Was biting jabs nerfed?

Humanistic

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ - If you guys are concerned with the high damage, then adjust the damage, don't adjust something that isn't part of the problem. A resource cost adjustment doesn't fix the high damage issue, people can just pop potions or magicka regen abilities to work around it.

Adjust the damage if you're concerned about the damage. Adjusting something like speed in order to fix a damage issue probably causes more harm than good.

madangrypally

Deadmedic wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ - If you guys are concerned with the high damage, then adjust the damage, don't adjust something that isn't part of the problem. A resource cost adjustment doesn't fix the high damage issue, people can just pop potions or magicka regen abilities to work around it.

Adjust the damage if you're concerned about the damage. Adjusting something like speed in order to fix a damage issue probably causes more harm than good.

Disagree about nerfing the damage. That would be nearly as bad as what they did to it. I am ok with them increasing the magicka cost though.

Oldesarge

Ok I just played for a bit, the we adjusted the cooldown answer we were given does not in any way explain why it locks out other abilities as well.

I couldnt even get off a heal after using jabs

As a few others have said its like a self stun now, if thats gonna be the case the damage should go up not down.

Elgarr

Please devs answer about other abilities being affected after using biting jabs, trying to heal after using this skill is pointless.
Really winds me up, that the biggest problem isn't answered here.

RoCoL

Soulshine wrote: »

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Given the read in this entire thread, it is pretty clear what the issue is. Templars are by far the most versatile class in the game and have been in quite a good place for some time. This is a tempest in a tea cup if you ask me.

If you had been around last year in beta, you would know that this skill went through a number of animation issues and bugs, including getting frozen on you indefinitely if used to the point where it would lock out all other skills from being effective. Something similar is happening again for whatever reasons in the game tech, which I HIGHLY doubt were intentional on ZoS's part. Obviously it is a bug so do the right thing and file a bug report and please get on with it.

There are tons of skills at your disposal to dispatch groups of mobs in no time flat in VR content - and yes! even when in LIGHT ARMOR and using a Restro staff for heaven sake. Aedric spear has some very fine options for AoE combined with other weapons and Dawn's Wrath for ST, so make use of what you have until this gets addressed and you are golden.

Your full of it.
Please list a few of the "tons of skills at your disposal to dispatch VR mobs"

As I stated, you have plenty to work with in Aedric Spear besides Biting Jabs, and I have already stated that earlier in the thread. If you rely on a single skill for your rotation to be effective, you have a lot to figure out. Go do some reading and find a build that works for you.

So i already use spear for a single target 3.5 sec reprieve. That does nothing when facing more than 2 trash mobs. And you telling me to go copy someones build so i am viable.
im vr 6 and am not going to farm vr 1 areas. I have no issue with the game being challenging, or hard or difficult- this is not the case. Its impossible for me to take on more than 2 opponents in "solo friendly" areas now.
And i have changed skills, tried different combos, working with what i have. I have equipped heavy armor, sword and board- let me let you in on a little secret- its BROKEN and if this is as intended then prepare for the templar tsunami of cancelled accounts.

I did not tell you to "copy someones build." I am saying very planly there is more than one way to skin a cat and there are plenty of builds in TF discussion which prove it.

No one is disputing the Jabs is bugged atm. I already stated to bug it as we have done in the past. Meantime, manage some level of creativity and work around it. The problem is not as over the top and the reactions it's receiving. You do have choices. Use them.

Dude. now youre talking down to me like im stuck on stupid.

I look at my skill tree like a tool box. i dig around and find what works best-sometimes swapping skills between mage heavy mob or melee heavy mob. i play my templar similar to a classic D&D Paladin/ undead hunter. i can shut down mages, burn the heretics and clear trash while giving my party or myself some buffage or purification. when I approach a dungeon or an anchor i am a quick swap to resto staff away from being full time heals for the group.

short of depleting my magic pool in exchange for more life or stamina based melee attacks my Templar/resto staff/sword and board-grind through 'solo' friendly content is not viable.

