1.6.5 Sorcerer detailed balance feedback

gurugeorgey

wolonggong_ESO wrote: »

gurugeorgey wrote: »

It's not quite fair to say it's a Zenimax thing, it's a thing with all modern MMOs, they all have the same problem.

Its only a thing with PvP centered games. Those not built around PvP don't have the "balance" issues that get broken more than fixed...the reason they are broken more than fixed is that developers hear the cries of players and balance around that instead of the actual problems...so, things break because those player tears are from people getting their butts kicked and screaming for a nerf.

I seriously don't think developers ever pay much attention to QQ-ing on forums in that sense - why should they? They have access to real data!

(That's not to say they don't take account of forum opinion in a general sense, and occasionally learn things from the occasional well thought-out forum post, but I think it's a myth that developers change things according to forum QQ - if it looks like that way sometimes, it's probably just coincidence.)

Mumnoch

gurugeorgey wrote: »

wolonggong_ESO wrote: »

gurugeorgey wrote: »

It's not quite fair to say it's a Zenimax thing, it's a thing with all modern MMOs, they all have the same problem.

Its only a thing with PvP centered games. Those not built around PvP don't have the "balance" issues that get broken more than fixed...the reason they are broken more than fixed is that developers hear the cries of players and balance around that instead of the actual problems...so, things break because those player tears are from people getting their butts kicked and screaming for a nerf.

I seriously don't think developers ever pay much attention to QQ-ing on forums in that sense - why should they? They have access to real data!

(That's not to say they don't take account of forum opinion in a general sense, and occasionally learn things from the occasional well thought-out forum post, but I think it's a myth that developers change things according to forum QQ - if it looks like that way sometimes, it's probably just coincidence.)

Agreed. I haven't been playing this game since it released however for several months at least the Sorc has been the worse choice for DPS/heals/Tank. This has been reflected over the many month's by leaderboards. Even with the sorry state Sorc's are in Zenimax has done nothing to improve the state of Sorc's. To make it worse they made the most boring to play build for Sorc's do our best DPS (still behind all other DPS to boot).

Does Zenimax listen to players? I don't think so. Do they read the data then? Judging by how long Sorc's have been last in everything, not for the Sorc class at least.

Zenimax is only interested in making money. Long as people are giving them money expect a big FU to anything you want.

Snit

TehMagnus wrote: »

Does Zenimax listen to players?

They have told us that what they see in livestreams influences them.

LameoveR

I'm sorry to iterrupt, just went back after 6 months.
When my sorc will be fixed?

Vahrokh

LameoveR wrote: »

I'm sorry to iterrupt, just went back after 6 months.
When my sorc will be fixed?

It's already been "fixed"

Vahrokh

Gil.Galad wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Survivability is not an issue since you're not supposed to heal yourself in trials, hence sorcs have as much resistance as any other class.

I'm tired of writing to hodor people, who don't seem to be able to think about anything else but trials situations, but I will do it one more time.
1. Sorcs don't have as much resistance as other classes. DKs and Temps have passives that give spellres. DKs can block an additional 10%, Temps 15% more melee. There are a lot of AOEs you have to block in trials, specially in hard modes.
2. Survivabilty is an issue in vet DSA where you can't always rely on your healer (e.g. Vamp stage).

TehMagnus wrote: »

Usefullness in 1.6.3 you can only speculate and in any case to get the higher leaderboard scores you have to do Hard Mode and DPS is not the most important thing, it's surviving and using ultimates at the correct time.

If the sorc had an useful ultimate this would be true, but a sorc doesn't have a nova, VOB or Magma Armor (synergy) or does offer any other group utility, but the 3% spellcrit. Negate is useless after the nerf and the Barrier is available to every class.

NBs can heal the group, while dealing dmg, have their VOB and increase the groups weapon crit.
Temps have their nova and increase the groups spelldmg by 5%.
DKs have the magma armor, increase the groups weapon dmg by 5% and can increase the groups fire dmg by 10% (engulfing flames)

TehMagnus wrote: »

There is no reason to refuse a sorc in any group since the most important thing now is to be a skilled player and survive while dealing DECENT DPS.

