Was biting jabs nerfed?

Sleestak

A huge nerf like this slipped thru the patch notes. That is almost more embarrassing

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, wanted to post a small update on this. We started looking into this yesterday as soon as we saw reports. We're working on gathering the details--if this slipped through the patch notes, we'll get it added.

This is just hilarious. These guys make funcom look pro.

Calgrissom

Soulshine wrote: »

Calgrissom wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Given the read in this entire thread, it is pretty clear what the issue is. Templars are by far the most versatile class in the game and have been in quite a good place for some time. This is a tempest in a tea cup if you ask me.

If you had been around last year in beta, you would know that this skill went through a number of animation issues and bugs, including getting frozen on you indefinitely if used to the point where it would lock out all other skills from being effective. Something similar is happening again for whatever reasons in the game tech, which I HIGHLY doubt were intentional on ZoS's part. Obviously it is a bug so do the right thing and file a bug report and please get on with it.

There are tons of skills at your disposal to dispatch groups of mobs in no time flat in VR content - and yes! even when in LIGHT ARMOR and using a Restro staff for heaven sake. Aedric spear has some very fine options for AoE combined with other weapons and Dawn's Wrath for ST, so make use of what you have until this gets addressed and you are golden.

Please do tell me what Melee ability as a 1h/shield Templar tank have other than jabs? I'm looking hard here. I have wait .... 0 melee abilities other than that one. Sorry Don't give me the resto staff garbage. Ive effectively Main tanked every thing in the game as a Temp tank in heavy armor up to v10. I have 0 option for Melee now as 1h and shield has no effective melee dps abilities.

/facepalm

please with your epic trolling show me another Melee ability a 1h/shield Templar can effectively use to do adequate damage. Please share you tanking build and your list of achievements. You are Vr10 correct? You have every undaunted and speed run achievement from all dungeons in the game right?
So /facetroll explain to me what mystical melee ability you use on your Templar tank to do some sort of proficient damage?

Mortosk

moXrox wrote: »

PikkonMG wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Spamming Jabs

Cool-down/Delay

There seems to be a difference in what people are experiencing with the cool-down. Some people report up to or over a second delay in being able to use any attack after jabs. Others have reported much less of delay, so much so in fact that a less effective form of spamming jabs is possible. There have also been lag and frame rate issues reported with the update. It is possible that there is something about some characters or the associated accounts or their connection to the server that is causing them a longer delay for this ability. If so, this could have a significant effect on their use of this ability. As the issue is very new, there is no way for individual players to fully assess the validity of such claims made by others because if there is a bug it may not be affecting everyone. If there is an unintended consequence to jabs from the recent patch the best thing those affected can do is to submit a detailed bug report that would help reveal a pattern of who is or isn't getting the longer delay. It could be anything from race to weapon equipped to who knows what.

In any case, try to relax this weekend if you can. If the game is frustrating you consider taking a break. For those in the US, have a great Memorial Day weekend.

Mine is about 1.3 sec that im unable to do anything after the channel finishes. For me using Jabs basically equals a 1.3 sec self stun after the channel finishes.

For me it is just normal.

You hit a button and watch the animation, after the animation ends you hit again the same button and the same animation starts again.

Not hammering or spamming the ability or exploiting animation canceling.

Not normal. A 1.1 second skill should take 1.1 seconds. Not 2.4 - 2.5 seconds. If it does than the effectiveness of it is essentially cut by over 65%. Not to mention the defenseless position it puts you in when it locks your spell bar after the channel is over.

Silverblade

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
How do you not know if this change was intentional or not? What "details" need to be tracked down? Is there really so little communication happening between departments at ZOS that any simple question results in a long silent investigation and a bunch of teed off paying customers?

Slash8915

Sleestak wrote: »

A huge nerf like this slipped thru the patch notes. That is almost more embarrassing

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, wanted to post a small update on this. We started looking into this yesterday as soon as we saw reports. We're working on gathering the details--if this slipped through the patch notes, we'll get it added.

