - Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Major Prophecy (10% spell crit) to a Sorcerer and his group (important it is group only so multiple Sorc would be needed to keep this running for the entire raid) for 5/10 seconds.

• Gives Sorc a strong reason to be a part of raids and groups.

Daedric Bomb (rename of Daedric Tomb) - Sorcerer places a Daedric Bomb on the ground (double the activation radius of a single mine) which takes 5 seconds to activate and when triggered, explodes for massive damage.

• The damage done here is the real question. It should be powerful because it takes coordination between the group and gives Sorc a reason to be in melee range.

Also Twilight needs to be no more than a 0.5 second cast. Considering that these pets die in some encounters and there is no reason not to reduce the cast time.

Anyways that is my list. What it boils down to is increasing pet damage slightly (Volatile doing more passive dmg), giving magicka Sorc a melee range DPS boost (that shouldn't affect PVP at all), giving useful group buffs to the Sorc that make them must haves for group PVE, and helping out the stam/healer/tank Sorc as well.

Another post on Sorcerers without a proper response from the Dev team. Have you noticed Sorcerers are the only class that hasn't been adjusted after 1.6?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Is Eric Wrobel (sp?) still on the stam sorc case? I'd love it if some of these suggestions were implemented.

Yep, he sure is. We'll send along this thread to him and his team. Thanks!

Here go my list of suggestions again:

Daedric Summoning

Summon Storm Atronach
Status: Good
Comment: This ultimate gives good DPS for Single target fights or AoEs depending on the chosen morph. If anything should be improved is its Utility. Currently the Synergy only affects the Atronach and the one person activating the synergy. If the entire group got the buff its use would be far more significant, even if the buff duration had to be shortened for balance reasons.

Unstable Familiar
Status: Needs Improvements
Comment: Pets in general are problematic because they are toggles (must be on both bars). My suggestion would be to make both morphs of this pet Melee and give us control over the pet ability (costing the summoner Magicka or Stamina depending on the chosen morph). Making Volatile Familiar Melee (and Magicka based) would ensure the pet was positioned well to release its AoE and since using the pet's ability would have its own cost, there be no need to kill the pet for the effect to take place. As for the Clannfear, having control over its charge / Taunt (Stamina Based) would add incredible utility to sorcerers, not to mention making sorcerer tank not only a reality, but even desirable. (remove the Heal from this ability, move it to Hardened Ward)

Daedric Curse
Status: Ok
Comment: 1.6 made this ability a lot stronger, no doubt about it, but I'd still like to see at least one version of this spell be a real DoT and not a delayed Heavy Hit. Besides that, another interesting change could be made to Daedric Curse, so targets cursed would always be the pet's target.

Summon Winged Twilight
Status: Needs Improvements
Comment: This ability's damage is good, so I'd maintain that as it is and work on Flexibility and Utility. Once more, give the summoner the ability to choose to activate the pet's ability. Twilight Matriarch should be able to heal not only its summoner, but also allies, similarly to Mutagen - the heal should probably be instant instead of a short channel. As for the Restoring Twilight I'd suggest having a clear indicator of its range, besides making the pet restore not only Magicka, but also Stamina (Major Buffs) for 10 seconds. If the cost for this active is great enough, there would be no abuse.

Bound Armor
Status: Needs Improvements
Comment: Because this ability grants a % value of the sorcerer's armor and spell resist, the bonus is simply not worth 2 slots. I'd love to see this spell change to have one morph for tanking, granting extra Armor and Spell resist and one for DPS, granting extra Weapon Damage and Spell Damage, or simply Damage Dealt with both heavy and Light attacks (picture having your weapon changed instead of your Armor as it is currently - It would be awesome). Increase in base status is also a good idea, so Bound Aegis would offer both protection and extra health, while Bound Armaments would offer Damage and Magicka or Stamina depending on the greater resource pool.

Conjured Ward
Status: Good
Comment: This spell is just fine, if not a little too strong. My only suggestion would be to have Empowered Ward heal the pets affected to max health with every new cast. That would finally allow the developers to make pets immune to any other source of healing, therefore stopping pets from stealing heals during trials. Oh, with a cost increase and maybe weakening the size of the shield, I'd suggest Hardened Ward healed the caster for 35% of the Sorcerer's health - Refreshing the shield would not heal the caster, so there would be less potential for abuse.

