Should add-ons be allowed?

Bromburak

Some Addons are useful, but i don't trust the platforms for downloading them because hackers use those sites as well and any download could come with a lot of crap. Unfortunately its a well known fact in gaming industry that gold and bot hackers try everything to get any details from players and those platforms can actually be a great source. No matter if ESOUI , curse etc. they cannot really assure you, that downloading the content is clean.

Darlantan

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Darlantan wrote: »

First : ESO is not WoW

Blackwidow wrote: »

He never said it was. He was just using an example.

It does not change the fact. i could use any example from another game to prove a point but it does mean it apply to ESO.

Darlantan wrote: »

Two : So because some people can't troubleshoot we should not be allowed to have addon?

Blackwidow wrote: »

That is not what he said. He would just rather they come dirctly from ZOS, so there is real support behind the programming.

Sorry, it does not sound like what he say.

Anyway, even if the addon came from ESO directly, do you think they would know what exactly is causing you some trouble to you and not to the other players. I mean do you think because they work for ESO they will magically know everything you have on your computer that might be affecting the game?

I had one addon causing me trouble. I read the post related to that addon and i choose to delete it (i tested first to confirm it was the addon in question the root of my trouble). Took me 5 min to do all that and 0 min for ESO to troubleshoot or fix in the game because the bug was not caused by the game or something they added to it.

Darlantan wrote: »

What addon give you an advantage over another one in ESO?

Blackwidow wrote: »

Are you asking what addon gives a player an advantage over an player with no addon?

Yes and not...

If i use an addon, what are those advantage you are talking about?

Also, if i have such an advantage, what addon do give us that advantage, what addon is it that make us god among mortal since you seem to imply that by using them force the other player to use it? What name does that or those addon have?

cliveklgb14_ESO

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Blackwidow wrote: »

Agree to disagree.

Funny how whenever someone backs you into a corner with the facts you say this.

And I did not say you don't get to decide what is your opinion.

I said you don't get to decide what the game companies say is cheating, they do. They have the final say, period, and they don't agree with you.

Sorry, I accused you of dishonesty, the fact was actually you just have really poor reading comprehension.

And for someone who told me to let it go, you sure are still arguing the same points over and over with others.

Take your own advice. Let it go already.

KerinKor

Blackwidow wrote: »

Also, some addons do blatantly let players cheat.

Examples please, assertions not backed up by facts are worthless.

Given add-ons only use features that ZOS make available it seems unlikely ZOS have created an add-on system that allows what you're claiming.

Soloeus

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

hell, about 4/5 of the addons should already be in the vanilla game anyway.

rotiferuk

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Without add-ons there would be no Skywind (porting Morrowind into Skyrim engine) project. So yes, add-ons should be allowed. They are part and parcel of ES games. BTW, you are not being forced to use them and they do not allow cheating.

wsvdyk

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Blackwidow wrote: »

There should not be a need for addons.

Lazy lazy ZOS.

Also, some addons do blatantly let players cheat.

I do agree with you, still I vote yes. this is only for those spammers that I hate in most MMO (wildstar what I have heard don't have them)

Synfaer

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

(wildstar what I have heard don't have them)

Just wait until it launches and warm up your ignore button.

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

Funny how whenever someone backs you into a corner with the facts you say this.

I say that when it is clear we can not agree. It is what mature people do.

I was not backed into a corner. We were just not making headway to either side and i did not feel it was worth it to continue the point with you.

And for someone who told me to let it go, you sure are still arguing the same points over and over with others.

They seem more open minded than you.

KerinKor wrote: »

Examples please, assertions not backed up by facts are worthless.

Given add-ons only use features that ZOS make available it seems unlikely ZOS have created an add-on system that allows what you're claiming.

But they do allow cheating, at least from my point of view.

Getting tools that show hidden items in the game is a cheat.

I think ZOS allows it because you can cheat by going to a website and get the locations that way, so there is no real way to stop the information.

My personal view is, if you want to cheat, it should not be made more convenient for players with addons.

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Soloeus wrote: »

hell, about 4/5 of the addons should already be in the vanilla game anyway.

Exactly.

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Darlantan wrote: »

Anyway, even if the addon came from ESO directly, do you think they would know what exactly is causing you some trouble to you and not to the other players. I mean do you think because they work for ESO they will magically know everything you have on your computer that might be affecting the game?

No. However if the mods, or the game options, were made by ZOS, they would be responsible to fix the problem.

If a player made mod suddenly made you lose all your inventory, ZOS would not be obligated to get your stuff back, because they allow mods, but are not responsible for the problems.

If i use an addon, what are those advantage you are talking about?

Also, if i have such an advantage, what addon do give us that advantage, what addon is it that make us god among mortal since you seem to imply that by using them force the other player to use it? What name does that or those addon have?

I don't know what addons he is talking about, but addons do give players some advantage or players would not use them.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

jbfroik

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

While i don't think add ons are terrible, its a huge grey area. There is a big difference between say an add on that displays party health percentages and an add on that locates chests or materials. It really has to be firmly lined out in the ToS so people even know if what they are doing is illegal. That is my main concern along with the fact that it encourages the type of behavior that would start people macroing and multi-boxing etc. People will rationalize it all day long, but if you use an add on to help you heal in pvp then why can't i make a macro so my skills are used perfectly every time on time. This is why i think a strict zero tolerance policy should be taken in regards to anything being added on.

