In Defense of Zenimax

one_eye

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

And from the looks of the majority of your responses from the wall O text, the majority don't care for your brown nosing.

Damn! Nice comeback! You're right. People don't care about my brown nosing. That's why this post has over 160 comments and growing, because OBVIOUSLY people aren't interested in this discussion.

I response in a smartass way to comments that are clearly, well, stupid. And you, sir, make the grade!

What exactly is the discussion? Oh yeah, its an apologetics campaign for this game. I'm sorry man but even being told there is a fix is on the way my confidence in this game is shaken.

I'm questioning whether or not I can justify a monthly fee for this game atm. My better judgement is telling me to cancel my account and wait for people like you to pay them for finishing this game to an acceptable level.

More and more I've held off on new game releases for months and months in order to see if they sink or swim. It seems every time I don't hold off I regret it.

Hey, I'm all for that. Personally, I can afford $15 per month (actually less since I subscribed in blocks), so I'm not really sweating the fee.

And actually, and I'm being totally serious, you're probably the most right of all of us. It's like when a new iPhone comes out - everyone wants it the day it launches. Then the next day, every tech blog is reporting all the bugs and glitches, and all the iPhone users are ticked off.

Waiting a while after game launch is smart. Start playing once the biggest bugs have been fixed.

I appreciate that you can at least see where I'm coming from. I can afford to maintain many accounts if I wanted. Its the principle of it all that irks me. Its that when you do that, you lower the bar on standards for the entire video game industry. The new video game business model seems to be "pay me now and I might entertain you later."

To me its a dishonest business practice that has grown to be accepted by many. Charge what you have to charge for a game, but at least be honest about it. If they needed 100-150 dollars for this game to be released in an acceptable state I would have been OK with that. What I'm not OK with is a video game maker releasing a product in a poor state while expecting to collect the difference of what they needed to actually complete it over the course several months. Something like that usually ruins my first impression of a game and taints the experience all together no matter how much better they make it.

Believe me, I see where everyone on here is coming from. I posted this because I, and this just me personally, think that it's still just a little too soon to completely condemn ESO and Zenimax. Again, I agree there are problems, some much bigger than others, but I just have that "hang in there a bit longer" mentality, and wish others would embrace that before threatening to cancel accounts and having this insanely reactionary way of doing things.

Vlaxitov

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

And from the looks of the majority of your responses from the wall O text, the majority don't care for your brown nosing.

Damn! Nice comeback! You're right. People don't care about my brown nosing. That's why this post has over 160 comments and growing, because OBVIOUSLY people aren't interested in this discussion.

I response in a smartass way to comments that are clearly, well, stupid. And you, sir, make the grade!

What exactly is the discussion? Oh yeah, its an apologetics campaign for this game. I'm sorry man but even being told there is a fix is on the way my confidence in this game is shaken.

I'm questioning whether or not I can justify a monthly fee for this game atm. My better judgement is telling me to cancel my account and wait for people like you to pay them for finishing this game to an acceptable level.

More and more I've held off on new game releases for months and months in order to see if they sink or swim. It seems every time I don't hold off I regret it.

Hey, I'm all for that. Personally, I can afford $15 per month (actually less since I subscribed in blocks), so I'm not really sweating the fee.

And actually, and I'm being totally serious, you're probably the most right of all of us. It's like when a new iPhone comes out - everyone wants it the day it launches. Then the next day, every tech blog is reporting all the bugs and glitches, and all the iPhone users are ticked off.

Waiting a while after game launch is smart. Start playing once the biggest bugs have been fixed.

I appreciate that you can at least see where I'm coming from. I can afford to maintain many accounts if I wanted. Its the principle of it all that irks me. Its that when you do that, you lower the bar on standards for the entire video game industry. The new video game business model seems to be "pay me now and I might entertain you later."

To me its a dishonest business practice that has grown to be accepted by many. Charge what you have to charge for a game, but at least be honest about it. If they needed 100-150 dollars for this game to be released in an acceptable state I would have been OK with that. What I'm not OK with is a video game maker releasing a product in a poor state while expecting to collect the difference of what they needed to actually complete it over the course several months. Something like that usually ruins my first impression of a game and taints the experience all together no matter how much better they make it.

Believe me, I see where everyone on here is coming from. I posted this because I, and this just me personally, think that it's still just a little too soon to completely condemn ESO and Zenimax. Again, I agree there are problems, some much bigger than others, but I just have that "hang in there a bit longer" mentality, and wish others would embrace that before threatening to cancel accounts and having this insanely reactionary way of doing things.

You might call it a "hang in there" mentality but I'd closer liken it to battered wife syndrome. Come on now man, we've both likely seen this scenario play out time and time again over many many games. I'm not threatening to cancel my account, I'm actually rather disappointed that I'm already at the point of considering it. Its elder scrolls, it currently sucks bad, and that's a big bummer.

kirnmalidus

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

And from the looks of the majority of your responses from the wall O text, the majority don't care for your brown nosing.

Damn! Nice comeback! You're right. People don't care about my brown nosing. That's why this post has over 160 comments and growing, because OBVIOUSLY people aren't interested in this discussion.

I response in a smartass way to comments that are clearly, well, stupid. And you, sir, make the grade!

What exactly is the discussion? Oh yeah, its an apologetics campaign for this game. I'm sorry man but even being told there is a fix is on the way my confidence in this game is shaken.

I'm questioning whether or not I can justify a monthly fee for this game atm. My better judgement is telling me to cancel my account and wait for people like you to pay them for finishing this game to an acceptable level.

More and more I've held off on new game releases for months and months in order to see if they sink or swim. It seems every time I don't hold off I regret it.

