1.6.5 Sorcerer detailed balance feedback

Hutuldur

I like my sorc. Very powerful in PVP and just soloed group dungeon in Craglorn for testing purposes so that seemed ok too.

I will use my stamina NB for trials though, but for everything else, I am happy with the sorc.

Joy_Division

Snit wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

He's 1v20 in enemy keep.

No, he isn't. I'm in that video (I didn't die). There are 20+ more reds on the second and first floors, busy taking the keep. The other AD are displaying a spectacular lack of situational awareness, focused on those downstairs. That's a gap in player skill, not class balance.

Teargrants is very good, but that was mostly him Line of Sighting folks and killing the occasional person on siege. He did nail one Templar who thinks that opening up on a full-health target with Radiant D is the path to glory (it's usually not).

But, but, Radiant D OP!!!

Snit

Joy_Division wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

He's 1v20 in enemy keep.

No, he isn't. I'm in that video (I didn't die). There are 20+ more reds on the second and first floors, busy taking the keep. The other AD are displaying a spectacular lack of situational awareness, focused on those downstairs. That's a gap in player skill, not class balance.

Teargrants is very good, but that was mostly him Line of Sighting folks and killing the occasional person on siege. He did nail one Templar who thinks that opening up on a full-health target with Radiant D is the path to glory (it's usually not).

But, but, Radiant D OP!!!

Heh As we've learned, it really isn't (not since the bugfix, anyway). Personally, the easiest fights I find are Templars who start a one-on-one fight against a full-resource, fully shielded sorc with Radiant D. There's almost no way I can screw that up.

chongguang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdzYuKEzW58

I get this link from reddit, very nice pvp sorcerers heavy armor video

What do u think about this build ? Can use it as a tank sorcerers in PVE???

LameoveR

chongguang wrote: »

I get this link from reddit, very nice pvp sorcerers heavy armor video

What do u think about this build ? Can use it as a tank sorcerers in PVE???

Ah, Teargrants.
[sarcasm]
What? It's a crap! He's only light bolting and killing AFK players!
I didn't even take a look at this video, i know what is there. Sorcs nerfed, they can't in pvp. It's a fake.
Buff the sorcs! Buff the sorcs! Buff the sorcs!
[/sarcasm]

chongguang

LameoveR wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

I get this link from reddit, very nice pvp sorcerers heavy armor video

What do u think about this build ? Can use it as a tank sorcerers in PVE???

Ah, Teargrants.
[sarcasm]
What? It's a crap! He's only light bolting and killing AFK players!
I didn't even take a look at this video, i know what is there. Sorcs nerfed, they can't in pvp. It's a fake.
Buff the sorcs! Buff the sorcs! Buff the sorcs!
[/sarcasm]

It an 1vMany video , what do u expect then ?

Crescent

LameoveR wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

I get this link from reddit, very nice pvp sorcerers heavy armor video

What do u think about this build ? Can use it as a tank sorcerers in PVE???

Ah, Teargrants.
[sarcasm]
What? It's a crap! He's only light bolting and killing AFK players!
I didn't even take a look at this video, i know what is there. Sorcs nerfed, they can't in pvp. It's a fake.
Buff the sorcs! Buff the sorcs! Buff the sorcs!
[/sarcasm]

And this is why we can't have nice things in PvE. The PvP people playing the wrong genre for competitive gaming will always get in the way of PvE balance, which can be achieved unlike in PvP where everyone will always complain because they lost a 1v1 against X class.

Mumnoch

chongguang wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdzYuKEzW58

I get this link from reddit, very nice pvp sorcerers heavy armor video

What do u think about this build ? Can use it as a tank sorcerers in PVE???

No, his build would need some things changed to survive in a PVE environment. Sorc's can tank in PVE, there are just a few (3) other classes that have better tools.

This guy is full on defensive waiting on Ultimate and lucky proc's to get the few kills he does get.

Mumnoch

LameoveR wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

I get this link from reddit, very nice pvp sorcerers heavy armor video

What do u think about this build ? Can use it as a tank sorcerers in PVE???

