redspecter23 wrote: »Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »Spoiler Alert!
Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.
so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere
Yep, it's absolutely fine. Also, I want a video. Better not be any cp or set bonuses either, because most real level 10's don't have that.
I don't have a video, but I had one nice screenshot from one of such discussions, where elite mob was unable to kill my CP810 without CP (so no low level bonuses), without gear and without abilities slotted. Enjoy: 9k HP, 0 resistances, 500 dps. Giant, creature that will one-shot level 10 character in Skyrim on default difficulty, couldn't do anything to completely naked un-buffed toon in ESO. Giant dps was 150 against zero resistances, zero CP. (8744 is minimal health possible, if I had CP allocated that number will be higher).
Not good enough. I want video of you doing it with proof that you don't have on set's, no CP allocated, no skills ect. Then I will believe you. Until I see that, all I've got is "because I said so".
Also it took you four full minutes for that one mob. 4.
That is not anywhere near what people are trying to pretend is happening.
You may see health, resistances and giant's dps in screenshot. That is more then enough to see how much of "threat" is overland. So far the only ways to die I see is either jumping from the cliff or be kicked off the server. If you at least move, you are already immortal.
If ZOS employee will confirm that they'll at least look at base game overland in terms of making it more challenging, I'll make such video, no problem.
SeaGtGruff wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »Spoiler Alert!
Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.
so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere
You should be farming those glowing portals in Craglorn.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
@redspecter23redspecter23 wrote: »Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase.
it discussed many times before - one alliance zone for beginners, two zones, three zones. But no! We have ALL ZONES including DLC and chapters for beginners. 2000+ quests according to uesp.net are for new players.
Is it fair for vet players? Or do you really think vet players deserve only "repeat this dungeon 1 billion times" content?
Fata1moose wrote: »They just need a veteran mode toggle for the overland like dungeons and trials have. That way newer players can play normally without being affected, those that want a greater challenge can play the overland on veteran. Obviously I'm simplifying it and I'd like to see more added to a veteran toggle (perhaps a survival mode).
@redspecter23redspecter23 wrote: »Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase.
it discussed many times before - one alliance zone for beginners, two zones, three zones. But no! We have ALL ZONES including DLC and chapters for beginners. 2000+ quests according to uesp.net are for new players.
Is it fair for vet players? Or do you really think vet players deserve only "repeat this dungeon 1 billion times" content?
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Dusk_Coven wrote: »Another person who hasn't tried soloing Cralorn overland portals. Or Bittergreen. Or the the Fire Monk.
There are challenges. You just don't want THOSE challenges.
Instead you want to raise the difficulty just enough that you can still win and use that to justify getting more goodies.
Veinblood1965 wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »Spoiler Alert!
Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.
so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
it has no feel of progression if anyone can go anywhere
You should be farming those glowing portals in Craglorn.
Yes those portals are super easy, great point.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.
Dusk_Coven wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.
Especially with their secret advantage of CP.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.
A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.
(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)
edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.
I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.Kiralyn2000 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.
A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.
(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)
edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.
That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.
martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »What we need is a method of choice HM & NM for those that want it
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.
I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.Kiralyn2000 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.
A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.
(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)
edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.
That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.
As long as it has the same rewards and doesn't slow down server performance for the rest of us because of too many instances - sure.
Dusk_Coven wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »What we need is a method of choice HM & NM for those that want it
White Acute.
SWTOR has this item that you can equip to turn off event double xp because apparently enough people felt that levelling too fast ruined their enjoyment.
Something similar could be done, like a "Cursed" set of monster helm/shoulder. Wear one to turn off CP, wear another to apply some kind of debuff, wear both to get both debuffs.
redspecter23 wrote: »Spoiler Alert!
Overland is supposed to be easy. It's there to get beginners hooked and satisfy a large casual playerbase. It may be easy for you, but do try to understand that there are many, MANY players who struggle in overland content. That content is not designed for you. Play it if you want, but understand that it is not there to challenge you. That's what endgame is for.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.
I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.Kiralyn2000 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.
A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.
(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)
edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.
That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.
As long as it has the same rewards and doesn't slow down server performance for the rest of us because of too many instances - sure.
There are already multiple instances, so I believe this solution won't impact performance. Great that we agree on this, now we only need ZOS to implement this
(this is how all this threads are ending usually)
If you like hard content, do the hard content.
Not every piece of content in this game needs to cater to you. It's an mmo - there are other people playing, and not everyone plays to be challenged.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Well, as long as you know which game you would find more enjoyable than ESO but refuse to play instead.
I tried it first time in my life after July patch notes. I enjoyed it so far, but I reached lvl60 and imagined amount of grind to reach level 120 and gave up. Also GAH was unbearable in comparison to ESO trading system. Actually I heard they plan to squeeze levels in new chapter, so I may gave it a shot, especially if ESO performance won't be fixed to Shadowlands release.Kiralyn2000 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »so its fine for a level 10 to be farming mobs in craglorn?
Part of that is an artifact of how One Tamriel works. It's probably 'easier' for a Lv10 than for a similarly-geared/skilled Lv50 - the lv10 has more of a "scaling" boost, which fades as you level (since, presumably, you're assigning skill points, gearing better, etc)ThePhantomThorn wrote: »i like hard content.
its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...
As with all these threads, I have a serious question: Can you please tell me a modern mainstream MMO, where the overland is challenging for skilled players, let alone "progression"/raid players?
WoW. Even in non-classic it is enough for newbie to aggro 2 mobs at once for challenge and 3 mobs at once for guaranteed death or retreat. I doubt you can find anything more casual-mass-oriented then current WoW.
Which is why I said "challenging for skilled and/or raid players" (you know, the people who keep making these threads?). Not 'newbies'.
A raid player running a new lv1, is still a skilled raid player. They're much better than an actual newbie.
(and I remember just before Summerset launch, starting a Morrowind character and seeing actual newbies in chat talking about how much they were dying.)
edit: I played WoW from vanilla through Cata. I remember when new expansions came out, and the level cap got boosted - and the raid players, in their previous-cap raid gear, plowed through the overland quests, ignoring all the quest rewards because they couldn't find any worthwhile upgrades until they reached the new cap. Because the overland had to be balanced for non-raiders, who were just leveling up through the game in quest gear.
That's why each time conclusion is that we need different instances of overland. It will be good even for newbies, because 810 CP won't storm in public dungeon wiping everything in their way and leaving newbies without bosses to kill for gear and achievement.