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Should add-ons be allowed?
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dietlime✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Basically I think the API is fine except it shouldn't be able to see the location of shards, lore books, and resource nodes. That's cheating. You should have to look that information up if you want to cheat that way; being able to see all of that in-game instantly is very cheap and sorta lame.
It also discourages naturally discovering the shards and books, which exploration and natural discovery are the two most fun things about this game.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Basically, addons are fine the way they are considering they can not be used to bot/fly/"wallhack"/teleport.
But the sky is falling. Clearly the restricted API is what's responsible for the current infestation of bots!
Still amazes me how people confused addons with mods and think that addons have anything to do with the bots. Mind boggling.
The ability to paint every resource node's potential position DOES need to be removed. Aside from being nearly cheating when you're using it manually, this is part of how the bots farming nodes are able to operate.
This coincides with my information. From what I have read, many add-ons assist and evolve into full blown bots.Edited by Jeremy on 22 May 2014 14:420 -
kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Why are you supporting the delegation of these functions over to the add-on community?
The multitude of successful open source projects prove that community based efforts work well to replace or augment commercial options.
Elder Scrolls games are a great example. See Skyrim Nexus.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Why are you supporting the delegation of these functions over to the add-on community?
The multitude of successful open source projects prove that community based efforts work well to replace or augment commercial options.
Elder Scrolls games are a great example. See Skyrim Nexus.
But that's not what the post I was responding to said.
It clearly stated that it is always better for the game company to include these features. That is something I agree with and why I was asking Jessie that question you quoted.
If you feel the add-on community as it has been called is the better solution for these kind of improvements then you are welcome to that belief. I disagree for all the previous reasons I have listed. But that's fine. People often-times disagree. ^^Edited by Jeremy on 22 May 2014 15:040 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Basically, addons are fine the way they are considering they can not be used to bot/fly/"wallhack"/teleport.
But the sky is falling. Clearly the restricted API is what's responsible for the current infestation of bots!
Still amazes me how people confused addons with mods and think that addons have anything to do with the bots. Mind boggling.
The ability to paint every resource node's potential position DOES need to be removed. Aside from being nearly cheating when you're using it manually, this is part of how the bots farming nodes are able to operate.
You do understand that you have to locate and harvest that node prior to it appearing on your map. It also doesn't tell you if the node is spawned or not, so you can run to the spot on your mini-map and nothing be there. It is no different than adding the pin to the map yourself after each and every harvest, just faster.
What's mind boggling is that you believe bots are using a harvesting addon to locate nodes rather than say input exact xyz coordinates into their automating program of choice and letting the program fly/teleport/speedrun/clip them from node to node.
Bots don't run addons. Bots are run with third party programs that automate the input of keystrokes and use pixel detection to interact with object and activate abilities.
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dietlime✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.The bots using the addons check every possible node, harvesting the available ones. They are using the addons to get those XYZ coordinates.
There's no reason you should be able to see a potential spawn point. If that were the case, there would be a translucent version of every un-spawned node so players could see where things would appear.
It's not intended game design and wouldn't hurt honest players to remove the ability to see node locations.
If it's such a small thing, why does it bother certain specific people so much when I suggest it should be removed? Nobody in any of my guilds uses it: for the reasons you mentioned. Resource / shard / lore book node location addons are a way of cheating, period.
It got overlooked, that doesn't make it not cheating. There's a difference between reading a guide and having that piece of the triforce highlighted with a ground arrow leading you to it in the game.Edited by dietlime on 22 May 2014 15:120 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.*sigh* Addons do not enable bots. Third-party software does that, sometimes by tricking the client (like the case of the flying/teleporting/speedhacking bots).
And you cannot get hacked from simply downloading an addon. If you do somehow get a keylogger/virus on an addon site I suggest you only visit trusted addon sites such as ESOUI or curse. But the fact is that you are just as likely to get infected from visiting any number of sites that have nothing to do with addons or eso for that matter.2 -
Saerydoth✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Absolutely. A customizable UI is pretty much necessary for an MMO's success. Btw, people are confusing "addons" with "third party software", and they are not the same. Addons are written in Lua, and they work within a very restricted system. They can only do what Zenimax has specifically allowed them to do.
Bots and stuff like that are NOT addons. Asbolutely nothing in the addon system would allow you to bot.2 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Basically I think the API is fine except it shouldn't be able to see the location of shards, lore books, and resource nodes. That's cheating. You should have to look that information up if you want to cheat that way; being able to see all of that in-game instantly is very cheap and sorta lame.
