1.6.5 Sorcerer detailed balance feedback

Robbmrp · February 2015

Thank you @pppontus!

f047ys3v3n · February 2015

[/quote]

This makes sense to me, but I have to wonder how/if class population factors into class performance. If, just for example, there were 5x VR14 DKs for every 1 Sorc, then I could see how there is a problem, but it might not have anything to do with math. That's not an argument against buffs by any means, just a concern regarding expectations based on leaderboards.[/quote]

Chicken or egg? In this case we know. There are more DK's total and more DK's on the leaderboards because they are stronger not because the game started with more. How do we know? Well, Half those Dk's on the boards have old mothballed Sorc toons. I know those players and am around when the trial groups are formed. For the speed runs we choose what class balance we want then choose the best currently available players in each class. 2 Temp, 1 Sorc, 1NB, 8 DK for AA: 2 Temp, 2NB, 8 DK for Hel-ra: 3 Temp, 2 NB, 7 DK for Sanctum. There are basically DK's and players to support the DK's chosen based on the mechanics of the particular trial. That lone sorc in AA is actually there not even there kill things but to negate trash we skip.

The bottom line is that's what currently works best. Sorcs just lack both the DPS and support utility to be worth much. I call them the hollow class. Hopefully this changes in 1.6 I don't have near the info to comment on that now but the DPS will have to be very high as they lack much of any group utility.

On a side note, the massive decrease in ultimates after 1.6 coupled with the nerf to breath of life may actually perversely increase the number of DK's in trials to 100% as templars are primarily around for nova and breath and NB's are primarily around for veils. Unreliable and slow ultimate may change the strategy away from these classes. DK's do have very strong healing passives that absent breath may make them better than templars. It is conceivable the fastest runs could go all DK though I do not expect it.

Class balance is a tricky thing as either you have to have the classes very close in DPS so that player skill even amongst the very elite is more important than class or you have to contrive utilities and mechanics which require or advantage X number of Y class. This is part of the problem with all classes officially being supposed to be able to do all things. You can easily have one class that is better at all, or almost all of them if your not careful. That is the state as of 1.5 with DK being the clearly best DPS, and tank, with Templar the best heals, NB worth a few for utility, and Sorcs generally without a roll at which they perform compellingly. My worry with 1.6 is that I doubt the personnel making the decisions on balance have changed and so I doubt the results will be any better. Perhaps it will be Templars that are the new do everything class with DK's around only for utility. At least they have great utility skills in chains, igneous weapons, talons, and corrosive armor. It all remains to be seen and will take months to sort out.

Beleron · February 2015

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1586282#Comment_1586282

give her a simple vote. Something that ZOS cant see as flaming, trolling, raging, just a simple polite vote.

Lied · February 2015

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Chicken or egg? In this case we know. There are more DK's total and more DK's on the leaderboards because they are stronger not because the game started with more. How do we know? Well, Half those Dk's on the boards have old mothballed Sorc toons. I know those players and am around when the trial groups are formed. For the speed runs we choose what class balance we want then choose the best currently available players in each class. 2 Temp, 1 Sorc, 1NB, 8 DK for AA: 2 Temp, 2NB, 8 DK for Hel-ra: 3 Temp, 2 NB, 7 DK for Sanctum. There are basically DK's and players to support the DK's chosen based on the mechanics of the particular trial. That lone sorc in AA is actually there not even there kill things but to negate trash we skip.

The bottom line is that's what currently works best. Sorcs just lack both the DPS and support utility to be worth much. I call them the hollow class. Hopefully this changes in 1.6 I don't have near the info to comment on that now but the DPS will have to be very high as they lack much of any group utility.

I believe you, and it's not an attempt to invalidate your point when I say that I seriously doubt there would be a perfect class ratio in game if all classes were capable of the same DPS and same roles. Just like all alliances don't have the same population. There are people that will play DKs because they liked Skyrim, there are people that won't play Sorcs because they don't like pet classes, and I'd imagine the percentage of the leaderboard players that have v14 in each class isn't large.

Of course things can only be better with better balance. I'm just curious about how much a screenshot with 20 DKs has to do with there simply being 50 million DKs in the running.

daemonios · February 2015

Lied wrote: »

Of course things can only be better with better balance. I'm just curious about how much a screenshot with 20 DKs has to do with there simply being 50 million DKs in the running.