Skill might be more important in 1.6, but a skilled sorc will reach a limit pretty fast, while DKs and Temps have still space to improve. The often cited liquid lightning is useless in most HRC fights, specially in the hardmodes when the boss is moving all the time, so sorcs loose about 1,5k DPS there, no matter how skied they are.

I am tired of discussions with hodor people who's best scores are with everything but their sorcs. I would appreciate it when you go back, play your DK and stop all your biased posts. We are interested in an objective discussion, give me facts, that's all I'm interested in. Stop stating sorcs are fine, without any good arguments.

Sorcs might be fine in most Trial situations when it comes to pure DPS, but as you said it's not about pure DPS anymore.
Everything else needs improvement, specially the utility and the ability to play anything else but magicka DPS.

Much respect to your calm way at dealing with these things.

I believe here are a number of radically different approaches to "MMO life" and they reflect in these kinds of threads.

You have the top end guy who's hardwired into min maxing, the casual guy who suddenly can't solo what he did just few days ago, the PvPer who enjoys his month of performance sunlight. You have the guy dissecting skill by skill and the one (in example: me) who goes "macro and behavioral".

Basically before patch 1.6 we had 3 roles:

1) DPS, even if gimped. We could tank and heal as well but I have never seen a sorc seriously taken as trials main tank or main healer so I have no experience with that.

2) Support, usually "AoE beatch and off-healer".

3) Utility / buff, in the form of our Magic Button That Makes The Class Accepted, that is Negate Magic.

We also had an "ace in our sleeves": lower DPS but ultra-strong survivability.

On the contrary, our class signature (pets) was completely ignored because it was totally weak for any trial content. That weakens our class "signature".

Result:
Before patch 1.6 sorcs identity is: "a durable, relatively shallow characterized class, capable of some DPS, relatively good at support, very good at utility with an unique spell brought to the table.


Post patch 1.6 we were changed into something different:

1) Stronger DPS. Still the worst of all but we come closer to the others.

2a) Debatable AoE support: whereas Liquid Lightning hits hard, it provides an exceptionally narrow area of effect and it's mostly worthless in a dynamic battle (most of HR, at least some of Sanctum). If we want to revert to "good old Elemental Ring", it's nerfed and its awesome multi-synergy with Surge is a pale shadow of the past.

2b) In other to keep 1) true, we must totally drop off-healing and self healing. Otherwise with the current gear doctrine we get our setup all broken. This is an understimated, serious blunder. Hard core min maxers who always only looked at the DPS aspect of our class won't even acknowledge this being a problem, since they play "a la old way, with Holy Trinity based balance" so they don't even imagine they should ever stop their precious DPS to heal up somebody.

3) Negate magic is now ufficially mega-nerfed, made useless and even a casual trial guild like mine now does runs without using a single negate, including at the last bosses.

Our "ace in the sleeve" has gone.

Our class signature (pets) has been made visibly stronger, but they still bring more trouble than benefits: need to recast them even 3 times per fight, they aggro "middle" AA platforms NPCs even if you are stealthed, they randomly pull bosses, they take an healing slot so real players get healed less often. Plus bugs.

Result:
Past patch 1.6 sorcs identity is: "a glass cannon, somewhat characterized class, capable of decent DPS, mediocre at support, with no utility whatsoever (well, 3% crit *rolleyes*), nothing unique or special brought to the table.


Conclusion
Some call this "a buff".

Yes it IS a buff to one of many facets that compose a class: DPS. This happens to be the one factor that hard core min maxers seem to care about, no suprise they consider the class being fine and fixed.

But classes, expecially in ESO, are a rich set of characteristics, gameplays, assets. Did we improve?
I am not sure. We have traded off a LOT to get a smidge of DPS.

We have been turned into "a pure DPS class" without the traditional perk for giving up utility: be a top DPS performer. We aren't. We are still 3rd to 4th yet we have given up a LOT.

I don't consider this a fair deal. Fair deal will be when other classes - who kept ALL their utility and synergies - will perform DPS worse than us. Not a second sooner.

xherics

CP = 119

Finally one proper rotation without mistakes and misclicks yesterday xD
So many times I am forgetting to re-apply the sorcery buff

byrom101b16_ESO

xherics wrote: »

CP = 119

Finally one proper rotation without mistakes and misclicks yesterday xD
So many times I am forgetting to re-apply the sorcery buff

I have 96 CP.