It also discourages naturally discovering the shards and books, which exploration and natural discovery are the two most fun things about this game.
"exploration and natural discovery are the two most fun things about this game" FOR YOU.
On my first character I manually found each and every skyshard and lorebook all the way to VR3 at which point the character became unplayable for about a week due the "bye-bye skillpoints" bug. During that week I rerolled and didn't want to find all those skyshards/lorebooks again, so I used the addons. It's not cheating, it's just lazy.2 -
Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Definitely need addons. The devs left so much out that if we didn't have addons then things would be bad especially the guild stores and absolutely NO way to search for anything.
I have yet to find an addon that allows us to cheat. Using addons like "Undiscovered" is not a cheat just a way for me to know what I missed. I like making sure I get everything.
I do think they should release the program for us to make our own dungeons and maps. That would be fun.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Blackwolfe5 wrote: »And you cannot get hacked from simply downloading an addon. If you do somehow get a keylogger/virus on an addon site I suggest you only visit trusted addon sites such as ESOUI or curse. But the fact is that you are just as likely to get infected from visiting any number of sites that have nothing to do with addons or eso for that matter.
Which is exactly why games should not encourage you to visit other sites to obtain add-ons to play their game. Because there a lot of keylogger/viruses out there and a lot of players do not want to take the risk of going to unfamiliar sites to download these addons. And they should not be penalized by suffering gameplay disadvantages because of that.
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DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Remove them they are destroying the game1 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »Basically I think the API is fine except it shouldn't be able to see the location of shards, lore books, and resource nodes. That's cheating. You should have to look that information up if you want to cheat that way; being able to see all of that in-game instantly is very cheap and sorta lame.
It also discourages naturally discovering the shards and books, which exploration and natural discovery are the two most fun things about this game.
"exploration and natural discovery are the two most fun things about this game" FOR YOU.
On my first character I manually found each and every skyshard and lorebook all the way to VR3 at which point the character became unplayable for about a week due the "bye-bye skillpoints" bug. During that week I rerolled and didn't want to find all those skyshards/lorebooks again, so I used the addons. It's not cheating, it's just lazy.
Again, nobody honest here is offended by removing the location of un-spawned nodes... I've checked out the bot programs. One of them operates by gleaning the node locations from an addon.
It doesn't offer anything to normal players. Like you said, using it manually barely even works because it shows every potential node.1 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.The bots using the addons check every possible node, harvesting the available ones. They are using the addons to get those XYZ coordinates.
There's no reason you should be able to see a potential spawn point. If that were the case, there would be a translucent version of every un-spawned node so players could see where things would appear.
It's not intended game design and wouldn't hurt honest players to remove the ability to see node locations.
If it's such a small thing, why does it bother certain specific people so much when I suggest it should be removed? Nobody in any of my guilds uses it: for the reasons you mentioned. Resource / shard / lore book node location addons are a way of cheating, period.
It got overlooked, that doesn't make it not cheating. There's a difference between reading a guide and having that piece of the triforce highlighted with a ground arrow leading you to it in the game.
No. Botters don't use addons to discover node locations. The xyz coords of all the nodes are located in the game data. The only thing stored server side is whether or not that node is spawned. A bot does not need to run addons to know these locations.1 -
dr_zed✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.I would normaly say no, but this game is SO incomplete it NEEDS addons.2
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dietlime✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.You could still be lazy and look up the location of all of those manually like every game throughout history. Not sure why you need to go even farther and literally highlight things in-game.
Otherwise UI customization is awesome.0 -
zeuseason✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Yes they should be allowed....why? Because I love my UI right now with big thanks to the addon developers. I don't like the stock UI.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Absolutely. A customizable UI is pretty much necessary for an MMO's success. Btw, people are confusing "addons" with "third party software", and they are not the same. Addons are written in Lua, and they work within a very restricted system. They can only do what Zenimax has specifically allowed them to do.
Bots and stuff like that are NOT addons. Asbolutely nothing in the addon system would allow you to bot.
Many games have customizable UI without allowing the use of addons.
It's possible there may be some confusion here. But it's warranted, as I have read article after article discussing how addons are used to help create bots on ESO.
Edited by Jeremy on 22 May 2014 15:222 -
PhoenixWing✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.One great feature that only add-ons can do is to customize your UI.
It's not possible to ask Zenimax to have in-game options to select nearly limitless UIs like there currently are right now (although more than half of the add-on users now use TFC, but that's not the point).
