1.6.5 Sorcerer detailed balance feedback

ZOS_AlanG

Since this discussion is no longer PTS-specific, and is very pertinent to Sorcerers on Live, we've moved it out of the PTS forum and into Combat & Character Mechanics.

We greatly appreciate the constructive and detailed feedback, and have been keeping an eye on this thread since its inception. Since it has a lot of great momentum, we're happy to see it continue!

daemonios

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Since this discussion is no longer PTS-specific, and is very pertinent to Sorcerers on Live, we've moved it out of the PTS forum and into Combat & Character Mechanics.

We greatly appreciate the constructive and detailed feedback, and have been keeping an eye on this thread since its inception. Since it has a lot of great momentum, we're happy to see it continue!

That makes more sense. However, I note that you don't seem to be in such a rush to move certain other topics currently in General Discussions to other sub-forums:

- Why is nightblade the only class without a Damageshield or a Selfheal?
- Radiant destruction needs a nerf for PvP asap. Spammable "soul assualt"?
- [BUG] Flames of oblivion +mage light
- Change to Argonians best passive still not in the notes
- ...

Sorcs made too much noise during PTS?

byrom101b16_ESO

Don't fall into the trap of allowing anyone to use the one simplistic argument they have - that against a static enemy, wearing the best gear in game allows a Sorc to come close to being dps competitive on that one limited metric.

The class has all kinds of issues - and such arguments are utterly incapable of credibly separating the one single thing they repeatedly bang on about from the issues taken as a holistic whole.

However, the smoke and mirrors used alongside the rhetoric is mean't to convince you that everything is ok, regardless of the logically and credibly presented evidence to the contrary.

Such arguments don't engage in any meaningful way on the PvE issues of bad Sorc skill synergy, bad Sorc utility, bad Sorc survival etc.

By all means take any relevant tips on increasing your static dps, but don't ever fool yourselves you can't get far more bang for you buck from any. other. class. with the same or similar levels of effort.

Just because there is a singular argument constantly repeating the same thing doesn't mean you should listen. The number of repetitions of the same thing over and over combined with post count don't make a valid argument, they just make the most 'noise'... in the hope that you will listen exclusively to them and disregard the other point of view, and the fact it is actually better supported and better argued by the likes of Gil.Galad.

I can get close the same figures quoted with the VS set, Willows and normal Aether gear on1.5. Maybe my 'semi-heavy' attack weaving explains it, maybe not - I don't know. But that's not the point is it...

... 1.6 is here and that's all irrelevant.

Now your opponent has to do you the courtesy of standing still and let you wail on them, and you have to have the bleeding edge best kit in the game to lag slightly behind the worst of the other classes with similar gear whilst suffering the fact the other aspects of your class in PvE suck to one degree or another compared to the other three classes.

With the worst survivability in PvE, the third best healing, and worst armour, the worst stamina builds, the least efficient magicka costs and the semi-requirement to run unresponsive pets that frag healing etc. in Trials and Dungeons, the Sorcerer should be at the TOP of the dps tree to compensate for being so one-dimensional and inflexible in build.

Instead they are at the bottom. It matters not that they are a close last. They are LAST.

That isn't class balance, it's near parity at the bottom of the class group on the thing magicka Sorcs should excel at, and it comes close to the next from the bottom only in the best gear with the highest skill, and represented as acheivable stable dps when it's short term PvE boss fight burst.

Pretty misleading. If you take the time to look closely, you'll see through the house of cards the argument rests on...

This is always a problem when you compare the high-average of each class with the very best of another and shout loudly that everything is ok citing an unrepresentative, tiny sample-size 'body of evidence' as the only 'proof'.

Yusuf

daemonios wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Since this discussion is no longer PTS-specific, and is very pertinent to Sorcerers on Live, we've moved it out of the PTS forum and into Combat & Character Mechanics.

We greatly appreciate the constructive and detailed feedback, and have been keeping an eye on this thread since its inception. Since it has a lot of great momentum, we're happy to see it continue!

