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Should add-ons be allowed?
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magic_is_might✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Because they shouldnt be needed..
What does this even mean? Unfortunately they are needed. For example, I have an add-on that adds a search bar in the guild store. Which is badly needed and left out by developers.And because they allow many people to cheat.
How? I've yet to see a legit reason as to how add-ons let people cheat.Sienna Nightsky | Aldmeri Dominion | Nightblade Woodelf3 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.magic_is_might wrote: »And yet you won't acknowledge the difference or provide examples how it modifies gameplay.
It modifies the game by giving information, both in locations of hidden objects, and helpful information in combat.
Let me be very clear. Addons and mods are interchangeable words. Synonyms.
True story.
A powerful addon that auto healed you or made you invincible is still an addons, which is also a mod.
Addon: a program that modifies the game. It does not matter by how much.
Some people think like you do that mods are more powerful. Funny thing is others would argue the opposite.
Link: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVjQjR31TzHkAB4sPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZDBpbXI5BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--?qid=20080606071637AAfIXrC
Addon: An external application that automates WoW activities. (For instance an application that automatically fishes for you.
Mod: A modifaction of WoW's default presentation of information. (So a mod uses information provided by WoW but presents it in a different way.)
Edited by Blackwidow on 22 May 2014 00:435 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Blackwidow wrote: »magic_is_might wrote: »And yet you won't acknowledge the difference or provide examples how it modifies gameplay.
It modifies the game by giving information, both in locations of hidden objects, and helpful information in combat.
Let me be very clear. Addons and mods are interchangeable words. Synonyms.
True story.
A powerful addon that auto healed you or made you invincible is still an addons, which is also a mod.
Addon: a program that modifies the game. It does not matter by how much.
Some people think like you do that mods are more powerful. Funny thing is other would argue the opposite.
Link: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVjQjR31TzHkAB4sPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZDBpbXI5BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--?qid=20080606071637AAfIXrC
Addon: An external application that automates WoW activities. (For instance an application that automatically fishes for you.
Mod: A modifaction of WoW's default presentation of information. (So a mod uses information provided by WoW but presents it in a different way.)
That's why this conversation is going no where with anybody, and that's why during beta it went nowhere as well, because everybody's speculations of what addons and mods are, are very different.
That link you showed, is basically what i would believe to be completely backwards as far as how addons/mods work.Edited by Reignskream on 22 May 2014 00:443 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Using yahoo answers as your evidence? here's the thing, the guy has it backwards. I already explained what the difference is and why you're wrong, keep flailing your arms and stomping your feet if it makes you happy.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB5 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Reignskream wrote: »
That's why this conversation is going no where with anybody, and that's why during beta it went nowhere as well, because everybody's speculations of what addons and mods are, are very different.
Yes.0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Not everyone uses the same definition of mod or addon. If an external application automates fishing it is not an addon, it's called third-party software or you could even call it a fishing bot.
Also, you shouldn't trust everything you read on yahoo.2 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Using yahoo answers as your evidence?
Evidence that others think differently yes.
Proves others think differently.
BTW, I don't know if you read the whole thing, but I was also saying he was wrong as well.here's the thing, the guy has it backwards.
LOL.
I already explained what the difference is and why you're wrong, keep flailing your arms and stomping your feet if it makes you happy.
Okay, I'm just chatting with you, so no need to start being rude.
Tell you what. You show me the definition of both from a reliable source and I'll believe you.Edited by Blackwidow on 22 May 2014 00:571 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Blackwidow wrote: »Reignskream wrote: »Really, this discussion? If that's how you feel, great! But i concur.
That means you agree.
Addon's are a part of MMO's, and that's all I have to say about that.
That does not mean they should all be allowed. Some are cheats.
i agree with you
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magic_is_might✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Blackwidow wrote: »magic_is_might wrote: »And yet you won't acknowledge the difference or provide examples how it modifies gameplay.
It modifies the game by giving information, both in locations of hidden objects, and helpful information in combat.
Let me be very clear. Addons and mods are interchangeable words. Synonyms.
True story.
A powerful addon that auto healed you or made you invincible is still an addons, which is also a mod.
Addon: a program that modifies the game. It does not matter by how much.