Rebate
Status: Needs Improvements
Comment: Please return this passive to what it used to be. As it is on Live the passive is useless and not worth the 2 skill points spent on it.

Power Stone
Status: Perfect
Comment: No idea why this passive is on a Summoner School Tree, yet it is probably our best passive.

Daedric Protection
Status: Needs Improvements
Comment: Pretty simple fix, instead of providing Health Recovery make it increase or the Sorcerer Resource Pool or Resource Recovery. Stamina or Magicka depending on their greater resource pool.

Expert Summoner
Status: Needs Improvement
Comment: Contrary to some of my fellow sorcerers I don't believe this passive is horrible, I just think it should affect Bound Armor and its Morphs and affect different morphs of each pet differently, increasing its utility. For Volatile Familiar, increase AoE range, for Unstable Clannfear increase the duration of Taunt, for Twilight Matriarch increase the potency of the heal and for Restoring Twilight increases the duration of the buffs.

Dark Magic

Negate Magic
Status: Needs Improvement
Comment: I understand why this ability was so heavily nerfed, it was too strong in PvP and permitted ignoring too many Trial and Dungeon Mechanics. That said, Negate was always the Sorcerer's greatest Utility, like Nova is to Templars and Veil is to Nightblades. Give Suppression Field 30% Damage reduction instead of 8% and change Absorption Field to grant Major Heroism (extra Ult regeneration).

Crystal Shard
Status: Good
Comment: 1.6 put this ability in a good spot. If I were to change anything it would be making Crystal Blast an instant cast with a shorter animation (and likely lower damage or greater cost), finally giving Sorcerers a single target instant DPS attack to replace Force Pulse / Crushing Shock. It would be up to each player to chose between Using Crystal Fragments for the procs with low cost or use Crystal Blast as their main source of damage.

Encase
Status: Ok
Comment: Not an amazing ability, but it has its uses in Solo play and on AoE Fights. I am not sure what could be changed to make this more useful, except maybe if it could affect bosses (not as a snare) but simply as a damage source (target Immune to CC takes x% more damage from this ability).

Rune Prison
Status: Ok
Comment: Again an ability that works well for certain situations, the Defensive Rune can be useful in PvP and Rune Cage can be useful in PvE. If anything I'd suggest that Rune Cage cannot be broken by pet attacks on top of the DoTs.

Dark Exchange
Status: Needs Improvement
Comment: Possibly one of the most useless abilities in the game, which is sad for there is a lot of potential for such a spell, all we need is to be able to cast while using it. My suggestion is to make the morphs of this spell into toggles, to balance it out a little, make so that the morphs still root you as Dark Exchange does, but allow us to cast other spells (yes, even Bolt Escape) with it toggled on.

Daedric Mines
Status: Needs Reworking
Comment: Another ability I don't quite understand as it doesn't fit on Dark Magic alas, here my suggestions on how to change Mines and make them a little more interesting. Change Daedric Minefield to Daedric Boundaries, a wide wing around the caster that stuns AND snares any enemy that crosses its limits up to 5 targets. The Second morph should be a ground targeted rearming Mine that can rearm up to 3 times and both stuns and damages the one who activates it. Remember, for this ability to have any use in PvE, the damage on it must be high enough to compensate its cost and occupying a bar slot.

The passives for Dark Magic are surprisingly good though (trying to make this a little shorter). The only exception would be Persistence which, again, is useful for Solo play, but does little for PvP or late game PvE. Maybe Persistence could restore a small amount of Magicka and Stamina with each Dark Magic Spell cast, similarly to Blood Magic.

Storm Calling

Definitely our best Tree, so I have very little to say here.

Endless Fury: Make this morph return Magicka every time it "explodes" instead of on kill.

Lightning Form: Make Thundering presence a Stamina ability and give Boundless Storm a wider AoE Range.

Lightning Splash: On first press, have this ability reveal all Visible Enemies Hit Boxes within its range. It is very hard to use this skill as a DoT without knowing where to place it to affect certain targets, at least in PvE.