That may be part of the issue, but I've seen members of some of the largest trials guild state here in the forums that they currently don't take Sorcerers on speed runs, and don't plan to take them in 1.6. So yeah, the balance part of the issue is pretty serious IMHO.

pppontus · February 2015

daemonios wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Of course things can only be better with better balance. I'm just curious about how much a screenshot with 20 DKs has to do with there simply being 50 million DKs in the running.

That may be part of the issue, but I've seen members of some of the largest trials guild state here in the forums that they currently don't take Sorcerers on speed runs, and don't plan to take them in 1.6. So yeah, the balance part of the issue is pretty serious IMHO.

For everyone who is interested in the discussion about class balance and excluding Sorcs I recommend you read the reply I wrote here with some great input from @TehMagnus (Hodor) that explains how class exclusion happens and why it doesn't necessarily relate to Sorcerers + the fact that it can't (thus will never) be fixed: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1586672/#Comment_1586672

TL;DR: You need to decide.

Do I want to be #1 -> always reroll FOTM
Do I just want to play Trials and try to get as high on the leaderboards as I can -> find a guild willing to take you based on your skill and not your class

rfennell_ESO · February 2015

daemonios wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Of course things can only be better with better balance. I'm just curious about how much a screenshot with 20 DKs has to do with there simply being 50 million DKs in the running.

That may be part of the issue, but I've seen members of some of the largest trials guild state here in the forums that they currently don't take Sorcerers on speed runs, and don't plan to take them in 1.6. So yeah, the balance part of the issue is pretty serious IMHO.

The main issue was that dks were just far superior to every other class dps-wise. The majority of players are jjust not aware of "just how much". On some fights it's roughly double the dmg any other class can output, on tougher fights it's still a lot. On the serpent, for instance, dks have managed 1.8k dps for the entire fight. That's more than a sorcerer can do just with an execute phase (and only the execute phase).

The main issue is/was banner. That has been changed by the ultimate generation change and increased cost to banner. But it's likely still going to be an issue as dks also have the best tools in one kit, even with some erosion of them due to nerfs and overall game changes.

Reality is that even if a sorcerer did as much dps as dk. You still would rather have the dk. Chains, magma armor, reflective scales, better AE, banner still being best ultimate in game, green dragon blood, and lastly the ability to dot things up with fire (all affected by world on fire and kindling) which mitigates dps loss due to movement, ingeous shield... it's a great toolkit.

In comparison, if a sorc build actually competed in dps with a dk... what skills does a sorc bring that is useful to a raid? Negate? That's it... and it's been nerfed. Do restoring twilights stack the magicka regen buff? no? If they did is magicka regen worth bringing multiple sorcs for (who have to now carry a min of 2 toggles on bar)?

In many cases the same problems exist for pvp as well. Dks have dragon leap, reflective scales, spammable talons with no dr or immunity, banner, Green dragon blood, lava whip (heal), magma armor to cap incoming damage, chains, ingeous shield, molten weapons... Sorcs? negate and bolt escape! (both been nerfed).

I'd say these are the concerns that sorcerers have... and I don't see how any of it has been even remotely addressed.

Snit · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Do I want to be #1 -> always reroll FOTM

Two things to consider:

1) The FOTM has been the same class for a year. The basic pecking order has not changed since launch, though the gap has closed somewhat. This isn't one of those games where things shift every eight weeks

2) The FOTM for armor was light armor for a year. That will change next week. Dramatic shifts can happen. ZOS recognized that stamina builds underperformed, and they fixed it with a vengeance

The real issue is not player perceptions, but ZOS's perceptions. They've told us they think sorcs are fine and that player complaints about balance are inevitable (they said exactly that, two ESO Lives past). They're clearly getting feedback from someone they trust, and it has been "Pfft -- nerf bolt escape again."