Hey, I'm all for that. Personally, I can afford $15 per month (actually less since I subscribed in blocks), so I'm not really sweating the fee.

And actually, and I'm being totally serious, you're probably the most right of all of us. It's like when a new iPhone comes out - everyone wants it the day it launches. Then the next day, every tech blog is reporting all the bugs and glitches, and all the iPhone users are ticked off.

Waiting a while after game launch is smart. Start playing once the biggest bugs have been fixed.

I appreciate that you can at least see where I'm coming from. I can afford to maintain many accounts if I wanted. Its the principle of it all that irks me. Its that when you do that, you lower the bar on standards for the entire video game industry. The new video game business model seems to be "pay me now and I might entertain you later."

To me its a dishonest business practice that has grown to be accepted by many. Charge what you have to charge for a game, but at least be honest about it. If they needed 100-150 dollars for this game to be released in an acceptable state I would have been OK with that. What I'm not OK with is a video game maker releasing a product in a poor state while expecting to collect the difference of what they needed to actually complete it over the course several months. Something like that usually ruins my first impression of a game and taints the experience all together no matter how much better they make it.

Believe me, I see where everyone on here is coming from. I posted this because I, and this just me personally, think that it's still just a little too soon to completely condemn ESO and Zenimax. Again, I agree there are problems, some much bigger than others, but I just have that "hang in there a bit longer" mentality, and wish others would embrace that before threatening to cancel accounts and having this insanely reactionary way of doing things.

You might call it a "hang in there" mentality but I'd closer liken it to battered wife syndrome. Come on now man, we've both likely seen this scenario play out time and time again over many many games. I'm not threatening to cancel my account, I'm actually rather disappointed that I'm already at the point of considering it. Its elder scrolls, it currently sucks bad, and that's a big bummer.

Yeah I'm not condemning anything and I'm still playing. I'm just concerned with the lack of quality control on updates, and what that means for the future.

one_eye

Looking through the comments, I still can't get over this issue of the monthly fee, bugs and glitches aside.

For you guys who continue to gripe about the fee, you're right. It's not my place to tell you what is a justifiable expense. That's going to be different for everyone.

But when I mentioned value - well let me put that into perspective.

Since the release, I've played about 8 days total, and change. So that's what, almost 200 hours. Most of that time has been fun. Sure, there have been times where I've flipped out because of a hard boss or glitch or something. But overall, not bad. And again, let's go with the $14.99 per month fee.

A movie theater ticket, at least here where I live, can be about $10. That's for a couple hours. A nice meal at a nice restaurant with friends? That can be over $40 for what, 2-3 hours? A concert ticket, maybe 4 hours total - ticket is usually between $25 - $50 depending on band and venue.

Hundreds of hours of entertainment for $15 a month. I call that value.

one_eye

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

And from the looks of the majority of your responses from the wall O text, the majority don't care for your brown nosing.

Damn! Nice comeback! You're right. People don't care about my brown nosing. That's why this post has over 160 comments and growing, because OBVIOUSLY people aren't interested in this discussion.

I response in a smartass way to comments that are clearly, well, stupid. And you, sir, make the grade!

What exactly is the discussion? Oh yeah, its an apologetics campaign for this game. I'm sorry man but even being told there is a fix is on the way my confidence in this game is shaken.

I'm questioning whether or not I can justify a monthly fee for this game atm. My better judgement is telling me to cancel my account and wait for people like you to pay them for finishing this game to an acceptable level.

More and more I've held off on new game releases for months and months in order to see if they sink or swim. It seems every time I don't hold off I regret it.

Hey, I'm all for that. Personally, I can afford $15 per month (actually less since I subscribed in blocks), so I'm not really sweating the fee.

And actually, and I'm being totally serious, you're probably the most right of all of us. It's like when a new iPhone comes out - everyone wants it the day it launches. Then the next day, every tech blog is reporting all the bugs and glitches, and all the iPhone users are ticked off.

Waiting a while after game launch is smart. Start playing once the biggest bugs have been fixed.

I appreciate that you can at least see where I'm coming from. I can afford to maintain many accounts if I wanted. Its the principle of it all that irks me. Its that when you do that, you lower the bar on standards for the entire video game industry. The new video game business model seems to be "pay me now and I might entertain you later."

To me its a dishonest business practice that has grown to be accepted by many. Charge what you have to charge for a game, but at least be honest about it. If they needed 100-150 dollars for this game to be released in an acceptable state I would have been OK with that. What I'm not OK with is a video game maker releasing a product in a poor state while expecting to collect the difference of what they needed to actually complete it over the course several months. Something like that usually ruins my first impression of a game and taints the experience all together no matter how much better they make it.

Believe me, I see where everyone on here is coming from. I posted this because I, and this just me personally, think that it's still just a little too soon to completely condemn ESO and Zenimax. Again, I agree there are problems, some much bigger than others, but I just have that "hang in there a bit longer" mentality, and wish others would embrace that before threatening to cancel accounts and having this insanely reactionary way of doing things.

You might call it a "hang in there" mentality but I'd closer liken it to battered wife syndrome. Come on now man, we've both likely seen this scenario play out time and time again over many many games. I'm not threatening to cancel my account, I'm actually rather disappointed that I'm already at the point of considering it. Its elder scrolls, it currently sucks bad, and that's a big bummer.

Battered wife syndrome? You freaking idiot. I know you're making an analogy, but your comparing glitches in a video game to battered wife syndrome? This is why I can't get enough of these comments.

Vlaxitov

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

And from the looks of the majority of your responses from the wall O text, the majority don't care for your brown nosing.

Damn! Nice comeback! You're right. People don't care about my brown nosing. That's why this post has over 160 comments and growing, because OBVIOUSLY people aren't interested in this discussion.

