In Defense of Zenimax

one_eye

I see the outrage over the issues created by the 1.1.2 patch - people demanding that they be allowed to revert the game to before the patch, people threatening to cancel their subscriptions, and the general bashing of ESO and Zenimax.

I whole heartedly agree in certain points. Yeah, the Nightblades are getting screwed. Zone mobs are a hell of a lot harder (in certain zones it seems).

But as a whole, I defend Zenimax, and here's why.

First let me point out who a lot of these complaints are coming from: veterans. I'm a VR5 and have been playing the game since the moment it was released on early access (plus a few prior betas). I try and get in at least 2 hours on weekdays, and maybe 10 hours or so on the weekends. But then there are those players who spend every waking moment on ESO. They want to level as quickly as possible. They want to have all the best of everything as quickly as possible. They essentially want to "have their cake and eat it to" in every aspect of the game. They want to be king of the mountain so they can impress the other players. These guys can be some of the whiniest cry babies in the world.

I see a trend in their complaints. Often times it's not that the game is so messed up, it's that Zenimax made a change that they just simply don't like. For example, there are a few veteran zone dungeons where, in the past, the bosses were bugged. You could pretty easily kill them if you stood in the right spot or followed a certain procedure. But Zenimax has since fixed some of these bugs, so these bosses are no longer easier to kill. And I've seen A LOT of high level players complain about that.

"Why is so hard to kill this boss now?"

BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HARD!

And how about recipes and motifs? Everyone whining that they can't find the best of stuff.

BECAUSE CERTAIN ITEMS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE RARE!

Everyone knows the bots and gold farmers are a big issue, just like any MMO. Historically speaking, there's no way to ever be 100% spam/bot/farmer free.

Zenimax, like other MMO game developers, are trying hard to combat this issue - an issue which, by their own admission, is a HUGE one - much bigger than perhaps they anticipated.

And players constantly complain about these farmers and spammers, but I've seen my fair share of players happily purchase items from these guys. Tempering alloy for 1500 gold? Pretty tempting. Why go out and do things yourself when you can just buy it from a farmer. So just like any economy: supply and demand. As long as "legit" players will buy these items, there will be no shortage of farmers/bots.

And seriously, do you really think that every patch is going to be perfect? When you started playing ESO, did you think the game would run perfectly forever?

Of course not. So why is everyone so surprised that there are bumps and glitches and bugs in the game?

Yeah, it sucks right now, in the moment. But do you really believe that the developers and game designers at Zenimax come in to work every morning and say "We love pissing off the players of our game! HA HA HA!"

Don't be ridiculous. They do pay attention to feedback and bugs. They do pay attention to trends on the forums. They are listening to the players as best they can. But they can't address every single issue in one fix. They can't respond to every single player's individual wants and desires. Zenimax WILL FIX THE PROBLEMS as fast as possible.

So please, stop acting like, just because you play ESO a lot, that you're entitled to having the game EXACTLY the way you want it. In reality, we're all getting a LOT of entertainment at a really, REALLY fair price.

And on that note...

There is nothing more pathetic or lame than you players who take to the forums and threaten to cancel you subscription. Grow up, kiddies.

Why do you think Zenimax responds with "Thanks for playing!" and then closes those threads? Because they don't want you as a player, and neither do people like me, for that matter. You're not helping or contributing. You're just babies throwing hissy fits.

By all means, quit. Cancel your subscription. Go find something else to do with your life, because apparently your life is so empty and so void of any purpose that you're threatening to quit playing a video game.

You feel like you're getting ripped off?

HA!

If you guys are really getting so worked up over $0.50 per day to play ESO ($14.99 per 30 days), then I think you have much, much bigger problems. If spending $0.50 is a real problem for you, you probably shouldn't be spending any money whatsoever on video games.

If you're the type of player who plans on going the distance with ESO, which so far is a REALLY good MMO from a really good franchise, then accept things for what they are. If it's so frustrating, take a break for a few days. The game isn't going anywhere.

In the long run, ESO is only going to get better and better. Sometimes it's "2 steps forward one step back." It's just the nature of an online game with a worldwide audience playing at all hours of the day.

[UDPATE BASED ON COMMENTS]

I like ESO and I'm trying to see things from Zenimax's point of view, but people think that I'm either a) a fanboy - apparently not welcome on the forum, b) a paid PR person embedded by Zenimax to drum up positivity for ESO (that's my favorite), or c) just an idiot.

