overland is to easy

Sylvermynx

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

"people struggle with the current overland"

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I remember during the early access days before the PC release I was in a guild with this one member who was completely overwhelmed by all combat. She had guild member crafting her sets of gear all the time. She wanted the gear with the trait that made the gear get damaged less when you die because she accepted she was just always going to die. She loved the game, but couldn't really do the questing without someone helping her. Eventually she left.

TES games appeal to a lot of people who suck at combat in games.

*raises hand* The combat in this game is meant for young people, with reflexes that approach the speed of light. That's not me.... I'll be 72 next month, and while my mind is quite good thank you, my ability to do twitchy combat left me probably 25 years or so back....

Contaminate

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

"people struggle with the current overland"

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I remember during the early access days before the PC release I was in a guild with this one member who was completely overwhelmed by all combat. She had guild member crafting her sets of gear all the time. She wanted the gear with the trait that made the gear get damaged less when you die because she accepted she was just always going to die. She loved the game, but couldn't really do the questing without someone helping her. Eventually she left.

TES games appeal to a lot of people who suck at combat in games.

*raises hand* The combat in this game is meant for young people, with reflexes that approach the speed of light. That's not me.... I'll be 72 next month, and while my mind is quite good thank you, my ability to do twitchy combat left me probably 25 years or so back....

The endgame combat is meant for good reflexes. The overland doesn’t require any reaction at all, much less “twitchy” ones.

Sylvermynx

Contaminate wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

"people struggle with the current overland"

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I remember during the early access days before the PC release I was in a guild with this one member who was completely overwhelmed by all combat. She had guild member crafting her sets of gear all the time. She wanted the gear with the trait that made the gear get damaged less when you die because she accepted she was just always going to die. She loved the game, but couldn't really do the questing without someone helping her. Eventually she left.

TES games appeal to a lot of people who suck at combat in games.

*raises hand* The combat in this game is meant for young people, with reflexes that approach the speed of light. That's not me.... I'll be 72 next month, and while my mind is quite good thank you, my ability to do twitchy combat left me probably 25 years or so back....

The endgame combat is meant for good reflexes. The overland doesn’t require any reaction at all, much less “twitchy” ones.

You might believe that, but my lack of reflexes plus satellite (only connect available to me) means that I have to be VERY careful what combat I encounter. Until you've been me, at my age, with my reflexes and my connection, you just have no clue.

Contaminate

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

"people struggle with the current overland"

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I remember during the early access days before the PC release I was in a guild with this one member who was completely overwhelmed by all combat. She had guild member crafting her sets of gear all the time. She wanted the gear with the trait that made the gear get damaged less when you die because she accepted she was just always going to die. She loved the game, but couldn't really do the questing without someone helping her. Eventually she left.

TES games appeal to a lot of people who suck at combat in games.

*raises hand* The combat in this game is meant for young people, with reflexes that approach the speed of light. That's not me.... I'll be 72 next month, and while my mind is quite good thank you, my ability to do twitchy combat left me probably 25 years or so back....

The endgame combat is meant for good reflexes. The overland doesn’t require any reaction at all, much less “twitchy” ones.

You might believe that, but my lack of reflexes plus satellite (only connect available to me) means that I have to be VERY careful what combat I encounter. Until you've been me, at my age, with my reflexes and my connection, you just have no clue.

Sorry, but a small portion of people having a bad internet connection is not a reason to make 95% of the game mindless.

I don’t need to be a mechanical engineer to know if a car is driving itself

DaveMoeDee

Contaminate wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

"people struggle with the current overland"

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I remember during the early access days before the PC release I was in a guild with this one member who was completely overwhelmed by all combat. She had guild member crafting her sets of gear all the time. She wanted the gear with the trait that made the gear get damaged less when you die because she accepted she was just always going to die. She loved the game, but couldn't really do the questing without someone helping her. Eventually she left.

TES games appeal to a lot of people who suck at combat in games.

*raises hand* The combat in this game is meant for young people, with reflexes that approach the speed of light. That's not me.... I'll be 72 next month, and while my mind is quite good thank you, my ability to do twitchy combat left me probably 25 years or so back....