This is just hilarious. These guys make funcom look pro.

I came to ESO from TSW. When I first came over I thought to myself, "Finally! an MMO that's AAA. No more bugs and glitches for me!"

Boy was I wrong. In comparison, TSW is significantly more stable. Not the performance, perhaps. But the communication with customers and general gameplay is much better.

RoCoL

Soulshine wrote: »

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Given the read in this entire thread, it is pretty clear what the issue is. Templars are by far the most versatile class in the game and have been in quite a good place for some time. This is a tempest in a tea cup if you ask me.

If you had been around last year in beta, you would know that this skill went through a number of animation issues and bugs, including getting frozen on you indefinitely if used to the point where it would lock out all other skills from being effective. Something similar is happening again for whatever reasons in the game tech, which I HIGHLY doubt were intentional on ZoS's part. Obviously it is a bug so do the right thing and file a bug report and please get on with it.

There are tons of skills at your disposal to dispatch groups of mobs in no time flat in VR content - and yes! even when in LIGHT ARMOR and using a Restro staff for heaven sake. Aedric spear has some very fine options for AoE combined with other weapons and Dawn's Wrath for ST, so make use of what you have until this gets addressed and you are golden.

Your full of it.
Please list a few of the "tons of skills at your disposal to dispatch VR mobs"

As I stated, you have plenty to work with in Aedric Spear besides Biting Jabs, and I have already stated that earlier in the thread. If you rely on a single skill for your rotation to be effective, you have a lot to figure out. Go do some reading and find a build that works for you.

So i already use spear for a single target 3.5 sec reprieve. That does nothing when facing more than 2 trash mobs. And you telling me to go copy someones build so i am viable.
im vr 6 and am not going to farm vr 1 areas. I have no issue with the game being challenging, or hard or difficult- this is not the case. Its impossible for me to take on more than 2 opponents in "solo friendly" areas now.
And i have changed skills, tried different combos, working with what i have. I have equipped heavy armor, sword and board- let me let you in on a little secret- its BROKEN and if this is as intended then prepare for the templar tsunami of cancelled accounts.

I did not tell you to "copy someones build." I am saying very planly there is more than one way to skin a cat and there are plenty of builds in TF discussion which prove it.

No one is disputing the Jabs is bugged atm. I already stated to bug it as we have done in the past. Meantime, manage some level of creativity and work around it. The problem is not as over the top and the reactions it's receiving. You do have choices. Use them.

Dude. now youre talking down to me like im stuck on stupid.

I look at my skill tree like a tool box. i dig around and find what works best-sometimes swapping skills between mage heavy mob or melee heavy mob. i play my templar similar to a classic D&D Paladin/ undead hunter. i can shut down mages, burn the heretics and clear trash while giving my party or myself some buffage or purification. when I approach a dungeon or an anchor i am a quick swap to resto staff away from being full time heals for the group.

short of depleting my magic pool in exchange for more life or stamina based melee attacks my Templar/resto staff/sword and board-grind through 'solo' friendly content is not viable.

I am not a child, I am not stuck in a rut and keep trying different variations using puncturing sweep- I have changed everything and tried my whole tool-box and magic heavy, healer spec, robe wearing templar is NOT viable when questing in appropriate or below my VR level.

MrBeatDown

it got nerfed cuz some AOE HI DPS OP Spam sorc cried about it. If it makes you feel any better, the nerfed my Interrupt bash into the ground.

Reinmard

So, it may not be a bug. Gogdamit "sighhhh" I have to learn to avoid scams, but is just my innoooocent and puuuuuuure attitude to trust the developers.

Mortosk

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

stevenpotter321b14_ESO wrote: »

Get it added? As in, added as something to fix, or adding a note to patch notes mentioning a delay being added?

We're tracking down what was changed. Once we have all the details, we will amend the patch notes.

If this is intentional, I'm going to find another game to play, because you've ruined the feel of combat in the style I've been playing since beta. I sincerely hope you change your mind. But it's not worth it for me to start over at this point.

moXrox

Mortosk wrote: »

moXrox wrote: »

You guys exaggerate.