Some people think like you do that mods are more powerful. Funny thing is other would argue the opposite.
Link: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVjQjR31TzHkAB4sPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZDBpbXI5BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--?qid=20080606071637AAfIXrC
Addon: An external application that automates WoW activities. (For instance an application that automatically fishes for you.
Mod: A modifaction of WoW's default presentation of information. (So a mod uses information provided by WoW but presents it in a different way.)
You can pull up Google and find the same info about hidden objects.
As for your examples, they automate certain activities. These type of addons I do not agree with. Addons like this I would equate to botting, which should be banned.
However, the most popular addons are for customizing UI and adding functions. Again, those do not modify anything. They add UI features and more. They do not give me more health or whatever in gameplay. This would be modifying gameplay. Oh no, I can see how much damage I'm dealing! Cheating!
Sienna Nightsky | Aldmeri Dominion | Nightblade Woodelf3 -
Loco_Mofo✭✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Are we talking about add-ons here or cheats?
Some people are very confused here it seems.5 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great."So a mod uses information provided by WoW but presents it in a different way" Wrong. the 4 addons i've downloaded for ESO have done exactly that. So how is that considered a mod?
Addon - "For instance an application that automatically fishes for you." Mods in skyrim would do that for me.
It's completely backwards.
Yeah people think differently, but clearly, addons are different from mods.
Edited by Reignskream on 22 May 2014 00:510 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.is a rock and a hard place tbh. zen wanted to attract the mmo crowd with the add ons for more subscribers and it's true we need subscribers to keep game funded and alive.0 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »is a rock and a hard place tbh. zen wanted to attract the mmo crowd with the add ons for more subscribers and it's true we need subscribers to keep game funded and alive.
It's an MMO, they would have had addons regardless.0 -
All this ZoS is lazy talk is WoW fanboi nonsense. The Elder Scrolls franchise is known for it's less is more approach to gaming. It's also known for relying on their community for addons and mods. Why should ESO be any different? The simplicity of the ui is one of the selling points of the game. If you want it to look like WoW, then you need to rely on addons. Granted there are one or two things that should've come with the game, better guild store search comes to mind, but overall ZoS did a nice job keeping with the spirit of the Elder Scrolls franchise.
Of course addons should be allowed.5 -
magic_is_might✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Are we talking about add-ons here or cheats?
Some people are very confused here it seems.
Careful, apparently being able to move around your healthbar on screen or adding filter functions for your inventory is cheating
Reignskream wrote: »"So a mod uses information provided by WoW but presents it in a different way" Wrong. the 4 addons i've downloaded for ESO have done exactly that. So how is that considered a mod?
Addon - "For instance an application that automatically fishes for you." Mods in skyrim would do that for me.
It's completely backwards.
Yeah people think differently, but clearly, addons are different from mods.
Yeah, this example is backward...Addon: An external application that automates WoW activities. (For instance an application that automatically fishes for you.
Well, the first mistake is defining an add-on as something that is solely used for automation. Automation is more or less botting. And again, bots should be banned.Edited by magic_is_might on 22 May 2014 00:55Sienna Nightsky | Aldmeri Dominion | Nightblade Woodelf2 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.magic_is_might wrote: »Are we talking about add-ons here or cheats?
Some people are very confused here it seems.
Careful, apparently being able to move around your healthbar on screen or adding filter functions for your inventory is cheatingReignskream wrote: »"So a mod uses information provided by WoW but presents it in a different way" Wrong. the 4 addons i've downloaded for ESO have done exactly that. So how is that considered a mod?
Addon - "For instance an application that automatically fishes for you." Mods in skyrim would do that for me.
It's completely backwards.
Yeah people think differently, but clearly, addons are different from mods.
Yeah, this example is backward...Addon: An external application that automates WoW activities. (For instance an application that automatically fishes for you.
Well, the first mistake is defining an add-on as something that is solely used for automation.
I made that example backwards to show how backwards that link was he showed us, rofl. Wow this is getting confusing, or am i confused? Oh my..Edited by Reignskream on 22 May 2014 00:560 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.magic_is_might wrote: »You can pull up Google and find the same info about hidden objects.
True.