Surge: This ability used to be great, but it pales terribly in comparison to Entropy. The least Riot needs to do is considerably reduce its cost.

Expert Mage: This passive is great on 1.6, but losing its previous incarnation did increase the cost of every Storm Calling ability considerably. Please review those numbers, not all buffs must be hammered with a nerf.

Crescent

The sorcerer passives also need retooling. Several of their spells costs significantly more than other classes for similar spells that are weaker in effect. Look at Storm Form, just an armor boost that costs significantly more compared to other classes, and the aoe damage was nerfed to hell in beta. The damage nerf should be reverted.

Look at the daedric summoning passives. Health regen? The boost is worthless for most specs. Boost to pets? Too bad stamina builds can't even use pets since summon skills do not scale from stamina and weapon crit. Dark Magic passives tied to casting really expensive dark magic spells that stamina builds will rarely use, especially since most dark magic skills are weak and few people use them. Disintegrates has been nerfed to hell for the sake of pvp, so please just change it or split the skill balancing between pvp and pve.

Sorcerer is the one class whose class skills and trees are significantly more restricted in use exclusively for a magicka build. Daedric curse, crystal fragments, virtually anything that isn't surge (which costs a metric ton of magicka for stamina users) or storm form is either useless to stamina sorcerers or is too prohibitive in magicka cost for stamina sorcs to sustain.

The toggle system is also holding the sorcerer back, Daedric Summoning line will always hold the sorcerer down so long as each pet/daedric armor continues to occupy slots on both bars, 5 buttons is too few to allow maintaining an intteresting, versatile rotation.

Just look at it. If you take twilight matriarch and daedric armor, 2 of your slots are gone on both bars. That leaves you with 6 total slots (3 on each bar). Now, in PvE you need single target skills, aoe skills, defensive buffs, cc, and mobility. Moreover, encounters can be so anti-melee that stamina sorcerers usually want to include the bow as a backup weapon to their melee option, so you are even more limited if you take a toggle because one of the bow slots will definitely be snipe, and then you have poison arrow and a single skill left for aoe or cc, so you are going to be gimping yourself in some way with a 2h/bow slot (because 2h needs executioner and uppercut as nonnegotiables for dps).

The 5 slot bars cannot support the current toggle system without gimping the sorcerer's build options to begin with.

Moreover, the sorcerer's skills are so redundant. You have daedric armor and storm form and empowered ward. Each individually is not enough survivability on its own, so sorcerer survivability only thrives (in fact it is balanced around their combination) as a combination of these but with 5 slots bar this is too hefty a cost.

Ypu then have a bunch of sorcerer skills who all do the same thing, and that is damage. Crystal Fragments, the daedric summons, daedric curse. Because there simply aren't enough bar slots to accommodate all these in a bar without missing out on aoe/mage's wrath/cc/heal or survivability skills in addition to toggles, this creates a very bad situation. Look at liquid lightning, it just competes with destro staff aoe, and crystal fragment and daedric curse compete with single target damage spells. Basically, at any time people are just going to pick the one or two skills with most DPS output and neglect the rest, which ahs always been the case with daedric curse and the familiar.

You can't just have spells that simply do damage. They must have distinguishing utility that makes people choose between them based on utility they need, and they need to be standalones without needing multiple other skills to prop them in a rotation (basically, daedric curse is only used in a pet build for pve, which means if you take daedric curse you also have to occupy another of your precious 5 slots with a daedric summon to make use of the spell). Storm Form and Daedric Armor are the same concept of redundancy, both skills are inadequate in providing sufficient survivability on their own, and they step on both each other's toes when used together. Spells must have individual identity.

It's probable the sorcerer would be in a better place if the bar slots were increased to 10, after all FFXIV happened to support consoles with a larger number of binds, but I don't see this happening soon in ESO so sorcerer spells must be condensed enough in effect and toggle skill slot consumption removed, so that sorcerers can bring enough variety of strong, self-sufficient skills that allow their builds to compete with the other classes whose skills are not only cheaper in resource cost, but have more flexibility of use and cover more needs of gameplay.