I got around 11.5K on Bogodan yesterday - so you're performance isn't bad at all. I should be up to around 12K+ once I've got my +magicka damage to 30 points like my elemental damage is. I still have to fully optimise the exact timing of my heavy attack to get best results, I find the new bland animation more difficult to judge it, but it's coming along.

I'd characterise that fight as the absolute minimum difficulty to count as representative of a fight in which LL is viable. Mind you, I was running Elemental Drain for the rest of the party, so I lost a slot there. But now I'm re-mastering the animation cancelling on my Frags, things are improving. It is still an incredibly random proc though and I missed it a few times in phases where the bright white fire is everywhere before he jumps. I also have an issue with the animation not being visible sometimes, which is weird...

Still, got eclipsed by the DK (~14.5K) and the NB, (~13.5K), but that's par for the course in the new reality, and both of them have far easier rotations, utility and survivability.

Vahrokh restates the issues well enough.

We have to work hard to get close to competitive dps, and we don't really have any other uses, and in fights with heavy incoming damage, we're a drain on the healer unless we reduce our available dps buttons for Thundering Presence and/or Hardened Ward.

I miss the days our second slot was most usefully a healing staff...

xherics

Elemental drain should be applied by the Healer, others should be in 5m range to get the magicka restore (if I am right).

Our Sorcerer DPS is based mainly on Crystal Fragments proc, what is RANDOM, based on luck. So, our DPS is random as well. In some fight I have almost every time fragments up, in some situations almost never. Because of this, our sorcerer DPS can not be sust. in every situations.

If I have luck with proc, I do DPS up to 14,5K. If I have less luck 12-13k. If almost no luck, the max is 11k.

byrom101b16_ESO

xherics wrote: »

Elemental drain should be applied by the Healer, others should be in 5m range to get the magicka restore (if I am right).

Our Sorcerer DPS is based mainly on Crystal Fragments proc, what is RANDOM, based on luck. So, our DPS is random as well. In some fight I have almost every time fragments up, in some situations almost never. Because of this, our sorcerer DPS can not be sust. in every situations.

If I have luck with proc, I do DPS up to 14,5K. If I have less luck 12-13k. If almost no luck, the max is 11k.

It should, but it wasn't

Vahrokh

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

Mumnoch

xherics wrote: »

CP = 119

Finally one proper rotation without mistakes and misclicks yesterday xD
So many times I am forgetting to re-apply the sorcery buff

Well done getting to 13k in a short fight with a lucky streak of frag procs. Honestly well done.

Now we just need to figure out how they think we're supposed to match the other DPS classes sitting easily at the 15-18k DPS range...

Zenimax where's the class balance you promised or is this all smoke and mirror's so you can make a quick buck? As it stands now serious guilds that are competing would be fools to bring a Sorc in any roll to a trial or anything competitive. Thanks Zenimax =/

pppontus

Vahrokh wrote: »

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

Exactly this is what makes these conversations so frustrating to have.

This is the right side boss in HRC. The boss splits. FTC damage report has been bugged to hell on this boss since last year. You can do 40K DPS on it with a bit of luck, because it counts all the damage you do as damage to every "version" of him..

Edit: So yeah, 16K seems awfully bad considering that.

GilGalad

pppontus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

Exactly this is what makes these conversations so frustrating to have.

This is the right side boss in HRC. The boss splits. FTC damage report has been bugged to hell on this boss since last year. You can do 40K DPS on it with a bit of luck, because it counts all the damage you do as damage to every "version" of him..

Edit: So yeah, 16K seems awfully bad considering that.

I also noticed that FTC is bugged there, so I wouldnt take these values too serious. But the arguments he brings are right. Sorcs best DPS are situational (liquid lightning, without you loose about 1k DPS), highly depending on CF procs (sometimes you don't have an animation or sound when it procs) and are still limited compared to other classes. Sorcs should be the best DPS because they are the worst in both other roles and provide almost no utility.
When my DK hits VR14 in some days and I find the time I will post some DPS from both classes in different situations, maybe some dungeon runs...

Vahrokh

pppontus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

Exactly this is what makes these conversations so frustrating to have.

This is the right side boss in HRC. The boss splits. FTC damage report has been bugged to hell on this boss since last year. You can do 40K DPS on it with a bit of luck, because it counts all the damage you do as damage to every "version" of him..