If most of their feedback comes from serious PvP guilds, they're by definition talking to an audience that's half DK's. My guess is that most of their inner circle views sorcs more as mobs than PC's

pppontus · February 2015

Snit wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Do I want to be #1 -> always reroll FOTM

Two things to consider:

1) The FOTM has been the same class for a year. The basic pecking order has not changed since launch, though the gap has closed somewhat. This isn't one of those games where things shift every eight weeks

2) The FOTM for armor was light armor for a year. That will change next week. Dramatic shifts can happen. ZOS recognized that stamina builds underperformed, and they fixed it with a vengeance

The real issue is not player perceptions, but ZOS's perceptions. They've told us they think sorcs are fine and that player complaints about balance are inevitable (they said exactly that, two ESO Lives past). They're clearly getting feedback from someone they trust, and it has been "Pfft -- nerf bolt escape again."

If most of their feedback comes from serious PvP guilds, they're by definition talking to an audience that's half DK's. My guess is that most of their inner circle views sorcs more as mobs than PC's

Agreed on the most part, however DKs were not considered FOTM (in PVE) at the start. Sorcs were and then resto Nightblades (R.I.P. Cycle of Life). But that was mostly because no one had figured out all the builds etc. The final version of the DK that now does 1,6K+ DPS wasn't released until just a few months ago. There was also a time where 1K dps was an "omg" moment, and the reason we've went from that to 1K being unacceptable is 40% better builds, 40% player skill development and 20% VR12->14.

I'm just saying that we still have no idea what will be the FOTM in 1.6, because that changes, a lot. So it's too early to say that anyone is lagging behind, because we really don't know that. I'm sure we'll see 2H nerfs within a few weeks of 1.6 hitting, for example, but I'm not going to ask them to do that now because there's still a 100 different variables and absolutely no one has figured out the best possible build for any class <- that is a promise.

Y'know, it's not all as black and white as it seems right now. I've been there from the start more or less, and it hasn't been DK power as much as you might think

TehMagnus · February 2015

Snit wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Do I want to be #1 -> always reroll FOTM

Two things to consider:

1) The FOTM has been the same class for a year. The basic pecking order has not changed since launch, though the gap has closed somewhat. This isn't one of those games where things shift every eight weeks

So a year that people have been crying instead of leveling a new character (still talking about the people who want to be competitive, if you're not ready to do this & want to be competitive, you'll never win).

Snit wrote: »

2) The FOTM for armor was light armor for a year. That will change next week. Dramatic shifts can happen. ZOS recognized that stamina builds underperformed, and they fixed it with a vengeance

Not necessarily going to change

. I've cleared all the end game content 1.6 had to offer with 7/7 Light Armor and magicka DK still OP. Maybe we'll throw a couple of HA pieces here and there to get some armor/spell resist but LA still viable.

Snit wrote: »

The real issue is not player perceptions, but ZOS's perceptions. They've told us they think sorcs are fine and that player complaints about balance are inevitable (they said exactly that, two ESO Lives past). They're clearly getting feedback from someone they trust, and it has been "Pfft -- nerf bolt escape again."

They are right, there will always be balance issues, a class less good than the other, sorcs are good in PVP when played right and they are enough to clear any PVE content and more than enough to be top 10 in any time trial. You can't expect all classes to pull exactly the same DPS, never gonna happen.

If you're serious about being competitive and want to be in the top 3, you can't stop yourself at "but I like this class, I don't want to reroll". If you don't care about top 3 or top 10, then I don't understand why care and why QQ here, especially when sorcs have been buffed in 1.6.

Snit · February 2015

TehMagnus wrote: »

If you're serious about being competitive and want to be in the top 3, you can't stop yourself at "but I like this class, I don't want to reroll".

You're absolutely correct, as applies to this MMO and pretty much every other one. That's just how it always seems to work. However, the need to reroll is directly and inversely proportional to how much time and effort the dev team puts into class balance.

That gap can never be closed completely, so the top-end guilds will always experience it. However, for the other 98% of the player base, closing it somewhat makes a real difference. Many (most?) players simply won't accept "if you don't like it, reroll" as the answer.

TehMagnus · February 2015

Snit wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

If you're serious about being competitive and want to be in the top 3, you can't stop yourself at "but I like this class, I don't want to reroll".

You're absolutely correct, as applies to this MMO and pretty much every other one. That's just how it always seems to work. However, the need to reroll is directly and inversely proportional to how much time and effort the dev team puts into class balance.