That makes more sense. However, I note that you don't seem to be in such a rush to move certain other topics currently in General Discussions to other sub-forums:

- Why is nightblade the only class without a Damageshield or a Selfheal?
- Radiant destruction needs a nerf for PvP asap. Spammable "soul assualt"?
- [BUG] Flames of oblivion +mage light
- Change to Argonians best passive still not in the notes
- ...

Sorcs made too much noise during PTS?

Nightblades have mark target and sap essence & funnel health. Sorcerers have a channel so please don't hijack this thread.
I have parked my sorcerer and started gearing up my nightblade.

jasonquigley646_ESO

This post has utterly depressed me in soo many ways. I think @byrom101b16_ESO summed it up best with regard to where sorcs stand right now. I really wanted to be a viable sorc healer, but no matter what I do with a resto staff its average at best. Damage dealing is a joke if you are not using the cookie cutter "weaving" method that ends up giving us older players arthritis and carpal tunnel syndrome.

There shouldn't be just one healing class in the game, healing is "Magic" based...Sorcerors are supposed to be experts in such, so why not a 4th tree that specializes in restoration magic...or just get rid of the useless pet tree that is hardly used. I don't know what the answer is...I just know that I'm tired of getting they "Oh...your a Sorc....we we would rather have a DK for dps, or templar for a healer".

But maybe I'm wrong...

Nightreaver

@pppontus
All your posts seem to carry a common theme which is to say that anyone that disagrees with you is completely ignorant. You have this condescending attitude and misperception that everything you say is valid and any evidence to the contrary is dismissed as whining.

The community has also chose to ignore when members of the best PVE guild in the game posted Sorc testing, proclaiming that they're good as well as actually started leveling Sorcerers on live. Rerolling Sorc from DK, that is. All that - completely ignored

Are you ignoring how in that video comparing DPS between the 4 different classes that Sorcerers came in third behind DKs (Best Tank) and Templars (Best Healers). And as I recall the comment was that the player was going to roll a Sorcerer, not reroll with the intention of replacing his main. Wasn't that the same person that stated hard core players should have all classes learned and be ready to play whatever is needed at a moments notice? Sounded to me more like he was just following his own advice.

Sorc better for soloing? Was there a new class introduced that has trouble soloing?

You can't assume that the majority of Sorcs are unhappy just because you see mostly angry Sorcerers here

You can't assume that the majority of Sorcs are happy just because you say they should be.

For once, I am convinced that Zenimax has it right and no further buffs should be made until we see the changes fully in action down the line, if Magicka Sorcerers are buffed further right now there is a clear risk of tipping the scales too much in their favour and we'll end up with only Sorcs

So you would much rather see the scales tipped in favor of classes other than Sorcerer than make any attempt at balance?
You go on and on about how Sorcerers are not that bad. Another common theme I keep hearing from you and people who play other classes. That Sorcerers are "viable", that they are close to the DPS of other classes.

I don't want to be "not that bad" or "viable", I want to be "just as good". To be clear, I'm not saying Sorcerers are bad but nothing I have seen or read convinces we are as good as other classes either. And I see no reason why that should be acceptable. I mean if being viable is acceptable to other classes then let's put Sorcerer DPS on top. Not too far ahead, I mean I want the other classes to still feel viable.

Anyways, my point was that every legitimate point anyone makes against you is ignored,

So cries the kettle

now I'm just here to point out flaws in your reasoning as well as continue to show people who come into the discussion that you're simply wrong.

Ahhh, so when you say something we are expected to accept it as fact but when anyone shows evidence to the contrary it is considered whining. Got it, it's the MMO way.

everyone who has a complaint should be able to back that up with in game examples, videos and screenshots (incidentally like I've been doing on the PTS since day 1

Yeah I saw your video of a VR14 taking down VR10 mobs. I also noticed that your pet died 20 seconds into the encounter and was never resummoned. If it wasn't worth resummoning when it was instant cast and cost a small fraction of the magicka it does now then how much is it worth summoning now once it dies?