Edit: So yeah, 16K seems awfully bad considering that.

I wouldn't have felt so hard pressed at posting screenshots if:

- Only see "one side" posting stuff I know it's purely due to the combination of factors like: cristal frags crit streaks and / or short fight where streaks alter numbers a lot and / or using meteor and similar / charged overload.

- Tuesday we were 3 people short for an AA run. We invited 3 guys off /zone chat, 2 of them from the same guild: healer and DPS DK. The healer was awesome but didn't do anything "vocal". The DK, to prove it was worth inviting them, posted DPS reports after each AA fight. He posted 16k, 15k, 18k, 16k from boss 1 to 4. Now, is FTC always broken?

- Only 1 guy in my guild reads the forums. However once patch 1.6 hit, we did 2 trial runs and since then I am the only sorc still attending to trials left. Furthermore, I got asked by a guy to please stop using matriarch in trials because it was doing all sorts of wrong stuff with the bosses. Which is true because both my matriarch and the ones of the other sorcs have pulled bosses "just because", attacked NPCs while we were stealthed in middle platform (AA) and other.
So either do even less DPS or annoy people.

King Richard himself (one of the most known PvPers) posted he too resents the drop in sorc versatility (with no DPS visible increase payoff) like we do.
Is he a total noob too?

sput4ueb17_ESO

dk's can boost up weapon damage a lot and some are having
in fights 3900... maybe more

If we were able to reach these numbers in spell damage .........

pppontus

Vahrokh wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

Exactly this is what makes these conversations so frustrating to have.

This is the right side boss in HRC. The boss splits. FTC damage report has been bugged to hell on this boss since last year. You can do 40K DPS on it with a bit of luck, because it counts all the damage you do as damage to every "version" of him..

Edit: So yeah, 16K seems awfully bad considering that.

I wouldn't have felt so hard pressed at posting screenshots if:

- Only see "one side" posting stuff I know it's purely due to the combination of factors like: cristal frags crit streaks and / or short fight where streaks alter numbers a lot and / or using meteor and similar / charged overload.

- Tuesday we were 3 people short for an AA run. We invited 3 guys off /zone chat, 2 of them from the same guild: healer and DPS DK. The healer was awesome but didn't do anything "vocal". The DK, to prove it was worth inviting them, posted DPS reports after each AA fight. He posted 16k, 15k, 18k, 16k from boss 1 to 4. Now, is FTC always broken?

- Only 1 guy in my guild reads the forums. However once patch 1.6 hit, we did 2 trial runs and since then I am the only sorc still attending to trials left. Furthermore, I got asked by a guy to please stop using matriarch in trials because it was doing all sorts of wrong stuff with the bosses. Which is true because both my matriarch and the ones of the other sorcs have pulled bosses "just because", attacked NPCs while we were stealthed in middle platform (AA) and other.
So either do even less DPS or annoy people.

King Richard himself (one of the most known PvPers) posted he too resents the drop in sorc versatility (with no DPS visible increase payoff) like we do.
Is he a total noob too?

I'm not too interested in getting in to a discussion, you think Sorcs suck and I clearly don't. We both know that already. And I've never heard of a King Richard so I don't have anything to add to that. I'm just saying, this guy posted 16K on a boss that normally gets your DPS multiplied by 3-5 times.

Septimus_Magna

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Bound Armor has always been terrible. It still is. Toggle and high cost.

Seriously, of we could just get the cost (surge is even expensive for mag users) and number of toggles issue under control that would go a long way.

Running surge and lightning armor (8k magicka every 15-20 seconds) requires 800-1000 magicka regen in non-light armor. Ridiculous, Anne those aren't even super skills

Bound Aegis can be very good depending on your setup. It gives +8% magicka and +2% spell damage, if you combine it with Inner Light, which gives +7% magicka +2% magicka regen, you can reach +30k magicka and +2.5k spell damage.

If you have problems with surviving with your sorc you could try Hardened Ward (+ Healing Ward when needed) instead of Lightning Form. Hardened Ward gives 10k shield which is way more useful than the armor and spell resist from Lightning Form imo.The best solution for magicka sustain is 3x gold quality reduce magicka cost glyphs on jewelry, it reduces magicka cost of spells by 21%. This made my sustain in long fights a lot better, actually its really easy now if someone applies Elemental Drain.