I response in a smartass way to comments that are clearly, well, stupid. And you, sir, make the grade!

What exactly is the discussion? Oh yeah, its an apologetics campaign for this game. I'm sorry man but even being told there is a fix is on the way my confidence in this game is shaken.

I'm questioning whether or not I can justify a monthly fee for this game atm. My better judgement is telling me to cancel my account and wait for people like you to pay them for finishing this game to an acceptable level.

More and more I've held off on new game releases for months and months in order to see if they sink or swim. It seems every time I don't hold off I regret it.

Hey, I'm all for that. Personally, I can afford $15 per month (actually less since I subscribed in blocks), so I'm not really sweating the fee.

And actually, and I'm being totally serious, you're probably the most right of all of us. It's like when a new iPhone comes out - everyone wants it the day it launches. Then the next day, every tech blog is reporting all the bugs and glitches, and all the iPhone users are ticked off.

Waiting a while after game launch is smart. Start playing once the biggest bugs have been fixed.

I appreciate that you can at least see where I'm coming from. I can afford to maintain many accounts if I wanted. Its the principle of it all that irks me. Its that when you do that, you lower the bar on standards for the entire video game industry. The new video game business model seems to be "pay me now and I might entertain you later."

To me its a dishonest business practice that has grown to be accepted by many. Charge what you have to charge for a game, but at least be honest about it. If they needed 100-150 dollars for this game to be released in an acceptable state I would have been OK with that. What I'm not OK with is a video game maker releasing a product in a poor state while expecting to collect the difference of what they needed to actually complete it over the course several months. Something like that usually ruins my first impression of a game and taints the experience all together no matter how much better they make it.

Believe me, I see where everyone on here is coming from. I posted this because I, and this just me personally, think that it's still just a little too soon to completely condemn ESO and Zenimax. Again, I agree there are problems, some much bigger than others, but I just have that "hang in there a bit longer" mentality, and wish others would embrace that before threatening to cancel accounts and having this insanely reactionary way of doing things.

You might call it a "hang in there" mentality but I'd closer liken it to battered wife syndrome. Come on now man, we've both likely seen this scenario play out time and time again over many many games. I'm not threatening to cancel my account, I'm actually rather disappointed that I'm already at the point of considering it. Its elder scrolls, it currently sucks bad, and that's a big bummer.

Battered wife syndrome? You freaking idiot. I know you're making an analogy, but your comparing glitches in a video game to battered wife syndrome? This is why I can't get enough of these comments.

Yes battered wife syndrome and thanks for taking the high road and calling me names directly. Battered wife syndrome in the sense that you've likely seen this scenario play out to disaster over and over again but you're still basically telling yourself "its going to be different this time." Its a great analogy, fits like a glove.

Vlaxitov

one_eye wrote: »

A movie theater ticket, at least here where I live, can be about $10. That's for a couple hours. A nice meal at a nice restaurant with friends? That can be over $40 for what, 2-3 hours? A concert ticket, maybe 4 hours total - ticket is usually between $25 - $50 depending on band and venue.

Hundreds of hours of entertainment for $15 a month. I call that value.

Maybe you look at it this way but when I spend 100 dollars or more on an evening in such a manner, the woman I'm chasing IS the entertainment, not the meal or movie. Compare apples to apples next time.

kirnmalidus

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

And from the looks of the majority of your responses from the wall O text, the majority don't care for your brown nosing.

Damn! Nice comeback! You're right. People don't care about my brown nosing. That's why this post has over 160 comments and growing, because OBVIOUSLY people aren't interested in this discussion.

I response in a smartass way to comments that are clearly, well, stupid. And you, sir, make the grade!

What exactly is the discussion? Oh yeah, its an apologetics campaign for this game. I'm sorry man but even being told there is a fix is on the way my confidence in this game is shaken.

I'm questioning whether or not I can justify a monthly fee for this game atm. My better judgement is telling me to cancel my account and wait for people like you to pay them for finishing this game to an acceptable level.

More and more I've held off on new game releases for months and months in order to see if they sink or swim. It seems every time I don't hold off I regret it.

Hey, I'm all for that. Personally, I can afford $15 per month (actually less since I subscribed in blocks), so I'm not really sweating the fee.

And actually, and I'm being totally serious, you're probably the most right of all of us. It's like when a new iPhone comes out - everyone wants it the day it launches. Then the next day, every tech blog is reporting all the bugs and glitches, and all the iPhone users are ticked off.

Waiting a while after game launch is smart. Start playing once the biggest bugs have been fixed.

I appreciate that you can at least see where I'm coming from. I can afford to maintain many accounts if I wanted. Its the principle of it all that irks me. Its that when you do that, you lower the bar on standards for the entire video game industry. The new video game business model seems to be "pay me now and I might entertain you later."

To me its a dishonest business practice that has grown to be accepted by many. Charge what you have to charge for a game, but at least be honest about it. If they needed 100-150 dollars for this game to be released in an acceptable state I would have been OK with that. What I'm not OK with is a video game maker releasing a product in a poor state while expecting to collect the difference of what they needed to actually complete it over the course several months. Something like that usually ruins my first impression of a game and taints the experience all together no matter how much better they make it.

Believe me, I see where everyone on here is coming from. I posted this because I, and this just me personally, think that it's still just a little too soon to completely condemn ESO and Zenimax. Again, I agree there are problems, some much bigger than others, but I just have that "hang in there a bit longer" mentality, and wish others would embrace that before threatening to cancel accounts and having this insanely reactionary way of doing things.

