In Defense of Zenimax

Gedalya

one_eye

penguinlaraub17_ESO wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

penguinlaraub17_ESO wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Funny that someone is calling me a "fanboy." Umm, aren't we all fanboys? We pay a monthly fee and spend dozens/hundreds of hours playing a video game.

Nope not a fanboy of ZoS since I don't pay a monthly fee or plan on starting. I was suckered in because of the "Elder Scrolls" in the title like many people since I am a big fan of Bethesda's TES series which is made by a different team. This game is like Diablo 3, living of the fame of another teams success.

Ha! You say you were "suckered" into playing ESO. Well, sir, then you're not a fanboy. You're just a sucker, who, despite not liking ESO or paying to play it, are on the ESO forum. That's cool, I guess.

Yup. I'm a sucker that is going to enjoy seeing this game crash and burn right out the gate.

Then, my friend, it's time to look at a change. If you're world revolves around your desire and pleasure of watching ESO become a failure, then it's time to reevaluate your life and career.

This is a video game. That's all. Just a game to play for fun.

roflcopter

Evergnar wrote: »

roflcopter wrote: »

I can remember old Nintendo / Atari / Sega games that are more refined than today's buggy console games. Every console game now needs patches / updates / bugs and fixes. Nothing in 2014 is ever a finished product where back in the 80s it was what it was, finished and polished.

Funny to think about things in the 80s being more polished and finished than they are now.

Miss those days. I keep blowing in this ESO cartridge but it just doesn't seem to be fixing it.

ROFLCOPTERLMAOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

Still have the nerdtendo hooked up and do the same thing from time to time.

Try taking a q-tip with rubbing alcohol and gently applying to the inside. Should help.

Pallmor

If it's any consolation, this sort of patch drama has been present on every online game I've ever played, going back long before MMO's even existed (back to the MUD days).

kirnmalidus

one_eye wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous. They do pay attention to feedback and bugs. They do pay attention to trends on the forums. They are listening to the players as best they can. But they can't address every single issue in one fix.

At the moment i think a lot of us would settle for them not breaking more stuff with each 'fix'.

I know nothing about game development. I do web and app development, and the same thing happens in my world. You take a complex system - something breaks - you fix it, but ended up creating another problem unintentionally. I agree it is frustrating, but it's only temporary.

I lead a team that builds websites as well. If my team pushed an update that broke this much stuff on a client's website I would be discussing firing the people responsible for testing the updates and I would expect the client to fire us as their agency for breaking their site.

Bromburak

Those haters that think Zenimax are producing bugs on purpose have no clue of game development and you can ignore them anyway.

Elgin

one_eye wrote: »

First let me point out who a lot of these complaints are coming from: veterans. I'm a VR5 and have been playing the game since the moment it was released on early access (plus a few prior betas). I try and get in at least 2 hours on weekdays, and maybe 10 hours or so on the weekends. But then there are those players who spend every waking moment on ESO. They want to level as quickly as possible. They want to have all the best of everything as quickly as possible. They essentially want to "have their cake and eat it to" in every aspect of the game. They want to be king of the mountain so they can impress the other players. These guys can be some of the whiniest cry babies in the world.

I want to be able to play the game, I'd like to think I'm the best at something in our group of people I play with .... not being able to play the game at all makes this hard to achieve.

one_eye wrote: »

I see a trend in their complaints. Often times it's not that the game is so messed up, it's that Zenimax made a change that they just simply don't like.

Your right, I don't like the change they made, changing it so I can't log in

one_eye wrote: »

Everyone knows the bots and gold farmers are a big issue, just like any MMO. Historically speaking, there's no way to ever be 100% spam/bot/farmer free.

Zenimax, like other MMO game developers, are trying hard to combat this issue - an issue which, by their own admission, is a HUGE one - much bigger than perhaps they anticipated.

By their own admission, is a huge one - why dont' they employ just ONE person to full time ban goldsellers in chat alone, he, or she would get ban enough accounts to pay for the wage they'd get paid so it would cost Zenimax nothing.

one_eye wrote: »

And seriously, do you really think that every patch is going to be perfect? When you started playing ESO, did you think the game would run perfectly forever?