Septimus_Magna

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Does anyone else feel like Bound Armor and Negate Magic suffered a nerf?

Those aren't feels, man, those are FACTS. Bound Armor doesn't do jack to buff a Sorc wearing Light Armor. I haven't worn a piece of Light Armor since 1.6 went live!

The nerf to Negate hardly matters, because Ultimate generation got nerfed so hard you would barely get a chance to use it anyway.

Bound armor got buffed for magicka sorcs imo, it gives +8% magicka and +2% spell power. But I agree the damage mitigation is way too low.

If you want to play a light armor sorc with survivability you can! Sorc is probably the best class for LA atm, Hardened Ward scales off magicka and gives about a 10k shield for magicka builds. You could even use Healing Ward and/or Harness Magicka to gain even more survivability. I use 5 LA / 1 HA (chest) / 1 MA (shoulders) for the undaunted passives that increases all attributes by 6% and I have no problems staying alive.

xherics

Vahrokh wrote: »

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

At the beginning, with 70CP, the DPS difference was 1-2% only between DK and SORC. I can confirm what Magnus said.
But after a few weeks and fixing the gear combinations and re-learning the rotations, skills, it is the mentioned 15-20% again. Depends on the compared people.

I did already like 20 vet dsa runs after 1.6 and did so many runs with Magnus, at the beginning we had almost the same dps.
Now, 2 days ago, in the same fight in arena he had like 15k-16k on his DK, I had 12-13k on my sorc. I need to mention, that I had 9 more CP than Magnus.

Our sorcerer DPS extremely depends on Crystal fragments proc, what is crazy, because with this skill, our DPS is just a luck DPS with the CF RNG.

Merlin13KAGL

pppontus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

Exactly this is what makes these conversations so frustrating to have.

This is the right side boss in HRC. The boss splits. FTC damage report has been bugged to hell on this boss since last year. You can do 40K DPS on it with a bit of luck, because it counts all the damage you do as damage to every "version" of him..

Edit: So yeah, 16K seems awfully bad considering that.

@pppontus , guess that explain this then, huh?

(Knew it was a bug, but couldn't resist capturing it...)

pppontus

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

Exactly this is what makes these conversations so frustrating to have.

This is the right side boss in HRC. The boss splits. FTC damage report has been bugged to hell on this boss since last year. You can do 40K DPS on it with a bit of luck, because it counts all the damage you do as damage to every "version" of him..

Edit: So yeah, 16K seems awfully bad considering that.

@pppontus , guess that explain this then, huh?

(Knew it was a bug, but couldn't resist capturing it...)

That's awesome!

I wonder if we can conclude 56K DPS is the new benchmark for Sorcerers.. hmmm.

Just kidding (added to avoid the inevitable flaming otherwise ).

Vahrokh

xherics wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I recall TehMagnus stating how his guild (Hodor) sorcs would deal 1-2% less DPS than the other classes, from this assumption he created some quite intense posts.

Well, my guild is super-casual, with people not using potions, not properly buffing, without healers keeping up Elemental drain nor any other optimization. Today we have done a run and a non hard core, non min maxed, no "90 CP" DK produced this DPS:




16498 = "1-2% DPS difference". Yeah. Really.

I mean, the top worldwide sorc parses get to 14k with everything perfect and on expecially short fights where crystal frags happened to proc a lot. A random DK from a soft core guild who did not even try, is doing 15% more than that optimal 14k. And is doing 20% more than an Hodor sorcs on a flawless attempt.

At the beginning, with 70CP, the DPS difference was 1-2% only between DK and SORC. I can confirm what Magnus said.
But after a few weeks and fixing the gear combinations and re-learning the rotations, skills, it is the mentioned 15-20% again. Depends on the compared people.

I did already like 20 vet dsa runs after 1.6 and did so many runs with Magnus, at the beginning we had almost the same dps.
Now, 2 days ago, in the same fight in arena he had like 15k-16k on his DK, I had 12-13k on my sorc. I need to mention, that I had 9 more CP than Magnus.

Our sorcerer DPS extremely depends on Crystal fragments proc, what is crazy, because with this skill, our DPS is just a luck DPS with the CF RNG.