The endgame combat is meant for good reflexes. The overland doesn’t require any reaction at all, much less “twitchy” ones.

Sounds like you are the expert on the experiences of all players. Keep insisting. That will make it true.

MercilessnVexed

At this time of disconnections, I would like to interject that these dc's make playing overland much moar difficult.

idk

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Overland is for all players. It has more to do with the story and there are many beginners who do not find it so easy.

Major MMORPGs today have a tiered structure of difficulty with overland being the easiest. Zos follows this design as it offers content at varied difficulty to meet everyone's desire for difficulty and does not make the open world challenging to a point it pushes new players away from the game as they are the future.

Outside of Zos pushing back on the huge DPS power creep we have had over the years I doubt they will do anything to make overland more difficult. Bad business.

That's not what the post I was responding to said. It claimed it was suppose to be for "beginners". So it sounds like you should be directing this post at him/her.

You also don't have to push the difficulty to the point it "pushes new players away". In fact: an optional veteran version of each zone (which is what I"m asking for) shouldn't even affect new players. So I don't understand your argument.

I'm also weary of this notion that adding a little more challenge to the overland would somehow make it so super hard. Currently most things die in literally a second or two. This idea that the overland difficulty can't be increased without alienating mass amounts of players and making everything so very difficult that it becomes tedious and a chore is ridiculous. Because there is a ton of middle ground here between killing something in a nanosecond and then something actually being able to live long enough to threaten you with an attack or two. Why does this forum always seem to deal in extremes one way or the other?

Also: people don't realize that it drives players away just as well when the overland content is so easy it becomes boring. You and your like-minded debatees continuously neglect that and think that no one would ever leave this game due to it being too easy. But trust me, they do (I know many of them). And that's not "good business" either. A lot of casual players like a little bit of challenge too. Not as much as hardcore raiders - I'll own. But they don't like things absurdly easy either.

If it was more about the person you quoted then thx for straightening that out.

As to the issue, those asking for more challenge in open world are wanting more than a little increase. They would ant a noticeable increase.

As for a veteran version, it is not so simple. It means that as few as two players can push the server to create two different instances of the same zone. Older zones are likely to have low pop zones which would create more work for the servers at a time we need less load. Yes, more physical servers help but there is likely a central core that ties everything together that can handle only so much.

Considering every major MMORPG I have played in probably the last decade + ( or more) has had an easy open world without a choice to make it more difficult outside of wearing weaker gear there are likely valid server design issues such as this that keep developers from implementing it. I can think of only one that has done it with instanced questing, but that is a very different scenario and much less server side work.

Contaminate

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

"people struggle with the current overland"

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I remember during the early access days before the PC release I was in a guild with this one member who was completely overwhelmed by all combat. She had guild member crafting her sets of gear all the time. She wanted the gear with the trait that made the gear get damaged less when you die because she accepted she was just always going to die. She loved the game, but couldn't really do the questing without someone helping her. Eventually she left.

TES games appeal to a lot of people who suck at combat in games.

*raises hand* The combat in this game is meant for young people, with reflexes that approach the speed of light. That's not me.... I'll be 72 next month, and while my mind is quite good thank you, my ability to do twitchy combat left me probably 25 years or so back....

The endgame combat is meant for good reflexes. The overland doesn’t require any reaction at all, much less “twitchy” ones.

Sounds like you are the expert on the experiences of all players. Keep insisting. That will make it true.

I’m an expert on my own experiences as a newbie who didn’t find any engaging content until I stumbled into Elden Hollow with an equally newbie player at level 22. Before 1T which came a bit later in my playtime, it about the proper level for the dungeon, but it was the first time I actually felt powerful because I fought enemies that were a threat. It was fun to actually overcome a challenge rather than have victory handed to me.

ESO fails at what should be basic gameplay design. If there’s no difficulty incline, and it stays at tutorial level of “difficulty” at all time in 95% of the game, and basic mechanics like blocking, dodging, and interrupting are shown to be optional systems that won’t punish you, then the game has failed to teach players anything.