And your video proved absolutely nothing. I am no closer now to understanding how Sorcerers compare to other classes than I was before watching it. Only thing it proved was that VR14 Sorcerers can take down VR10 mobs.

But you're wrong about LL, to evaluate a DOT you need to count how much total damage it does over the duration.

Yes, but a DOT that stays with the target will always have a much better chance of completing that total damage than a GTAOE covering a very small area.

The radius isn't as small as it looks either

No, I'm pretty sure it is exactly as small as it looks. Do you have any evidence that the damage exceeds the area of the circle? And if size doesn't matter then why are all other AOEs larger? Unless of course it isn't actually intended as an AOE but rather an ST ability in which case why not have the DOT remain with the ST?

For me personally I would much rather see either
Shorter duration GTAOE with larger radius and more damage.
or
ST DOT that either targets the enemy or a small GTAOE that stays with the target.

daemonios

Yusuf wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Since this discussion is no longer PTS-specific, and is very pertinent to Sorcerers on Live, we've moved it out of the PTS forum and into Combat & Character Mechanics.

We greatly appreciate the constructive and detailed feedback, and have been keeping an eye on this thread since its inception. Since it has a lot of great momentum, we're happy to see it continue!

That makes more sense. However, I note that you don't seem to be in such a rush to move certain other topics currently in General Discussions to other sub-forums:

- Why is nightblade the only class without a Damageshield or a Selfheal?
- Radiant destruction needs a nerf for PvP asap. Spammable "soul assualt"?
- [BUG] Flames of oblivion +mage light
- Change to Argonians best passive still not in the notes
- ...

Sorcs made too much noise during PTS?

Nightblades have mark target and sap essence & funnel health. Sorcerers have a channel so please don't hijack this thread.
I have parked my sorcerer and started gearing up my nightblade.

I am NOT hijacking this thread. I was precisely noting that ZOS seems to be burying this discussion under a sub-forum, while keeping other class-specific complaints in General Discussions. I've been very vocal about the poor place Sorcs are at right now, and have contributed statistics from the Trials leaderboards that show Sorcerers to be way underrepresented (~15% of groups, with many not carrying a single Sorc) while DKs are way overrepresented (>45% of groups).

Cathexis

Sorcs are not fine in PvP they have absolutely no stamina management and damage is brutally bad.

Hridh

Cathexis wrote: »

Sorcs are not fine in PvP they have absolutely no stamina management and damage is brutally bad.

I would say, if you specialize in stamina build, that is not too bad, on the sta,/dmg DEALING aspect (all wrecking blow monkey spammers are equal).

BUT ! our magika class skills cost extremely high, and dmg utilty/survivability is hurt a lot! Is that true for other classes? Does Fiery weapon cost a stamina DK half (!!) it's magika like my crit surge does??

Snit

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

I for one have, frankly been insulted by Zenimax's dismissiveness, most pointedly in interview when challenged on Sorcerers. There really is no other way to describe being instantly marginalised by comments saying 'there will always be people that complain'.

That's their mindset: "Sorcs are fine, and the complaints simply reflect the fact that people always complain (especially in MMO's)." Once someone's opinion is formed, they tend to stick to it. Don't expect more than small, incremental changes.

I wonder what ZOS thinks of the fact that one class dominates PvE and PvP.

Snit

pppontus wrote: »

...this Sorc circle jerk

You're painting with a bit of a broad brush Keep in mind there are also people trying your build (from TF) right now, along with Alef Quatre's. I'm one. So far, so good in PvE. I won't have a final evaluation of it until I can do more of the content I care about (for PvE purposes, that's mostly Veteran Dungeons and DSA more than trials). In particular, I need to evaluate how many of the challenging bosses stand still long enough for Liquid Lightning's wonderful damage-per-cast to be relevant.