I really wish one day ZOS disclosed the rationale behind their idea that classes best at 1 role and 2nd best at another role, consistently beat at its main role a class that is best at no other role.

I really mean, the game design behind the decision. There has to be a reason.

Vahrokh

xherics wrote: »

Our sorcerer DPS extremely depends on Crystal fragments proc, what is crazy, because with this skill, our DPS is just a luck DPS with the CF RNG.

If I may ask you: are you Hodor sorcs using pets in trials?
I am switching between Altef-Quatre's build (it got Matriarch), Pppontus and one I made by myself (pet-less).

In my experience, Matriarch dies 1-4 times per boss (depending on boss). Therefore at certain bosses I am really unsure whether the added re-summoning times, summoning mana cost, downtime etc. it's really worth using.

xherics

Vahrokh wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

Our sorcerer DPS extremely depends on Crystal fragments proc, what is crazy, because with this skill, our DPS is just a luck DPS with the CF RNG.

If I may ask you: are you Hodor sorcs using pets in trials?
I am switching between Altef-Quatre's build (it got Matriarch), Pppontus and one I made by myself (pet-less).

In my experience, Matriarch dies 1-4 times per boss (depending on boss). Therefore at certain bosses I am really unsure whether the added re-summoning times, summoning mana cost, downtime etc. it's really worth using.

nononono, no pet at all for me. I am not a noob togglemancer as ZOS wish us to be

Here you can see what skills I use:

xherics wrote: »

CP = 119

Finally one proper rotation without mistakes and misclicks yesterday xD
So many times I am forgetting to re-apply the sorcery buff

Vahrokh

xherics wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

Our sorcerer DPS extremely depends on Crystal fragments proc, what is crazy, because with this skill, our DPS is just a luck DPS with the CF RNG.

If I may ask you: are you Hodor sorcs using pets in trials?
I am switching between Altef-Quatre's build (it got Matriarch), Pppontus and one I made by myself (pet-less).

In my experience, Matriarch dies 1-4 times per boss (depending on boss). Therefore at certain bosses I am really unsure whether the added re-summoning times, summoning mana cost, downtime etc. it's really worth using.

nononono, no pet at all for me. I am not a noob togglemancer as ZOS wish us to be

Here you can see what skills I use:

xherics wrote: »

CP = 119

Finally one proper rotation without mistakes and misclicks yesterday xD
So many times I am forgetting to re-apply the sorcery buff

Thank you. I take it, you got the crit % passive? Because those crit % I see are really fat!
Did you remember how much DPS did you do before getting the passive? I still have not got it.

xherics

Vahrokh wrote: »

Thank you. I take it, you got the crit % passive? Because those crit % I see are really fat!
Did you remember how much DPS did you do before getting the passive? I still have not got it.

Yes, I have the crit passive and have 49% crit totally. The crit passive can be unlocked with 90CP.

Before I unlocked the crit, max 11K was my DPS on LIVE server, but on PTS before the release it was 13k...

Seems, ZOS somehow nerfed our SPELL damage points with the official release. On PTS with the SAME gear and same skill bar, same everything, I had 2,8k spell damage with the Sorcery buff applied. On the live server, with the same gear, same bar, etc., I have 2,57K SPELL damage only. Seems, silent nerf.. But I gave it already up to fight, because all the time when ZOS buffed something on sorcerer by 50%, they nerfed something else by 100%...

So, I gave it up and now I am trying to do the best with available sorcerer.

@EDIT: do not use SHADOW mundus stone - seems, it is bugged again => with shadow all my skills had in all fights 10% less crit on the Combat LOG. With shadow I was not able to obtain more than 40% crit on any skills; changed it to Mage and woala, you see the crit rates.

Cyantific87

ZOS should just increased our spell damage passive to 4% per skill.

Vahrokh

ads1 wrote: »

ZOS should just increased our spell damage passive to 4% per skill.

Unlikely. They stealth nerfed spell damage and now you hope they undo it and buff us beyond what we had on PTS?

Mumnoch

Vahrokh wrote: »

ads1 wrote: »

ZOS should just increased our spell damage passive to 4% per skill.

Unlikely. They stealth nerfed spell damage and now you hope they undo it and buff us beyond what we had on PTS?

In a word. Yes.

They need to do something or the daily hate they are receiving on multiple formats will continue.