I am not a child, I am not stuck in a rut and keep trying different variations using puncturing sweep- I have changed everything and tried my whole tool-box and magic heavy, healer spec, robe wearing templar is NOT viable when questing in appropriate or below my VR level.

If your "tool box" and your build is not viable, then look at your build. There is no way you should be going down from taking on 2 trash mobs. Just because you have had that experience, that doesn't mean everyone else does.

Look buddy, you obviously are ignoring the fact there are broken mechanics, for whatever reason, currently going on. It has had a significant impact on the playability and most certainly the survivability of Templar, light armor, healing spec, while I -fake it at being a dps just to level- kind of player. There are more than a few threads concerning the issue on the forums and not just in this post

In light of the facts, and physical evidence its obvious you are just being pretentious and essentially trying to tell me and other Templars to L2P with out sounding like the typical pretentious L2P troll.

Its been said but bears repeating; this skill, to my knowledge, was never complained out in PVP or multiple threads like some other skills, yet got nerfed.

My build was completely viable up until last patch.

Soulshine

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

RoCoL wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Given the read in this entire thread, it is pretty clear what the issue is. Templars are by far the most versatile class in the game and have been in quite a good place for some time. This is a tempest in a tea cup if you ask me.

If you had been around last year in beta, you would know that this skill went through a number of animation issues and bugs, including getting frozen on you indefinitely if used to the point where it would lock out all other skills from being effective. Something similar is happening again for whatever reasons in the game tech, which I HIGHLY doubt were intentional on ZoS's part. Obviously it is a bug so do the right thing and file a bug report and please get on with it.

There are tons of skills at your disposal to dispatch groups of mobs in no time flat in VR content - and yes! even when in LIGHT ARMOR and using a Restro staff for heaven sake. Aedric spear has some very fine options for AoE combined with other weapons and Dawn's Wrath for ST, so make use of what you have until this gets addressed and you are golden.

Your full of it.
Please list a few of the "tons of skills at your disposal to dispatch VR mobs"

As I stated, you have plenty to work with in Aedric Spear besides Biting Jabs, and I have already stated that earlier in the thread. If you rely on a single skill for your rotation to be effective, you have a lot to figure out. Go do some reading and find a build that works for you.

So i already use spear for a single target 3.5 sec reprieve. That does nothing when facing more than 2 trash mobs. And you telling me to go copy someones build so i am viable.
im vr 6 and am not going to farm vr 1 areas. I have no issue with the game being challenging, or hard or difficult- this is not the case. Its impossible for me to take on more than 2 opponents in "solo friendly" areas now.
And i have changed skills, tried different combos, working with what i have. I have equipped heavy armor, sword and board- let me let you in on a little secret- its BROKEN and if this is as intended then prepare for the templar tsunami of cancelled accounts.

I did not tell you to "copy someones build." I am saying very planly there is more than one way to skin a cat and there are plenty of builds in TF discussion which prove it.

No one is disputing the Jabs is bugged atm. I already stated to bug it as we have done in the past. Meantime, manage some level of creativity and work around it. The problem is not as over the top and the reactions it's receiving. You do have choices. Use them.

Dude. now youre talking down to me like im stuck on stupid.

I look at my skill tree like a tool box. i dig around and find what works best-sometimes swapping skills between mage heavy mob or melee heavy mob. i play my templar similar to a classic D&D Paladin/ undead hunter. i can shut down mages, burn the heretics and clear trash while giving my party or myself some buffage or purification. when I approach a dungeon or an anchor i am a quick swap to resto staff away from being full time heals for the group.

short of depleting my magic pool in exchange for more life or stamina based melee attacks my Templar/resto staff/sword and board-grind through 'solo' friendly content is not viable.

I am not a child, I am not stuck in a rut and keep trying different variations using puncturing sweep- I have changed everything and tried my whole tool-box and magic heavy, healer spec, robe wearing templar is NOT viable when questing in appropriate or below my VR level.