I am a fanboy. I like ESO and I'm going to keep paying and playing, because I believe the game will only improve as a whole. I have fun playing, most of the time. Except fighting trolls. I freaking hate Trolls and I can't really solo them.

I wish Zenimax did pay me. That'd be SWEEEEET!

Sure. I'll be an idiot.

steveb16_ESO46

one_eye wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous. They do pay attention to feedback and bugs. They do pay attention to trends on the forums. They are listening to the players as best they can. But they can't address every single issue in one fix.

At the moment i think a lot of us would settle for them not breaking more stuff with each 'fix'.

Slash8915

Your post was already long as balls. Was there any reason to add all the space UNDER your post?

one_eye

Slash8915 wrote: »

Your post was already long as balls. Was there any reason to add all the space UNDER your post?

srryz my post wuz so long, dooood. gr8 comment!!!!

one_eye

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous. They do pay attention to feedback and bugs. They do pay attention to trends on the forums. They are listening to the players as best they can. But they can't address every single issue in one fix.

At the moment i think a lot of us would settle for them not breaking more stuff with each 'fix'.

I know nothing about game development. I do web and app development, and the same thing happens in my world. You take a complex system - something breaks - you fix it, but ended up creating another problem unintentionally. I agree it is frustrating, but it's only temporary.

hamon

you started out reasonable but ended up in a rant blaming the customers for being irate at the product.. and exposing yourself as just another forum appologist.

i dont expect perfection when they release big patches and am willing to cut them some slack.. however that being said this patch is so full of glaring bugs and mistakes it screams ineptitude.
i dont think anyone was seriously saying they messed it up deliberately.

but you need to expect folk to go nuts when they have put hundreds of hours of their valuable time into a game and character then it seems like they ripped out some of the aspects of said game/character that they find fun.

to call anyone who reacts like that simply a whiner speaks volumes to me about you. It screams a lack of empathy and understanding possibly immaturity in terms of developing these human attributes.

tanthil

I read about 7 lines of your rant post and somehow you defend zenimax for breaking so many dam things in this game by blaming people for playing too much... as if some how playing too much created all these bugs/unplayable content.

Nope, zenimax created them through pure incompetence.

Unless you are in fact stating that these people who play to much are in fact playing this game on zenimaxs computer that they use to create these patches therefor actually giving zenimax way less time on their own computers to test content before releasing? idk is that what you are saying? because that is all i can see that makes it plausibly our fault

I know that sounds stupid but im just going with the overall tone of this thread i guess

Gwarok

#ThreeMonthRule

ipkonfigcub18_ESO

I really dislike fanboy threads in game forums...

one_eye

hamon wrote: »

you started out reasonable but ended up in a rant blaming the customers for being irate at the product.. and exposing yourself as just another forum appologist.

i dont expect perfection when they release big patches and am willing to cut them some slack.. however that being said this patch is so full of glaring bugs and mistakes it screams ineptitude.
i dont think anyone was seriously saying they messed it up deliberately.

but you need to expect folk to go nuts when they have put hundreds of hours of their valuable time into a game and character then it seems like they ripped out some of the aspects of said game/character that they find fun.

to call anyone who reacts like that simply a whiner speaks volumes to me about you. It screams a lack of empathy and understanding possibly immaturity in terms of developing these human attributes.

I sincerely have empathy for players who's gaming experience is affected by these patch issues.

But did it ever occur to you that for every 1 player that isn't satisfied with ESO, there maybe 50 that are perfectly happy with the way the game is going in general?

Obviously I'm just speculating on numbers, but maybe the game isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.

And honestly, I don't know what a forum apologist is. Am I a sucker because I'm defending the makers of the game? If you say so.

one_eye

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

I really dislike fanboy threads in game forums...

Oh my bad. I didn't realize there was a rule that the forum is only for people wanting to *** and complain. Sorry!

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

I really dislike fanboy threads in game forums...

I Dislike rage/hate threads, but what's your point.

In almost all situations so far where players have identified issues/concerns, they have responded. They've actually been very active with their responses.

This kind of thing is to be expected in any major content patch. Gone are the days that things just work out of the box. Get used to it, find the problems, report them and participate in the creative process that is the game industry.