You might call it a "hang in there" mentality but I'd closer liken it to battered wife syndrome. Come on now man, we've both likely seen this scenario play out time and time again over many many games. I'm not threatening to cancel my account, I'm actually rather disappointed that I'm already at the point of considering it. Its elder scrolls, it currently sucks bad, and that's a big bummer.

Battered wife syndrome? You freaking idiot. I know you're making an analogy, but your comparing glitches in a video game to battered wife syndrome? This is why I can't get enough of these comments.

Yes battered wife syndrome and thanks for taking the high road and calling me names directly. Battered wife syndrome in the sense that you've likely seen this scenario play out to disaster over and over again but you're still basically telling yourself "its going to be different this time." Its a great analogy, fits like a glove.

Yeah he's talking about your behavior here, not the bugs.

penguinlaraub17_ESO

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

And from the looks of the majority of your responses from the wall O text, the majority don't care for your brown nosing.

Damn! Nice comeback! You're right. People don't care about my brown nosing. That's why this post has over 160 comments and growing, because OBVIOUSLY people aren't interested in this discussion.

I response in a smartass way to comments that are clearly, well, stupid. And you, sir, make the grade!

What exactly is the discussion? Oh yeah, its an apologetics campaign for this game. I'm sorry man but even being told there is a fix is on the way my confidence in this game is shaken.

I'm questioning whether or not I can justify a monthly fee for this game atm. My better judgement is telling me to cancel my account and wait for people like you to pay them for finishing this game to an acceptable level.

More and more I've held off on new game releases for months and months in order to see if they sink or swim. It seems every time I don't hold off I regret it.

Hey, I'm all for that. Personally, I can afford $15 per month (actually less since I subscribed in blocks), so I'm not really sweating the fee.

And actually, and I'm being totally serious, you're probably the most right of all of us. It's like when a new iPhone comes out - everyone wants it the day it launches. Then the next day, every tech blog is reporting all the bugs and glitches, and all the iPhone users are ticked off.

Waiting a while after game launch is smart. Start playing once the biggest bugs have been fixed.

I appreciate that you can at least see where I'm coming from. I can afford to maintain many accounts if I wanted. Its the principle of it all that irks me. Its that when you do that, you lower the bar on standards for the entire video game industry. The new video game business model seems to be "pay me now and I might entertain you later."

To me its a dishonest business practice that has grown to be accepted by many. Charge what you have to charge for a game, but at least be honest about it. If they needed 100-150 dollars for this game to be released in an acceptable state I would have been OK with that. What I'm not OK with is a video game maker releasing a product in a poor state while expecting to collect the difference of what they needed to actually complete it over the course several months. Something like that usually ruins my first impression of a game and taints the experience all together no matter how much better they make it.

Believe me, I see where everyone on here is coming from. I posted this because I, and this just me personally, think that it's still just a little too soon to completely condemn ESO and Zenimax. Again, I agree there are problems, some much bigger than others, but I just have that "hang in there a bit longer" mentality, and wish others would embrace that before threatening to cancel accounts and having this insanely reactionary way of doing things.

You might call it a "hang in there" mentality but I'd closer liken it to battered wife syndrome. Come on now man, we've both likely seen this scenario play out time and time again over many many games. I'm not threatening to cancel my account, I'm actually rather disappointed that I'm already at the point of considering it. Its elder scrolls, it currently sucks bad, and that's a big bummer.

Battered wife syndrome? You freaking idiot. I know you're making an analogy, but your comparing glitches in a video game to battered wife syndrome? This is why I can't get enough of these comments.

Yes battered wife syndrome and thanks for taking the high road and calling me names directly. Battered wife syndrome in the sense that you've likely seen this scenario play out to disaster over and over again but you're still basically telling yourself "its going to be different this time." Its a great analogy, fits like a glove.

Don't waste your text on this ZOS shill.

Cogo

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

Yes, it was defenetly needed because most people really do not know how these games work and how they have evolved. Especially how its managed, planned, expanded, Fixed, balanced. .

Cogo.....can you please provide your references and which MMO company you have worked for in the past that allows you to make this statement? I worked for the biggest online entertainment company from 2001 to 2009 so I have a clue, and the clue is you have NO CLUE wtf you are talking about, even though you think you do.

I have not worked for an MMO company or any of their partners.
However, I have 20 years experience in the IT datacenter/B2B business, going back as long as early 90ies. I am ITL3 certified and worked with Datacenters for clients like Volvo, Gothenburg city, Swedish police and several other high end companies that required more then a few servers......

I have consulted and assisted setup of the MMO "Project Entropias" Datacenter which needed to provide the "Service" the game Project entropia.
They where the first out in the market with a free to play game, but you transfered real money into game dollars, which you could buy items from vendors or players. Also it needed to be online 24/7. Because like most companies, even SECOND this game Service was not used by the players, they lost money. Downtime like hours did not exist other then a LONG very public statement that they game will go through maintainance For X hours on Y date.

The problem the company faced, which WAS called Mindark, but later got sold to an Lyxenburg bank group. This may sound odd, but the problem the game faced was not only game related but security around transfering money, since you could transfer money OUT as well as in. How can you do this safely? And this was YEARS before the explotion of online casinos and online poker.

The first solution was a single datacenter in Gothenburg, Sweden. Mainly built by Dimention, which was Sun Microsystems biggest reseller in early 2000. Sun Microsystem was for many years the leading manufactorer of both all hardware and the Unix system Solaris, which Oracle later bought up when Sun was going dooooown. The solution worked since everything in the datacenter could break, switch, upgrade etc, on the fly. This system was Suns biggest computer which pertty much is buildt in different parts but works as a unit that can transfer "seamless" "services" across different hardware.
The single point of failure, was powercut, internet break, or if someone blow up the place. So even here, a solution was looked after that could garantee 100% uptime.