If your "tool box" and your build is not viable, then look at your build. There is no way you should be going down from taking on 2 trash mobs. Just because you have had that experience, that doesn't mean everyone else does.

Look buddy, you obviously are ignoring the fact there are broken mechanics, for whatever reason, currently going on. It has had a significant impact on the playability and most certainly the survivability of Templar, light armor, healing spec, while I -fake it at being a dps just to level- kind of player. There are more than a few threads concerning the issue on the forums and not just in this post

In light of the facts, and physical evidence its obvious you are just being pretentious and essentially trying to tell me and other Templars to L2P with out sounding like the typical pretentious L2P troll.

Its been said but bears repeating; this skill, to my knowledge, was never complained out in PVP or multiple threads like some other skills, yet got nerfed.

My build was completely viable up until last patch.

I am ingoring nothing. It would appear you have. I have repeatedly stated that it merits reporting as a bug - it has had simialr issues in beta and at one point we were not even able to use it. Since you seem bent on also ignoring that there are other skills that you can and SHOULD be using to dps, there is little else to say. Calling me a troll when I barely ever post here is indication enough of what the problem really is. Get over it and move on pls.

Reinmard

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.

In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

Too bad I dont care any longer.
Enjoy my money, you wont see more again.

fenweeneb18_ESO

Templar nerf? Bwahahahahaha

Slash8915

I played for a while today without using Puncturing Sweep. It was fun coming up with different builds and whatnot... But nothing can beat having Puncturing Sweep in my rotation. Please hurry with this fix, and PLEASE dont make the magicka requirement ridiculous.

FJheals

PLEASE FIX THIS I CAN'T PLAY LIKE THIS!

Recap

Seriously... Nerfing a MELEE TEMPLAR???? More like trying to find an easy fix to the bots. That was our only descent melee ability, and it was something that didn't cost a *** amount of magicka that had a good return on dps. Can I get a free token to transform into a DK? K Thx.

Maverick827

Deadmedic wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ - If you guys are concerned with the high damage, then adjust the damage, don't adjust something that isn't part of the problem. A resource cost adjustment doesn't fix the high damage issue, people can just pop potions or magicka regen abilities to work around it.

Adjust the damage if you're concerned about the damage. Adjusting something like speed in order to fix a damage issue probably causes more harm than good.

I agree.

People tend to get bummed out by resource management problems. It would be better to slightly reduce the damage than to slightly increase the cost, if it needs to be nerfed at all.

Mortosk

I don't think they understand the severity of their screw up here. The impact this has had on the Templar Class deserves immediate action. If they truly did understand how many people this is effecting and how much they would have reverted this in the hotfix tonight, but they didn't. We are going to be gimped like this for a long time if we have to wait for the next patch, and I can't stand it anymore.

The sheer stupidity of this nerf is astounding to me. I've seen my share of nerfs over the years playing an Arcane Mage in WoW, then having to switch to Fire because they completely screwed up the spec. This ranks up there with the best of them.

I played my templar for half an hour since this patch went live, died 3 times to 2-pack V2 mobs, and I haven't played him since other than to log in and start research for crafting and upgrade my mount.

Nox_Aeterna

Well , i still have time till i need to pay up my sub again , if this is not fixed by then , im out.

This nerf is ridiculous and uncalled for , the skill was never something that good to begin with compared with what other got , it just happens is all the templars got.

And im not rerolling , i would rather stop playing this game.

madangrypally

This needs to be hotfixed or at least patched fast. Going after bots is all fine but when not at the expense of destroying a classes only decent melee ability. The longer ZoS leaves it like it is the more subs they will loose.

Silverblade

The first 5 minutes of game play post patch I noticed this change and knew it was either a bug or a really, really stupid change. I'm wondering why it took their team 9 pages of public outcry to also feel the same. & it's not even an "internal cooldown", as i said before my char gets locked out of any other skill use or attacks for 1.2 seconds afterward. Would be interesting to get some sort of explanation as to how and why this sort of fix got any approval at all.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Well , i still have time till i need to pay up my sub again , if this is not fixed by then , im out.