Ah, Teargrants.
[sarcasm]
What? It's a crap! He's only light bolting and killing AFK players!
I didn't even take a look at this video, i know what is there. Sorcs nerfed, they can't in pvp. It's a fake.
Buff the sorcs! Buff the sorcs! Buff the sorcs!
[/sarcasm]

You are correct in the Buff the sorc's for PVE. PVP no one has ever said Sorc's needed anything buff. They have the most movement abilities out of the classes, of course someone playing to this strength is going to do ok. Doesn't change the fact that Night Blades, Templars, and Dragonknights have more DPS, can heal better, and tank better in a PVE environment.

LameoveR

Here is a problem, buffing sorc in PVE. It will affect pvp component.

Well, it's about month passed from "we will work to get some answers" and no comments yet.
I personally don't feel any discomfort now, on vet5. But i really wonder what will be in group dungeons.

Crescent

LameoveR wrote: »

Here is a problem, buffing sorc in PVE. It will affect pvp component.

Well, it's about month passed from "we will work to get some answers" and no comments yet.
I personally don't feel any discomfort now, on vet5. But i really wonder what will be in group dungeons.

lol vet 5 and you feel entitled to comment on sorc pve let alone anything endgame related with sorcerer?

LameoveR

Crescent wrote: »

lol vet 5 and you feel entitled to comment on sorc pve let alone anything endgame related with sorcerer?

Uh.. I'm really vet4, but almost vet5.
Why not?

Eddzo101

Crescent wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

Here is a problem, buffing sorc in PVE. It will affect pvp component.

Well, it's about month passed from "we will work to get some answers" and no comments yet.
I personally don't feel any discomfort now, on vet5. But i really wonder what will be in group dungeons.

lol vet 5 and you feel entitled to comment on sorc pve let alone anything endgame related with sorcerer?

any changes to the game affect all levels not just VR14 and pvp

Jar_Ek

@Crescent tbh many of the sorcerer issues are so glaringly obvious that you can see them long before vr levels...

gurugeorgey

Crescent wrote: »

And this is why we can't have nice things in PvE. The PvP people playing the wrong genre for competitive gaming will always get in the way of PvE balance, which can be achieved unlike in PvP where everyone will always complain because they lost a 1v1 against X class.

I tend to agree, and I don't know why developers keep battering their head against this brick wall. For PvP, numbers have to be balanced, so that it's SOLELY player skill that decides an outcome.

Having outcomes decided partly by random things that belong in a roleplaying/RPG environment, like what lucky drops you've had or how long you've been playing the game in some particular focussed way, is fine for PvE, but absolutely dumb for PvP.

Having to constantly shave and fiddle with numbers here and there must surely be a constant headache for the devs, and a constant source of aggravation to players. Nobody's happy with it.

Solution: if you must have PvP in an RPG context, actual numbers must auto-balance in PvP encounters. My primary attack does exactly the same damage as your primary attack. Etc., etc.

Otherwise the nonsense is just endless.

Valrien

Slightly off-topic, but is the "tank" build in the OP still good? Is it viable at all for tanking dungeons and maybe raids?

LameoveR

Valrien wrote: »

Slightly off-topic, but is the "tank" build in the OP still good? Is it viable at all for tanking dungeons and maybe raids?

There was clannfear instant cast. Now it's 1.3 sec cast. Clannfear was used for instant 35% healing.
So, it's up to you.

Triddle

Crescent wrote: »

Having outcomes decided partly by random things that belong in a roleplaying/RPG environment, like what lucky drops you've had or how long you've been playing the game in some particular focussed way, is fine for PvE, but absolutely dumb for PvP.

I think RPG elements can really add to world PvP, where you have ganking and death-loss. Coming up against a player who, in the first instances of the fight you realize just has a better character than you do, and your only option is to run can be really exhilarating. Unless you have the rarest drop super sword of doom, or you're just a complete dud, you know you fall somewhere on a spectrum, some players you will wipe the floor with, some will wipe the floor with you and you have to make tactical decisions based on what you see in the fight about how to deal with impending doom. Put player looting into the equation and now you have exciting PvP.

Of course ESO has instanced play-fight PvP, so this is not really relevant. Just thought I'd point out that I disagree that its 'dumb for PvP'. Maybe dumb for instanced PvP, certainly the right way to handle open world PvP. As to class balance, I think its important for any good PvP that there be some level of balance. Doesn't need to be too fine, just not gaping chasms for power-gaps.