No I do not, but one patch to be perfect would be nice, maybe they have had a perfect patch, but it's overshadowed by all the more than imperfect ones they've pushed out too early

one_eye wrote: »

So please, stop acting like, just because you play ESO a lot, that you're entitled to having the game

Well I pay for the game so I think i'm entitled to be able to play the game.

one_eye wrote: »

we're all getting a LOT of entertainment at a really, REALLY fair price.

Please don't speak for others, I'm not getting any entertainment for a game I am paying for and can't even log into

one_eye wrote: »

In the long run, ESO is only going to get better and better. Sometimes it's "2 steps forward one step back."

I agree ESO will get better, but accepting a step back when you are paying for a service is not a good.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

Pallmor wrote: »

If it's any consolation, this sort of patch drama has been present on every online game I've ever played, going back long before MMO's even existed (back to the MUD days).

Can't agree more. Whats funny is, the same parallels during patches can be drawn up with real world scenarios.

Take Thailand for example. You get a mass of people together, and try to force one ideology down their throat and ask them all to like it, your going to get some pushback.

People generally aren't cool with change.

SirJesto

kirnmalidus wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous. They do pay attention to feedback and bugs. They do pay attention to trends on the forums. They are listening to the players as best they can. But they can't address every single issue in one fix.

At the moment i think a lot of us would settle for them not breaking more stuff with each 'fix'.

I know nothing about game development. I do web and app development, and the same thing happens in my world. You take a complex system - something breaks - you fix it, but ended up creating another problem unintentionally. I agree it is frustrating, but it's only temporary.

I lead a team that builds websites as well. If my team pushed an update that broke this much stuff on a client's website I would be discussing firing the people responsible for testing the updates and I would expect the client to fire us as their agency for breaking their site.

Yeah because your website is just as complicated as this game and it's servers and infrastructure....nice comparison bud.

Bruixa

I have cancelled my suscription since i had a problem that does not allow me to play (because of new patch)and nobody answer so i cannot solve. YOu ask a lot for patience but this game is not worth the price form far (was it really tested? dificult to believe) i feel cheated you wasted all my patience in doing each day the worse. I cannot play, after weeks of having uncountable issues, bugs and elusive answers i give up. when i firstly installed it i was so excited and i thought this will be best game in the world... and you have make disappear all that ilusion and turn it into a true nightmare. No defense for all time i have expent while they are making maintenance in daytime hours just for eu server and all those things they did not preview (do they really care, none of them thought ppl would be not happy at all?), all bugs such as quest, world bosses etc impossible to do since they are not or does not count as done, all those pasive skills that does not even work, or stop working when u die.... and a hugelist of fails that is increased each day.

Thanks Zenimax and Bethesda your game is the more annoying and frustrating one i have played in my life, absolutely a sabotage to yourselves. Bruixa

one_eye

tanthil wrote: »

I read about 7 lines of your rant post and somehow you defend zenimax for breaking so many dam things in this game by blaming people for playing too much... as if some how playing too much created all these bugs/unplayable content.

Nope, zenimax created them through pure incompetence.

Unless you are in fact stating that these people who play to much are in fact playing this game on zenimaxs computer that they use to create these patches therefor actually giving zenimax way less time on their own computers to test content before releasing? idk is that what you are saying? because that is all i can see that makes it plausibly our fault

I know that sounds stupid but im just going with the overall tone of this thread i guess

I do agree that Zenimax jacked some things up. But you guys have such a black and white view: they messed something up, so Zenimax, as a whole, must be incompetent.

What's it like living in the fantasy world you live in where there are no mistakes? No errors? Can I come live there, too?

kirnmalidus

one_eye wrote: »

It seems people just really, really hate ESO. So, again, why are you playing? Why are you responding to a forum discussion? Why are you one forum? I'm getting attacked for saying I like ESO and actually understand, or try to, the point of view of Zenimax.

Because we don't hate ESO, we love it. We hate how Zenimax's mismanagement of updates is driving it into the ground.

one_eye

kirnmalidus wrote: »

I lead a team that builds websites as well. If my team pushed an update that broke this much stuff on a client's website I would be discussing firing the people responsible for testing the updates and I would expect the client to fire us as their agency for breaking their site.

