1.6.5 Sorcerer detailed balance feedback

TheMachineKiller

We have the weakest dps now and have once again been left in the dark. Magika sorc builds are useless here in 1.6.

byrom101b16_ESO

I do wonder about the last contact we had from ZOS about the Sorcerer.

The SORCERER uses MAGICK - in what incarnation of the word, or indeed in the world of Elder Scrolls has this not been the case?

If ZOS merely make changes to the stamina based Sorcerer, for those players interested in playing a magic user as another class, then don't expect it to be competitive.

It will be viable at best.

Anything more than that and the 'real' stamina users will complain endlessly - cries of "why is a magicka using class better than my NB/Temp/DK stamina build!!!"

Like I said - SORCERERS use MAGICK!

The majority of people who play Sorcerers, and in my experience playing, the vast majority, play light armour wearing spellcasters.

This is an aspect of the class that needs a root and branch overhaul and fix, and ultimately, if lore, common sense or game balance mean anything AT ALL, Sorcerers should be the BEST magicka users while running around in tissue paper armour.

I invite counter statements from ZOS - about why Templars, DKs or NBs should somehow do better dps and have more utlility and synergy from magicka skills whilst having better survivability.

1 Armour = 1 Spell Resistance...

Light Armour having the worst spell resistance in game even with relevant passives maxed out, and yet is essential for magicka sustain!?

... what a joke...

byrom101b16_ESO

THIS is how it should break down.

Heavy Armour - x4 base armour rating; x1 spell resistance rating; up to 25% Health boost; up to 50% blocking mitigation bonus from passives

Medium Armour - x2.5 base armour rating; x1.5 spell resistance rating; up to 10% Health boost; up to 25% Stamina boost; up to 25% armour penetration bonus from passives

Light Armour - x1 base armour rating; x4 spell resistance rating; up to 25% Magicka boost; up to 25% spell penetration bonus from passives

Then players can mix and match as they wish to create the build they want and have the role they want with the class they want.

Not the imbalanced dross we have now...

olsborg

Expert

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

THIS is how it should break down.

Heavy Armour - x4 base armour rating; x1 spell resistance rating; up to 25% Health boost; up to 50% blocking mitigation bonus from passives

Medium Armour - x2.5 base armour rating; x1.5 spell resistance rating; up to 10% Health boost; up to 25% Stamina boost; up to 25% armour penetration bonus from passives

Light Armour - x1 base armour rating; x4 spell resistance rating; up to 25% Magicka boost; up to 25% spell penetration bonus from passives

Then players can mix and match as they wish to create the build they want and have the role they want with the class they want.

Not the imbalanced dross we have now...

Personally, I like this better then what we have on live right now. *thumbs up*

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I invite counter statements from ZOS - about why Templars, DKs or NBs should somehow do better dps and have more utlility and synergy from magicka skills whilst having better survivability.

I chime in here... would love to hear about that as well from them.

The Sorc is currently nothing more than a Pseudo/Wannabe Healer/Tank/DPS... the guy sitting on the bank during sports, hoping to be picked by a group because one of the other classes is missing.

This Pseudo-tank/healer thing might work cool in lower levels, also in PVP and also maybe in some of the easier VR12+ Instances.
For End Game Content like Veteran Arena, City of Ash and also Sanctum, this class is right now not really of any use. Whatever the Sorc can do, the other classes can do much better with much less effort.

That's what it looks like now...
Sorcs either get dragged along by friends or guildies who either feel sorry or/and want to help their friends to get that achievement. Or they get dragged along, because a DD is missing and the Sorc is the last resort. That is not really desireable for a person who wants to play a Sorc and get to see the End Game content.

As I said before - and I repeat it - Zenimax - YOU designed the End Game content to be a DPS-Race. You made "dealing extreme high amounts of damage in a certain amount of time" THE solution to success in your End Game Content. Too less DPS = Fail or at least a severe annoying ever-ongoing struggle.

Zenimax made the Sorc a class that does not meet any of the requirements of their designed End Game content.

Maybe Zenimax did not realize it while designing the content, or maybe they did not expect people being so picky and choosing only the Maximum/Optimum classes.