Personally I wish they'd just balance this game purely around PvE, but then I hate instanced PvP. Love counter-strike, don't need it in my MMORPGs.

SmalltalkJava

Where in the first post is the actual build laid out? I don't see a build in there unless I missed it. I want to run a pet+melee sorc build.

Mumnoch

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Where in the first post is the actual build laid out? I don't see a build in there unless I missed it. I want to run a pet+melee sorc build.

Due to how dumbed down the Sorcerer class is I'll give it to you in a nut shell.

If you are wanting to run a pet heavy build then 4 of your button's are now used for pet, pet, shield that buffs pets dmg, and rune that buffs pets dmg. Have fun picking that 1 ability you have left, since you want melee pick one at random or pick the knockback, it seems popular. for 2nd bar you have the same 4 (or just the pets) and now you have 1-3 buttons (woot, 1-3 right!?).

TBH though if you must play Sorc you don't want to play a hybrid build. We are not that strong at stamina to begin with (class ability morphs) and with the Pet's being Toggle's that you MUST keep on both bars or they disappear...well there's not a lot of options so any should work.

LameoveR

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Where in the first post is the actual build laid out? I don't see a build in there unless I missed it. I want to run a pet+melee sorc build.

it's under second spoiler after "edit".

GilGalad

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Where in the first post is the actual build laid out? I don't see a build in there unless I missed it. I want to run a pet+melee sorc build.

Pets only scale of max magicka, so a melee stamina build with pets won't work well. To make pets effective you need to push your magicka as high as you can (e.g by using necropotence set, bound armor, inner light, ...).
I haven't tried a light armor tank with pets after they nerfed the clannfear and rebate passive, but it could still work (at least for dungeons), if you spam hardened ward and heal yourself with CF procs.
For a DPS pet build you could run bound armor, pets, force pulse and CF on one bar, liquid Lightning and daedric pray on the other bar. For AOE situations you use fire ring instead of daedric pray. But there are better builds for Sorc DPS (just google eso 1.6 sorc DPS build and try to find one that fits your play style).

I personally play my new DK atm. My sorc has done almost all of the archievements, even the 100 undaunted vet pledges, so I'm trying to get used to the DKs play style. Even with less training on my DK (hit vet 14 two weeks ago) I am able to deal more DMG in almost all situations, deal a lot more AOE dmg, provide more utility to the group, can heal better and deal dmg meanwhile (we killed Valkyn Skoria with 1 Tank, 1 DPS and me as Heal/DPS on the 4 th platform). For me the DK is a lot more fun atm because so many abilities synergize with each other and it's more than the sorcs 2 button playstyle.
The only situation where I had fun with my sorc is in PVP, where I am able to kill a lot of enemies even in 5 pieces of light armor. A well played sorc in PVP can be super powerful.

byrom101b16_ESO

Gil.Galad wrote: »

The only situation where I had fun with my sorc is in PVP, where I am able to kill a lot of enemies even in 5 pieces of light armor. A well played sorc in PVP can be super powerful.

You are correct here - it would be useful if they improved the protective abilities of LA in the Spell Resistance area back to where it was, and appropriately reduced the PvP spike-damage ability of Sorcs at the same time as increasing prolonged dps to equal the top end of truly balanced ranged dps output. That would presumably stop the trolling of PvE-predominant Sorc. threads by those who have been 'one-shotted' (when in fact it's usually 3+ abilities in play all at once...) by spiking Sorcs when their reflection or shield abilities weren't up...

deleted221205-002626

Im glad I found this thread cuz IM still working on my 1.6.5 build as well!

LameoveR

Summoning @ZOS_GinaBruno to this thread.
Hear us, please!

Drago Belsazar

Hello,

the 1.6.5. Patch lives now long enough, I feel I have to contribute to this discussion. I am a Sorcerer of first days and maybe father of high interactive playstile of Critical Rush + Teleport. I came back after a long break and I have to confirm - the game is a different one.