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO

hamon wrote: »

you started out reasonable but ended up in a rant blaming the customers for being irate at the product.. and exposing yourself as just another forum appologist.

i dont expect perfection when they release big patches and am willing to cut them some slack.. however that being said this patch is so full of glaring bugs and mistakes it screams ineptitude.
i dont think anyone was seriously saying they messed it up deliberately.

but you need to expect folk to go nuts when they have put hundreds of hours of their valuable time into a game and character then it seems like they ripped out some of the aspects of said game/character that they find fun.

to call anyone who reacts like that simply a whiner speaks volumes to me about you. It screams a lack of empathy and understanding possibly immaturity in terms of developing these human attributes.

+1 agreed

one_eye

Funny that someone is calling me a "fanboy." Umm, aren't we all fanboys? We pay a monthly fee and spend dozens/hundreds of hours playing a video game.

tanthil

one_eye wrote: »

But did it ever occur to you that for every 1 player that isn't satisfied with ESO, there maybe 50 that are perfectly happy with the way the game is going in general?

.

Did it ever occur to you that for every 1 pissed player that takes to the forum there are maybe 100 more that don't post anything

Did it ever occur to you that people pull numbers out of their asses to make points?

one_eye

tanthil wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

But did it ever occur to you that for every 1 player that isn't satisfied with ESO, there maybe 50 that are perfectly happy with the way the game is going in general?

.

Did it ever occur to you that for every 1 pissed player that takes to the forum there are maybe 100 more that don't post anything

Did it ever occur to you that people pull numbers out of their asses to make points?

Again, as I said, I'm just speculating. I don't the numbers any more than anyone other player. You called me out! CONGRATZ!

one_eye

It seems people just really, really hate ESO. So, again, why are you playing? Why are you responding to a forum discussion? Why are you one forum? I'm getting attacked for saying I like ESO and actually understand, or try to, the point of view of Zenimax.

roflcopter

tanthil wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

But did it ever occur to you that for every 1 player that isn't satisfied with ESO, there maybe 50 that are perfectly happy with the way the game is going in general?

.

Did it ever occur to you that for every 1 pissed player that takes to the forum there are maybe 100 more that don't post anything

Did it ever occur to you that people pull numbers out of their asses to make points?

I think you missed the point of his post on that. As well as the part of him knowingly exaggerating numbers.

His point was maybe the game doesn't come as as bad to a good number of players as one may think and that people may be over reacting.

Here is his full quote

But did it ever occur to you that for every 1 player that isn't satisfied with ESO, there maybe 50 that are perfectly happy with the way the game is going in general?

Obviously I'm just speculating on numbers, but maybe the game isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.

And honestly, I don't know what a forum apologist is. Am I a sucker because I'm defending the makers of the game? If you say so.

tanthil

one_eye wrote: »

as I said, I'm just speculating. !

No, you did not say that

one_eye

tanthil wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

as I said, I'm just speculating. !

No, you did not say that

Oh snap! You caught me again. DOUBLE CONGRATZ!!!

roflcopter

tanthil wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

as I said, I'm just speculating. !

No, you did not say that

re read his comment.

Slash8915

The main issue is, this is no longer "launch". This was a big patch that ZoS supposedly spent a lot of time on. After the trainwreck that was "official launch", you'd think they would have learned not to release things until they are fully tested.

This would probably be acceptable if ESO were a F2P or even B2P game. But it's not. We made the initial investment of purchasing the game, then we have to pay an additional charge on a monthly basis. We expect a AAA game to be run by a AAA team.

tanthil

wow

one_eye

Slash8915 wrote: »

The main issue is, this is no longer "launch". This was a big patch that ZoS supposedly spent a lot of time on. After the trainwreck that was "official launch", you'd think they would have learned not to release things until they are fully tested.

This would probably be acceptable if ESO were a F2P or even B2P game. But it's not. We made the initial investment of purchasing the game, then we have to pay an additional charge on a monthly basis. We expect a AAA game to be run by a AAA team.

That's a valid point. But it's still been less than 2 months. I've heard stories about major World of Warcraft issues that were going on years after that game came out. I think we differ on our expectations, is all.

tanthil

Slash8915 wrote: »

The main issue is, this is no longer "launch". This was a big patch that ZoS supposedly spent a lot of time on. After the trainwreck that was "official launch", you'd think they would have learned not to release things until they are fully tested.