In terms of evaluating where sorc DPS stands, I think we all just need to give it a month. People will sort through things, and they'll have a better idea of where sorcs stand relative to DK's after running content for a while. In PvP, it's really the same -- we'll see how well sorcs compete with the current state of DK's and Temps. It's currently too soon to tell

In the meantime, we might as well turn down the volume on this discussion.

Snit

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

...against a static enemy, wearing the best gear in game allows a Sorc to come close to being dps competitive on that one limited metric

Keep the following in mind:

- At his last ESO Live, Eric Wrobel said they seek to balance DPS among the classes
- He did not say anything about healing, utility, survivability or flexibility of build, just "DPS"
- The devs have a static target dummy (which is evidently named "Eric Wrobel")
- Pppontus and others have tested against static targets, similar to the tests the devs probably performed

Everyone is right. The combat team wanted to balance DPS. They think they have. Others who tested in a similar fashion agree, and have FTC parses as evidence. I suspect they are correct. Sorc Magicka DPS probably is competitive with DK's or any other ranged DPS now. My own testing shows that my personal DPS has gone up a fair bit in similar conditions, so I can see a difference.

You're among those pointing out that sorcs still fall well below the top-two classes in everything else -- tanking, healing, solo survivability and group utility. You're right, too. And that's my concern with the class going forward, as well. I think we'll be OK on DPS, as the devs intended. At some point, they need to address everything else.

Sumpfheini

too many sorcs bitching about dps.

I want to raise awareness for the forgotten specs: Healer Sorcs, Tank Sorcs and Hybrid Sorcs, wee need way more love!

Demira

I have permanently parked my two Vet 14 Sorcerers until Zos does some positive constructive structuring for the class

sput4ueb17_ESO

tonight in darkshade caverns sorcerer was completely useless... The class is dead


aaa I forgot sorcerer is great if you want to escape from guards... other then that he has also plenty of space to use as 1 extra bank

Cathexis

Hridh wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Sorcs are not fine in PvP they have absolutely no stamina management and damage is brutally bad.

I would say, if you specialize in stamina build, that is not too bad, on the sta,/dmg DEALING aspect (all wrecking blow monkey spammers are equal).

BUT ! our magika class skills cost extremely high, and dmg utilty/survivability is hurt a lot! Is that true for other classes? Does Fiery weapon cost a stamina DK half (!!) it's magika like my crit surge does??

Yep. Well, my specific problem with stamina builds is that there is no skill that consistently returns stamina. It would be nice if they changed the dark exchange morph that allows movement (useless) to a stamina health for mana regen (at the same rate as the alt morph) and also changed surge+morphs to the longer duration and replaced the longer duration morph with a % chance to return XX% stamina based on damage.

Also, on a separate note, bolt escape + morphs should...
(A) travel twice as far, given the mana costs (since BE/morphs require at least 3 casts to get to safety, usually 4 at present).
(B) always (for any morph) still have the aoe stun (because right now BE morphs are just utility preferences, and thus not upgrades)
(C) scale better with mana pools (my suggestion would be for it to consume mana at a % basis, with a minimum remaining mana)

The summoning skill line also needs a complete overhaul. Just thinking out loud...They need to make hostile daedra tamable and get rid of the current pets, and also improve the ai skills/speed/tactics. Then use the rest of the skill line for different summoned weapons (it would be cool if these could be like mini swaps with their own skill bars so like go from using two hand to a summoned bow). I mean if they are going to give us absolutely crap all damage, then at least give us the ability to counter everything.

...Summoned armor is kind of a bummer I think because you cat customize it and it isn't generally useful right now most of the time either.

Lightword

Please make the Sorc's the "BEST" Caster Dps in the game. Why you say? They are at their heart the best caster, well they are supposed to be according to the lore, in the game!

AssaultLemming

My sorc felt okay in lower craglorn, a bit soft in upper. What gear are you guys using now? I've got 4 piece martial, 2 adroitness, 2 torugs to stack spell damage. Still have soul shine jewellery because I've got no replacement for it currently. 24k magicka, 17k health with vr5 food. Missing one enchantment that I will craft today which will probably need to be a health enchantment, and I need to change my mundus from crit to magicka.