To understand my finishings I want to describe my game experiences. I am not the one, who declines the removal of diminishing returns, but I feel the game is now more limited. I think ESO started in 2014 with statement, you have the freedom to do really everything. And as this was claimed, you could really do everything effective. It was an amazing game experience playing a 2-Handed Sorc, while casting my spells. From patch to patch, after I quit ca. on 1.3, when Teleport became 50% more expensive casted 2nd time in 4 seconds. The Game feeled very interactive, very fast. This change of a skill is the best description what made ESO slow. I can understand the Teleport annoyed many players, used as an escape skill. But I think the skill was intended to use as a damage skill, remember Streak is doing damage. And I did not understand why it was not changed to:

Streak - If dealed no damage to an enemy. The costs of Magicka are doubled. No problem, there would be no more escape abusing. But you can use it as a damaging skill as what it was intended.

Bolt Escape - The Skill causing all players yelling Sorcerer is O.P. - Why it was not like: If no projectile is absorbed in 4 seconds, the costs of Magicka are doubled. That would not only lead to, that this skill is abused to escaping, you could also counter this skill, casting no projectiles against the bolt escaping sorcerer. I am no friend to skills you cannot counter - Game is getting slow.

And I think it is not okay claiming the phrase Sorcerer is O.P. No he is not. And it is an awful game feeling forced to use an must have skill to be O.P. I don't want to escape. I want to fight. What is O.P. of escaping? Who is killed by that? Sometimes I think all want to be Sorcerer a one shot. To make more AP.

When Streak got high expensive, Game started to feel limited. That was the time the odd crystal shard spamming Sorcerer was born for me and things really changed bad. I have to admit many things got better, and the Sorcerer is not anymore forced to spam Crystal Shards. There are alot more ways. But Game feels still slow.
There are only a few combinations of skills working. I don't think ZOS wants all Sorcerer to stack Magic Damage, Magicka, spamming/stacking Shield and after that go for DPS. Really? That's odd, and as this is the most effective way to play - there is no skill for this build needed. And yes, that's really O.P. But The Sorcerer is not. Never. Sorcerer is badiest Character with a big gap. Where are all the possibilites Sorcerers had when game gone alive. The Sorcerer is limited to these very few Limitations and that cannot be.

The only Case that felt Game getting faster was the fact, that you - ZOS - reduced Hitpoints to nearly Magicka/Stamina rate. And when I came back to game - 1.6.5. - it felt like Counterstrike. No Shields up, Light Armor and even 30.000 Life, but 2 Shots Snipe. There is no way to counter. I have to rebuild my shields every x seonds to walk around in cyrodiil. In this often happened case you not even saw the enemy that killed you with 2 shots. While 30.000 Life is not low, yes this feels like Counterstrike - indeed. And for me, that is the wrong way changing the game to getting faster. Fast means not one DPS Skill is enough. Fast Gameplay is like you combine a clever used rotation, sometimes you need to change your rotation depends on the enemy you fight and there is the importance of survivability/movement that makes fight maybe really long between 2 characters, because there are ways to counter your enemy. At this time it is enough in most cases to see your enemy first and a decent Player can kill some of the best one. To explain my steps not only in Theory - For what a Sorcerer needs a Critical Surge - Survivability Skill - when you are still dead after 2 shots. The Survivability cannot begin to work, because the life is to low. If it were up to me. I would change things back to - 1 Magicka, 1 Stamina, 1.5 Life. That change would leave Players more options to counter, maybe the possibility to react and not only the fast statement. Oh, Im dead. What happened? That's why Shields are the only way to play for Sorcerers at this moment.

If the amount of Life does not change, think about scaling Ultimates not only with Magicka/Stamina, because it's nearly the same amount you get, but nearly no Life Scaling abilities.

And without this Life based Survivability there is no balancing, not even in the sorcerer class itself. The Light Armor damage-shield using sorcerer is harder to kill than the one with Heavy Armor? And while this is the fact. The Light Armor shield using Sorcerer is of course doing much more DPS?

Let's begin to look about the skills:

Snit wrote: »

We need to know if the new Unstable Clannfear heal-on-unsummon behavior is intended. It's a powerful self-heal. But chain summoning a pet (for a 35% heal each cycle) seems odd enough that I wonder if it's meant to act that way.

If it is intended to act that way, it's time we sorcs stopped talking about our poor class self-heal. 1.6 Unstable Clannfear is basically a slightly clunkier premorph Dragon Blood.

I think that is the meaning of really every sorcerer. Who wants to summon a Clannfear, kill it to heal yourself and spam this? That is the most odd way I have ever seen. I would not use this skill, even when it were the most O.P. skill in whole ESO, because the mechanic looking stupid.