But that's how it goes with End Game and Progressive gaming. Only the strongest and best classes are desired. The Sorc in ESO is not among them. And just because it got Elder Scrolls in its title, doesn't make people less picky when it comes to High End Content and the best classes to master that content the fastest and easiest way.

Snit

If you're having trouble with DPS on a non-pet build, try the following:

- Switch from Crushing Shock to Force Pulse. You need the 10% boost
- On any stationary encounter, Liquid Lightning should be in your regular rotation. It's good, if the critters don't move around.
- Stack Spell Damage. The new Expert Mage passive synergizes well with a build that has several sorc abilities on your bar
- If you didn't previously have Crystal Fragments on your bar for use on procs, strongly consider it
- Overload is your ultimate for PvE

I haven't reached any real conclusions about sorc DPS yet, and I'm not clad in all best-in-slots (no Valkyn or Mephala, no Trials Gear and three slots are still VR13). We may still be behind on DPS, and I only play a sorc, so I don't know where DK's or Temps are now. But I am definitely outputting more damage than my 1.5 version did.

Healing, Tanking and Stamina builds are the places where sorcs are undeniably far behind everyone else. DPS... we may be ok.

Cuyler

Snit wrote: »

If you're having trouble with DPS on a non-pet build, try the following:

- Switch from Crushing Shock to Force Pulse. You need the 10% boost
- On any stationary encounter, Liquid Lightning should be in your regular rotation. It's good, if the critters don't move around.
- Stack Spell Damage. The new Expert Mage passive synergizes well with a build that has several sorc abilities on your bar
- If you didn't previously have Crystal Fragments on your bar for use on procs, strongly consider it
- Overload is your ultimate for PvE

I haven't reached any real conclusions about sorc DPS yet, and I'm not clad in all best-in-slots (no Valkyn or Mephala, no Trials Gear and three slots are still VR13). We may still be behind on DPS, and I only play a sorc, so I don't know where DK's or Temps are now. But I am definitely outputting more damage than my 1.5 version did.

Healing, Tanking and Stamina builds are the places where sorcs are undeniably far behind everyone else. DPS... we may be ok.

The way it looks to me right now is that magicka sorc will be doing average dps even with BIS (13-14k). Templar currently OP, DK always been easymode, NB good with minimal work (16k+), etc, etc.

Erock25

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I do wonder about the last contact we had from ZOS about the Sorcerer.

The SORCERER uses MAGICK - in what incarnation of the word, or indeed in the world of Elder Scrolls has this not been the case?

If ZOS merely make changes to the stamina based Sorcerer, for those players interested in playing a magic user as another class, then don't expect it to be competitive.

It will be viable at best.

Anything more than that and the 'real' stamina users will complain endlessly - cries of "why is a magicka using class better than my NB/Temp/DK stamina build!!!"

Like I said - SORCERERS use MAGICK!

The majority of people who play Sorcerers, and in my experience playing, the vast majority, play light armour wearing spellcasters.

This is an aspect of the class that needs a root and branch overhaul and fix, and ultimately, if lore, common sense or game balance mean anything AT ALL, Sorcerers should be the BEST magicka users while running around in tissue paper armour.

I invite counter statements from ZOS - about why Templars, DKs or NBs should somehow do better dps and have more utlility and synergy from magicka skills whilst having better survivability.

1 Armour = 1 Spell Resistance...

Light Armour having the worst spell resistance in game even with relevant passives maxed out, and yet is essential for magicka sustain!?

... what a joke...

But what is it about Sorc that has you convinced they are THE magicka class? What is THE stamina class? Why can some classes be magicka or stamina and others are relegated to have to choose one?

Saying Sorc is for magicka only because for some reason in your mind through other games/fiction/worlds that you associate Sorc with magic is pretty short sighted.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

But what is it about Sorc that has you convinced they are THE magicka class? What is THE stamina class? Why can some classes be magicka or stamina and others are relegated to have to choose one?

Saying Sorc is for magicka only because for some reason in your mind through other games/fiction/worlds that you associate Sorc with magic is pretty short sighted.

I twist and turn that question a litte into some questions of my own (no offense meant - it's meant as a general question).

Why limiting any class to any Stat/Path at all?