For toggles I'd also suggest the volatile familiar treatment to make them more interesting skills. Basically, press the toggle skill again to trigger a specific utility on a cooldown for the summon. The twilight matriarch could use an aoe heal on command with x cooldown for the group, and the restoring twilight could do an aoe resource restoration for the group on y cooldown when commanded. The volatile familiar's aoe effect should be increased. The clannfear should apply an aoe stun on x cooldown that applies vulnerability on targets.

Make it so sorcerers have more utility and flexibility on their spells, reduce their outrageous costs (seriously, most of them have significantly larger costs than otehr classes for no reason, particularly the dark magic skills and the summons), and make it so stamina sorcreres have betetr access to all their spells besides just mere weapon buffs. Mage's Wrath, the summons, crystal fragments are all iconic spells of the class, yet stamina sorcerers lose all identity as a class by just filling their bars with weaponskills and the odd critical surge or entropy.

Mage's Wrath in fact has a morph nobody uses (aoe detonation damage increase, the aoe detonation is marginal to begin with so why not have morphs for each skill that make it usable for stamina builds)? Mage's Wrath on my stamina build would be so nice....

byrom101b16_ESO

I predicted weeks ago that some blinkered weaksauce hybridisation would be suggested by someone who is only interested in their own stamina Sorc. build. This thread isn't going to help Zenimax improve the class if they utilise it's central premise.

That useless magicka morphs be changed to stamina morphs... and worse than that - that one or two good magicka morphs be changed. Thundering Presence as a stamina morph?

Get real...

You improve something by taking away what makes it useless, and replacing it with something better for those already playing it to it's strengths.

You should replace useless magicka morphs with better magicka morphs.

Anyone wanting a Sorcerer that uses stamina obviously never read the description of the class, or what the word 'Sorcerer' means, or indeed have the slightest understanding of what the many MMO players who like playing casters actually want from a class who's name means 'spellcaster'.

They didn't roll Sorcerer to end up with a lame hybrid that only caters to a few noisy people on the forums.

Zenimax crammed classes into a classless IP and forced us all to play inside that.

Now we're LONG past making the choices we have based on what each class is supposed to mean, the stamina crowd should'nt be under any Illusions that the majority, or anything CLOSE to it want their 'wizards' changed into a hybrid hash of a class.

The Sorcerer does not have enough synergy, variability of choice or utility as it is with magicka... and the OP is suggesting taking even more of these things away in order to furnish a minority of players who want to use stamina???

Let me tell you what is really required...

... Some sorcerers want to be viable melee dps, viable tanks and viable healers.

Newsflash: NONE OF THESE THINGS REQUIRE STAMINA!

All of that can be done by changing the useless magicka morphs into useful ones that still use magicka but support these roles.

FACT: Stamina has no place in the role of a SORCERER if there is the slightest pretence of this being a game set in Tamriel as it has always been. What's more, it needs no place for the class to offer flexibility in all roles.

Blinkered and unimaginative thinking would try to convince you that stamina = melee dps/tanking. But this is a fallacy - and one pushed by the very few people who would see Sorcerers as a hybrid class which won't then fit the name.

Magicka sorcerers don't need bad morphs they don't use changed into stamina morphs they cannot viably use - they need they changed to decent choices.

Magicka sorcerers should be able to heal and tank viably, and using MAGIC to do it!

If Zenimax really want to split the class into a schizophrenic shadow of itself that gives the vast majority of magicka Sorc players even less choice than they have now, then the game will lose those players and the class will be further under-represented.

If Zenimax want to make THE magicka specialists in the game (their own class definition btw...) then they need to stick with magicka and make magicka work for tanking and healing roles.

It's laughably simple and keeps the most popular identity theme of the class entirely intact.

Anything else is pandering to a small number of players who don't seem to understand what the word Sorcerer means to the vast majority of people in the world... nor indeed what the word 'Sorcery' has ALWAYS meant in the IP.

Erock25

@byrom101b16_ESO

What a joke. I suggest nothing but improvements for magicka sorc and this is your response? You wrote all of that out and used terms like 'schizophrenic shadow' and 'blinkered weaksauce hybridisation' all because I suggest Crystal Blast (magicka Sorc will always use Frag) and Clannfear (Volatile getting magicka buffed) get switched to stamina morphs.