Very true, and I'm in the same boat. So therein lies the real question: what's going on within Zenimax? The forum makes Zenimax appear to be nothing more than a thousand monkeys clacking away on a thousand keyboards.

Maybe people did get fired because of the 1.1.2 patch. Maybe they're bringing some new, top devs in to help sort the problems out. I don't know, nor for that matter, do any us, the inner workings of Zenimax. But it doesn't help when players just assume that EVERYONE at Zenimax is a complete moron.

amadoth

If you all are so unhappy with the product then why are you "paying" to play ESO? I read all these posts about about how this should be tested, or this should be coded a specific way and so on and so on. How many of you are actually coders, implementer s, support professionals and truly understand how hard this stuff is?
I'm no fan-boy but I can sure tell you this stuff isn't easy. Here's a quick example: for 2 months I've worked on installing/configuring Product A in our dev/test environment. I had multiple teams and end users test Product A until "they" were 100% satisfied and then migrated everything to our production environment and followed the exact same steps and guess what --- it didn't work. All the testing that's done isn't always going to catch all the mistakes, bugs or variables involved. You should all just take a step back and breathe - it's a game.

Karnus

After playing Warhammer Online for 5 years I have absolutely no complaints about Zenimax!

one_eye

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Because we don't hate ESO, we love it. We hate how Zenimax's mismanagement of updates is driving it into the ground.

And I totally get that. Provide good feedback, report bugs, report spammers - that's how everyone can help.

Incessantly bashing Zenimax, threatening to cancel, etc. - that doesn't help.

Bhakura

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Because we don't hate ESO, we love it. We hate how Zenimax's mismanagement of updates is driving it into the ground.

hows this patch driving it into the ground, before patch people where screaming for balanced skills, they got balanced.
People where screaming for content, they got content.
People where screaming for more exp, they got more exp from kills, but you gonna have to work for it which is only logical.
People where screaming for a working thief stone, they tried fixing that, it still not working properly but they tried, a try out is as good as a fix, at least they not ignoring it.
Patch came with a memory leak bug, but they already stated they have a fix for it.
They changed stuff for the better, new icons, new textures, of course there HAS to be a few that just HAS to dislike it.

Sorry, but i dont see how this is "driving it into the ground" ...

one_eye

amadoth wrote: »

If you all are so unhappy with the product then why are you "paying" to play ESO? I read all these posts about about how this should be tested, or this should be coded a specific way and so on and so on. How many of you are actually coders, implementer s, support professionals and truly understand how hard this stuff is?
I'm no fan-boy but I can sure tell you this stuff isn't easy. Here's a quick example: for 2 months I've worked on installing/configuring Product A in our dev/test environment. I had multiple teams and end users test Product A until "they" were 100% satisfied and then migrated everything to our production environment and followed the exact same steps and guess what --- it didn't work. All the testing that's done isn't always going to catch all the mistakes, bugs or variables involved. You should all just take a step back and breathe - it's a game.

Exactly. We do rounds and rounds of internal testing. But you show me the web application or platform that rolled out 100% BUG/PROBLEM FREE? You can't, because it does not exist.

And though I don't work in the game industry, I'll bet it's exactly the same way.

nawlinzbilly

I have been playing this fabulous game for a total of 11 days. I play a sorcerer, and I don't think I was effected much by the patch, at least nothing that is obvious at the moment. <-- *But I am a N00B*

I think that the game will be harder for the people like myself that are level 30 and have not had a chance to exploit the easy bosses that many have already had the honor of doing so. I think that as you progress through any type of game, and enter "harder" levels, the challenge should be "harder"... see what I did there?

I think this game has WAY more positives, then negatives!

Here's a thought. Why not adapt to the game, if you're a real gamer, then you should be able to do that right?

But what do I know? I am after all a N00B

Cheers!!

Gwarok

tanthil wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

The main issue is, this is no longer "launch". This was a big patch that ZoS supposedly spent a lot of time on. After the trainwreck that was "official launch", you'd think they would have learned not to release things until they are fully tested.