Why should Magicka based skills be less good than Stamina based skills - and vis versa? (that goes for any class)

Why is it such a problem to offer two ways - the physical way and the magickal way... and make them equally valuable.

A Sorc is a mage and a mage usually (emphasis on "usually") uses magicka/mana... so if someone wants to play a Sorc as a classic magicka based character - why make this path so weak in comparison to Stamina?

I even would welcome a balanced stamina/magicka build - but that won't work due the HP issue.
And skills cost far too much as that one could go balanced... so one has to decide for one - stamina or magicka...

In the end, most of our stat points go into Health. What good do high magicka or stamina values when you do not have not enough HP to withstand the damage the high end bosses deal out... if you are dead, a high amount of Stamina and Magicka won't be really of any use ^^

Fact is - there needs to be a plausible concept for both builds - without making one or the other a lousy mistake you are going to regret and "re-invest" at the skill/stat shrines.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

if you dont want to use magicka, dont pick sorc, by gods id think this was common sense by now.

byrom101b16_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I do wonder about the last contact we had from ZOS about the Sorcerer.

The SORCERER uses MAGICK - in what incarnation of the word, or indeed in the world of Elder Scrolls has this not been the case?

If ZOS merely make changes to the stamina based Sorcerer, for those players interested in playing a magic user as another class, then don't expect it to be competitive.

It will be viable at best.

Anything more than that and the 'real' stamina users will complain endlessly - cries of "why is a magicka using class better than my NB/Temp/DK stamina build!!!"

Like I said - SORCERERS use MAGICK!

The majority of people who play Sorcerers, and in my experience playing, the vast majority, play light armour wearing spellcasters.

This is an aspect of the class that needs a root and branch overhaul and fix, and ultimately, if lore, common sense or game balance mean anything AT ALL, Sorcerers should be the BEST magicka users while running around in tissue paper armour.

I invite counter statements from ZOS - about why Templars, DKs or NBs should somehow do better dps and have more utlility and synergy from magicka skills whilst having better survivability.

1 Armour = 1 Spell Resistance...

Light Armour having the worst spell resistance in game even with relevant passives maxed out, and yet is essential for magicka sustain!?

... what a joke...

But what is it about Sorc that has you convinced they are THE magicka class? What is THE stamina class? Why can some classes be magicka or stamina and others are relegated to have to choose one?

Saying Sorc is for magicka only because for some reason in your mind through other games/fiction/worlds that you associate Sorc with magic is pretty short sighted.

My mind?

TES has until now never had classes. Zenimax decided to introduce some and they used pretty obvious, and often cliched choices of name to make it clear what they were...

Sorcerers have far more heavy magicka skills to stamina skills ratio than any other class - FAR more.

Look at the class skills balance between the two resources and come to the only conclusion logically possible yourself - Sorcerers were always meant to be primarily magicka users.

People who want the kind of choice they had in TES want decent Sorcerer stmaina skills and are getting screwed, albeit they chose a Sorcerer, so the bias of the class should have been self-evident really. The ones who saw the word Sorcerer and thought - user of magick - they are now getting screwed as well.

It was the other skill lines - not the class skill lines that were supposed to give you the flexibility to choose your build to suit your vision, but, predictably, they messed it up, and only a few of the many builds possible became the best choices, or even viable choices...

If you build a Nightblade Bowman, WHy should there be a choice to be heavily magicka based when weapons abilities run off stamina?

Likewise, why should a Sorcerer have stamina morphs on magicka abilities if other skill lines give the required viable stamina skills?

A class based game with cognitive and class skill bias towards one resoruce or another means trouble when everyone wants choice. Choice was never a thing in ESO to anything like the extent they said, or was aparent once it went live.

Sorcerers are magicka users first and stamina users second.

Trying to change that just puts a lot of people's noses out, especially when tyhere are three better choices for a stamina user who also uses magicka.

Why punish those who want to specialise?

It isn't relegation to have a class bettter at one than the other, and that is the reality of the game right now - and was in the past.

Everyone had their choice of class and the ability bias that came along with it at the start.

What has changed is what works, and the choice of what works is now narrower.