That gap can never be closed completely, so the top-end guilds will always experience it. However, for the other 98% of the player base, closing it somewhat makes a real difference. Many (most?) players simply won't accept "if you don't like it, reroll" as the answer.

This is also true. With Sorcs now pulling 14k damage vs 15-18 for most other classes, gap is much closer than in 1.5 though.

Edit: Then again, if you're not competing and you can still get in top 10 with a skilled sorc, the gap isn't that big either atm (especially with such a small hardcore community ready to reroll at all costs).

Fayaburn · February 2015

TehMagnus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

If you're serious about being competitive and want to be in the top 3, you can't stop yourself at "but I like this class, I don't want to reroll".

You're absolutely correct, as applies to this MMO and pretty much every other one. That's just how it always seems to work. However, the need to reroll is directly and inversely proportional to how much time and effort the dev team puts into class balance.

That gap can never be closed completely, so the top-end guilds will always experience it. However, for the other 98% of the player base, closing it somewhat makes a real difference. Many (most?) players simply won't accept "if you don't like it, reroll" as the answer.

This is also true. With Sorcs now pulling 14k damage vs 15-18 for most other classes, gap is much closer than in 1.5 though.

Edit: Then again, if you're not competing and you can still get in top 10 with a skilled sorc, the gap isn't that big either atm (especially with such a small hardcore community ready to reroll at all costs).

You mean to tell me that Sorc pull 14k while bringing close to no utility and most other classes/builds pull 15-18k while getting better utility is fine because gap is closer than 1.5?

I truely hope that this statement reveals false when definite builds are sorted out for 1.6. However, I fear that even builds starting to near their maximum potential won't invalidate it.

TehMagnus · February 2015

Fayaburn wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

If you're serious about being competitive and want to be in the top 3, you can't stop yourself at "but I like this class, I don't want to reroll".

You're absolutely correct, as applies to this MMO and pretty much every other one. That's just how it always seems to work. However, the need to reroll is directly and inversely proportional to how much time and effort the dev team puts into class balance.

That gap can never be closed completely, so the top-end guilds will always experience it. However, for the other 98% of the player base, closing it somewhat makes a real difference. Many (most?) players simply won't accept "if you don't like it, reroll" as the answer.

This is also true. With Sorcs now pulling 14k damage vs 15-18 for most other classes, gap is much closer than in 1.5 though.

Edit: Then again, if you're not competing and you can still get in top 10 with a skilled sorc, the gap isn't that big either atm (especially with such a small hardcore community ready to reroll at all costs).

You mean to tell me that Sorc pull 14k while bringing close to no utility and most other classes/builds pull 15-18k while getting better utility is fine because gap is closer than 1.5?

I truely hope that this statement reveals false when definite builds are sorted out for 1.6. However, I fear that even builds starting to near their maximum potential won't invalidate it.

Well the only utility you actually need is Nova tbh...

Gotta say I didn't understand the nerf to Negate, then again, ZOS is trying to make ultimates less important for general gameplay it seems and I was against the change to ulti regen since day one...

Snit · February 2015

Fayaburn wrote: »

Gotta say I didn't understand the nerf to Negate.

PvP.

It's the same reason Bolt Escape has been nerfed multiple times. PvP.

TehMagnus · February 2015

Snit wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

Gotta say I didn't understand the nerf to Negate.

PvP.

It's the same reason Bolt Escape has been nerfed multiple times. PvP.

Ic, did negate work in PVP like ads negate in PVE? (even if you break out of it, if you ulti after breaking out, your ulti is dispelled)?

Fayaburn · February 2015

TehMagnus wrote: »

Well the only utility you actually need is Nova tbh...

Give Sorcs the DK chains and a Negate with the 30% damage reduction buff for group and I bet they will be much more desired even with lesser DPS.

pppontus · February 2015

TehMagnus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

Gotta say I didn't understand the nerf to Negate.

PvP.

It's the same reason Bolt Escape has been nerfed multiple times. PvP.

Ic, did negate work in PVP like ads negate in PVE? (even if you break out of it, if you ulti after breaking out, your ulti is dispelled)?