This would probably be acceptable if ESO were a F2P or even B2P game. But it's not. We made the initial investment of purchasing the game, then we have to pay an additional charge on a monthly basis. We expect a AAA game to be run by a AAA team.

exactly you put a $79 price tag on your game and a $15 monthly fee you are now right at the top of the market for pricing.

But they are currently sitting dam near the bottom of the market for quality.

Opinions vary.


...again,

#ThreeMonthRule

one_eye

Gwarok wrote: »

Opinions vary.

You know when Dalton said that in the Double Deuce, there were, uh, there were some problems afterwards.

tordr86b16_ESO

one_eye wrote: »

This is a video game. That's all. Just a game to play for fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boh92DrYEWs

roflcopter

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

one_eye wrote: »

This is a video game. That's all. Just a game to play for fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boh92DrYEWs

You rang?

Con64

The old bugs that had been fixed are back! Micro freeze 4 sec in city's...falling through the world entering buildings...load screens popping up were they shouldn't...long loading screens. How on Earth can you release a new patch with the return of old bugs?

tordr86b16_ESO

roflcopter wrote: »

You rang?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an_by5r8EUc

one_eye

Aoifesan wrote: »

]

The old adage is that for every angry letter you receive, there are 1000 more that were so pissed off, they couldn't be bothered to write to you about it.

That's the dumbest "adage" I've ever heard. Where'd you come up with that gem? Is that really how it works?

phairdon

Has no hate for the game. Like lots of people, I have been playing since launch. Yet there are moments of pure frustration with this game like you most likely have read; in regard to an increase in difficulty with veteran mobs & having to potentially having to group with other players to get through these area's now.

Wants this game to succeed but for whatever reason I have had a sense of unease about teso (impending sense of doom) like stated in another post. Not because of the latest patch either.

Update.
Zenimax posted in another discussion about this being unintended & being rolled back within the next 24 hours. Progress!

ZurinArctus

umad at losing bash as a play style ... it was overpowering. Constant blocking, interruption and 400+ damage hits? 1600 sneak attack? Trollolol.

umad at losing Bat Swarm as a play style ... constant invulnerability and AoE poison mist form. Makes sense. You have bigger problems if you sucked so bad you had to stack Akaviri set gear for an I Win button.

It's like me getting mad in Skyrim at release because I was able to use Enchanting to stack 105% cost reduction on Destruction spells and get unlimited free expert and master casts. Then a patch came and ruined it. I was so angry.

http://youtu.be/M5QGkOGZubQ

one_eye

Elgin wrote: »

I agree ESO will get better, but accepting a step back when you are paying for a service is not a good.

Well, my friend, welcome to the world of reality. Give me an example of a service - any industry, anywhere in the world, that is not wrought with periodic problems and setbacks.

I pay for high speed internet. Sometimes the internet goes down (issue or maintenance). I pay for cable TV - sometimes that goes out, too.

We pay for lots of things that don't go swimmingly each and every time. That's life, dude!

Ojustaboo

I absolutely love this game, but my guilds conclusion which I agree with entirely is that someone at Zenimax lacks total common sense.

Why on earth did they decide to do a major patch at the end of the week, common sense says do it at the beginning while you have all your staff in the office for the rest of the week to fix any urgent issues.

I dont know about the rest of the planet, but the UK has a long weekend including Monday, not a good time to find loads of game breaking issues.

We have planned a huge pvp day starting tomorrow at 10am until midnight, we expect to be drunk by the end of it, and we expect our guild to have great fun.

This had been planned for this Saturday for a couple of weeks. Now some cant play for very long due to mem leaks, others cant take stuff ouf of the bank, others are getting xp for discovering areas they have already been to and Zenimax have said they will be applying a patch tomorrow, which could mean our pvp session many of us were looking forwards to, will be canceled or severely intrupted.

When the update was announced on ign on Wednesday, our guild leader said "thats our weeksnd ruined then"

We understand things go wrong, but common sense says you dont do this at the end of the week, and if you do it on one server and major issues arise, you hold off doing it on the other until you have a fix.

I adore this game as do most of my guild (guild plays various mmos), I have never seen such anger about this game from my guild as I have seen tonight.