EVERY class is forced to choose one resource over the other, despite the Undaunted gear that was supposed to support truly hybrid builds.

They sell for peanuts in the Traders because no-one runs a truly hybrid build - they have most of one, and a few of the other now and again for synergy.

Erock25

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerers are magicka users first and stamina users second.

I disagree. When the game started, every class had ONLY magicka abilities. Saying that Sorc are magicka based because some developer got sloppy/lazy/short sighted and only gave Sorc two stamina morphs does not mean Sorc are magicka first and stamina users second any more than the other three classes are.

I'm not really sure where you are coming from when saying how if ZOS focuses a bit on stamina options for Sorc, it will hurt magicka Sorc. Crit Surge, Crystal Blast, Daedric Tomb, Twilight Matriarch, Rune Prison are all morphs that could easily be improved for stamina users or changed to a stamina morph and it wouldn't affect magicka users negatively at all.

Do you even understand what you are asking for? You are saying, yes I know my class was given by far the least amount of stamina synergy abilities in this recent overhaul, but even knowing that, I do not want them to add any more because I only care about my play style and screw everyone else.

For some reason people are so caught up on the name Sorc and what it implies based on other lore. Sorc could as easily be called a Tempest and then what? Doesn't sound as magicka inclined does it? With only four classes, every one needs to give equal focus to stamina or magicka.

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

It isn't relegation to have a class bettter at one than the other, and that is the reality of the game right now - and was in the past.

Everyone had their choice of class and the ability bias that came along with it at the start.

Are you so sure that is how it was in the past? Best kept secret in 1.5 was stacking weapon damage on a Sorc (which was THE MOST heavily nerfed thing about stamina Sorc in 1.6 ... we lost Crit Surge + Rally weapon dmg stacking) and being able to easily maintain 1.5k DPS with the right gear.

Kahrgan

Erock25 wrote: »

Are you so sure that is how it was in the past? Best kept secret in 1.5 was stacking weapon damage on a Sorc (which was THE MOST heavily nerfed thing about stamina Sorc in 1.6 ... we lost Crit Surge + Rally weapon dmg stacking) and being able to easily maintain 1.5k DPS with the right gear.

I do miss this

Erock25

Kahrgan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Are you so sure that is how it was in the past? Best kept secret in 1.5 was stacking weapon damage on a Sorc (which was THE MOST heavily nerfed thing about stamina Sorc in 1.6 ... we lost Crit Surge + Rally weapon dmg stacking) and being able to easily maintain 1.5k DPS with the right gear.

I do miss this

It is only thing that stamina sorc had going for it (besides the crit surge, streak, crit charge combo ... and that's just for PVP) and they took it away.

exiledtyrant

I would like to see interactions and changes like this implemented for stamina sorcerers.

Dark Magic:
1. Encase – Stamina morph – Shattering prison:
Call Daedric shards from the earth to immobilize enemies in front of you for 4.5 seconds.
When the effect ends inflict Major and minor fracture debuff on targets for X seconds.

2. Rune Prison-Stamina morph- Cage of Vulnerability (replaces rune cage):
Imprison an enemy in a sphere of dark magic for 16.6 seconds.
While imprisoned the next heavy attack inflicted on that target is an automatic critical hit.

3. Dark exchange- Magicka-Instant:
Covert 10% maximum stamina into 20% maximum hp and 20% maximum magicka. Stamina cost doubles for 4 seconds per use.

4. Dark exchange-Stamina Morph- Dark Deal – Instant:
Covert 10% maximum magicka into 20% maximum hp and 20% maximum stamina. Magicka cost doubles for 4 seconds per use.

5. Dark exchange- Magicka Morph- Dark conversion- Instant:
Covert 10% maximum stamina into 20% maximum hp and 25% maximum magicka. Stamina cost doubles for 4 seconds per use.

Passive:

Blood magic:

Heal 2.5%/5% damage done to targets affected by dark magic.

Storm Calling:

6. Lightning Form-Stamina morph-Thundering Presence:
Same skill just uses and scales it's damage off of stamina now.

7. Surge-Magica:
Invoke Merida’s name to get a rush of power for X seconds, granting you Major Brutality for X seconds on critical strikes. While active critical strikes heal you for 50% of damage done ( every .25 seconds).