Project entropia was not the best successful game but kept attracting players who both wanted to play, but also wanted to earn money. I still think the game hold the world record in selling an virtual Island for 800 000 $. I believe this was somewhere around 2002-2003. I am uncertain about the time. Check the world guiness book of record, cause it made it there.

For years I was their prime Account Manager who with both our own and partners skills in these complex matters how to intergrate a bank with an MMO. The game was a space type MMO if anyone cares. A bad version of Anarchy Online.

The main problem for this game was not just balance, gameplay, expansions, which they had to do quite a lot, since this type of player don't like to do the same thing twice, very much. There was just one race. Human, which you could make look however you wanted. But the idea was to go out in the world and earn money by killing enemies and other things.

The solution we came up with, was to pick a spot where we could place not one, but 3 datacenters. The cost for this as possible because at this point, Windows had catched up and the company had many Linux techs who built the base for the softwhere, which had to work on both linux and windows.

We found a great company in holland that "rented" out Datacenter space, support, cooling, security and power needed for their customers. The 3 datacenters where more or less equal in their setup and was placed at this vendors Datacenter area in Holland with only 100 meters or so in between.
The risk was accepteble since the company had solid internet solutions from several ISPs, so 2 could fail and the game still had access to the net.

It was a risk to have all 3 in the same area, but at the time, the internet structure and "Big switches" called "trunks" where not as spread out as today.

The Datacenter company actually had armed personell, which was secure enough.

These 3 datacenters was equally built and from what I know, one of the biggest "homemade", because any vendor did not build it. We simply provided the technology, support and knowlage to help the client build these 3 datacenters.

Why 3? because if 1 failed for any reason, the game didn't fail. More lag.
If 2 failed at the same time, and when we talk failed, its a complete burn down, flooding or anything else that completely shuts down the systems.

3 was decided enough and to this date, the game still has their hardware base in Holland, their HQ and management, support, gm staff and developers in Sweden. I imagine the game is one of the smaller MMO still operating with players.

This was my hands on reference how these games are built, managed and what problems they keep facing.

The small fact that I pretty much played all the big ones for years and know about patches, new features, class balancing. Pvp or no pvp, since MUDs in early 90ies. Ok, just in case you ask. Everquest, Anarchy online. EVE, Some Daoc, Conan, EQ 2, Vanguard and of course WoW which I started on day 1. when they opened on the only RP server called Argent dawn, which still is there today and I think is one if not the biggest RP WoW server.

I dont know everything, but I have experience from games, inside games, how they are built, what problems they keep fighting with, etc.

Oh, I was the project manager for the swedish City goverment main datacenter "project 2010" which in short terms meant trash their currtent system, which was in one place, and buy 2 complete new datacenters that worked together with a space of 4-5km between. Apart from the vast design of each datacenter, Ciscos solution for data "split" which in easy terms means there was an smartbox that "know" which datacenter had the biggest stress atm and could switch data between the two buildings.

Now, the real challenge wasnt hardware, even pricing, but to make 2 datacenters share over 1500 software, where if I remember correctly had 13 different databases in. You just dont stop a database action and send it off to the other site.

As much planning in building the base was in how to solve all these software which is called "services" between them, without loosing connection, data or speed. This solution was the base for the citys parkingsystem, payroll, city design, webpages by goverment, medical records, you name it. All kinds of services a city needs to function as a goverment.

We wun the project early 2009, I was the lead project manager, and we "finshed" and turned off their old datacenter about 1.5 year after the deal was struck. Its still in place today and I know consultants that assist their own IT personell.

You may wonder what the fek this have to do with MMO. Having lots of services, software and muuuuuch more complex and speed demanding then this citys solution is what every MMO battles with today. There are a lot of solutions, but which works the best for just that service and of course the cost.

If you actually read this to somewhere "out" me as someone who has no clue what they are talking about when it comes to provide these huge services and how the games themselves acted when I played them, and I play almost daily.

Believe me or not, but I might not know everything, but I have "a clue"

---Cogo (I can not reveal my name out of business reasons)

Thorntongue

one_eye wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

Your post was already long as balls. Was there any reason to add all the space UNDER your post?

srryz my post wuz so long, dooood. gr8 comment!!!!

Right back at you boy.

FireKat

I completely agree! The game only launched a couple months ago - I do think that they launched it a little too early, but hey, I got to play sooner! I've never had huge game-breaking issues when it comes to bugs, all the of the bugs I've encountered were fixed either the next day or the next patch; it wasn't a big deal at all. IT JUST LAUNCHED of course there will be bugs! I don't understand why people rage so much and try to give the devs such a hard time.

Patch 1.1.2 is the first time i've had issues. I can't play more than 10 minutes without the game crashing and taking my PC with it, and during those precious 10 minutes of game time i'm usually getting about 4fps. Completely unplayable for me at the moment, but i'm still not raging. Mistakes happen, bugs happen, and they will have it fixed in a couple weeks at most. Not a big deal I'm still very excited to get to play with all the new changes that were made, when i'm able to.

I think ZOS has done an GREAT job so far at making the game enjoyable. People need to realize that getting angry about every bug is not going to make the fix come any faster - it will just make you more miserable about it. Sit back, be patient and supportive and it will get done! If you can't handle dealing with bugs, then you probably should not have bought and subscribed to a game that JUST came out.

kirnmalidus

Cogo wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

Yes, it was defenetly needed because most people really do not know how these games work and how they have evolved. Especially how its managed, planned, expanded, Fixed, balanced. .

