Should add-ons be allowed?

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

That isn't what I said at all. That you have to dishonestly try to play that. Says a lot about you.

WTF are you talking about now?

I said I have the right to my opinion, just like you.

I said agree to disagree.

You even quoted me---

"You can say I'm wrong and that is just fine. I think you are wrong.

Agree to disagree."

Then you said---

"Again YOU don't get to decide that. The decades acceptance by the games industry, and the games themselves do. And they say it isn't."

So, what can't I decide? I just gave my opinion. Seriously, what is up with you? Did I kill your cat?

Let it go.

I said we should agree to disagree and you still want to go on????

WTF?

Jeremy

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

magic_is_might wrote: »

Ryskim wrote: »

Because they shouldnt be needed..

What does this even mean? Unfortunately they are needed. For example, I have an add-on that adds a search bar in the guild store. Which is badly needed and left out by developers.

This is one of my issues with add-ons. They facilitate an incomplete approach to game design. Developers are tempted to leave out important conveniences that should be in the official game since there may be add-ones that accomplish it for them.

They also pressure users to download programs from websites they may not be comfortable with. Not to mention there is often bugs and program incompatibilities to deal with. So they add yet another layer to troubleshoot.

And this becomes a problem since popular add-ons can become thought of as required. Players who do not use them might be shunned or ordered to download them before they are allowed to participate. I've seen this happen many times and I don't care for it.

I appreciate this poll. But I think its wording is too narrow because there are a lot of reasons to oppose add-ons that don't include the advantages they can give players. That is only a part of why I believe add-ons ultimately do more harm than good.

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Jeremy wrote: »

magic_is_might wrote: »

Ryskim wrote: »

Because they shouldnt be needed..

What does this even mean? Unfortunately they are needed. For example, I have an add-on that adds a search bar in the guild store. Which is badly needed and left out by developers.

This is one of my issues with add-ons. They facilitate an incomplete approach to game design. Developers are tempted to leave out important conveniences that should be in the official game since there may be add-ones that accomplish it for them.

They also pressure users to download programs from websites they may not be comfortable with. Not to mention there is often bugs and program incompatibilities to deal with. So they add yet another layer to troubleshoot.

And this becomes a problem since popular add-ons can become thought of as required. Players who do not use them might be shunned or ordered to download them before they are allowed to participate. I've seen this happen many times and I don't care for it.

I appreciate this poll. But I think its wording is too narrow because there are a lot of reasons to oppose add-ons that don't include the advantages they can give players. That is only a part of why I believe add-ons ultimately do more harm than good.

/agree 100%

Dev

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Blackwidow wrote: »

magic_is_might wrote: »

Mods modify game play. Hence the name. Add-ons do not.

Wow.

Addons don't modify the game?

I don't even know what to say.....

I will try to answer this as a professional developer to give the context: add on components do not modify the game in the aspect that any and all data they can show is sent to your pc, and is visible or accessible via normal play without add ons.

IE: you get access to a map, so a mini map is nothing new. The ability to see sky shards/lore books is available online so it is not adding something that is not available.

so from that perspective, you may be looking at something that is not what the developer of the game provided but is not using abilities or data that they do not want you to have. Since they provide this data via an Application Programming Interface, they are giving us access to this level of data and have already (hopefully) limited it to topics which do not alter game play.

A mod, on the other hand is a deviation or deliberate change from what the developer wanted. Automated play for example is a mod, not an add on. The Bot programs inject data into the process (aka the game) to simulate KB or controller actions. Other types of mods would read process data which is not provided by the API so that certain things such as character boundary/location or quest stage levels are altered. Basically the mods alter the client process or send data to the server for which was not intended, aka cheating.


At the surface where you look at the basic concept that someone who does not work for ZOS is writing code for the game, they may appear the same however from the perspective of 'using data that is being authorized and provided' versus 'crafting and changing data in an unauthorized method' they are fundamentally different.


I feel they need to be allowed because ZOS did not spend the time to build them themselves. I personally would prefer to not need them, or at least not have to use so many but the reality is in 2014 I want to have a mini map, know my free inventory, damage performed to the mob and etc.

drschplatt

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Elder Scrolls base HUD, map, and interface are so horrible, I wouldn't play if they took away addons. The addons make the game both playable and enjoyable for me.

redwoodtreesprite

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

While I do use two addons, one that keeps track of my research and a provisioner one, I would rather we did not have any addon ability, as it is that that causes all the holes that the hackers exploit.