Yes, it removed all ground effects, stunned and made it so that you could not cast any new ground effects inside the area. It was just too much in PVP, still annoying that ZOS don't just take the plunge and balance some skills differently PVE/PVP.

TehMagnus · February 2015

Fayaburn wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Well the only utility you actually need is Nova tbh...

Give Sorcs the DK chains and a Negate with the 30% damage reduction buff for group and I bet they will be much more desired even with lesser DPS.

But, NBs allready have 30% damage reduction & do more DPS

. And as for the chains, it got nerfed and is unreliable now

Jokes aside, it would have been interesting if ZOS had designed end game content where instead of killing stuff fast there where actually times where, if you don't put a negate or a Veil, then the whole party wipes or has their DPS lowered or some kind of mechanic that forces groups to be polyvalent, sadly it's not the case and nothing they do will fix it. Fact is all you need nowadays is pretty much Nova, one or two veils and rest DPS...

Maybe for next trials.

TehMagnus · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

Gotta say I didn't understand the nerf to Negate.

PvP.

It's the same reason Bolt Escape has been nerfed multiple times. PvP.

Ic, did negate work in PVP like ads negate in PVE? (even if you break out of it, if you ulti after breaking out, your ulti is dispelled)?

Yes, it removed all ground effects, stunned and made it so that you could not cast any new ground effects inside the area. It was just too much in PVP, still annoying that ZOS don't just take the plunge and balance some skills differently PVE/PVP.

So behavior is different from PVP to what ads do in PVE, in PVE if you break out of negate, your ulti will get dispelled but you can use abilities (at least it's the case for Battlemage's negates). They could just have tweaked the Negate in PVP so that you can break out of it & use ultimates & abilities

.

pppontus · February 2015

TehMagnus wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

Gotta say I didn't understand the nerf to Negate.

PvP.

It's the same reason Bolt Escape has been nerfed multiple times. PvP.

Ic, did negate work in PVP like ads negate in PVE? (even if you break out of it, if you ulti after breaking out, your ulti is dispelled)?

Yes, it removed all ground effects, stunned and made it so that you could not cast any new ground effects inside the area. It was just too much in PVP, still annoying that ZOS don't just take the plunge and balance some skills differently PVE/PVP.

So behavior is different from PVP to what ads do in PVE, in PVE if you break out of negate, your ulti will get dispelled but you can use abilities (at least it's the case for Battlemage's negates). They could just have tweaked the Negate in PVP so that you can break out of it & use ultimates & abilities .

Well, you can use abilities if you break out but not ground based ones. Most groups wipe inside negates because no Healing Springs (or at least I think that's how it works??).

Fayaburn · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Fayaburn wrote: »

Gotta say I didn't understand the nerf to Negate.

PvP.

It's the same reason Bolt Escape has been nerfed multiple times. PvP.

Ic, did negate work in PVP like ads negate in PVE? (even if you break out of it, if you ulti after breaking out, your ulti is dispelled)?

Yes, it removed all ground effects, stunned and made it so that you could not cast any new ground effects inside the area. It was just too much in PVP, still annoying that ZOS don't just take the plunge and balance some skills differently PVE/PVP.

So behavior is different from PVP to what ads do in PVE, in PVE if you break out of negate, your ulti will get dispelled but you can use abilities (at least it's the case for Battlemage's negates). They could just have tweaked the Negate in PVP so that you can break out of it & use ultimates & abilities .

Well, you can use abilities if you break out but not ground based ones. Most groups wipe inside negates because no Healing Springs (or at least I think that's how it works??).

That's it. Before nerf, Negate would silence players under it and dispel any ennemy ground effect. Players could always CC-break it as silence is a hard-CC and cast spells from under the dome. However the ground effect dispelling occurred once per second for the full duration of the negate.

Flaminir · February 2015

Fayaburn wrote: »

That's it. Before nerf, Negate would silence players under it and dispel any ennemy ground effect. Players could always CC-break it as silence is a hard-CC and cast spells from under the dome. However the ground effect dispelling occurred once per second for the full duration of the negate.

Perhaps if a few more people had realised that then it would never have been nerfed in the first place.

There is def an argument to say that it was another case of the skill wasn't that OP... its just people hadn't learnt how to counter it a la the original bolt escape nerfs.