GreyRanger wrote: »

I would love to see a viable Sorc heal and tank, but this mechanic for a self heal is just awful, in my view. Just give us dragon blood under a new name and skin if you want to start balancing things out, thank you.

That's why I think there is need of a morph for these Summon skills for an effect without summoning a pet, for those who don't want to use pets, but not destroying a whole Skill-Line in that case. And for me It's not a buff to buff all Pet-Skills, and nerf other Sorcerer skill instead. In many cases you nerfed the Sorcerer. And I really hope the sorcerer is not forced one day to use Summons to be very effective. Therefore it is impossible to change the Toggle status of pets. Because ZOS would force a min/maxing Player and for Trials it is a must to go with the most effective way to play. It would lead to a buff bar for sorcerer, recasting every maybe 20 seconds to recast the pets. That would be odd too.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your patience. We do have a status to share regarding Sorcerers as they currently stand.

First, there is one outstanding issue with Crystal Fragments not proccing when you cast Bolt Escape; we are aiming to fix this by time Update 6 is live. While we aren’t planning to implement any additional changes before Update 6 goes live, we will be keeping a very close eye on how Sorcerers – and all classes – perform in a Live environment, and will make tweaks as necessary. With Update 6 just around the corner, we don’t want to make any drastic changes that could affect gameplay in a negative way.

That said, we do have plans to make the Sorcerer more effective as a stamina DPS, tank, and healer. The first change we already made towards that direction is allowing the Clannfear to heal the caster based on their maximum health when the Clannfear is killed or dismissed. In a future update, we will be looking at giving the Sorcerer unique ways to fulfill the healer role, or deal damage with stamina-based abilities. Some specific issues we will also be evaluating are the number of toggled abilities on the class, Surge healing cooldown, and tweaks to make Dark Exchange more useful.

Please continue to report any issues you may come across, and thank you for all your support and feedback!

I take this comment as my hope that there will be more ways to play a sorcerer effective. Many Players want to be unique. And ESO is amazing because of the fact that you can roll whatever you want. But there should not be that big gap between DPS, Healers, Tanks of different classes. If it stays how it is, you can remove that option - saying Sorcerer: Only DPS - not intended to play as Tank. You would protect noobs, going for a not working play of style and have a bad game experience and quit after some weeks. Because they feel betrayed, read about you can using a casting sorcerer with a sword, but the sword itself making no damage anymore.

Before I start suggestions of Skill adjustments, I want to speak about some logical errors.

1.) Passives: Passives that affects only Sorcerer abilities and these which provides no effect for individual gameplay and cannot be affected, makes no sense.
Rebate - Why there is used a Passive to give Magicka back when a Pet dies? That effect should be added to the skills itself. It is a wasted Passive. It could be removed, like the really good adjustment to Expert Mage. I have no clue how to change this Passive to make any sense. Maybe added Regeneration by x% for every Daedric Summoning Skill.
Expert Summoner - Again Wasted. Why these Effects cannot be added to the skills itself? It could changed to: For every skill out of the Daedric Summoning tree, the damage/hitpoints of your summons are risen by x%. That would strengthen specified summoners.
Blood Magic - Again Wasted. Why this Effect cannot be added to the Dark Magic skills itself? More Useful could be and a way to strengthen builds with high Hitpoints that profits from this Blood Magic ability: Everytime you receiving damage you absorb x% (means doing damage to attacking target like returning shields, and stealing those Hitpoints added to yourself) scaled by your life. It would strengthen Tanks Survivability/DPS to close Gap between other Classes and would open a way to play a Life Sorc instead a Shield Sorc, and would lead to, that Heavy Armor make more sense. This effect would perfectly fit in what Blood Magic means.
Persistance - Again Wasted. Why this Effect cannot be added to the Dark Magic skills itself? More Useful: For every Dark Magic ability slotted your Heal is increased by x%. To strengthen Heal Sorcerers.
Exploitation - Again Wasted. Why this Effect cannot be added to the/a Dark Magic skill/s itself? This Passive could be changed in: For every Enemy affected by Crowd Control out of the Dark Magic abilities. A maximum of x players are healed by y. To strengthen Heal Sorcerers and make them unique as Enemy Controllers.
It would lead to hybrid Healers not only healing and provide more capacitiy not only doing the same. I could see have some fun with this way of controlling healer. And best is: They would be completly different to other Healers and fit good in group play.
Energized - Again Wasted. Why the damage is not added to the skills itself? More Useful: For every Storm Calling ability, Elemental Damage is risen by x%? To make Sorcerer DPS stronger and uniqe. And it would differ between that Summoning, Healing Sorcerer - That you cannot be the best for all. That would provide protect anyone to be O.P.
Expert Mage - This Buff, supported by all Mage abilities lead to feel forced to maxing spell power and roll DPS as most effective. It's okay like it is. But remember there is a logical error while using 2 1-Handed Weapons that provides most Spell Power lead to highest DPS, while you don't do any damage with the 1-Handed Weapons itself. Therefore it might be better to add a x not a x% amount. Else 2 1-Handed Magicka Sorcerers, what makes no sense profits most.