ESO’s overland vs dungeons may as well be basic addition vs calculus, and ESO isn’t exactly offering the “algebra” middleground.

Contaminate

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Overland is for all players. It has more to do with the story and there are many beginners who do not find it so easy.

Major MMORPGs today have a tiered structure of difficulty with overland being the easiest. Zos follows this design as it offers content at varied difficulty to meet everyone's desire for difficulty and does not make the open world challenging to a point it pushes new players away from the game as they are the future.

Outside of Zos pushing back on the huge DPS power creep we have had over the years I doubt they will do anything to make overland more difficult. Bad business.

That's not what the post I was responding to said. It claimed it was suppose to be for "beginners". So it sounds like you should be directing this post at him/her.

You also don't have to push the difficulty to the point it "pushes new players away". In fact: an optional veteran version of each zone (which is what I"m asking for) shouldn't even affect new players. So I don't understand your argument.

I'm also weary of this notion that adding a little more challenge to the overland would somehow make it so super hard. Currently most things die in literally a second or two. This idea that the overland difficulty can't be increased without alienating mass amounts of players and making everything so very difficult that it becomes tedious and a chore is ridiculous. Because there is a ton of middle ground here between killing something in a nanosecond and then something actually being able to live long enough to threaten you with an attack or two. Why does this forum always seem to deal in extremes one way or the other?

Also: people don't realize that it drives players away just as well when the overland content is so easy it becomes boring. You and your like-minded debatees continuously neglect that and think that no one would ever leave this game due to it being too easy. But trust me, they do (I know many of them). And that's not "good business" either. A lot of casual players like a little bit of challenge too. Not as much as hardcore raiders - I'll own. But they don't like things absurdly easy either.

If it was more about the person you quoted then thx for straightening that out.

As to the issue, those asking for more challenge in open world are wanting more than a little increase. They would ant a noticeable increase.

As for a veteran version, it is not so simple. It means that as few as two players can push the server to create two different instances of the same zone. Older zones are likely to have low pop zones which would create more work for the servers at a time we need less load. Yes, more physical servers help but there is likely a central core that ties everything together that can handle only so much.

Considering every major MMORPG I have played in probably the last decade + ( or more) has had an easy open world without a choice to make it more difficult outside of wearing weaker gear there are likely valid server design issues such as this that keep developers from implementing it. I can think of only one that has done it with instanced questing, but that is a very different scenario and much less server side work.

I’d be content if “Elite” meant more than 500dps against a naked no cp toon. I’d be content if players were rightly punished for ignoring cues to block, cues to interrupt, and standing in stupid. Some of the Elsweyr bosses succeed in that, others (the tutorial dragon and necromancer first boss) are literally impossible to die against even if you try. We need more like the prologue with Sai Sahan, get out of the highly telegraphed AoEs or eat a quarter+ of your HP. It doesn’t have to be a huge jump, just enough to demand more than 5% of a player’s attention.

ZeroXFF

I just want to add in regards to old Craglorn, because people keep bringing it up with a completely backwards framing...

The issue with old Craglorn was not that it was hard, but that you needed to have multiple people with you to be able to open doors that hindered your progression through the quests.

The issue was forced grouping, not the difficulty. I was around VR6-8 when I went there, and if not for the damn doors, I would have completed it before the nerf, as a solo player with no idea about rotations or builds.

Greysson

Contaminate wrote: »

Sorry, but a small portion of people are bored top tier dps is not a reason to make 95% of the game challenging for them.

Corrected it for you.

Contaminate

Greysson wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Sorry, but a small portion of people are bored top tier dps is not a reason to make 95% of the game challenging for them.

Corrected it for you.