I just started testing my templar and biting jabs.

The delay is almost not noticeable, very tiny changes.


So much whining about such a little change....wow.

You are the one exaggerating if you think it's not noticeable. Unless you have a rare brain disease that makes you lose huge chunks of time that is. And if so, my condolences on your condition.

Yeah and my condolence to your choices of wording.

Mortosk

Slash8915 wrote: »

So I'm looking at Templar tank and general PvE builds right now. Every single one of them makes use of Puncturing Sweep. So your argument is invalid. "If you rely on a single skill for your rotation to be effective, you have a lot to figure out." Then please, tell me why EVERY ONE of these builds uses it? Oh, and not as a finisher, I might add.

If it was designed to be a finisher why would it need a knock back component? You know any corpses that fight back? It was designed to be a fun stabby stabby fast and quick like and who wants to stop after just one? It takes 4 or 5 to kill a vet mob at my level. I have a rotation I use two dawns wrath abilities, one from range to apply dot and trigger passiv dawns wrath skills and then i shield charge in for knock down and aoe to boost crit bonus, and I proceed to the stabbing until it is dead or I use my ultimate as a finisher.

RoCoL

Mortosk wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

stevenpotter321b14_ESO wrote: »

Get it added? As in, added as something to fix, or adding a note to patch notes mentioning a delay being added?

We're tracking down what was changed. Once we have all the details, we will amend the patch notes.

If this is intentional, I'm going to find another game to play, because you've ruined the feel of combat in the style I've been playing since beta. I sincerely hope you change your mind. But it's not worth it for me to start over at this point.

Agree. And imagine, if you use melee as secondary, trying to level up w/o it! Good freaking luck finding a healer past level 10!

Slash8915

Mortosk wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

So I'm looking at Templar tank and general PvE builds right now. Every single one of them makes use of Puncturing Sweep. So your argument is invalid. "If you rely on a single skill for your rotation to be effective, you have a lot to figure out." Then please, tell me why EVERY ONE of these builds uses it? Oh, and not as a finisher, I might add.

If it was designed to be a finisher why would it need a knock back component? You know any corpses that fight back? It was designed to be a fun stabby stabby fast and quick like and who wants to stop after just one? It takes 4 or 5 to kill a vet mob at my level. I have a rotation I use two dawns wrath abilities, one range one aoe to trigger crit bonus and then I proceed to the stabbing until it is dead.

I find it useful against Daedra or Undead mobs. Silver Bolts, two rotations of Puncturing Sweep, rinse repeat. With this nerf, that has become impossible to do.

hamon

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

stevenpotter321b14_ESO wrote: »

Get it added? As in, added as something to fix, or adding a note to patch notes mentioning a delay being added?

We're tracking down what was changed. Once we have all the details, we will amend the patch notes.

so what your saying is that you dont know whether it was supposed to be in ? but if it is in even tho nobody seems aware of it being , then you just simply add an amendment to the notes and assume its supposed to be in?

that seems idiotic with all due respect. if it is a deliberate and planned and tested change then someone would know and be able to say so..if its not deliberate tested and planned then it needs reverting to the way it was not just a note added to the notes..

"hey seems we changed jabs by accident" but since we did we,ll just leave it as it is"

Elgarr

Baphomet wrote: »

From my testing, there now seem to be a 0.1.-0.3 sec delay between casts when you spam puncturing strikes. Nothing to worry about here. It's still 100% spammable and you can still cue the next channel while there is one being executed.

The real issue is what other people report as well, that once a puncturing strike channel has completed, there is an about 1-1.5 second delay before you can cast a different ability (i.e. not puncturing strikes).

I have had that before today's patch, with casting after the PS.
It's totally unplayable trying to solo mobs using Ps then trying to heal yourself.
Sorry but Zenimax you have taken /FAIL to a whole new level.