Ezareth · February 2015

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Pretty disappointing, although reducing the number of toggles would have an effect on sorc magicka dps if done right.

Personally I still think a buff to the standard damage of mages wrath to put it in line with or slightly higher than crushing shock is the easiest fix.

Exactly. Considering Mages wrath is going to cost anywhere from 20-25% more relatively come 1.6 I think at very least it should get an equivalent damage boost.

angelyn · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Please continue to report any issues you may come across, and thank you for all your support and feedback!

TLDR FEEDBACK
@ZOS_GinaBruno I'm really glad that someone is looking into the feedback that has been provided and that your response is so positive

.Perhaps I am a crap player, which is what I took from the Q&A response below

, but if a class is so tough to play that 90% of people will never master the skill required in order to play that class, they will quit the class or quit the game. I am just an average Joe PVE sorc here- I'm not sure how much of your playerbase is accounted for by people like me.

What I took from that Q&A response was that ZOS thought anyone complaining about sorcs was either a crap player or would always complain no matter what. Perhaps I am a sensitive flower, but this did not make me feel like a valued customer.What I took from a recent livestream, was that the people redesigning all of my skills seemed to not know about some basic elements like how the class pets interacted with boss mechanics and suggesting workarounds for healers when they have a pet sorc in group. This didn't inspire confidence in the future of sorcerers. I sincerely hope that future feedback from any players whether they are crap like me

, or skilled like others will at least be investigated for validity, instead of being writtin off in the first instance, and if not considered, then at least responded to in a polite manner. In addition, perhaps improved communication between the various teams will mean that no one gets the impression that one team works in isolation from another. I'm sure no one meant to truly offend anyone, and perhaps some information just wasn't passed onto the team or something. In the mean time I'm adjusting my armour,my weapons, my playstyle and my skills in preparation for U6.

REST OF POST
Recent QA response:
Question:"With the non stop thread on the forums regarding sorcs are now being underpowered, are there any plans to buff up the class?I know that you touched on surge a bit ago but is there any other aspect of the sorcerer you can touch on?"

Answer: "Sure, so, um, ok. How to say this ah as politicaly as possible?Ah I think that there are always going to be people who say x class is underpowered, and they will have video proof showing you why x,y class is underpowered,um and then you are gonna have somebody else who comes in and says, ""Now watch me play"",now,ah, so we have been watching this very carefully. I've seen some great videos,ah showing a guy doing some 1 vs 1 duelling on a sorc and nobody can touch him, and then I have definitely seen the complaints where people say ""yes, but that has to be the pet build"", and then some other people saying, ""no, it doesn't"" and then they have video proof.

And then I've seen good video proof of other things, so I think what we're doing and the philosophy we're taking, is we're taking this ability by ability, and really looking at ahh, what they have from ability by ability, and then after we do that, then we start to look at some of the cohesive builds and see what we have,um I certainly know that each class,um or if you're playing a class, um each time, you'll think that your class tends to be underpowered, and I'm sorry I know that sounds a bit insulting, I don't mean it to be, um, I know there's some good analysis out there and I mean that sincerely, I really do, I know there's good analysis out there, but there's" Technical difficulties and sound cuts out. Continued answer "And that's all I have to say about that".

Livestream
I was looking forward to the sorc changes in to be mentinoned in the live stream, but as I've said in this comment, a few things said left me bewildered:

angelyn wrote: »

There are 3-4 things about the livestream that make it hard to place my sorc trust in you, but I still do:
1. Not seeming to know the name of the skill that you had nerfed previously (Crushing Shock)
2.Not seeming to know that the force pulse morph isn't working as you described (no 10% on the morph), even though this is all over the forums which apparently are read often.
3. Not seeming to know how boss mechanics/heals interacting with Sorc Pets is a problem in PVE
4. This is only conjecture, but the suspicion that testing balance changes is only done in PVP or single target PVE situations.

Nihil · February 2015

2 quick cents about the FoTM builds. FoTM is also very dependent on the current endgame scenerios. Coming from Tera we saw a great shift in the best healer class when Shandra Manya (spelling?) came out. Before hand Clerics were the best pve healer as the end game dungeon required more cleansing and you couldn't crit the boss, after then new dungeons were released mystics became the best as you didn't need burst heals as you died if you messed up.