8. Surge- Stamina Morph- Power Surge:
Invoke Merida’s name to get a rush of power X seconds, granting you Major Brutality and Major Endurance for X seconds on Critical strikes. While active critical strikes also heal you for 50% of damage done ( every .25 seconds).

9. Surge- Magicka Morph-Magicka Surge:
Invoke Merida’s name to get a rush of power for X seconds, granting you Major Sorcery and Major intellect for X seconds on critical strikes. While active critical strikes also heal you for 50% of damage done ( every .25 seconds).

I don't think stamina sorcerers need attack morphs from the sorc tree, but they could use a lot of their utility and CC options being more stamina friendly and synergistic with stamina weapons. These changes wouldn't bump heads with magicka sorcerer's dps or CC skills. Passives are still generally lacking for stamina sorc but it may not matter in a more stamina friendly skill layout.

In the big picture I think all 3 skills lines could use an overhaul to give them a better focus for stamina and magicka users to utilize. For example being able to pull from the Dark magic tree when you want pure CC in your build, Storm for damage, and Daedric for utility instead of pulling CC, damage, and utility from all 3 with a lot of skills being left out because the skills lines compete so heavily.

byrom101b16_ESO

The whole 'stamina sorcerer' argument...

... is predicated on the assumption that the word sorcerer is irrelevant to the issue.

It isn't.

Point at a sorcerer in any other game, book, film or cartoon who doesn't use magic...

As for the suggestions that magicka skills get stamina morphs - that's taking already poor versatility away from magicka builds to give second rate versatility to stamina users, which they will have to pay for by having a shite base ability while they level it.

If you guys and gals think Zenimax will pull off a good stamina sorcerer revision to the skill lines you are deluded.

If you think they will bite the bullet and actually do what this corner-case idea of what a sorcerer should be requires... i.e. a new skill line dedicated to stamina, you are equally deluded.

Zenimax can't make a magicka build work for a class whose overhwelming number of abilities are spells... the idea that they can somehow give you a viable stamina build without a new skill line, and without further shafting alread poor magicka builds is way off base.

They haven't bothered to say they will try to fix the magicka sorcerer despite the widespread unhappiness about it.

If you think they will put much in the way of resources towards giving the rarer stamina sorcerer players what they want without hashing things further, you're fooling yourself.

Here's a prediction - they will put more stamina skills/morphs into the sorcerer lines. They won't be as good as classes who were always meant to have stamina dps bias, and they will further frack magicka sorcerers.

There is simpy no indication based on past evidence that Zenimax have a clue how to holistically class balance, or have any significant concerns outside of PvP - where they are likely expecting their console customers to want to play.... given that console games usually play in smaller groups, don't form guilds with forums and 'sign ups' and want to jump on and off at will without being chained to 2 hour trial runs.

No-one will get the fixes they want...

jarydf

Pathfinder roleplay game sorcerer class has its power come from charisma not intelligence does that count? LOL

byrom101b16_ESO

jarydf wrote: »

Pathfinder roleplay game sorcerer class has its power come from charisma not intelligence does that count? LOL

serenity_painted

All the other classes have something unique and interesting to bring to whatever type of build they might want, be it stamina or magic dps, tanking and healing, even if it may not be the absolutely best. The sorcerer currently dosen't. Why?
The changes made to make stam sorcs work are welcome but what it lacks is an attack.

The Sorcerer having more options avalible to it for magica based damage like the Dragon Knight has for tanking is both expected and understandable, but why can't they have some abilites that enchance a stam dps build?
I think anyone going stam with a sorc is interesded in creating a "battlemage" or "spellblade", whatever you wanto call it a character that mixes melee and magic to attack, so why not tweak some things that lets you do that atleast vissually.

Crystal Blast - No one in their right mind will pick this morph, not ever. Cyrstal Fragments is just way too good. Why not change this for something that works the same or simmilar but for stamina?

Summons - Why can't one scale with stamina? Like the Clanfear, it deals physical damage. Magicka based sorcs still get a meatshield. Maby the Unstable Scamp could fling fireballs, enhancing the magica based Sorcs ranged damage and could be detonated to stun anyone that comes close?
This also makes daedric pray and empowered ward more attractive to stam builds and opens up some fun pet builds.