This is my thoughts exactly.

Sev

It's like a combined silence and disarm. It's not just locking you out of using Biting Jabs again, you can't use anything. Can't heal, can't use weapon attacks, nothing.

If the intention really was to nerf Biting Jabs, this is just about the absolute worst way to go about it and I can't fathom why you'd do this instead of reducing the damage or upping the cost.

If the intention was to impede bots, someone needs to be shown the door because that's the dumbest idea in a long, sad history of dumb ideas.

Oevaag_Bur

Damn, there was me thinking the servers were lagging or something. Was wondering why I couldn't use any other skills after jabs

Truly hope they revert this. I did not enjoy this playstyle today in the slightest.

TicToc

Seriously? Was this fix put in place because bots are using templars to take out bosses, or something? It makes no sense. Templars are already lacking in several areas, and bitings jabs was far from OP. Other classes can take out MoBs quicker and don't have to enter melee range to do it, plus they have far more utility.

And what is this about "internal cooldowns" when there was so much made about how there were no cool downs. Apparently what we have are stealth cooldowns. They are there but we just don't see them....but we do feel them.

Even if there was an issue, which there wasn't, why would you nearly triple the cooldown time? This was a terrible nerf and completely unjustified.

gurluasb16_ESO

Really? Increase the resource cost? I don't know if you know this but... Magicka is hard to come by! and the best you can get is roughly 92 or so magicka regen, meaning 40 magicka per second. With all of my skills using Magicka. Don't make them cost more!!

Dev

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

Jessica,
What is the definition of 'slightly'? are we talking 10 extra MP or a hundred? Also how far away is this next patch considering you guys basically broke my character build?

Seriously do you have any idea how annoying it is after tolerating all the exploits and broken quests, to go from being able to take on 3 mobs of equal level and reliably win to getting face rolled on one or two!

I understand that there is a certain sense of balance desired for the game, but really are there not more important things to worry about?

How about balancing out the VR xp for those below 10 so we can catch up to those who used the exploits, or balance out the legendary boost mats so we can have decent gear like all the dupers, or balancing out the gold so mobs give more then just one piece, or any of the other seriously broken things in this game?

I have played MMOs for a good number of years and I have yet to see a company actually achieve a balance. it is impossible to make two distinct classes equal. If you want to keep 'adjusting' abilities, then can you make it so we can take a quest or something to learn them from other classes? An example would be a multi quest story arc where I can slowly learn how to summon a daedric monster, with learning the actual skill line for the final reward.

This way when a skill line gets hosed over (cough like the ninja nerf today...) we can have a plan B or something...

Also please keep in mind a perpetual balancing process will eventually *** everyone off so that no one wants to play this game. We as players chose abilities and classes based on what we see at lower level. After we spend all this time getting to where we want it, going and changing it all is annoying.

As a mostly solo player, which was one of the ways we are supposedly 'allowed' to play, there really are only a few abilities that are useful.

Is it the desire of ZOS so that Templars can only heal or something?
Because if it is, then put in a way to change class or give me back my money for the imperial edition and the 6 month prepay so I can give it to your competition. I want to be entertained in the video games I purchase, not ninja nerfed into being unable to do anything.

Do not sell me a game where I can play as I want then tell me what I am supposed to be...

RangerChad

The delay at the end also causes you to waste your ultimate if you try to use it afterwards. It will spend all the ultimate and nothing will happen... 100% accuracy so far I have seen.