In ESO we see something similar (in regards to DK's and Sorcs) sorcs (from what I have seen and tested) have the best range dps capabilities (but lacks the variety of melee range skills, which should do more damage), while DK's have the best melee dps capabilities (but lack much support when it comes to range) this means that if there is ever a trial / dungeon that literally punished or reduces drastically the ability to be in melee range DK's will take the largest hit compared to all other classes.

We are also seeing a lot of comparison to magicka sorcs and Stamina builds. I have seen very little comparison to magicka dps builds (what I have seen showed DK's at 10k with out ultimate, and NB's at about 9 - 10k, haven't seen much for templars). The comparison to Stamina builds might show a discrepancy of specific melee abilities (ie WB) and the balance would be more towards those specific skills, rather then a rebalancing of the class in general.

I am glad to hear that they are looking into the healing/stamina/tank side of Sorcs, as this did seem to be where we needed the most balancing to keep us inline with other classes.

Grao · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your patience. We do have a status to share regarding Sorcerers as they currently stand.

First, there is one outstanding issue with Crystal Fragments not proccing when you cast Bolt Escape; we are aiming to fix this by time Update 6 is live. While we aren’t planning to implement any additional changes before Update 6 goes live, we will be keeping a very close eye on how Sorcerers – and all classes – perform in a Live environment, and will make tweaks as necessary. With Update 6 just around the corner, we don’t want to make any drastic changes that could affect gameplay in a negative way.

That said, we do have plans to make the Sorcerer more effective as a stamina DPS, tank, and healer. The first change we already made towards that direction is allowing the Clannfear to heal the caster based on their maximum health when the Clannfear is killed or dismissed. In a future update, we will be looking at giving the Sorcerer unique ways to fulfill the healer role, or deal damage with stamina-based abilities. Some specific issues we will also be evaluating are the number of toggled abilities on the class, Surge healing cooldown, and tweaks to make Dark Exchange more useful.

Please continue to report any issues you may come across, and thank you for all your support and feedback!

Hi @ZOS_GinaBruno, back from my forced absence from the forums, I've been dying to answer you in this topic.

Are we (sorcerers) to understand you are releasing our class on 1.6 knowing there are issues and without a real plan to fix those problems? Saying that Zenimax will be watching is rather pointless, we all know that with the release of Tamriel Unlimited, all you and Devs will be watching is the console development and beta testing.

Sorcerers are apparently Tamriel Unlimited "nightblade case". Will our abilities stay bugged for several months just as Nightblades upon the rushed release of ESO? How many months your "In a future update" represents?

EDIT: By the way, nice to see all the Sorcerer questions ignored during today's ESO Live! It fills me with tremendous hope for the future of the class.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO · March 2015

I guess they are ignoring it, because fixing the Sorc issues would probably require a total overhaul to keep the PvP/PvE Power Balance.

Sorcs are nice for solo stuff, nice for PvP... but for raids they are not a "must have".

Run a raid without a sorc and loads of DK dps, some badass Templar-Healers, you won't really miss a sorc... probably not even really need a Negate.
Now that Negate has been nerfed there is even less reason to waste a raid-spot on a weak class that has nothing to offer that deals heavy damage or reduces heavy damage. (by weak I am referring to the raid/group value each class has to offer)

I hope they are going to offer a "change class" thingy at their Crown Shop, so people don't have to delete their main-chars that have most of the achievements and other unlocked stuff...

GilGalad · March 2015

Edited the first post as reaction to the 1.6.5 patch notes.
I hope there will be some changes in the near future, until then sorcs gonna have a bad time.

Started to level a DK 5 days ago. It's just a joke when you see how it's abilities synergize and how powerful DKs are. He is VR1 now.

Exstazik · March 2015

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Edited the first post as reaction to the 1.6.5 patch notes.
I hope there will be some changes in the near future, until then sorcs gonna have a bad time.

Started to level a DK 5 days ago. It's just a joke when you see how it's abilities synergize and how powerful DKs are. He is VR1 now.

Started templar.If someone want my negate for trials /w with fair price