For players, I mean the hackers, not legitimate addon writers that put into the game what should have already been there. Like the guild store search addon that currently does not work due to a change in the game by the company blocking any but snail pace searching....

Shillen

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

redwoodtreesprite wrote: »

While I do use two addons, one that keeps track of my research and a provisioner one, I would rather we did not have any addon ability, as it is that that causes all the holes that the hackers exploit.

For players, I mean the hackers, not legitimate addon writers that put into the game what should have already been there. Like the guild store search addon that currently does not work due to a change in the game by the company blocking any but snail pace searching....

The add-on API has nothing to do with hackers using 3rd party programs to hack the game code.

Third party program doesn't equal add-on.

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Dev wrote: »

snip

I know what you are trying to say. The only point I was making is the terms are synonyms.

I appreciate that a lot of you think an addon is different than a mod. I'm fine with you thinking that. I'm not trying to change your mind.

I'm saying as a whole from every source I can find, the words are the same thing to most people.

I am not trying to say the addons are acting like, what you would call mods.

I am not saying they are too powerful.

I feel they need to be allowed because ZOS did not spend the time to build them themselves. I personally would prefer to not need them, or at least not have to use so many but the reality is in 2014 I want to have a mini map, know my free inventory, damage performed to the mob and etc.

/agree 100%

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

drschplatt wrote: »

Elder Scrolls base HUD, map, and interface are so horrible, I wouldn't play if they took away addons. The addons make the game both playable and enjoyable for me.

QFT.

Darlantan

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

I said yes, addon are a good addition to the game...

It's also sad to see some people that think that the without addon the game would not have bot or cheaters... Lots of MMO do not allow addon and it did not stop bot or cheaters in those game.

People that use addon are not cheaters... If they use an addon that allow them to cheat i do not really think it's an addon. Aslo people that say addon are causing players trouble... geez get a life please... If it's causing you trouble (bug, slow down, lag) you stop using it ain't hard...

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Darlantan wrote: »

Or that people that use addon are cheaters... geez get a life please and if an addon is you causing trouble (bug, slow down, lag) you stop using it it ain't hard...

I don't think anyone said people that use addons are cheaters.

I do think some addons are cheats, but most are not.

magic_is_might

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Blackwidow wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

snip

I know what you are trying to say. The only point I was making is the terms are synonyms.

I appreciate that a lot of you think an addon is different than a mod. I'm fine with you thinking that. I'm not trying to change your mind.

I'm saying as a whole from every source I can find, the words are the same thing to most people.

I am not trying to say the addons are acting like, what you would call mods.

I am not saying they are too powerful.

I feel they need to be allowed because ZOS did not spend the time to build them themselves. I personally would prefer to not need them, or at least not have to use so many but the reality is in 2014 I want to have a mini map, know my free inventory, damage performed to the mob and etc.

/agree 100%

Again, you're ignoring the most important part. Great, you can find places online where the 2 words are synonymous. For the sake of the forum, and when we talk about cheats/hacking and things that are allowed, they are different. When we refer to a mod, we are referring to something that alters gameplay in a way that the developers did not want. An add-on is an extention. And it's something the developers support. You are being deliberately dense and refuse to see that they are different in this context. No one cares what an online dictionary says. That's not the point.

I don't care if they're synonyms on random online sources. They mean 2 different things in this context and you're just wanting to get technical like it makes a difference. Hint: This has zero bearing on your argument and doesn't support what you're saying. It's just pointless rabble disguised as something intelligent,

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

magic_is_might wrote: »

Again, you're ignoring the most important part. Great, you can find places online where the 2 words are synonymous. For the sake of the forum, and when we talk about cheats/hacking and things that are allowed, they are different. When we refer to a mod, we are referring to something that alters gameplay in a way that the developers did not want. An add-on is an extention. And it's something the developers support.

No, I said I understand where you are coming from. I also said I agree that the addons are not acting like what you would call a mod.

I also said i don't think the addons are too powerful.