For Disintegrated: There is no logical error: But what means low health target? It should be added to Tooltip in a % amount.

Now to the skills - But before I start, I want to remember what many others said: In all Cases there are better Characters to play. Even for DPS a Stamina build provides much more Damage, while he is much harder to kill.

Unstable Clannfear - Spamming sacrifice your Pets to heal yourself is a way of playing that - What I think - no Sorcerer or every other Character that fighting a Sorcerer is a skill he wants to see. It's is really odd. I also think the Sorcerer don't need a second Dragon-Blood skill, because the Sorcerer has with Shields and Crit Surge enough Survivability skills. BUT: The only Lack was indeed the lack of skill for Life-Sorc, I think this skill was intended to fill this lack and it's good that it is scaling with life. But it's really bad. Watch for example the Dragon Blood skill. It provides many, really many more and is Instant. And with high Hitpoints I think you are going for Tank. Now I want to see a Tank casting 1,3 seconds your Pets. Really. It makes no sense. It have to be Instant, but no odd sacrifice spamming. Or as I mentioned, make it a passive Life- Survivability boost, like I descriped upper for change example "Blood Magic". This second "Dragon Blood" many Sorcerers whished for, should scale with life to avoid O.P. combinations. When it scales with Spell Power and Magicka, all DPS could easy heal themselve. Better would be push Regen, like Dragon Blood, but Heal x% scaling with your Life, maybe, because Sorcerer has many Heal-Passives to fit to other skills a HoT like Momentum would be better. No direct Heal. That would avoid spamming this skill, when it's a HoT. But please no odd sacrificing your Pets for this. Another Idea: Make a Link between this Clannfear and the Sorcerer. x% of the damage dealt to the Sorcerer is absorbed by the Clannfear. BUT: In this Case it should aswell scaled by Hitpoints, because High DPS Sorcerer with this protect would be O.P. My Opinion: Damage of Pet scaling with Magicka like it is. Hitpoints of Clannfear in this Case, not the Winged Twilight, scaling with Hitpoints. Aswell the Solo Sorcerer would not loose his Tank Pet, when he is scaling with Magicka, because his Pet Shields are high enough.

Crystal Blast - Nearly no one using Crystal Blast, because the Fragments are much better. I think again about the Tank Sorcerer. While he is the only Sorcerer having high Hitpoints, he cannot use this passive ability, because Casting/Channeling Time is not possible for a Tank. I would recommend now an adjustment: 1. Crystal Blast should be an instant skill to fit for tanks, and AoE Damage would fit very good for this job to get initial aggro. 2. Because you could not counter this Crystal Blast, because it is instant - you could not dodge anymore in PvP and it would be O.P. - I would remove the Stun effect. 3. Because when it would be instant I would reduce damage to stay in line with the Crystal Fragments. If ZOS would takeover my suggestions I explained upper for the Crowd Controlling Healing Sorcerer I would give this abilitiy aswell an low - maybe 10% snare - only that this skill could be used as an Healing skill, but it needed a limit to x targets to avoid O.P. combinations.

Dark Exchange - While there is now a way to regen resources with Heavy attacks. I would remove the whole ability and replace with another effect. It could be used as a healing skill. Sacrifice your own Hitpoints for your party members by x%. That would buff a Healing Sorcerer and makes many more sense. Aswell it would be great for more strategic playstyle, because it's not an easy one sacrificing your own Hitpoints.