Lmao

It hardly takes top tier dps to light attack a boss to death

bethsheba

TLDR did anyone point out the subject title in op should be “too” not “to”

martinhpb16_ESO

Kesstryl wrote: »

I'm sick of leetists asking for overland to be made harder. I'm almost CP 800 and yeah overland is easy by now for me, and I like it that way. I do dungeons, trials, and WB when I want a challenge. When I'm farming nodes I don't want the random nix hound or other wildlife wrecking my farming with a fight to the death. I want to quickly kill it and get back to my casual crafting resource farming. I want to focus on stories when I quest without being interrupted with wipe after wipe with the end of story boss like in the old days before one Tamriel. Back then I out leveled the stories just to kill those bosses because I couldn't kill them at level. Let me enjoy the casual side of ESO without making everything this frustrating experience of making every trash mob into mini boss level difficulty. When I really want to fight, I know where the dungeons, trials, and world bosses are. I'm so sick of the elite uber gamers crying for nerfs to make the game harder. I want to actually enjoy this game sometimes. I miss class identity and some of the good stuff we used to have that made combat fun. Now all my progression has gone backwards and lately I'm not motivated to play the hard content because of all these nerfs to my toons. You want to destroy the little fun I have left with crafting furnishings and farming the stuff I need for that with your neverending need to chase adrenaline thrills? Some of us game to relax and not have nervous break downs. Sheesh.

"Leetist" is pejorative.

I feel for you when you say that you feel "You want to destroy the little fun I have left". Thats not a nice feeling.

So hopefully you can understand that for many of your fellow gamers the current situation is having the same effect for them. We feel the same way you do but for different reasons.

So rather than seeing other peoples opinions as an attack on how we want to play, how about we all support some of the excellent suggestions here that there should somehow be overland content for those that do and don't want more difficulty. After all compromise and choice are good things.

Dusk_Coven

Interesting to read what's happening at SWTOR where they nerfed companions, so that basically made all solo content harder, overland included (by "overland" there meaning the ability to do HEROIC 2+ missions). 12 pages of forum back-and-forth and counting.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=972051

vesselwiththepestle

Overland content is not only for new players or beginners. ZOS regularly releases new overland content. I think I was at CP 300 just by doing the main quest and doing Cadwell's Gold, leaving LOTS of additional quests for me and all the DLC and additional chapters.

Overland content should be fun for endgame players, too, without having to make use of work-around like no gear, no CP etc. I want to have fun by playing my characters as I build them, not by binding my hands behind my back first.

However, many actual players without CP and deeper knowledge of the game and how combat works struggle with overland content. I know I did. Even quest bosses could be a pita and I hated all those densely spread mob groups outside of the city with no horse at first and even after I got one, it wasn't fast enough and didn't have enough stamina to speed past those mobs for a loooong time. So overland content just can't be more difficult generally.

There must be done something, though. I just can't bring it over me to bother with quests when everything dies within 2 seconds. It's boring. I didn't get the last DLC, because why bother? I haven't even finished questing in Elsewhere.

I think adding Veteran versions to at least Delves and Public Dungeons is the least ZOS could do. Alternatively there could be some kind of "battle spirit" debuff. However, there needs to be some gain, too, like higher quality loot and more gold.

A story dlc with increased difficulty or at least some areas with increased difficulty like Craglorn has would be nice to have, too. I mean, after how many story DLC, wouldn't it be ok to have at least ONE new story dlc which is a bit harder than usual content?

Actually, I am not sure if it is the case for Summerset and Elsewhere, but I started this game with Morrowind release. And as a new player I realised that Morrowind overland was much harder than base game overland content. It was different in mechanics, too, for example you don't see as many charges in base game overland content like you see in Morrowind. Public Dungeons were way harder. With experience, gear and CP this doesn't matter anymore (that's why I can't honestly say if Summerset overland content is more difficulty than base game overland content, except for world bosses, which are definitely harder), but to me it proofs that there isn't "one difficulty to play it all", ZOS actually offers different difficulties. Just like DC2 is more difficult than DC1. So there already is some variance and it is mostly about how far it should reach.

Also, when I got into the game I did with some RL friends and we were eager to play together - to quest together. This didn't really felt supported and the difficulty definitely doesn't acknowledge for groups. It would be nice to have some stuff like Public Dungeons and some quests adjusted for groups, without being repetitive endgame content like dungeons and trials and daily quests in Craglorn, but something you complete and be done with it.