Feynn

serenity_painted wrote: »

Cyrstal Fragments is just way too good.

Noooo! Don't say that! They'll nerf it!!!
(insert panic attack)

byrom101b16_ESO

serenity_painted wrote: »

All the other classes have something unique and interesting to bring to whatever type of build they might want, be it stamina or magic dps, tanking and healing, even if it may not be the absolutely best. The sorcerer currently dosen't. Why?
The changes made to make stam sorcs work are welcome but what it lacks is an attack.

The Sorcerer having more options avalible to it for magica based damage like the Dragon Knight has for tanking is both expected and understandable, but why can't they have some abilites that enchance a stam dps build?
I think anyone going stam with a sorc is interesded in creating a "battlemage" or "spellblade", whatever you wanto call it a character that mixes melee and magic to attack, so why not tweak some things that lets you do that atleast vissually.

Crystal Blast - No one in their right mind will pick this morph, not ever. Cyrstal Fragments is just way too good. Why not change this for something that works the same or simmilar but for stamina?

Summons - Why can't one scale with stamina? Like the Clanfear, it deals physical damage. Magicka based sorcs still get a meatshield. Maby the Unstable Scamp could fling fireballs, enhancing the magica based Sorcs ranged damage and could be detonated to stun anyone that comes close?
This also makes daedric pray and empowered ward more attractive to stam builds and opens up some fun pet builds.

Spellblade?

Surely a skill or morph allowing magicka to be used for weapon damage is much more atypical of such a concept, not bastardising magicka skills with stamina morphs...

Erock25

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

The whole 'stamina sorcerer' argument...

... is predicated on the assumption that the word sorcerer is irrelevant to the issue.

It isn't.

Point at a sorcerer in any other game, book, film or cartoon who doesn't use magic...

As for the suggestions that magicka skills get stamina morphs - that's taking already poor versatility away from magicka builds to give second rate versatility to stamina users, which they will have to pay for by having a shite base ability while they level it.

If you guys and gals think Zenimax will pull off a good stamina sorcerer revision to the skill lines you are deluded.

If you think they will bite the bullet and actually do what this corner-case idea of what a sorcerer should be requires... i.e. a new skill line dedicated to stamina, you are equally deluded.

Zenimax can't make a magicka build work for a class whose overhwelming number of abilities are spells... the idea that they can somehow give you a viable stamina build without a new skill line, and without further shafting alread poor magicka builds is way off base.

They haven't bothered to say they will try to fix the magicka sorcerer despite the widespread unhappiness about it.

If you think they will put much in the way of resources towards giving the rarer stamina sorcerer players what they want without hashing things further, you're fooling yourself.

Here's a prediction - they will put more stamina skills/morphs into the sorcerer lines. They won't be as good as classes who were always meant to have stamina dps bias, and they will further frack magicka sorcerers.

There is simpy no indication based on past evidence that Zenimax have a clue how to holistically class balance, or have any significant concerns outside of PvP - where they are likely expecting their console customers to want to play.... given that console games usually play in smaller groups, don't form guilds with forums and 'sign ups' and want to jump on and off at will without being chained to 2 hour trial runs.

No-one will get the fixes they want...

Sorry guy, but the word and how it relates to other games/media/whatever is irrelevant. I know you will probably just repeat yourself again but just fyi .... all of this is made up and there are no rules. Knights don't usually use magic, let's remove all magicka spells from Dragon Knights! Nightblades have the word BLADE in their name .... say goodbye to all magicka spells. Can you see why basing your argument on a fictional noun is pointless? I'm sure you won't and you will continue to rail against stamina sorc options (even though it is pretty obvious the lack of attention they got in 1.6) and you will also continue to complain about magicka Sorc DPS when it has been proven countless times that their DPS is quite good, especially for ranged.

In what way does changing under used morphs (Crystal Blast, Rune Prison, Critical Surge, Daedric Tomb) hurt magicka sorc at all? You are so convinced that the sky is falling that you see it in every opportunity possible.

serenity_painted

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Spellblade?