Daedric Curse - Both Morphs. This Skill is not often used and there is potential passed away using at least one of these Morphs as DoT to increase DPS. See, for only every 3,5 seconds and same amount of damage of crystal fragments, why I should take this skill? Only for Burst-Kill in PvP? Increase Damage, make it a DoT. Remember, with A crystal fragment you get aswell Hitpoints with Blood Magic. Between these 2 skills is a gap.

Bound Armor - This Toggle Ability is a joke and lacks potential. 1.) It's to weak for a Toggle Ability - Why it is not toggled by Weapon bar? If I switch the Bar, the buff is gone, but when I switch again, the buff is back again. But! There is a logical error aswell. Why I can maximize my damage casting a 1337 looking Armor? Adding x% Stamina is okay, because Stamina builds wearing atleast medium armor, and Sorcerer needs that few Stamina scaling abilities it has. But the x% Magicka make no sense receiving by an armor. It should be changed in x% Health. Aswell the 960? Armor and Spell Resistance are to low. And in Addition group play provides much Minor Armor/Spell Resistance buff so a change of receiving lesser damage would make more sense. But not with x% Magicka, it would have a to high impact, because lesser damage for light armor reduce to much and it would be O.P. Aswell it could reduce damage of x amount, so it would not affected by armor. Aswell there could be a morph to increase Healing RECEIVED, because it is an armor it would make no sense Healing more. Healing more would be O.P. aswell.

Lightning Splash - This Skill lacks Potential aswell. It's said Medium Armor needs to make more DPS than Light Armor, because he has to go infight. Okay, when I see Snipes damage it's not true. I would change one morph that is casted on yourself like an aura, maybe 6 meters radius. So you have to go infight. The Way is free to raise damage and/or time to x seconds. You go higher risk for more damage. Sounds fair in my opinion. This change is maybe the most important to rebalance fairness between light/medium armor.

Bolt Escape - 1 year now, and you just can't read it's not only 50% more expensive, it rips aswell half of your Magicka Regen for 4 seconds aswell. 1.) I recommend changes I mentioned upper. Costs should rise, when no damage dealt or no bolt escaped. Nerf this skill for Users that used this skill for attack-play is not fair. Nerf for Escaping is okay for me. And I have one wish to all of you. Do not claim Sorcerer is O.P. only because of Bolt Escaping. For Gods sake. Then add a passive that boosts you, for not having any form of Bolt Escaping in both of your weapon bars to fix the gap, because you are no longer O.P. You cannot forced to have a must have skill. That is odd.

Last but not least. Because of all the changes made. There is maybe a need of Magicka Swords or something like this. When game launched it was possible to play with Sword and casts with Magicka based abilities. Now you lost many abilities. The game losts many versatility.

Second Last but not least: Many players indentify with their characters and do not want to start a second, third or whatever character. But all the changes which was made to the fighting system force players to be most effective. At Launch there was no affect playing as a Sorcerer Breton and doing good damage with my 2 Handed Sword. Now I am forced to go with Stamina and as Breton I have now not used Magicka Buff in that case. So that you don't force Players to change characters and bury their beloved ones, it is needed to reroll race or get other passives you choose yourself from other races. Therefore you could do a very intensive Questline. OR: That those who made all these Twinks dont feel betrayed: You need a Twink of the race, which passives you want on level of the passive to skill out at maximum. That would be a nice link to your Twinks having an impact on your main using their passives if you want to. But if you destroying many people Builds, and they are not up to go for another character. I really do not want to know, how many players you lost because of this. That was a cost intesive decision and will be for future aswell.

I really hope some of my suggestions find the way to the game. All of them worth it.

Father

Mumnoch wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdzYuKEzW58

I get this link from reddit, very nice pvp sorcerers heavy armor video

What do u think about this build ? Can use it as a tank sorcerers in PVE???

No, his build would need some things changed to survive in a PVE environment. Sorc's can tank in PVE, there are just a few (3) other classes that have better tools.

This guy is full on defensive waiting on Ultimate and lucky proc's to get the few kills he does get.