Mayrael

I get it some want it be easy, others want a challange and reward.

Once again I ask. Why can't we have OPTIONAL veteran versions of overland zones for people who seek for challange? Make them difficult and accordingly more rewarding, just like with vet dungs. If you don't want to or feel not in a shape to do it, just go normal.

Grianasteri

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Bring a level 10 character with NO Championship points allocated with me to Craglorn please, let me watch you take on the mobs and world bosses on your own... I guess it can be done, but some of those mobs in some of the locations can be overwhelming even for some experienced players. And the wb... nah.

However yes, overland is easy, for anyone who has a little experience or CPs etc. But the point is it needs to be to cater for the lowest possible skill levels. There are young kids playing ESO and first time mmo folk etc. Also imagine not wearing full sets or LA weaving or even having a rotation. Think about that.

The issue is that content does not scale to the individual through any process. Other games handle this issue better. Ghost Recon for instance adjusts content to the individual, even if you are playing with people on lower difficulty settings. Enemy hit you harder and you hit them weaker but its scaled and works even with others in your group. Im not saying its perfect, just that the feature exists and works.

Personally what i think Zos should have done, and still could do, is make areas of each zone veteran level adds and wb etc. They could also make it so upon entering a delv (both small and public ones) one chooses to enter normal or vet.
.

FierceSam

Jeremy wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Which does mean you have to cater for those with the least experience and ability.

You have to accept that once you can count to 10 and do your ABC, Kindergarten isn’t going to be a challenge. You can’t unlearn your skills just because you want to go finger painting again, fun though finger painting is.

You want a serious challenge? You aren’t going to find it in overland questing. If overland questing was as hard as, say, FG1, almost no one would do it. The same percentage as solo FG1. And I would assume that’s nowhere near the level of difficulty players asking for ‘vet overland’ would like it to be.

vesselwiththepestle

FierceSam wrote: »

Which does mean you have to cater for those with the least experience and ability.

No, that is only one solution and it is wrong, because by catering only for the least experience and able players the overland content is NOT for all players, because it would be BORING for more experienced and able players.

You could for example add 50% overland content for the least experience and able players, 40% for the mid-tier players and 10% for the top-tier players so everyone gets to experience engaging gameplay during questing.

Another way would be to make higher difficulties in overland content optional. There are already several solutions existing in the game to do so, like different zones for normal and veteran content or some debuff similar to Battle Spirit in Cyrodiil which could be turned on and off as the player wishes.

Also in Dungeons you get actually a huge group finder buff if you are low level. ZOS could change how battle scaling works and by increasing the difficulty in overland content, they could add a similar buff in overland content for low level characters, too.

purple-magicb16_ESO

There's lots of hard content in ESO. Move away from overland and give dungeons or pvp a try. I guarantee you won't be complaining about how easy this game is then.

Kel

After the fiasco of Zos's server mishaps with the Dragonhold update, does anyone realistically believe Zos could pull off adding different versions of overland content?

And I mean, from a reality perspective...not some wishful thinking, "in a perfect world" scenario.

I don't. I think this would lead to far worse bugs and performance for everyone involved. Not to mention the time, effort, and money that would be needed to pull something like this off, and I just don't see that happening from Zos.

So, player wants and wishes aside, do yourself a favor and look at this from a realistic point of view.

Cerotonin

Take off your gear and remove your champion points. Run generic writ food.

Cążki

Overland is to easy from last 3 years, that which is the end of this game., and also isn't worth to do it. CP are frozen, they dont know what to do with this game.

Dragons spawning same position pffffffffffffffffff , world boses same lcoations, pffffffffffffff, thye are all fine when you do it for first time ant it wil be last due the fact you dont have any interest to kill them one time events , nothing worth for to do it, ESPECIALY WHEN YOU ARE GEARED AND ON END GAME. Cyrodil is stagnant.