I suggest more magicka Sorc utility and DPS buffs than you do in your own suggestion thread and I am the one only interested in my own stamina build?

Crescent

Erock25 wrote: »

@byrom101b16_ESO

What a joke. I suggest nothing but improvements for magicka sorc and this is your response? You wrote all of that out and used terms like 'schizophrenic shadow' and 'blinkered weaksauce hybridisation' all because I suggest Crystal Blast (magicka Sorc will always use Frag) and Clannfear (Volatile getting magicka buffed) get switched to stamina morphs.

I suggest more magicka Sorc utility and DPS buffs than you do in your own suggestion thread and I am the one only interested in my own stamina build?

He's the very definition of bigotry. You really shouldn't have even dignified his petty diatribe with even a sentence.

Snit

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I predicted weeks ago

Anyone wanting a Sorcerer that uses stamina obviously never read the description of the class, or what the word 'Sorcerer' means, or indeed have the slightest understanding of what the many MMO players who like playing casters actually want from a class who's name means 'spellcaster'.

I love self-congratulatory "I predicted in my blog..." posts. Really

They're extra fantastic when based on a false premise. You clearly believe that "sorc" means "spellcaster," but TESO is headed in a direction where every class has good options for both magicka and stamina. Your distaste for that does not mean it is invalid, or that players are somehow wrongheaded for wanting ZOS to get it right.

You really should start your own thread on this idea, rather than leaving a pile in otherwise useful sorc threads.

Crescent

Snit wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I predicted weeks ago

Anyone wanting a Sorcerer that uses stamina obviously never read the description of the class, or what the word 'Sorcerer' means, or indeed have the slightest understanding of what the many MMO players who like playing casters actually want from a class who's name means 'spellcaster'.

I love self-congratulatory "I predicted in my blog..." posts. Really

They're extra fantastic when based on a false premise. You clearly believe that "sorc" means "spellcaster," but TESO is headed in a direction where every class has good options for both magicka and stamina. Your distaste for that does not mean it is invalid, or that players are somehow wrongheaded for wanting ZOS to get it right.

You really should start your own thread on this idea, rather than leaving a pile in otherwise useful sorc threads.

In fact, he's playing the wrong franchise because in TES, hybrid spellblades have always been, you know, a thing.

You know, like the entire conjuration school with conjured melee swords, or TES allowing you to build hybrid in pretty much every single one of its games, including allowing your Archmage in Skyrim to also partake in the thieves' guild and become a Nightingale.

TES has always been about flexibility of classes.

Vizier

Sorc Needs Improvements? I'm thinking it needs the NERF bat but that's me and few thousand other ESO players...just sayin.

Mumnoch

.

Vizier wrote: »

Sorc Needs Improvements? I'm thinking it needs the NERF bat but that's me and few thousand other ESO players...just sayin.

Really? Really man? Are you that butt hurt about getting killed in the 1 environment that favor's a Sorc to say you and "a few thousand" think the Sorc's need a nerf? The LOWEST DPS class, the 3rd worse healer, the worst tank out of the bunch and you think they need a nerf?

If Sorc's are giving you a hard time in PVP live action combat might NOT be your thing...just sayin.


BTW you and the 3 other people in all of ESO that says Sorc's need a nerf solely from your PVP experience does not equal "a few thousand".

bloodenragedb14_ESO

leave the summons alone, they are fine as is. sorc isnt the class for you if youwant to impose stamina on daedric summoning.

Erock25

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

leave the summons alone, they are fine as is. sorc isnt the class for you if youwant to impose stamina on daedric summoning.

But what do you have against making Volatile better without blowing it up and making Clannfear a tanking tool?

ArvenAldmeri

Honestly, if there is gonna be stamina morph in class abilities and in some that I am using as a pure mage, I am gonna shot myself to the knee... No more adventuring.

Crescent

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

Honestly, if there is gonna be stamina morph in class abilities and in some that I am using as a pure mage, I am gonna shot myself to the knee... No more adventuring.

.....Don't use the stamina morph? You have that option, even if you are a horribly selfish person unfortunately.