Pixie123

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

I meant to vote yes ... Accidentally posted no >< cant change it now ... Soooo Yes i mean yes!!!!

Lovely

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

I doubt anyone who has played either TES or MMOs could say NO to addons.

AlexDougherty

I wanted to Vote that I don't care, because I don't.
I don't use addons, but I'm not bothered if others do.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Reignskream wrote: »

Really, this discussion? If that's how you feel, great! But i concur. Addon's are a part of MMO's, and that's all I have to say about that.

Addon's are a part of modern MMO's.

There was a time we didn't have any at all.

Some MMO's still don't allow addons.

Swampster

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Hmm, there's no "Yes they make the game bearable" option...

Addon's are needed to make the UI somewhat serviceable imo...

Cogo

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

david271749 wrote: »

Please state why you voted yes or no below.

Even though I am against every single thing that plays the game for me, for exemple the most common addon, the skyshard map...I would never use that cause it takes away the fun of finding them myself.

However. Just because I see addons one way, I dont judge others how they play. Zenimax totally support addons. So why should I be against that?

Maybe in time even someone like me finds an addon that would be useful?
Like a working search function among guild stores. I still havnt seen one that works, then breaks a few days after.

Zenimax has talked about this and might put in the feature themselves.

My point is, I might end up using some addon that does NOT play the game for me.

Blackwolfe5

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

jbfroik wrote: »

While i don't think add ons are terrible, its a huge grey area. There is a big difference between say an add on that displays party health percentages and an add on that locates chests or materials. It really has to be firmly lined out in the ToS so people even know if what they are doing is illegal. That is my main concern along with the fact that it encourages the type of behavior that would start people macroing and multi-boxing etc. People will rationalize it all day long, but if you use an add on to help you heal in pvp then why can't i make a macro so my skills are used perfectly every time on time. This is why i think a strict zero tolerance policy should be taken in regards to anything being added on.

Thankfully there is no addon that locates materials or chests for you, because it's impossible to do. The only thing they can do is to show you possible spawn locations. And while I personally hate multi-boxers myself, multi-boxing is allowed.

Also, since when is "showing skyshards on the map" playing the game for you. Addons can in no way play the game for you. The only thing it does is to show you the location.

Jeremy

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Darlantan wrote: »

It does not change the fact. i could use any example from another game to prove a point but it does mean it apply to ESO.

Like he said, I never said that specific example applied directly to Elder Scrolls. I even went out of my way to say that I doubt such an add-on for Elder Scrolls existed. I just predicted they were probably on the horizon.

But my point was there are add-ons out there that give significant advantages to players. So to suggest everyone who has concerns about cheating needs to get a life isn't fair. Because this is a real situation that has occurred in many games and is a valid concern.

Darlantan wrote: »

Sorry, it does not sound like what he say.

Anyway, even if the addon came from ESO directly, do you think they would know what exactly is causing you some trouble to you and not to the other players. I mean do you think because they work for ESO they will magically know everything you have on your computer that might be affecting the game?

I had one addon causing me trouble. I read the post related to that addon and i choose to delete it (i tested first to confirm it was the addon in question the root of my trouble). Took me 5 min to do all that and 0 min for ESO to troubleshoot or fix in the game because the bug was not caused by the game or something they added to it.

I said that they add another layer to troubleshoot. In other words: it throws more unpredictable factors into the mix that could cause bugs in the programming.

And you should know this, since you personally have used add-ons that have given you trouble according to your post. You were lucky and was able to find a post that identified the problem for you. That's why you were able to figure it out so quickly. But that may not always be the case.

Also I don' t understand why you think it's super easy for players to know when a certain add-on is causing them problems. Yet at the same time you talk about how it would be difficult for the developers of ESO to magically know everything you have on your computer even if the add-ons came directly from them.

So consider what you are saying. If it can be difficult for even the designers of the base program to identify the source of bugs, it would stand to reason players may have some difficulty figuring them out as well.

Blackwolfe5

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

I still want to know what addons there are above showing skyshards/etc (which some people consider cheating, some don't) on the map you consider giving significant advantages.

Examples, please! Not neccesarily names of specific addons, just things you think that addons can do that you consider cheating (besides skyshards/lorebooks/harvestmap)

ZeroInspiration

I'm all for addons that let you customize your UI and provide utilities such as the HarvestMap (which doesn't show you the location of a node until you have used it first) but there are other mods that do give an unfair advantage. For example, this one: nexusmods.com/elderscrollsonline/mods/44/?

It allows you to teleport for free anytime, without using a wayshrine. That is most certainly unfair to the rest who don't have the mod. Some would argue that I should download it so I can keep up, but this would be falling in WoW's logic where you are absolutely inferior if you don't have certain add-ons. Obviously, add-ons should NEVER become essential to the gameplay, they should only be complimentary to the experience.