I'm not sure if pure spell damage is the best way to go, or if I should be looking to stack max magicka instead...

Septimus_Magna

AssaultLemming wrote: »

My sorc felt okay in lower craglorn, a bit soft in upper. What gear are you guys using now? I've got 4 piece martial, 2 adroitness, 2 torugs to stack spell damage. Still have soul shine jewellery because I've got no replacement for it currently. 24k magicka, 17k health with vr5 food. Missing one enchantment that I will craft today which will probably need to be a health enchantment, and I need to change my mundus from crit to magicka.

I'm not sure if pure spell damage is the best way to go, or if I should be looking to stack max magicka instead...

If you stack spell damage you will run out of magicka quickly during longer fights. I use 2x magicka regen from arch-mage and seducer set on my Altmer sorc and even I have some trouble managing magicka, especially in AOE situations. Also Im not sure that vamp is still as viable as before because the fire resist enchants have been nerfed by a factor 2-3. But I think the magicka and stamina regen from the vamp passives will be very important because its seems a lot harder to manage resources.So that would mean magicka dps will become even more glass canon.

GilGalad

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

My sorc felt okay in lower craglorn, a bit soft in upper. What gear are you guys using now? I've got 4 piece martial, 2 adroitness, 2 torugs to stack spell damage. Still have soul shine jewellery because I've got no replacement for it currently. 24k magicka, 17k health with vr5 food. Missing one enchantment that I will craft today which will probably need to be a health enchantment, and I need to change my mundus from crit to magicka.

I'm not sure if pure spell damage is the best way to go, or if I should be looking to stack max magicka instead...

If you stack spell damage you will run out of magicka quickly during longer fights. I use 2x magicka regen from arch-mage and seducer set on my Altmer sorc and even I have some trouble managing magicka, especially in AOE situations. Also Im not sure that vamp is still as viable as before because the fire resist enchants have been nerfed by a factor 2-3. But I think the magicka and stamina regen from the vamp passives will be very important because its seems a lot harder to manage resources.So that would mean magicka dps will become even more glass canon.

Use spell cost reduction glyphs, since these are the only ones that were not nerfed. They are still good compared to set bonis while all other enchants are worse by a factor 3. With 3x spellcost reduction you can stack spelldmg on your armor without any magicka problems. Later with more CP put in cost reduction and regen you can go back to spelldmg glyphs or whatever you like.
I'm not a vampire atm and haven't tried because there is no way to survive AA or HRC or CoA as a vamp without loosing a lot of DPS.

Flaminir

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

My sorc felt okay in lower craglorn, a bit soft in upper. What gear are you guys using now? I've got 4 piece martial, 2 adroitness, 2 torugs to stack spell damage. Still have soul shine jewellery because I've got no replacement for it currently. 24k magicka, 17k health with vr5 food. Missing one enchantment that I will craft today which will probably need to be a health enchantment, and I need to change my mundus from crit to magicka.

I'm not sure if pure spell damage is the best way to go, or if I should be looking to stack max magicka instead...

If you stack spell damage you will run out of magicka quickly during longer fights. I use 2x magicka regen from arch-mage and seducer set on my Altmer sorc and even I have some trouble managing magicka, especially in AOE situations. Also Im not sure that vamp is still as viable as before because the fire resist enchants have been nerfed by a factor 2-3. But I think the magicka and stamina regen from the vamp passives will be very important because its seems a lot harder to manage resources.So that would mean magicka dps will become even more glass canon.

Use spell cost reduction glyphs, since these are the only ones that were not nerfed. They are still good compared to set bonis while all other enchants are worse by a factor 3. With 3x spellcost reduction you can stack spelldmg on your armor without any magicka problems. Later with more CP put in cost reduction and regen you can go back to spelldmg glyphs or whatever you like.
I'm not a vampire atm and haven't tried because there is no way to survive AA or HRC or CoA as a vamp without loosing a lot of DPS.