Surely a skill or morph allowing magicka to be used for weapon damage is much more atypical of such a concept, not bastardising magicka skills with stamina morphs...

"Bastardising" Yeah ok, whatever...
Stamina morphs are a more feasable option since the mechanics they've chosen to use.

In the end it's just resource A and resource B, the effects and actions are what matter. And i think it's more productive to work with the system they have in place.
I would love for this to work like the older TES games where you could focus on both magic and physical weapons at the same time, but it dosen't. It's either Stamina, Magicka or GTFO and the Sorc has considerabily less options avalible to it compared to other classes in this case.

byrom101b16_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

The whole 'stamina sorcerer' argument...

... is predicated on the assumption that the word sorcerer is irrelevant to the issue.

It isn't.

Point at a sorcerer in any other game, book, film or cartoon who doesn't use magic...

As for the suggestions that magicka skills get stamina morphs - that's taking already poor versatility away from magicka builds to give second rate versatility to stamina users, which they will have to pay for by having a shite base ability while they level it.

If you guys and gals think Zenimax will pull off a good stamina sorcerer revision to the skill lines you are deluded.

If you think they will bite the bullet and actually do what this corner-case idea of what a sorcerer should be requires... i.e. a new skill line dedicated to stamina, you are equally deluded.

Zenimax can't make a magicka build work for a class whose overhwelming number of abilities are spells... the idea that they can somehow give you a viable stamina build without a new skill line, and without further shafting alread poor magicka builds is way off base.

They haven't bothered to say they will try to fix the magicka sorcerer despite the widespread unhappiness about it.

If you think they will put much in the way of resources towards giving the rarer stamina sorcerer players what they want without hashing things further, you're fooling yourself.

Here's a prediction - they will put more stamina skills/morphs into the sorcerer lines. They won't be as good as classes who were always meant to have stamina dps bias, and they will further frack magicka sorcerers.

There is simpy no indication based on past evidence that Zenimax have a clue how to holistically class balance, or have any significant concerns outside of PvP - where they are likely expecting their console customers to want to play.... given that console games usually play in smaller groups, don't form guilds with forums and 'sign ups' and want to jump on and off at will without being chained to 2 hour trial runs.

No-one will get the fixes they want...

Sorry guy, but the word and how it relates to other games/media/whatever is irrelevant. I know you will probably just repeat yourself again but just fyi .... all of this is made up and there are no rules. Knights don't usually use magic, let's remove all magicka spells from Dragon Knights! Nightblades have the word BLADE in their name .... say goodbye to all magicka spells. Can you see why basing your argument on a fictional noun is pointless? I'm sure you won't and you will continue to rail against stamina sorc options (even though it is pretty obvious the lack of attention they got in 1.6) and you will also continue to complain about magicka Sorc DPS when it has been proven countless times that their DPS is quite good, especially for ranged.

In what way does changing under used morphs (Crystal Blast, Rune Prison, Critical Surge, Daedric Tomb) hurt magicka sorc at all? You are so convinced that the sky is falling that you see it in every opportunity possible.

'Countless times' by the same guy in the same limited circumstances...

You are clearly pro-stamina sorc, and also pro dps-video.

On the second I can't help you, but on the former - as Zenimax are going to do it (at least they have stated that...) I actually want stamina sorc to work, and have it's own skill tree, or at least a reworking of weapon skills to allow magicka to synergise better with it.

On your last point I'll just use simple maths.

If a magicka skill has two morphs, and they are both magicka based morphs with different effects, then the magicka user has CHOICE.

Change one of the morphs to stamina-based, and there is NO CHOICE.

Moreover - the stamina Sorc will have only one morph too, so they will have NO CHOICE as well...

Do you want to close down build choices to nothing but what Zenimax would spoonfeed you, and at the price of magicka Sorcs losing their flexibility?

That's is self-serving at worst, or indicates a lack of awareness of the consequences of your preferences at best...

Me on the other hand, I'd rather the class was what they originally intended it to be, PLUS a range of stamina choices in a skill line dedicated to stamina with two stamina morphs per ability.