Cogo.....can you please provide your references and which MMO company you have worked for in the past that allows you to make this statement? I worked for the biggest online entertainment company from 2001 to 2009 so I have a clue, and the clue is you have NO CLUE wtf you are talking about, even though you think you do.

I have not worked for an MMO company or any of their partners.
However, I have 20 years experience in the IT datacenter/B2B business, going back as long as early 90ies. I am ITL3 certified and worked with Datacenters for clients like Volvo, Gothenburg city, Swedish police and several other high end companies that required more then a few servers......

I have consulted and assisted setup of the MMO "Project Entropias" Datacenter which needed to provide the "Service" the game Project entropia.
They where the first out in the market with a free to play game, but you transfered real money into game dollars, which you could buy items from vendors or players. Also it needed to be online 24/7. Because like most companies, even SECOND this game Service was not used by the players, they lost money. Downtime like hours did not exist other then a LONG very public statement that they game will go through maintainance For X hours on Y date.

The problem the company faced, which WAS called Mindark, but later got sold to an Lyxenburg bank group. This may sound odd, but the problem the game faced was not only game related but security around transfering money, since you could transfer money OUT as well as in. How can you do this safely? And this was YEARS before the explotion of online casinos and online poker.

The first solution was a single datacenter in Gothenburg, Sweden. Mainly built by Dimention, which was Sun Microsystems biggest reseller in early 2000. Sun Microsystem was for many years the leading manufactorer of both all hardware and the Unix system Solaris, which Oracle later bought up when Sun was going dooooown. The solution worked since everything in the datacenter could break, switch, upgrade etc, on the fly. This system was Suns biggest computer which pertty much is buildt in different parts but works as a unit that can transfer "seamless" "services" across different hardware.
The single point of failure, was powercut, internet break, or if someone blow up the place. So even here, a solution was looked after that could garantee 100% uptime.

Project entropia was not the best successful game but kept attracting players who both wanted to play, but also wanted to earn money. I still think the game hold the world record in selling an virtual Island for 800 000 $. I believe this was somewhere around 2002-2003. I am uncertain about the time. Check the world guiness book of record, cause it made it there.

For years I was their prime Account Manager who with both our own and partners skills in these complex matters how to intergrate a bank with an MMO. The game was a space type MMO if anyone cares. A bad version of Anarchy Online.

The main problem for this game was not just balance, gameplay, expansions, which they had to do quite a lot, since this type of player don't like to do the same thing twice, very much. There was just one race. Human, which you could make look however you wanted. But the idea was to go out in the world and earn money by killing enemies and other things.

The solution we came up with, was to pick a spot where we could place not one, but 3 datacenters. The cost for this as possible because at this point, Windows had catched up and the company had many Linux techs who built the base for the softwhere, which had to work on both linux and windows.

We found a great company in holland that "rented" out Datacenter space, support, cooling, security and power needed for their customers. The 3 datacenters where more or less equal in their setup and was placed at this vendors Datacenter area in Holland with only 100 meters or so in between.
The risk was accepteble since the company had solid internet solutions from several ISPs, so 2 could fail and the game still had access to the net.

It was a risk to have all 3 in the same area, but at the time, the internet structure and "Big switches" called "trunks" where not as spread out as today.

The Datacenter company actually had armed personell, which was secure enough.

These 3 datacenters was equally built and from what I know, one of the biggest "homemade", because any vendor did not build it. We simply provided the technology, support and knowlage to help the client build these 3 datacenters.

Why 3? because if 1 failed for any reason, the game didn't fail. More lag.
If 2 failed at the same time, and when we talk failed, its a complete burn down, flooding or anything else that completely shuts down the systems.

3 was decided enough and to this date, the game still has their hardware base in Holland, their HQ and management, support, gm staff and developers in Sweden. I imagine the game is one of the smaller MMO still operating with players.

This was my hands on reference how these games are built, managed and what problems they keep facing.

The small fact that I pretty much played all the big ones for years and know about patches, new features, class balancing. Pvp or no pvp, since MUDs in early 90ies. Ok, just in case you ask. Everquest, Anarchy online. EVE, Some Daoc, Conan, EQ 2, Vanguard and of course WoW which I started on day 1. when they opened on the only RP server called Argent dawn, which still is there today and I think is one if not the biggest RP WoW server.

I dont know everything, but I have experience from games, inside games, how they are built, what problems they keep fighting with, etc.

Oh, I was the project manager for the swedish City goverment main datacenter "project 2010" which in short terms meant trash their currtent system, which was in one place, and buy 2 complete new datacenters that worked together with a space of 4-5km between. Apart from the vast design of each datacenter, Ciscos solution for data "split" which in easy terms means there was an smartbox that "know" which datacenter had the biggest stress atm and could switch data between the two buildings.

Now, the real challenge wasnt hardware, even pricing, but to make 2 datacenters share over 1500 software, where if I remember correctly had 13 different databases in. You just dont stop a database action and send it off to the other site.

As much planning in building the base was in how to solve all these software which is called "services" between them, without loosing connection, data or speed. This solution was the base for the citys parkingsystem, payroll, city design, webpages by goverment, medical records, you name it. All kinds of services a city needs to function as a goverment.

We wun the project early 2009, I was the lead project manager, and we "finshed" and turned off their old datacenter about 1.5 year after the deal was struck. Its still in place today and I know consultants that assist their own IT personell.

You may wonder what the fek this have to do with MMO. Having lots of services, software and muuuuuch more complex and speed demanding then this citys solution is what every MMO battles with today. There are a lot of solutions, but which works the best for just that service and of course the cost.

If you actually read this to somewhere "out" me as someone who has no clue what they are talking about when it comes to provide these huge services and how the games themselves acted when I played them, and I play almost daily.