^^^ This!

I was worried about magicka sustain, but with around 24k magicka, & putting all my set bonuses into spell damage (As far as possible) but with 3 yellow spell cost reduction glyphs on the jewellery I was fine last night... struggled to run out... was just testing on world bosses etc though so nothing exactly drawn out or difficult.

shishkin_85eb17_ESO

Flaminir wrote: »

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

My sorc felt okay in lower craglorn, a bit soft in upper. What gear are you guys using now? I've got 4 piece martial, 2 adroitness, 2 torugs to stack spell damage. Still have soul shine jewellery because I've got no replacement for it currently. 24k magicka, 17k health with vr5 food. Missing one enchantment that I will craft today which will probably need to be a health enchantment, and I need to change my mundus from crit to magicka.

I'm not sure if pure spell damage is the best way to go, or if I should be looking to stack max magicka instead...

If you stack spell damage you will run out of magicka quickly during longer fights. I use 2x magicka regen from arch-mage and seducer set on my Altmer sorc and even I have some trouble managing magicka, especially in AOE situations. Also Im not sure that vamp is still as viable as before because the fire resist enchants have been nerfed by a factor 2-3. But I think the magicka and stamina regen from the vamp passives will be very important because its seems a lot harder to manage resources.So that would mean magicka dps will become even more glass canon.

Use spell cost reduction glyphs, since these are the only ones that were not nerfed. They are still good compared to set bonis while all other enchants are worse by a factor 3. With 3x spellcost reduction you can stack spelldmg on your armor without any magicka problems. Later with more CP put in cost reduction and regen you can go back to spelldmg glyphs or whatever you like.
I'm not a vampire atm and haven't tried because there is no way to survive AA or HRC or CoA as a vamp without loosing a lot of DPS.

^^^ This!

I was worried about magicka sustain, but with around 24k magicka, & putting all my set bonuses into spell damage (As far as possible) but with 3 yellow spell cost reduction glyphs on the jewellery I was fine last night... struggled to run out... was just testing on world bosses etc though so nothing exactly drawn out or difficult.

Hi fellows.
By the way which solo target DPS you have reached?
Which rotation fro Solo AOE DPS you are using?
I was going the way of cost reduction glyphs on two jewelery and keep one for spell damage still.
Gear Idea the same:
2x pc tourug's pact
4x pc Matrial.
3x pc Warlock (Neck Needed) - Still missing one head of Arche mage to finish
2x pc Impetium ring (They now give spell damage) - Will be changed later to Cyrodil light.
Inferno Staff with penetration
Mundus also penetration (will check also Thief and Mage)
Magica 24K and Health 20K with food VR10.

Unfortunately for Mamonth have not reached more than 8,5K DPS.
In AOE was OK to get 28K-37K.

Will be glad to discuss further but see not to much really bad by Sorc now. Builds has to be fine tuned still but it looks like it flies.

Jar_Ek

I thought that the general consensus was that magicka dps sorcerers were basically okay - although the costs of skills could use a downwards nudge. But that pretty much every other flavour of sorcerer was struggling...

There are no good stamina morphs that are actually attacks, the magicka costs of abilities are too high for stamina sorcerers (expert mage change hurt), there is nothing for healers and not much for tanks.

Some of the glaring problems lie in the decision to tie much of the sorcerer capability to 2 abilities - winged twilight and unstable familiar. There are 2 passives that are exclusively linked to these pets, and now 2 additional morphs that are linked to them. Plus one pet now has a heal on despawn. Yet they are unreliable and essentially uncontrollable (eat heals, activate boss abilities, and have no real UI), and take an additional slot on a second (and third) bar to avoid them despawning. Although they have been made more mechanically attractive(better dps, less damage from aoe, heal on despawn), they are still unwieldy for anything except pve buffing and dps (as they only taunt one enemy they cannot be used as effective tanks for solo play imo). Even the heal on despawn is the only heal that someone else can kill! and it comes with at least a 1.3s recast... plenty of interrupt time.