I am far less bias than you paint me... guilty of only wanting the magicka Sorc I signed on for, whilst accomodating stamina Sorc players in a way that doesn't shaft both playstyles with some weaksauce hybrid that tries to caters to everyone but pleases no-one.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Does anyone else feel like Bound Armor and Negate Magic suffered a nerf?

exiledtyrant

None of ESO's classes have been structured or presented as being full melee or spell based. You can see from the various mage sections alone on the wiki that sorceror are not traditional casters, they favor being armored, and they use melee weapons. They are supposed to be in between the battle mage and the spell sword with the potential to become stronger than both. They do not follow the rules of classic RPG casters. People got the caster portion but were never given the melee portion that should be supported by lore.

Wiki article displaying elder scrolls classes:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Classes

serenity_painted

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

On your last point I'll just use simple maths.

If a magicka skill has two morphs, and they are both magicka based morphs with different effects, then the magicka user has CHOICE.
Change one of the morphs to stamina-based, and there is NO CHOICE.
Moreover - the stamina Sorc will have only one morph too, so they will have NO CHOICE as well...

Ok look, first of all, that isn't math. Second of all, what kind of choice is Crystal Blast vs Crystal Fragments? If one option is useless you don't have much choice either.
No one is saying make all skills have one stamina and one magica morph, that would be stuipid.

But what is the harm in adding a stamina option for a morph no one uses to begin with? A Sorc has a focus on casting spells, obviously, and should have alot of diffirent spells that cater to that playstyle. But that dosen't mean there can't be one or two offensive abilites that are usefull to a stamina user. There are still plenty of spells to choose from,

A DK has a focus on tanking and can specilize for that or go melee dps,magica dps and even brings something to the table as a healer thanks to its defensive buffs and utility spells. Same deal with the other two classes.
Why should Sorcs be pidgeon holed into a caster role just beacuse they are called Sorcerers or the only playstyle you're interested in?

Emma_Overload

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Does anyone else feel like Bound Armor and Negate Magic suffered a nerf?

Those aren't feels, man, those are FACTS. Bound Armor doesn't do jack to buff a Sorc wearing Light Armor. I haven't worn a piece of Light Armor since 1.6 went live!

The nerf to Negate hardly matters, because Ultimate generation got nerfed so hard you would barely get a chance to use it anyway.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Bound Armor has always been terrible. It still is. Toggle and high cost.

Seriously, of we could just get the cost (surge is even expensive for mag users) and number of toggles issue under control that would go a long way.

Running surge and lightning armor (8k magicka every 15-20 seconds) requires 800-1000 magicka regen in non-light armor. Ridiculous, Anne those aren't even super skills

byrom101b16_ESO

serenity_painted wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

On your last point I'll just use simple maths.

If a magicka skill has two morphs, and they are both magicka based morphs with different effects, then the magicka user has CHOICE.
Change one of the morphs to stamina-based, and there is NO CHOICE.
Moreover - the stamina Sorc will have only one morph too, so they will have NO CHOICE as well...

Ok look, first of all, that isn't math. Second of all, what kind of choice is Crystal Blast vs Crystal Fragments? If one option is useless you don't have much choice either.
No one is saying make all skills have one stamina and one magica morph, that would be stuipid.

But what is the harm in adding a stamina option for a morph no one uses to begin with? A Sorc has a focus on casting spells, obviously, and should have alot of diffirent spells that cater to that playstyle. But that dosen't mean there can't be one or two offensive abilites that are usefull to a stamina user. There are still plenty of spells to choose from,

A DK has a focus on tanking and can specilize for that or go melee dps,magica dps and even brings something to the table as a healer thanks to its defensive buffs and utility spells. Same deal with the other two classes.
Why should Sorcs be pidgeon holed into a caster role just beacuse they are called Sorcerers or the only playstyle you're interested in?

Why play a Sorcerer if you don't want to use magic?

The argument is the wrong way round.

Oh and it is maths - the difference between ONE choice and TWO...

No one is arguing that some stamina abilities can't be part of the mix - but WHY does the primary magicka using thrust of the class have to suffer?

If you want to play a heavily invested stamina class, don't play a Sorcerer.

No-one would play a Dragon KNIGHT and expect wall to wall spells and no melee weapon combat...

... but then Zenimax couldn't conceptually design their way out of a hat could they...