Believe me or not, but I might not know everything, but I have "a clue"

---Cogo (I can not reveal my name out of business reasons)

ESO runs on amazons cloud, a far more complex co-located cloud hosting system than anything you describe.

I actually host projects on AWS and know how it specifically works.

What's your point?

Blackwidow

That was a very long OP just to say, "Stop QQing".

Cogo

I know what cloud, vmware, citrix is buddy, but I never claimed I as the best of it.

I know I shouldn't answer a person who so bluntly just looking to be rude, but his question if I had any clue about how MMOs worked between 2001 - 2009, then I just had to answer. Sure, I am not a coder, but in other terms he was saying I had no clue what banking was, when I actually worked building and running a bank (A symbol because saying IT means...yeah you know anything and nothing)

I do recall that I was in the misunderstanding thinking I know all about MMO since I played Everquest for years before working with this MMO company. But I got to see the inside. The tools, the FEW people who actually worked. And how much it was depended on uptime, different software working together and back then, the big villain, databases. How the HELL did you get a specific file from a database without restoring a big backup. I think EMC had a very expensive solution for that, but dont recall if it was pre 2000 or after.

Virtual environments is not the problem today, cause there are so many good solutions. Down to pricing and service I think. I simply answered him politely that I do have a clue how these games where run/managed/worked and what effect the player had, since I was one in many games, all those years he asked for. And believe it or not, even more active on forums and asked every stupid question in the book why they cant just turn on the servers........over the years you do meet people who can explain how thing works, and especially my years long experience with both hardware and B2B. Hell...not all companies has figured out how to send their invoices to their clients systems automaticly yet.

I would be surprised and a bit happy, if the dude even reads or understands half of it.

I do feel a bit of a know it all, because I DO know this part of the IT world that he was asking for. And as a daily player, I know the effects, long term actions from different games, resoulting in different games, and not talking about the type of game.

I put the little bugger in his place. Feel free to rip apart anything I explained what my experience was and how it makes me know anything about MMOs from 2001 - 2009, which was his statement that I did not know ;-)

theweakminded

So basically...OP says:
Stop complaining that a game is hard when they make it difficult on an unfun level. We are the player, we are supposed to be happy with the content. If we are not, we complain (its called a business model).

Stop complaining that it is exceptionally hard to find rare items that are setup so you need them (recipes, not motifs).

Stop expecting the game company to cater to players. I can agree to that is some context, but, again, it is the job of a company to please the people paying them. Otherwise, shocker, we stop paying them and move on.

OP is just trying to stop the whiners, yeathere are alot, but a large part of the complains are valid and warranted. NB are still full of bugs, unlisted changes to Templars, memory leaks, random rollbacks, patching issues (on a setup that already is total bs to install. 31gb game the block install without 60gb free), major graphical bugs, and that is just naming the popular issues.

I payed for a game, I payed for a sub, and I have a right to complain about issues I have with the game. With how the system of "speaking with your money" works, customers giving a company a chance to change by making complaints is far more respectful than those who just quit the game.

kirnmalidus

Cogo wrote: »

I know what cloud, vmware, citrix is buddy, but I never claimed I as the best of it.

I know I shouldn't answer a person who so bluntly just looking to be rude, but his question if I had any clue about how MMOs worked between 2001 - 2009, then I just had to answer. Sure, I am not a coder, but in other terms he was saying I had no clue what banking was, when I actually worked building and running a bank (A symbol because saying IT means...yeah you know anything and nothing)

Virtual environments is not the problem today, cause there are so many good solutions. Down to pricing and service I think. I simply answered him politely that I do have a clue how these games where run/managed/worked and what effect the player had, since I was one in many games, all those years he asked for. And believe it or not, even more active on forums and asked every stupid question in the book why they cant just turn on the servers........over the years you do meet people who can explain how thing works, and especially my years long experience with both hardware and B2B. Hell...not all companies has figured out how to send their invoices to their clients systems automaticly yet.

I would be surprised and a bit happy, if the dude even reads or understands half of it.

I do feel a bit of a know it all, because I DO know this part of the IT world that he was asking for. And as a daily player, I know the effects, long term actions from different games, resoulting in different games, and not talking about the type of game.

I put the little bugger in his place. Feel free to rip apart anything I explained what my experience was and how it makes me know anything about MMOs from 2001 - 2009, which was his statement that I did not know ;-)

Ok that's cool. Wasn't sure what your point was and must've missed the comment you were responding too.

As far as I'm concerned this isn't about what other MMOs did or didn't do. Thx issue here is the lack of quality control in this MMO.

Atreidus

Did the te just started to putting some more fire into the oil?
Or is it on me?
It is already written that this op stuff was an awfull mistake(cause of an awfull *** at both main comunitys and they didnt liked it). Fix/rollback to normal) shall be in an half to 1 day from now live.(no server restart)

FunkyBudda

Seriously, how can anyone defend Zenimax after this train wreck of a patch?

WIth this patch Zenimax introduced memory leaks (confirmed in another thread) and new bugs, it's clearly subscribers are being used as QA / game testers while they take our money. This is unacceptable.

Blackwidow

FunkyBudda wrote: »

Seriously, how can anyone defend Zenimax after this train wreck of a patch?

You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a fanboi.

That really should not be a saying....

Chirru

Cogo,
This is not what or what not players miss or miss not.
The original title of the post was 'In defense of Zenimax'.

You are defending the Game Creators and think they did a reasonable job,
others think Zenimax can do better and there is much improvement.

To me both views are valid because they are personal opinions.
However, reading your posts it appears to me (sorry if i get the wrong impression) that your posts are more about stoking your own ego than about the actual topic and factual information.