So, what am I missing?

You are being deliberately dense and refuse to see that they are different in this context. No one cares what an online dictionary says. That's not the point.

I acknowledged that you guys use the term differently than me many times. I know what you mean by mod and i have said as much.

If I am still missing something, I promise, this is not dense on purpose, I am really missing your point.

I don't care if they're synonyms on random online sources. They mean 2 different things in this context and you're just wanting to get technical like it makes a difference. Hint: This has zero bearing on your argument and doesn't support what you're saying.

First, it was it's own point and nothing to do with the main point.

Second, what do you think I am saying?

Jeremy

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Darlantan wrote: »

I said yes, addon are a good ad dition to the game...

It's also sad to see some people that think that the without addon the game would not have bot or cheaters... Lots of MMO do not allow addon and it did not stop bot or cheaters.

Or that people that use addon are cheaters... geez get a life please and if an addon is causing trouble (bug, slow down, lag) you stop using it it ain't hard...
It's also sad to see some people that think that the without addon the game would not have bot or cheaters... Lots of MMO do not allow addon and it did not stop bot or cheaters in those games.

Or that people that use addon are cheaters... geez get a life please and if an addon is you causing trouble (bug, slow down, lag) you stop using it it ain't hard...

You may not know it's the add-on causing the bug, slow down, or lag.

And some add-ons do give players significant advantages over others.

We could argue the semantics over rather it's technically cheating or not. But as an example: there were some add-ons on WoW that allowed players to detect when certain spells were being cast and automatically target them for interrupts. I doubt there is anything like this out for Elder Scrolls yet. But they are probably on the horizon.

So I don't think it's a matter of people needing to get a life. It's just that some players don't want to feel compelled to download programs from outside sources to be on an even playing field.

Carnage2K4

Blackwidow wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

snip

I know what you are trying to say. The only point I was making is the terms are synonyms.

Then your point is wrong... it's that easy.

Add-on is a software component that adds a specific feature to an existing software application

Modification is the alteration of the program code of a video game in order to make it operate in a manner different from its original version.

Synonym is a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language.

"Addition" and "Alteration" are not synonyms, if you think they are, you don;t know what a synonym is.

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Carnage2K4 wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

snip

I know what you are trying to say. The only point I was making is the terms are synonyms.

Then your point is wrong... it's that easy.

Agree to disagree.

http://www.techdictionary.com/search_action.lasso

mod
modify; (to mod) to alter or customize a commercial product (usually computer related) with the intent of enhancing performance or appearance.

Add-on is a software component that adds a specific feature to an existing software application

Modification is the alteration of the program code of a video game in order to make it operate in a manner different from its original version.

Those are one definition.

There are apparently many definitions.

Thing is, everytime I go to tech sites, they disagree with you.

Now if there is some official tech site definition you want to link to me, i would be more than happy to read it.

Otherwise it is just your opinion, vs everything I have read online.

Synonym is a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language.

I am well aware.

Amsel_McKay

I use a lot of addons that I think make the game more enjoyable and some people see that as cheating... but the skyshard and lorebooks addon I love and dont bother anyone else. The guild store search addon is required, I'm sorry but going threw hundreds of pages to buy an item is silly! A larger mana bar and health bar help on my screen. The resource finder addon is useless to me so I removed it.

When true hackers are flying threw the sky and killing mobs underground that is game breaking and hurting others.

Why do you people who dont want addons care?

Loco_Mofo

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Jeremy wrote: »

You may not know it's the add-on causing the bug, slow down, or lag.

And some add-ons do give players significant advantages over others.

We could argue the semantics over rather it's technically cheating or not. But as an example: there were some add-ons on WoW that allowed players to detect when certain spells were being cast and automatically target them for interrupts. I doubt there is anything like this out for Elder Scrolls yet. But they are probably on the horizon.

So I don't think it's a matter of people needing to get a life. It's just that some players don't want to feel compelled to download programs from outside sources to be on an even playing field.

Never fear.

The API was gutted to prevent such add-ons from being created.

sCouraGeFire

Yes, but limited, some even more than now.

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Why do you people who don't want addons care?

Read the thread.

No seriously, most of the people who voted no are not against addons persey, they are against the idea that ZOS is not doing their job, so addons are then needed.