Kyosji

Wait....wait....wait. Did Zeni just say that if they found a bug in the skill, they would add it to the patch not as something they added?

I'm a fan of this game, but that comment was pretty dirty.

NordJitsu

Not that I think this is a good change, but I'll share a little trick I've played with on a Templar that is RIDICULOUS for AoE.

Open with Explosive Charge, then Alternate between Solar Barrage and Pulsar. Solar Barrage increases weapon and spell power for the next attack, which will make your Pulsar hit ridiculously hard. Its pretty much the best trash clearing build in the game. You can open with reflective light to keep them from getting away and have even more DPS. Extended ritual is your last skill, which is just for healing and purging.

RoCoL

Mortosk wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

So I'm looking at Templar tank and general PvE builds right now. Every single one of them makes use of Puncturing Sweep. So your argument is invalid. "If you rely on a single skill for your rotation to be effective, you have a lot to figure out." Then please, tell me why EVERY ONE of these builds uses it? Oh, and not as a finisher, I might add.

If it was designed to be a finisher why would it need a knock back component? You know any corpses that fight back? It was designed to be a fun stabby stabby fast and quick like and who wants to stop after just one? It takes 4 or 5 to kill a vet mob at my level. I have a rotation I use two dawns wrath abilities, one from range to apply dot and trigger passiv dawns wrath skills and then i shield charge in for knock down and aoe to boost crit bonus, and I proceed to the stabbing until it is dead or I use my ultimate as a finisher.

I play mine similar. Empowering Sweep is my primary finisher- low cost and aoe. My lead offs might change, especially if I have a moment to swap out some skills. Purifying Light on melee heavy trash and shut down a mage with Eclipse. All in all, I "need" Puncturing Sweep in the rotation- and it needs to fire in succession whether its 2x or 4. I use one or 2 stamina based skills too.

But man, I hope its current state winds up being a bug and not a feature.

Nickhead420

NordJitsu wrote: »

...Pulsar

Nice ability, but it requires lvl 38 in Destro Staff just to unlock. Most people complaining are using Resto Staff or 1h/Shield. Leveling a whole new tree to replace one ability isn't something you'll easily convince people to do.

Gaudrath

RoCoL wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

So I'm looking at Templar tank and general PvE builds right now. Every single one of them makes use of Puncturing Sweep. So your argument is invalid. "If you rely on a single skill for your rotation to be effective, you have a lot to figure out." Then please, tell me why EVERY ONE of these builds uses it? Oh, and not as a finisher, I might add.

If it was designed to be a finisher why would it need a knock back component? You know any corpses that fight back? It was designed to be a fun stabby stabby fast and quick like and who wants to stop after just one? It takes 4 or 5 to kill a vet mob at my level. I have a rotation I use two dawns wrath abilities, one from range to apply dot and trigger passiv dawns wrath skills and then i shield charge in for knock down and aoe to boost crit bonus, and I proceed to the stabbing until it is dead or I use my ultimate as a finisher.

I play mine similar. Empowering Sweep is my primary finisher- low cost and aoe. My lead offs might change, especially if I have a moment to swap out some skills. Purifying Light on melee heavy trash and shut down a mage with Eclipse. All in all, I "need" Puncturing Sweep in the rotation- and it needs to fire in succession whether its 2x or 4. I use one or 2 stamina based skills too.

But man, I hope its current state winds up being a bug and not a feature.

Might want to rethink using Empowering Sweep for a finisher. Empowering sweep is excellent to use as an opener or mid-combat. All that extra armor is wasted if you kill stuff with it and there is no one left to hit you.

Try modifying your rotation so that you throw in a light attack between your Puncturing Sweeps. They will chain together and you will keep your damage up.

Reinmard

When you realize is just a game and there are a lot more out there, you see how we are raging too much, just dont play, dont pay, and play something else, you wont waste time complaining, or disappointing or flaming...way more healthy.
Is not a job, im not going to study all my class again to learn a new build to play in a way I dont really enjoy just because is the most useful one.That actually would look more like a job than a game.