P.S. Please don't ask "what if they let users upload their own HP/Magicka bar images?", because that will make it one step closer to the add-ons... and the debate will become unclear lol.
Edit: sorry I just saw your comments on the UI after I wrote this
Edited by PhoenixWing on 22 May 2014 15:30Phoenixwing (NA): High Elf Aldmeri Dominion Sorcerer who love PvP!0 -
Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Not only should addons be allowed, but they are actually completely necessary. I might change my mind if Zenimax would have better interfaces for the bank and guild stores, more robust searching, better control and customization of the ui in general, more notification options, and so on. Addons are really the only reason why I gave Zeni a pass on a lot of the weaknesses in the game, because addons have at least partly filled in some of the gaps between what the game is and what it should be.
As far as cheating and exploits are concerned, those are certainly legitimate worries. But the cap has been removed from the toothpaste and the toothpaste is out of the tube. No one is going to try to stuff it back in now. So it's ridiculous to even ask the question. Better you should worry about how to detect and prevent it USING addons than requesting that addons be removed from the game. That's just crazy talk and if that ever happens, I'll eat Bart Simpson's shorts. There's some things that are just not logical at all, and thinking that addons can go away now that they exist, is not one of them. MAybe they can be limited, but they aren't going away.Edited by grahamz1b14_ESO on 22 May 2014 15:310 -
stabbykitteh✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.It's possible there may be some confusion here. But it's warranted, as I have read article after article discussing how addons are used to help create bots on ESO.
I'd like to read that article (edit: sorry, those articles). Do you have a link(s)?
Edited by stabbykitteh on 22 May 2014 15:320 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Absolutely. A customizable UI is pretty much necessary for an MMO's success. Btw, people are confusing "addons" with "third party software", and they are not the same. Addons are written in Lua, and they work within a very restricted system. They can only do what Zenimax has specifically allowed them to do.
Bots and stuff like that are NOT addons. Asbolutely nothing in the addon system would allow you to bot.
Many games have customizable UI without allowing the use of addons.
It's possible there may be some confusion here. But it's warranted, as I have read article after article discussing how addons are used to help create bots on ESO.
Please link those articles, because all of the ones I have seen regarding the topic have little to no concept of coding in general.
The bots you see flying/teleporting/clipping/speed hacking in game are taking advantage of client side trust. (No, not the API)
Maybe some of these got coords from people sharing harvestmap files. However someone still had to do the initial leg work. The addon doesn't just automatically know where the nodes are, and it sure doesn't know when it's available.1 -
liquid_wolf✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.david271749 wrote: »Please state why you voted yes or no below.
The developers are limited in time and ability.
Addons help guide developers in the direction their playerbase wants to go, and alerts them to any glaring problems with the designs.
Addons are ALWAYS a must for an MMORPG that wants to streamline development, and get a better grasp on customer feedback.
In an ideal world, they wouldn't be needed... but this is the real world, and I always support keeping addons in.
Whatever drawbacks they might have, are outweighed by the feedback, and information they provide to the company.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.stabbykitteh wrote: »
Here is a quick cut and paste from an article in Eso WIki I was reading a few minutes ago.
Addons have been a topic of controversy since the early days of MMORPG’s that has continued to this day. A controversy that Elder Scrolls Online is unlikely to avoid. From simple UI changes to gameplay tips and even full-blown bots, both players and developers have had a love/hate relationship with addons. Some types of addons end up banned while others are integrated into the game by the developers.
Articles such as this certainly give the impression addons can be used to create bots and other cheats. So as I said, if there is some confusion here it's warranted.
Edited by Jeremy on 22 May 2014 15:421 -
Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.My favorite addon above all is CombatCloud. I love seeing the damage I'm creating and the xp I receive flashed on the screen. ESO didn't give that to us so my thanks to the person who created that one.1
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Reignskream✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.I feel like im back in beta reading all of this. As it gets nowhere and is the same discussion, over and over and over again.1 -
Innocente✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Heh. This game would REALLY suck without add-ons. Since the developers are amateurs and really have had no clue as to how to make an effective MMO UI.0
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Singular✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.No!
Information should be hidden! None of us should know how little xp we get from public dungeon mobs. We should never know precisely when our magica/stamina/health drop too low.
Hide that stuff. It's grotesque, like cute, in great shape, female model nudity!! Who wants to look at perfect little breasts?!?
Blach!Edited by Singular on 22 May 2014 15:41War, give me war, give me war.0