I have not seen any reason to nerf the one very useful skill that can keep you alive in VR zones. The low-mid tier DPS and the ok crowd control was just barely capable of doing anything against 3 or more mobs. (3 was the safest cutting point to take on and still take considerable risks) Now 2 mobs is more than enough and it seems even more risky than doing 3 mobs pre-patch since you can no longer do any form of feasible reaction after biting jabs. I've tried other skills, I have tried stacking my defense through the roof to tank some of the damage that I cannot mitigate from the delay, I have tried to keep range but then you end up using all your resources before killing anything and end up being dead anyway. Every quest requires you have a decent crowd control build, you took that one mediocre crowd control skill and broke it.

Dev

tplink3r1 wrote: »

bots are using templars, remove templars from the game.
devs logic.

Actually my logic is if ZOS keeps screwing this game over with knee jerk responses and ninja fixes, remove our cash from their input stream.

Oh.. you meant the different Dev's logic.. my bad.

bean19

Has there been a dev response to either of these questions:

1. Will the other morph of Puncturing Strikes also get an additional resource cost?; and

2. Will templars have this skill point investment removed? I can't afford to respec my Veteran 3 templar right now. I just did so last week and it was 12,000 gold. I love the additional crit on Biting Jabs but I'd use the other one if it is lower resource cost as I'm already stacking crit.

by_saidoeb17_ESO

I feel sad because I love that game but right now the combat is so clunky and unresponsive that after some minutes playing I only want to close the game and unistall

Mortosk

by_saidoeb17_ESO wrote: »

I feel sad because I love that game but right now the combat is so clunky and unresponsive that after some minutes playing I only want to close the game and unistall

I'm leveling provisioning on one of my mules. It's boring as hell, but 10x better than playing my templar after this derp patch.

Hopefully by the time it's 50 they'll have this fixed, but I'm not holding my breath. I fully expect that when they do fix it, there will still be some kind of delay that wasn't there before, or they'll double the magicka cost.

They'll find some way to screw it up I'm sure. But, as long as it is back to the way it was before my subscription renews, I'm cool. If not, I'm reluctantly going to find another game to play.

Targos

Logged into my tank templar yesterday with high expectations. My first impression was that I had some lag (its patch day, servers must be busy), boy I was wrong. Almost died to a VR6 wisp after emptying almost all my mana and stamina, then I knew something was wrong and came over to check forums only to find this topic.

I already felt that Templars were too weak in comparisson with ranged classes, I was ok with it as I knew we ought to get balanced some day. Guess I wasn't expecting a nerf on my two most used abilities (Bash seems to hit for way less now, but need to confirm this) *.

* According to CLS, my damages come from:

[1. Bash] [2. Biting Jabs] [3. Storm Damage (weapon enchant)]

My choice of skills for solo might not be that great anyways (slow as hell but I do not mind): Biting Jabs | Honor the Dead | Channeled Focus | Repetance | Evil Hunter/Power Slam depending on enemy type.

Dev wrote: »

As a mostly solo player, which was one of the ways we are supposedly 'allowed' to play, there really are only a few abilities that are useful.

Just a though on this.

Well, I purchased this game to play with some friends and chose to roll a templar tank because it suited our group. However, due to how phasing works in ESO, we ended up screwed in most quests and some left for another game or do not play that often.

So, with grouping screwed, all I had left was to solo play from level 30 to VR 10 (except the occasional public/dungeon). Now they release Craglorn, which is radically different, as they are forcing players to group/quit/roll another character if you do want to keep playing .

1-VR10 (forced to solo) vs Craglorn (forced to group or the above)

Is it me or something it's not working here.

Ragenekton

Pls guys. Fix this asap. Lvling my templar(clotharmor) is a pain in the ass now...
A 1.2 second selfstun/selfsilence after biting jabs is horrible and selfdestroying.
Think iam going to play my tank till that.

madangrypally

This will be driving more and more Templars from game. If this is not fixed in next patch im out. There are OP Dragonknight and Sorcs abilities that are fine but the underpowered Templars are the ones hit with nerfs.

chriswang927ub17_ESO

put your complain into action. i canceled my subscription, asked them to change my paid three month in to one month and asked for the refund on price difference. i told them i will resub once the class is playable again as a melee role.