I'm one of these ppl that always laughed at sorc tanks...I kinda regret that now.
Yesterday I went to AA with some friends...guess who tanked o_O !? A sorc tanked AA 3 times and even solo atronach at 20% alone with only 25k hp and footman / histbark. You can say meh i've seen ppl solo it but man...that surprised me

byrom101b16_ESO

Mumnoch wrote: »

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Where in the first post is the actual build laid out? I don't see a build in there unless I missed it. I want to run a pet+melee sorc build.

Due to how dumbed down the Sorcerer class is I'll give it to you in a nut shell.

If you are wanting to run a pet heavy build then 4 of your button's are now used for pet, pet, shield that buffs pets dmg, and rune that buffs pets dmg. Have fun picking that 1 ability you have left, since you want melee pick one at random or pick the knockback, it seems popular. for 2nd bar you have the same 4 (or just the pets) and now you have 1-3 buttons (woot, 1-3 right!?).

TBH though if you must play Sorc you don't want to play a hybrid build. We are not that strong at stamina to begin with (class ability morphs) and with the Pet's being Toggle's that you MUST keep on both bars or they disappear...well there's not a lot of options so any should work.

But the stamina Sorcerer fanatics want to re-organise the class into a hybrid - so if they get their way you can kiss goodbye to Zenimax doing any class improvements that are truly required, (except for the possible exception of healing), all to accommodate a bad idea.

You can pretty much bet that Zenimax won't be looking at pet functionality with their limited resources and the attention grabbing by the 'few in number' but 'great in posts volume' supporters for stamina hybridisation.

We need a forum-independent poll on what the Sorcerer playing population of the game really want and need, and we need it before they make more stupid mistakes with the class!

Tanis-Stormbinder

I think what we (Sorcerers) need is a reliable self heal and a slight bump up in dps. Maybe increase the Expert Mage passive up to 3 or 4%.

Drago Belsazar

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

I think what we (Sorcerers) need is a reliable self heal and a slight bump up in dps. Maybe increase the Expert Mage passive up to 3 or 4%.

That would force Sorcerers even more to roll as DPS. In my opinion they have to strengthen the options. And I really believe the stamina Sorcerer is not the Problem. Medium Armor provides most Critical Hits, Cirticial Surge 65% Self-Heal of the Damage which is nice with for example a Bow and don't forget your nice Armor. You can also Teleport. Well the Magicka Sorcerer needs alot more Slots to reach these Stages. But again the other Classes gave more Options, but I believe there are bigger Problems than the Stamina Sorcerer.

Father wrote: »

Mumnoch wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdzYuKEzW58

I get this link from reddit, very nice pvp sorcerers heavy armor video

What do u think about this build ? Can use it as a tank sorcerers in PVE???

No, his build would need some things changed to survive in a PVE environment. Sorc's can tank in PVE, there are just a few (3) other classes that have better tools.

This guy is full on defensive waiting on Ultimate and lucky proc's to get the few kills he does get.

I'm one of these ppl that always laughed at sorc tanks...I kinda regret that now.
Yesterday I went to AA with some friends...guess who tanked o_O !? A sorc tanked AA 3 times and even solo atronach at 20% alone with only 25k hp and footman / histbark. You can say meh i've seen ppl solo it but man...that surprised me

And I bet this Player would have absolved this task with every class. Question is how many players are able to do? I can assure you, it is not that easy. Think about a Dragonknight Tank with good resource Management what he is able to do. You cannot compare these Classes by picking those few Sorcerer Tanks and compare them to the mass of DK casual players.

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

We need a forum-independent poll on what the Sorcerer playing population of the game really want and need, and we need it before they make more stupid mistakes with the class!

Well, if that is the case, the new O.P. character is born, because DPS is buffed to hell and all are happy? Even Hardcore Gamers would leave one day because it's odd for lack of possibilities. That's why the Devs need to protect their players for these changes. There should be only a passive DPS buff, when Teleport is not chosen. That would prevent O.P. combinations. The common DPS I have seen from other Classes/Stamina-Builds is 20.000 DPS to Single Target. The Devs had to Buff the Magicka Sorcerer at least for 20% to come close to this ammount. Keep in mind Stamina Builds using Block/Dodge Ressource to deal damage, so you can't buff for 20%.

Sorcerer needs Buff for Healer, Summoner, HP-Tanks and maybe a DPS Boost when its prevent they don't using Bolt Escape/Streak. I really beg the Devs to read my written suggestions.