However my point is really that zos seen to have dumped too much into the pets and not really thought much past magicka dps or magicka PvP maybe. The changes have hit pretty much all other builds (healers, tanks, stamina pvp, even stamina solo). Some of this can be offset by pretty much ignoring all the sorcerer skills, but then why be a sorcerer for the 2 skills that are of use?

Oh and one final point about Surge. Please make it a stamina ability at baseline and for critical surge.
I would like the CD removed and a cap on heals added. But tbh anything that made it effectively worth taking would be good.

Here are a few suggestions (obviously these are mutually exclusive, mostly):
Provide a savergy buff rather than brutality (no longer competes with weapon buffs)
Remove the CD but place a cap on aoe critical heals (6 has been mentioned)
Remove the CD for melee ranged
Reduce the CD to 0.05s or smaller to allow all criticals except simultaneous aoe to heal.
Cap the attainable healing within the CD time span, but remove the CD
Provide an alternative healing mechanism (ie each crit heals x%health).
Critical hits build a shield, rather than heal (to a max shield strength)

Nightreaver

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

If you stack spell damage you will run out of magicka quickly during longer fights. I use 2x magicka regen from arch-mage and seducer set on my Altmer sorc and even I have some trouble managing magicka, especially in AOE situations. Also Im not sure that vamp is still as viable as before because the fire resist enchants have been nerfed by a factor 2-3. But I think the magicka and stamina regen from the vamp passives will be very important because its seems a lot harder to manage resources.So that would mean magicka dps will become even more glass canon.

Use spell cost reduction glyphs, since these are the only ones that were not nerfed. They are still good compared to set bonis while all other enchants are worse by a factor 3. With 3x spellcost reduction you can stack spelldmg on your armor without any magicka problems. Later with more CP put in cost reduction and regen you can go back to spelldmg glyphs or whatever you like.
I'm not a vampire atm and haven't tried because there is no way to survive AA or HRC or CoA as a vamp without loosing a lot of DPS.

Have you tried the Nirnhoned trait on your weapon?
On a gold VR14 weapon it increases Spell resistance and spell penetration by 18%. I'm currently finding it to give the best DPS increase as well as a much needed increase to spell resist.

GilGalad

Nightreaver wrote: »

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

If you stack spell damage you will run out of magicka quickly during longer fights. I use 2x magicka regen from arch-mage and seducer set on my Altmer sorc and even I have some trouble managing magicka, especially in AOE situations. Also Im not sure that vamp is still as viable as before because the fire resist enchants have been nerfed by a factor 2-3. But I think the magicka and stamina regen from the vamp passives will be very important because its seems a lot harder to manage resources.So that would mean magicka dps will become even more glass canon.

Use spell cost reduction glyphs, since these are the only ones that were not nerfed. They are still good compared to set bonis while all other enchants are worse by a factor 3. With 3x spellcost reduction you can stack spelldmg on your armor without any magicka problems. Later with more CP put in cost reduction and regen you can go back to spelldmg glyphs or whatever you like.
I'm not a vampire atm and haven't tried because there is no way to survive AA or HRC or CoA as a vamp without loosing a lot of DPS.

Have you tried the Nirnhoned trait on your weapon?
On a gold VR14 weapon it increases Spell resistance and spell penetration by 18%. I'm currently finding it to give the best DPS increase as well as a much needed increase to spell resist.

I also like the nirnhoned on my sorc specially the spell resistance helps a lot. I made two dailies with my sorc now and have to say that the trash mobs are a lot harder and the bosses ok. In BC for example you can't use liquid lightning on most of the bosses, so the DPS is not that good (around 10k).

Lightword

Pets are for ranger like classes, summons are awesome when they don't take an ability slot, and Sorc's are dun'stam builds now.