Tell me where is overland content for end game players ?
Place where i can go spontaneously meet other people where they fighting some competitive object(boss) ?
Why dragons dosny spawn spontaneously on overland THIS WOULD BE THE BEST ! Why not ?

idk

Contaminate wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Overland is for all players. It has more to do with the story and there are many beginners who do not find it so easy.

Major MMORPGs today have a tiered structure of difficulty with overland being the easiest. Zos follows this design as it offers content at varied difficulty to meet everyone's desire for difficulty and does not make the open world challenging to a point it pushes new players away from the game as they are the future.

Outside of Zos pushing back on the huge DPS power creep we have had over the years I doubt they will do anything to make overland more difficult. Bad business.

That's not what the post I was responding to said. It claimed it was suppose to be for "beginners". So it sounds like you should be directing this post at him/her.

You also don't have to push the difficulty to the point it "pushes new players away". In fact: an optional veteran version of each zone (which is what I"m asking for) shouldn't even affect new players. So I don't understand your argument.

I'm also weary of this notion that adding a little more challenge to the overland would somehow make it so super hard. Currently most things die in literally a second or two. This idea that the overland difficulty can't be increased without alienating mass amounts of players and making everything so very difficult that it becomes tedious and a chore is ridiculous. Because there is a ton of middle ground here between killing something in a nanosecond and then something actually being able to live long enough to threaten you with an attack or two. Why does this forum always seem to deal in extremes one way or the other?

Also: people don't realize that it drives players away just as well when the overland content is so easy it becomes boring. You and your like-minded debatees continuously neglect that and think that no one would ever leave this game due to it being too easy. But trust me, they do (I know many of them). And that's not "good business" either. A lot of casual players like a little bit of challenge too. Not as much as hardcore raiders - I'll own. But they don't like things absurdly easy either.

If it was more about the person you quoted then thx for straightening that out.

As to the issue, those asking for more challenge in open world are wanting more than a little increase. They would ant a noticeable increase.

As for a veteran version, it is not so simple. It means that as few as two players can push the server to create two different instances of the same zone. Older zones are likely to have low pop zones which would create more work for the servers at a time we need less load. Yes, more physical servers help but there is likely a central core that ties everything together that can handle only so much.

Considering every major MMORPG I have played in probably the last decade + ( or more) has had an easy open world without a choice to make it more difficult outside of wearing weaker gear there are likely valid server design issues such as this that keep developers from implementing it. I can think of only one that has done it with instanced questing, but that is a very different scenario and much less server side work.

I’d be content if “Elite” meant more than 500dps against a naked no cp toon. I’d be content if players were rightly punished for ignoring cues to block, cues to interrupt, and standing in stupid. Some of the Elsweyr bosses succeed in that, others (the tutorial dragon and necromancer first boss) are literally impossible to die against even if you try. We need more like the prologue with Sai Sahan, get out of the highly telegraphed AoEs or eat a quarter+ of your HP. It doesn’t have to be a huge jump, just enough to demand more than 5% of a player’s attention.

Considering that 500 dps would still be laughable this would be virtually meaningless so there is no point.

The best option for Zos would be to properly manage this game instead of creating the huge power creep almost every quarter.

I am saying, heavily nerf the players.

jcm2606

FierceSam wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Which does mean you have to cater for those with the least experience and ability.

You have to accept that once you can count to 10 and do your ABC, Kindergarten isn’t going to be a challenge. You can’t unlearn your skills just because you want to go finger painting again, fun though finger painting is.

You want a serious challenge? You aren’t going to find it in overland questing. If overland questing was as hard as, say, FG1, almost no one would do it. The same percentage as solo FG1. And I would assume that’s nowhere near the level of difficulty players asking for ‘vet overland’ would like it to be.

Then release more content that people can comfortably sink hundreds of hours into, without running out of stuff to do in that content, or running out of reasons to run that content (something like Imperial City but for PvE, for instance). Or, release a zone that is specifically for vet players.