Look at what you wrote; "Heh, another one who didnt read anything about the game. Was it a gift? You buy it thinking its a new WoW?" What is this? A taunt? A slur? An attempt of sarcasm?

You certainly can do better if you try.

Atreidus

I am an fan to but for real:
It isnt my 1st good starting MMO which got wrecked by some kind of waterheads in the background. I dont like to see that Zenimax is sharing the "close the game" or the "get free to play then close" strategy of them. This waterheads are thinking that we are dumb sheeps.
Well. 1st step is made to get rid of wrong strategics.

And i am realy feeling with the poor workers over there which have to fix that mistakes or having to read our (bad)Tickets day by day.

There was an huger problem at other kind of companies. That guys went bancrupt.

Cogo

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Pretty much this.

The sub cost is not high , that does not mean i intend to burn this money every month for nothing.

If the game is not worth it , then i wont give it a single cent.

This game is at best , a good game. It is far from being "REALLY good" and for sure when it comes to being a MMO , it is just plain bad.

While i agree , the ES franchise is great , probably what keeps tons of their subs alone is this.

Hey Noxy! You keep following me. I know it! you like me! How about those rings of mara? I decided to make a night blade before the buffs!

poodlemasterb16_ESO

They put it back like it was for VR hardness. Happy now? I really get a lot of amusement from threads like this.

one_eye

Vlaxitov wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

A movie theater ticket, at least here where I live, can be about $10. That's for a couple hours. A nice meal at a nice restaurant with friends? That can be over $40 for what, 2-3 hours? A concert ticket, maybe 4 hours total - ticket is usually between $25 - $50 depending on band and venue.

Hundreds of hours of entertainment for $15 a month. I call that value.

Maybe you look at it this way but when I spend 100 dollars or more on an evening in such a manner, the woman I'm chasing IS the entertainment, not the meal or movie. Compare apples to apples next time.

I'm talking about entertainment, in whatever form, you dunce.

Atreidus

As of 9PM EDT on 5/23, we have completed a hotfix on both megaservers that reverted the difficulty of Veteran Rank content (50+ and 50++) to what it was prior to patch 1.1.2. Thank you for your patience as we fixed the issue.

Not happy but satisfyed and happy.

kirnmalidus

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

They put it back like it was for VR hardness. Happy now? I really get a lot of amusement from threads like this.

For the millionth time this isn't about one bug. It's about a patch with that many bugs passing QA.

one_eye

Vlaxitov wrote: »

Yes battered wife syndrome and thanks for taking the high road and calling me names directly. Battered wife syndrome in the sense that you've likely seen this scenario play out to disaster over and over again but you're still basically telling yourself "its going to be different this time." Its a great analogy, fits like a glove.

Well, then quit playing! There's also Candy Crush. That's pretty popular.

methjester

Cogo wrote: »

I know what cloud, vmware, citrix is buddy, but I never claimed I as the best of it.

I know I shouldn't answer a person who so bluntly just looking to be rude, but his question if I had any clue about how MMOs worked between 2001 - 2009, then I just had to answer. Sure, I am not a coder, but in other terms he was saying I had no clue what banking was, when I actually worked building and running a bank (A symbol because saying IT means...yeah you know anything and nothing)

I do recall that I was in the misunderstanding thinking I know all about MMO since I played Everquest for years before working with this MMO company. But I got to see the inside. The tools, the FEW people who actually worked. And how much it was depended on uptime, different software working together and back then, the big villain, databases. How the HELL did you get a specific file from a database without restoring a big backup. I think EMC had a very expensive solution for that, but dont recall if it was pre 2000 or after.

Virtual environments is not the problem today, cause there are so many good solutions. Down to pricing and service I think. I simply answered him politely that I do have a clue how these games where run/managed/worked and what effect the player had, since I was one in many games, all those years he asked for. And believe it or not, even more active on forums and asked every stupid question in the book why they cant just turn on the servers........over the years you do meet people who can explain how thing works, and especially my years long experience with both hardware and B2B. Hell...not all companies has figured out how to send their invoices to their clients systems automaticly yet.

I would be surprised and a bit happy, if the dude even reads or understands half of it.

I do feel a bit of a know it all, because I DO know this part of the IT world that he was asking for. And as a daily player, I know the effects, long term actions from different games, resoulting in different games, and not talking about the type of game.

I put the little bugger in his place. Feel free to rip apart anything I explained what my experience was and how it makes me know anything about MMOs from 2001 - 2009, which was his statement that I did not know ;-)

Nobody reads more than 3-5 lines on message boards. If you can't say what you need to say in a few sentences... 5 paragraphs is a waste on your end.

Say what you will.

ttomaxneb18_ESO

one_eye wrote: »

Looking through the comments, I still can't get over this issue of the monthly fee, bugs and glitches aside.

For you guys who continue to gripe about the fee, you're right. It's not my place to tell you what is a justifiable expense. That's going to be different for everyone.

But when I mentioned value - well let me put that into perspective.

Since the release, I've played about 8 days total, and change. So that's what, almost 200 hours. Most of that time has been fun. Sure, there have been times where I've flipped out because of a hard boss or glitch or something. But overall, not bad. And again, let's go with the $14.99 per month fee.

A movie theater ticket, at least here where I live, can be about $10. That's for a couple hours. A nice meal at a nice restaurant with friends? That can be over $40 for what, 2-3 hours? A concert ticket, maybe 4 hours total - ticket is usually between $25 - $50 depending on band and venue.

Hundreds of hours of entertainment for $15 a month. I call that value.

Ohh yes,and we have free electric,and pc and internet...lol mate wake up...that not 15bucks a month...even a game cost more...