That is also cheating.However, the most popular addons are for customizing UI and adding functions. Again, those do not modify anything.
I don't want to split hairs.
Customizing UI is a modification to the UI. That is just a fact.
You say it does not modify anything, while still saying it modifies the GUI and modifies the game while adding functions.
Look, you might think I'm saying something I'm not. I have no clue. I'm saying modify is to change, like the dictionary says.
You might mean something completely different.They add UI features and more. They do not give me more health or whatever in gameplay. This would be modifying gameplay. Oh no, I can see how much damage I'm dealing! Cheating!
Addon and mod are the same thing.
I know your point is these are not powerful addons. I do agree.
However, some are still cheats.
Edited by Blackwidow on 22 May 2014 00:564 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Actually, in morrowind, oblivion and skyrim they are generally called plugins But yeah, when it comes to ESO, addons ARE NOT mods and mods ARE NOT addons.
Also, it doesn't matter worth guar dung what you consider to be mods or addons. What matters is what the developers consider to be addons.. what most mmo's with addons consider to be addons.
Also, there is a HUGE difference between modifying the UI and modifying the game systems. Addons change how the information is presented. Mods (or the common name for them in the singleplayer eso games, plugins) change the games systems.. which is something that cannot be done with the addon API.
Again, addons cannot be used to bot, hack, teleport or cheat (unless you call showing skyshards/lorebooks on the map cheating) I REPEAT.. ADDONS CAN NOT BE USED TO BOT.Edited by Blackwolfe5 on 22 May 2014 01:042 -
Teverus✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Elder Scrolls games and MMO's are both games that have a huge mod community. If you've never played Skyrim with mods you're simply doing it wrong and need to stop being a purist and try some awesome mods. If you assembled the Crown of Barenziah from Skyrim without a tracking mod, I salute you, but you've got to be one of like, two people on this earth.
None of the mods allow you to "cheat." Anyone who says that "Skyshard" and "Lorebook" mods are cheating are just not looking at the whole picture. Without the mods, what's the choice? You either lose out on skill points, which is game-breakingly bad of you to do and should probably get you kicked out of competitive guilds, or you use a game guide and interactive map to find them. Lorebooks are the same way if your character needs mage guild levels.
This game was built with mods in mind, I assure you. It's not cheating. There are a bunch of mods that track impossible treasure-hunting style quests in Skyrim and Oblivion as well. These are simply a convenience. The real moral crime being commited is having parts of a game that you need a guide to accomplish at all. At least now that the internet's a big thing in gaming, we don't have to run out and buy a $20 game guide, we can just download a mod (or if you're a purist you can lie to yourself that you're doing anything different and use an online game guide).Edited by Teverus on 22 May 2014 01:220 -
magic_is_might✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Reignskream wrote: »magic_is_might wrote: »Are we talking about add-ons here or cheats?
Some people are very confused here it seems.
Careful, apparently being able to move around your healthbar on screen or adding filter functions for your inventory is cheatingReignskream wrote: »"So a mod uses information provided by WoW but presents it in a different way" Wrong. the 4 addons i've downloaded for ESO have done exactly that. So how is that considered a mod?
Addon - "For instance an application that automatically fishes for you." Mods in skyrim would do that for me.
It's completely backwards.
Yeah people think differently, but clearly, addons are different from mods.
Yeah, this example is backward...Addon: An external application that automates WoW activities. (For instance an application that automatically fishes for you.
Well, the first mistake is defining an add-on as something that is solely used for automation.
I made that example backwards to show how backwards that link was he showed us, rofl. Wow this is getting confusing
Sorry, I was agreeing with you His "example" and poor Yahoo source itself is backward and incorrect in how addons and mods work. Basically it says that an addon is something (in WoW) that automates stuff. 99% of the addons in the Minion page is about customization interface and adding missing features. Not automating.
Sienna Nightsky | Aldmeri Dominion | Nightblade Woodelf0 -
ThePonzzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.Personally, I'm just surprised a lot of the data that can become visible via add-ons is even available to players. Should be based on internal access.
I think the UI add-ons are neat. Not for me. But the automation ones are the issue. I would love a better way to sort through materials without an add-on. Or to be able to search through the guild stores on crafting skill.0 -
magic_is_might✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Blackwidow wrote: »magic_is_might wrote: »You can pull up Google and find the same info about hidden objects.