This would probably be acceptable if ESO were a F2P or even B2P game. But it's not. We made the initial investment of purchasing the game, then we have to pay an additional charge on a monthly basis. We expect a AAA game to be run by a AAA team.

exactly you put a $79 price tag on your game and a $15 monthly fee you are now right at the top of the market for pricing.

But they are currently sitting dam near the bottom of the market for quality.

Reykice

Do they hire PR firms to pretend they are "happy customers" who see no fault in the product now? I used to work at a corporation doing that... not yet 100% sure about you but come on your points are just not true...

The people complaining are the ones who expected to play the game not to be a Beta Tester 2 months after launch.

Also, they KNEW about the VR NPC buff and various other bugs last night after they updated the US Mega Server.... and what did they do after all that feedback? They went and updated the EU one.. to make sure they are both equally broken. They should have just held the patch until Monday when fixed would have been(hopefully) ready... but no, they went ahead with an update that had many known critical bugs.

So don`t be surprised people are mad.... its 2 months after launch and the game is still broken.

How many other Subscription MMO`s do you know where the most used Forum Section is the Customer Support one or the most viewed topics are bug related ? There are none as they are either F2P or shut down....

Slash8915

one_eye wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

The main issue is, this is no longer "launch". This was a big patch that ZoS supposedly spent a lot of time on. After the trainwreck that was "official launch", you'd think they would have learned not to release things until they are fully tested.

This would probably be acceptable if ESO were a F2P or even B2P game. But it's not. We made the initial investment of purchasing the game, then we have to pay an additional charge on a monthly basis. We expect a AAA game to be run by a AAA team.

That's a valid point. But it's still been less than 2 months. I've heard stories about major World of Warcraft issues that were going on years after that game came out. I think we differ on our expectations, is all.

Keep in mind, WoW came out in what? 2004? This is 2014.

penguinlaraub17_ESO

OP whats up with the brown nosing? Trying to land a job?

Sorry, but that wall of text does not excuse this fail of a patch.

Did they even bother to roll this out on the PTS before they gave it the green light? I would have to say "*** NO!". But I would be wrong in stating that since I know some of the people in PTS and everyone has told me these bugs have been KNOWN & REPORTED, but ZoS ignored them and gave it the green light before these bugs where addressed.

Aoifesan

tanthil wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

But did it ever occur to you that for every 1 player that isn't satisfied with ESO, there maybe 50 that are perfectly happy with the way the game is going in general?

.

Did it ever occur to you that for every 1 pissed player that takes to the forum there are maybe 100 more that don't post anything

Did it ever occur to you that people pull numbers out of their asses to make points?

The old adage is that for every angry letter you receive, there are 1000 more that were so pissed off, they couldn't be bothered to write to you about it.

tanthil

Slash8915 wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

The main issue is, this is no longer "launch". This was a big patch that ZoS supposedly spent a lot of time on. After the trainwreck that was "official launch", you'd think they would have learned not to release things until they are fully tested.

This would probably be acceptable if ESO were a F2P or even B2P game. But it's not. We made the initial investment of purchasing the game, then we have to pay an additional charge on a monthly basis. We expect a AAA game to be run by a AAA team.

That's a valid point. But it's still been less than 2 months. I've heard stories about major World of Warcraft issues that were going on years after that game came out. I think we differ on our expectations, is all.

Keep in mind, WoW came out in what? 2004? This is 2014.

Yes when wow came out this sort of game was a fairly new market, there was no talent pool to pull devs from, they were learning as they created.

roflcopter

Slash8915 wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

The main issue is, this is no longer "launch". This was a big patch that ZoS supposedly spent a lot of time on. After the trainwreck that was "official launch", you'd think they would have learned not to release things until they are fully tested.

This would probably be acceptable if ESO were a F2P or even B2P game. But it's not. We made the initial investment of purchasing the game, then we have to pay an additional charge on a monthly basis. We expect a AAA game to be run by a AAA team.

That's a valid point. But it's still been less than 2 months. I've heard stories about major World of Warcraft issues that were going on years after that game came out. I think we differ on our expectations, is all.

Keep in mind, WoW came out in what? 2004? This is 2014.

I can remember old Nintendo / Atari / Sega games that are more refined than today's buggy console games. Every console game now needs patches / updates / bugs and fixes. Nothing in 2014 is ever a finished product where back in the 80s it was what it was, finished and polished.

Funny to think about things in the 80s being more polished and finished than they are now.

whats your point?