Tankqull

and could we get atleast one spell back that is not affected by either block or reflect or in worst case both, while beeing treated as projectiles when used against shield users in terms of dmg reduction and stamina consumption?


its a bit harsh... you can barely bypass someones health reg as a sorc...

b92303008rwb17_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your patience. We do have a status to share regarding Sorcerers as they currently stand.

First, there is one outstanding issue with Crystal Fragments not proccing when you cast Bolt Escape; we are aiming to fix this by time Update 6 is live. While we aren’t planning to implement any additional changes before Update 6 goes live, we will be keeping a very close eye on how Sorcerers – and all classes – perform in a Live environment, and will make tweaks as necessary. With Update 6 just around the corner, we don’t want to make any drastic changes that could affect gameplay in a negative way.

That said, we do have plans to make the Sorcerer more effective as a stamina DPS, tank, and healer. The first change we already made towards that direction is allowing the Clannfear to heal the caster based on their maximum health when the Clannfear is killed or dismissed. In a future update, we will be looking at giving the Sorcerer unique ways to fulfill the healer role, or deal damage with stamina-based abilities. Some specific issues we will also be evaluating are the number of toggled abilities on the class, Surge healing cooldown, and tweaks to make Dark Exchange more useful.

Please continue to report any issues you may come across, and thank you for all your support and feedback!

Can we have a rough ETA on some of the changes please? Are they going to hit live server before or after Tamriel Unlimited, April, May, or even console release? I am thinking about making a new alt with the influx of new players in two weeks if no meaningful changes are going to happen in the near future. Simply a rough schedule will do. Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno .

cote-bmsb16_ESO

Rather sad when a sorc with a destro staff is weak as hell in comparison to other builds.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

.... In a future update, we will be looking at giving the Sorcerer unique ways to fulfill the healer role, or deal damage with stamina-based abilities. Some specific issues we will also be evaluating are the number of toggled abilities on the class, Surge healing cooldown, and tweaks to make Dark Exchange more useful. ....

I wonder (End Game PVE based questions & thoughts)

To me it looks like as if the Sorc becomes a Jack of all Trades - but still weaker than all the other classes.

The sorc is a mage and a mage usually uses magicka - why is using magicka punished and why does Zenimax attempt to boost "Stamina" on a Sorc but not Magicka?

Don't get me wrong here. If a Sorc can go epic support or epic dps with Stamina - that is fine. But the same should go for magicka, too. If someone prefers to haul fire balls instead of arrows, this should not be punished.

Because, as soon as you make skills less good because they base on XYZ instead on ABC... you could as well delete those because no one is going to use them (except for those who didn't know better in the beginning and have to reskill).

Magicka and Stamina based skills should be equal when it comes to "usefulness".

Is Zenimax even aware how many skills are not really used, because most of them are useless and there is always the more or less same set of Ultimates and Skills everyone uses to manage the DPS Races?`

Let's face it - End Game content is most of the time a dps-race. If you don't deal enough dps in a set amount of time, you are going to fail.
From what I have seen now since the Release of 1.6 - do a group with 3 DKs and 1 Templar or 2 DKs, 1 NB and one Templar - you run faster and smoother than when you waste a spot with a Sorc.

A Jack of All Trades and Master to none... nice concept but not doable in a MMORPG that mainly harbors DPS-Race based End Game content.

On top of that - The pets are nice, but pretty useless in End Game content. They can be used, yes, but they do not really add any "must have" benefit. Plus, they eat up redundant skill-bar-slots. So at least 2 X 3 Skill Slot bars are wasted on pets... leaves only 2 X 2 slots for something else... like Daedric Prey and that Daedric Shield thing... and the other two for some nukes... and the execute spell, but not much else like Critical Surge...

For solo conent that is OK, but not in End Game where everyone has to be able to deal AoE dps and make sure that as much mobs die as quickly as possible.
The emphasis lies on "as quickly as possible" Sorry Zenimax, you introduced that End Game concept... DPS-Race. Now hand out the skills to all classes to be able to equally meet those expectations.

my 2 Cents.