Avidus

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

I voted Yes.
I personally do not use mods, I am even against some of them that are out there.
ZoS are not allowing everything through the door, and they actively stop cheating mods.

My vote is because since the dawn of time The Elder Scrolls has embraced the community creations, they have given players a world and let you change it.
With an MMO modding has limits because it has to remain fair to all regardless of their choice of which mods to use and which ones they don't want.

But I think its important to allow people the ability to reshape the harmless parts of their interface to allow for a more friendly experience for themselves.

tel_los

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

wow to the argument that it give players an advantage over other is thin since if i can dl a add on so can you, just you make the choice not to add on like sous chef ai research grid and a host of others make this game more bearable so pls stop this crap about it giving player an advantage and just put it down to what it really is about you guy the (No's) just don't want them

Darlantan

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Jeremy wrote: »

Darlantan wrote: »

I said yes, addon are a good ad dition to the game...

It's also sad to see some people that think that the without addon the game would not have bot or cheaters... Lots of MMO do not allow addon and it did not stop bot or cheaters.

Or that people that use addon are cheaters... geez get a life please and if an addon is causing trouble (bug, slow down, lag) you stop using it it ain't hard...
It's also sad to see some people that think that the without addon the game would not have bot or cheaters... Lots of MMO do not allow addon and it did not stop bot or cheaters in those games.

Or that people that use addon are cheaters... geez get a life please and if an addon is you causing trouble (bug, slow down, lag) you stop using it it ain't hard...

You may not know it's the add-on causing the bug, slow down, or lag.

And some add-ons do give players significant advantages over others.

We could argue the semantics over rather it's technically cheating or not. But as an example: there were some add-ons on WoW that allowed players to detect when certain spells were being cast and automatically target them for interrupts. I doubt there is anything like this out for Elder Scrolls yet. But they are probably on the horizon.

So I don't think it's a matter of people needing to get a life. It's just that some players don't want to feel compelled to download programs from outside sources to be on an even playing field.

First : ESO is not WoW

Two : So because some people can't troubleshoot we should not be allowed to have addon?

What addon give you an advantage over another one in ESO?

Ezrith

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

I use addons for stuff like a /helm (off/on) command which should have been already in game. Also to protect the items I don't want to sell or deconstruct by mistake, the tiny info bar so I have less windows to open, my RP addon, the small minimap, the emote addon. None of my addons can even come close to cheating. They just customize my experience where Z got lazy on options..

Blackwidow

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Darlantan wrote: »

First : ESO is not WoW

He never said it was. He was just using an example.

Two : So because some people can't troubleshoot we should not be allowed to have addon?

That is not what he said. He would just rather they come dirctly from ZOS, so there is real support behind the programming.

What addon give you an advantage over another one in ESO?

Are you asking what addon gives a player an advantage over an player with no addon?

Synfaer

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

I use addons/mods to provide me a bit of extra information (such as 'research timers' mod which allows me to check the research progress without having to log every crafter character) or make some GUI interface more functional (like a quickslot mod) to make my gaming time a little more enjoyable.
Am I a cheater, an exploiter, do I gain an unfair advantage?
If a person is inclined to cheat/exploit, removing addons/mods is hardly going to change their nature, most will find an alternate way to achieve their goals.

Gwarok

No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.

Blackwidow wrote: »

There should not be a need for addons.

Lazy lazy ZOS.

Also, some addons do blatantly let players cheat.

^^^THIS^^^
Need to look no further than the Alliance Wars to find 98% of the cheaters in this game.

Synfaer

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Need to look no further than the Alliance Wars to find 98% of the cheaters in this game.

So let me clarify what you are saying, 98% of people that PvP are cheaters or inclined to cheat/exploit given the the chance?

Harleyquincey

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

Absolutely in favor of addons. Because ZeniMax could never ever please everyone at the same time. So why not go the clever way (which they did) and let players define their own UI so they can play the way they want to play?

I am playing with 51 addons currently and every single one improves my experience in one way or another. The UI is almost perfectly what I want it to be so... three thumbs up!

Catches_the_Sun

Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.

I voted yes, but I they need to be limited in a way that does not give players an advantage over other users.