Jeremy

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Blackwidow wrote: »

No. However if the mods, or the game options, were made by ZOS, they would be responsible to fix the problem.

If a player made mod suddenly made you lose all your inventory, ZOS would not be obligated to get your stuff back, because they allow mods, but are not responsible for the problems.

Good point.

And this is another reason I am wary about using add-ons. Because the company has no obligation to correct problems that may occur from their use.

Pele

Blackwidow wrote: »

Carnage2K4 wrote: »

Ok... so.. I'm not really seeing how thats an issue with crafting... also asking for an example, and getting an answer like "the minimap, helps with crafting" starts to make me think you don't really know what you're talking about.

Wow. I'll repeat it.

I think the minimap is a cheat. Is shows players where the nodes are for crafting materials.

There is a skill tree you can put points into that help you find these, but the minimap makes these points useless and the minmap works better than the skill line.

You don't see the connection between crafting materials and crafting?

*facepalm*

That addon doesn't show you anything. It's not a magical map that displays node locations right out of the box. It marks locations that YOU YOURSELF discover. Dear god, all this ranting about addons that let you cheat and this is what you're referring to? I had to read through pages to find out this is the so-called cheating addon? Again *facepalm*

Jeremy

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

I still want to know what addons there are above showing skyshards/etc (which some people consider cheating, some don't) on the map you consider giving significant advantages.

Examples, please! Not neccesarily names of specific addons, just things you think that addons can do that you consider cheating (besides skyshards/lorebooks/harvestmap)

I haven't looked into what kind of add-ons are currently available for Elder Scrolls because I have no intention of using them. So that's why I haven't given any specific examples to ESO directly.

But I would be careful about judging the potential of add-ons in their current state. Elder Scrolls is still a very new game. And if other games are any indicator, these types of programs are likely to become a lot more complex and advantageous as the game ages.

Regoras

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Can someone link me to an addon that allows you to "cheat"? Because none of my addons have made me any better at PvP... I'm pretty terrible.

Just sayin'

Cogo

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

jbfroik wrote: »

While i don't think add ons are terrible, its a huge grey area. There is a big difference between say an add on that displays party health percentages and an add on that locates chests or materials. It really has to be firmly lined out in the ToS so people even know if what they are doing is illegal. That is my main concern along with the fact that it encourages the type of behavior that would start people macroing and multi-boxing etc. People will rationalize it all day long, but if you use an add on to help you heal in pvp then why can't i make a macro so my skills are used perfectly every time on time. This is why i think a strict zero tolerance policy should be taken in regards to anything being added on.

Thankfully there is no addon that locates materials or chests for you, because it's impossible to do. The only thing they can do is to show you possible spawn locations. And while I personally hate multi-boxers myself, multi-boxing is allowed.

Also, since when is "showing skyshards on the map" playing the game for you. Addons can in no way play the game for you. The only thing it does is to show you the location.

The skyshard map is one if not the worst one. I simply do not understand people who wants them. Its like paying for a rolercouster ride...and dont ride.

There is another addon that bothers me. I LOVE the rare treasure maps that drops. I heard reciently that there is a site and/or addon that shows you exactly where the treasure is.

Um.....its a...um...treasure map. With a pic and X marks the spot. You want to take away that fun too? Not everyone are using these but quite alot are.....and funny enough, those people seams to whine at "bots" in the game. Not that big of a difference is it?

PhoenixWing

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

I think add-ons are quite nice if you limit the information they can use (as it is right now).

However, it seems like many posters try to use other definitions of add-ons and said they can be used to cheat. While I agree that cheating add-ons are bad, I think the intention of the OP is whether we should allow add-ons as they currently are, which I think are fine.

P.S. @ZeroInspiration‌ I think that add-on don't work anymore since the patch that stop allowing you to teleport to yourself.

link:
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info224-Jumper.html

Shanna

I'm not sure how to answer this. Back in my UO days, I remember using add-ons felt like cheating. I do find it odd that Zen is actually encouraging them (I think I've seen a post from them directing us to check them out.) My initial assumption is what I've seen others post - this is laziness on behalf of Zenimax. If they want something to be available in their game, I think they should be implementing it themselves.

Jeremy

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Pele wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Carnage2K4 wrote: »

Ok... so.. I'm not really seeing how thats an issue with crafting... also asking for an example, and getting an answer like "the minimap, helps with crafting" starts to make me think you don't really know what you're talking about.

Wow. I'll repeat it.

I think the minimap is a cheat. Is shows players where the nodes are for crafting materials.

There is a skill tree you can put points into that help you find these, but the minimap makes these points useless and the minmap works better than the skill line.

You don't see the connection between crafting materials and crafting?

*facepalm*

That addon doesn't show you anything. It's not a magical map that displays node locations right out of the box. It marks locations that YOU YOURSELF discover. Dear god, all this ranting about addons that let you cheat and this is what you're referring to? I had to read through pages to find out this is the so-called cheating addon? Again *facepalm*

Rather it's cheating or not is debatable. But it does give the player an advantage.

Being able to mark the map for node locations is a useful tool. And if there was a competition between players collecting materials I would put my money on the one who was using this add-on.