This whole "overland is meant to be easy" argument is rendered moot so long as overland makes up at least 2/3's of PvE content as far as average playtime is concerned, before becoming bored of the content. Dungeons, trials, arenas alone will not keep vets satisfied for long, especially not when they're as straight forward as they are nowadays, with mechanics boiling down to "kill before this or do that to not be insta gibbed". Remember the days where vet trials would take months for good groups to perfect? And now it seems most of the work is done before the PTS is even finished.

The better analogy to school would be that K-6 is *** easy, and in 7-12, 2/3's of your electives are also *** easy, with the remaining 1/3 being harder, but straight forward, to the point where it doesn't take long to complete them. Where are we going to find a challenge, that we can actually sink some time into, when the only challenges lose their value very quickly due to just being the same things, over and over and over?

Khenarthi

I don't like hard content when I am just questing to relax after a long day, so I hope the difficulty does not increase for it - if it does, I'll adapt... I adapted through launch Doshia and through the patch where mobs were 2 or 3 times as difficult to fight.

I also agree with the players who say that if increased difficulty comes with increased rewards, there will be players who will try to do it - then fail - then complain...

Personally if instances can be split and I can quest with the other potatoes, it'll be fine by me.

DaveMoeDee

FierceSam wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

i like hard content.

its why i like progging trials. if its too easy it feels like grinding. and overland...

why can a lvl 10 easily do overland in craglorn?
why is a mighty deaedroth helpless against a player with broken gear and no weapon?

ok the alliance part of one tamriel was good. but the overland is so easy now its just...

i know this is a very old point... but can we make the regons scale to player level? a minimum of lets say 50 for craglorn, and then scales with the player from that point.

also bonus xp for those in that level margin? this would make questing alot more efficient to level with.

because right now, its just boring.

Overland is for beginners, if they make it harder imagine what will happen to level 3 new players with no cp. Stop being so selfish.

Overland needs to be for all players. Not just "beginners" (though I know many beginners who find it too easy as well).

Which does mean you have to cater for those with the least experience and ability.

You have to accept that once you can count to 10 and do your ABC, Kindergarten isn’t going to be a challenge. You can’t unlearn your skills just because you want to go finger painting again, fun though finger painting is.

You want a serious challenge? You aren’t going to find it in overland questing. If overland questing was as hard as, say, FG1, almost no one would do it. The same percentage as solo FG1. And I would assume that’s nowhere near the level of difficulty players asking for ‘vet overland’ would like it to be.

What does challenge have to do with it? Overland is about finishing quests as part of the story. They make it easy because there are a lot of people who suck at combat that enjoy the lore in the game.

ThePhantomThorn

alot of people are still saying 'Well some people like it easy'

Well...

easy zones and harder zones.

craglorn = hard.

glenumbra = easy.

then everyone would be happy.

compromise.

zShepplin

The amount of time and resources that would be required to #Make Overland Great Again outweigh any possible benefits, especially when you have the ability to fine tune your playing experience by removing CP and/or using non-meta sets currently at your disposal. No it's not a great solution, but it is far more reasonable than asking for an entirely separate set of circumstances for overland content when the developers have been unable to balance PvE independently from PvP by letting abilities behave differently based on content.

WoW came out with scaling overland content near the end of their previous expansion, Legion, and it was a disaster. It was universally despised because it did the exact thing some people here are asking for. It turned what should have been a quick jaunt into the overland to do dailies or farm materials into a slog fest, so much so that people quickly figured out the best way around the scaling was to remove certain items so that the scaling was fooled into thinking the player was less powerful.

There is merit to wanting a challenging overland experience. As a newer player that recently just had the pleasure of experiencing the leveling process for the first time, I can say that I have not been this captivated with a game of any sort since the launch of Vanilla WoW back in 2004, or my first play through Morrowind in 2002. Those two games changed my life in terms of the possibility of what gaming could be to me, but the problem is that when you share this open space with so many different people, people with vastly different needs, wants, interests, desires, goals, ect., no single solution is going to appease them all. Players are quick with their list of demands without seeing the big picture, often times not considering the scale of the changes, who it might effect, to what magnitude these people experience this change, and what is given up to make these accommodations.