True.
That is also cheating.
If googling the location of a chest or missing skyshard is your definition of cheating, then I see the issue here. My point is not that it is unfair. Because having a map that shows all skyshard locations is a bit cheap. My point is that the info for the locations of a chest is already easily accessible. They're not a secret.Sienna Nightsky | Aldmeri Dominion | Nightblade Woodelf3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.i find it ammusing you guys trying desperately to keep your cheating add-on's. but this isnt wow and eventually the es add-on community will find your cheats and you will be exposed. coming to the forums to help defend addons isnt going to help you when your busted in videos for the cheats you have that i have witnessed on utube and heard about from friends.
your days are numbered. but by all means keep on the path your on because it's only a matter of time till atleast a few are discovered. smae thing with the exploits.3 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.magic_is_might wrote: »
Careful, apparently being able to move around your healthbar on screen or adding filter functions for your inventory is cheating
Nobody said that.
If that is what you got out of this, I can see your confusion.3 -
magic_is_might✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »i find it ammusing you guys trying desperately to keep your cheating add-on's. but this isnt wow and eventually the es add-on community will find your cheats and you will be exposed. coming to the forums to help defend addons isnt going to help you when your busted in videos for the cheats you have that i have witnessed on utube and heard about from friends.
your days are numbered. but by all means keep on the path your on because it's only a matter of time till atleast a few are discovered. smae thing with the exploits.
Lol the day I stream on Youtube and get "caught" using an add-on that lets me see my research timer on-screen and called out for cheating and banned from ESO.... will never happen. Beause it's not cheating.
Sienna Nightsky | Aldmeri Dominion | Nightblade Woodelf5 -
Reignskream✭✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Blackwidow wrote: »magic_is_might wrote: »
Careful, apparently being able to move around your healthbar on screen or adding filter functions for your inventory is cheating
Nobody said that.
If that is what you got out of this, I can see your confusion.
We've clearly given you examples from links you have provided, and you still sit here and try to be all technical/debate what is solid evidence right in front of your face, using little smiley faces & snobby remarks to act elite.
When they're talking about it in video games, it is clearly two different things. Stop getting all technical behind the definitions, because you have no backbone to what your saying, you fall behind technical terms and google search.
I'm done here, as this conversation got no where in beta due to stupid things like this, and it will get no where today. Must be hell to play a video game where you think everyone is cheating. IMO I feel like your just baiting for the fun of it.
I'm going back in game, have fun.
Edited by Reignskream on 22 May 2014 01:062 -
magic_is_might✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Blackwidow wrote: »magic_is_might wrote: »
Careful, apparently being able to move around your healthbar on screen or adding filter functions for your inventory is cheating
Nobody said that.
If that is what you got out of this, I can see your confusion.
It is my point. Because these are the kind of add-ons I am defending. Not add-ons that let you exploit and cheat. I agree those should be removed. My point is that nearly all add-on users exclusively use the type of add-ons I've mentioned above. But people like you refuse to see their use and would rather decry all add-ons as cheating because omg one add-on might let you automate fishing.Edited by magic_is_might on 22 May 2014 01:07Sienna Nightsky | Aldmeri Dominion | Nightblade Woodelf4 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Yes. They're part of what makes this game great.Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »i find it ammusing you guys trying desperately to keep your cheating add-on's. but this isnt wow and eventually the es add-on community will find your cheats and you will be exposed. coming to the forums to help defend addons isnt going to help you when your busted in videos for the cheats you have that i have witnessed on utube and heard about from friends.
your days are numbered. but by all means keep on the path your on because it's only a matter of time till atleast a few are discovered. smae thing with the exploits.
Please do tell us of these terrible cheats and exploits that are in your head done with addons.5 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. They give players too many advantages/disadvantages.magic_is_might wrote: »Lol the day I stream on Youtube and get "caught" using an add-on that lets me see my research timer on-screen and called out for cheating and banned from ESO.... will never happen. Beause it's not cheating.
Yes, using examples that are clearly not cheats means there is no addon cheats.
"rolleyes"
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