Gaudrath

Reinmard wrote: »

When you realize is just a game and there are a lot more out there, you see how we are raging too much, just dont play, dont pay, and play something else, you wont waste time complaining, or disappointing or flaming...way more healthy.
Is not a job, im not going to study all my class again to learn a new build to play in a way I dont really enjoy just because is the most useful one.That actually would look more like a job than a game.

This. And to be honest, I don't understand this need to be at your absolute best. Bugs aside, people are acting like there is only one way to play the game and if you try anything else you just get killed over and over.

I sometimes play just with a single one handed sword. Because I feel like it. And even without any points in S&B, do I get destroyed all the time? Nope.

Mephos

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

stevenpotter321b14_ESO wrote: »

Get it added? As in, added as something to fix, or adding a note to patch notes mentioning a delay being added?

We're tracking down what was changed. Once we have all the details, we will amend the patch notes.

does this means it works as intended and just got forgot in the patch notes?
so it will stay like this and is not broken?

guys.. when I use biting jabs I can´t use ANY OTHER skill after the use for 1.3 seconds. Its ok to make a cooldown on biting jabs but you need to look if into that if this is a bug.

I do a biting jabs and then I get hit for 1.3 seconds and can+t heal myself after that. monster hitting me while I cast 1.1 seconds the jabs so I´m mostly dead when it ends.

If I can´t heal after that I just get killed in most of the times.

Is this working as intended if yes I will change skills accordingly

Limelife

To be honest a lot of people think Temps have all these skills they don't have. Jabs getting nerfed is giant for most Temps.

dermottib14_ESO

This is very disapointing, my templar is pretty much unplayable without a respec, And as i just respecced 2 days ago, im broke. (16k cost).

Guess ill enjoy memorial weekend and hope this gets fixed...

Limelife

If this was a intended nerf that it should of been skill point reset like all the other kill changes.

Forztr

Using Puncturing Sweep I've noticed that the next one doesn't fire until the animation of the previous one as finished.
I did a quick test chaining 5 together by pressing key before animation finished to queue up the next one and it took 12.1 to all five. That's 2.4secs per cast not 1.1sex as in the tooltip.

What I think they've done is made so abilities cannot be recast until the animation is finished. Which is fine if the animation is the only as long as the cast time. They should shorten the animation to 1.1secs or increase the damage to reflect the longer cast time.

(Sidenote: The same thing happens for me with shield bash before I could clip the animation to spam it but now i need to wait until the animation as played out before using it again)

dermottib14_ESO

Forztr wrote: »

Using Puncturing Sweep I've noticed that the next one doesn't fire until the animation of the previous one as finished.
I did a quick test chaining 5 together by pressing key before animation finished to queue up the next one and it took 12.1 to all five. That's 2.4secs per cast not 1.1sex as in the tooltip.

What I think they've done is made so abilities cannot be recast until the animation is finished. Which is fine if the animation is the only as long as the cast time. They should shorten the animation to 1.1secs or increase the damage to reflect the longer cast time.

(Sidenote: The same thing happens for me with shield bash before I could clip the animation to spam it but now i need to wait until the animation as played out before using it again)

Agreed. Fact is, it takes longer to cast then prepatch, for the same damage. The DPS HAS BEEN LOWERED. Therefore it is a NERF. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves.

Fact, it says 1.1 second channel time on the tooltip. This is clearly WRONG. Why other putting any times on tooltips if the animation is considered the cast time?

spinedoc

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

Actually you have to taking biting jabs to even begin leveling the skill tree right? Basically Templars HAVE to take biting jabs. Even if it drops from their rotation.

Yeah but if you take biting jabs you would want to fill more of the skill line out to further help it, so it's not just one or 2 points invested.

tplink3r1

bittin jabs is one of the 3 abilities that made me create a tempar in BETA, it was so cool, and now its useless for group of mobs.
i want to go back to sorc, but i cant see myself leveling to vr10 again.